[opensuse] We Lost One! :(
My father-in-law's wife (my mother-in-law passed away some years ago) recently had me get her a new computer. She had a six-year-old system running expee that was ready to visit the recycle center. I got her a new Dell system with freeDOS and promptly loaded openSUSE 10.3. Her only requirements were word processing, email (AOL) and eBay. So I get her the system and eventually configure it for AOL mail using Thunderbird. Although I had some initial problems setting up her system at their house - she uses Wireless to connect to the cable modem from another room - it seemed to work. However, we kept running into issues. The wifi (Linksys running ndiswrapper) will continually drop. They have Cox cable, who will NOT support Linux configuration. Also, her AOL mail will continually fail to pull all mail through thunderbird. (If this is related to the wifi dropping, I don't know.) Finally, after two months, I'm giving up. I'm going to install Vista on her system and pass her off to someone else who will support her. (She can use my laptop's copy of Vista Business, since I wiped it off over a year ago.) It is unfortunate that such a nice system like openSUSE will fall to a simple thing like not having a good solid network driver or good network interface. (I have intel drivers in my laptops and rarely have issues, while KNetwork manager is okay, but not very user-friendly.) I hope all of you out there can take a moment and request linux support from a vendor you know doesn't support them currently. I have written Cox a letter encouraging them to begin supporting Linux like my DSL provider does. -- kai www.filesite.org || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Il giorno dom, 21/09/2008 alle 21.32 -0700, Kai Ponte ha scritto:
My father-in-law's wife (my mother-in-law passed away some years ago) recently had me get her a new computer. She had a six-year-old system running expee that was ready to visit the recycle center.
I got her a new Dell system with freeDOS and promptly loaded openSUSE 10.3. Her only requirements were word processing, email (AOL) and eBay.
So I get her the system and eventually configure it for AOL mail using Thunderbird.
Although I had some initial problems setting up her system at their house - she uses Wireless to connect to the cable modem from another room - it seemed to work.
However, we kept running into issues. The wifi (Linksys running ndiswrapper) will continually drop. They have Cox cable, who will NOT support Linux configuration. Also, her AOL mail will continually fail to pull all mail through thunderbird. (If this is related to the wifi dropping, I don't know.)
Finally, after two months, I'm giving up. I'm going to install Vista on her system and pass her off to someone else who will support her. (She can use my laptop's copy of Vista Business, since I wiped it off over a year ago.)
It is unfortunate that such a nice system like openSUSE will fall to a simple thing like not having a good solid network driver or good network interface. (I have intel drivers in my laptops and rarely have issues, while KNetwork manager is okay, but not very user-friendly.)
I hope all of you out there can take a moment and request linux support from a vendor you know doesn't support them currently. I have written Cox a letter encouraging them to begin supporting Linux like my DSL provider does.
Linux is not yet perfect for desktop use, that is true. I had a lot of problems a couple of weeks ago, trying to install OpenSuse 11 on a (not too) old Dell PC (PIII/700, 512MB RAM), that was unsuccessful both with a Net Install and with a DVD. Then I tried to install on it a Fedora 9, and everything was OK at the first install. I am no Linux expert, but I am neither a newbie (although more experienced with Debian and Ubuntu). Still I remember when I purchased my first Linux distro box (Suse 7! A long time ago...), and could install on a dual-boot PC without problems. I do not know what is wrong with OpenSuse 11, (maybe the kernel version?), but decided to give up, for the time being, and still hope to be able to install next release... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 21 September 2008 23:44, vince wrote:
Linux is not yet perfect for desktop use, that is true. That is absolute nonsense.
-- Kind regards, M Harris <>< -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, September 23, 2008 22:37, M Harris wrote:
On Sunday 21 September 2008 23:44, vince wrote:
Linux is not yet perfect for desktop use, that is true. That is absolute nonsense.
It's not nonsense. Haven't you ever heard about "all hardware sucks, all software sucks"? As long as any software is made for humans, by humans, it will never be perfect. Learn to live with it, and meanwhile use the software that annoys you the least. In my case, and probably also in the case of most of the subscribers on this mailing list, the least annoying operating system is Linux. That being said, Windows, MacOS, *BSD, Solaris and all others are not yet perfect for desktop use either. But at least Linux supports more devices out of the box without any additional installation or configuration than Windows does. -- Amedee -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
That being said, Windows, MacOS, *BSD, Solaris and all others are not yet perfect for desktop use either. But at least Linux supports more devices out of the box without any additional installation or configuration than Windows does.
That is simply not true! Most hardware manufacturers produce drivers for Windows first and then for MacOS. The major problem with Linux on the desktop has been the lack of drivers for a multitude of popular devices! People struggle to get their devices to work with Linux. Only the more knowledgeable users pass this barrier. In the absence of immediate results, the others put Linux aside. This, of course, does not detract from the many qualities that characterize Linux, freedom being on top. But you have to be faithful to truth! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Miguel Medalha <miguelmedalha@sapo.pt> wrote:
That being said, Windows, MacOS, *BSD, Solaris and all others are not yet perfect for desktop use either. But at least Linux supports more devices out of the box without any additional installation or configuration than Windows does.
That is simply not true! Most hardware manufacturers produce drivers for Windows first and then for MacOS.
The key phrase is "out of the box". Microsoft has very limited driver support out of the Microsoft box. Linux has very good driver support out of the SUSE box. Greg -- Greg Freemyer Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer First 99 Days Litigation White Paper - http://www.norcrossgroup.com/forms/whitepapers/99%20Days%20whitepaper.pdf The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, September 24, 2008 00:38, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Miguel Medalha <miguelmedalha@sapo.pt> wrote:
That being said, Windows, MacOS, *BSD, Solaris and all others are not yet perfect for desktop use either. But at least Linux supports more devices out of the box without any additional installation or configuration than Windows does.
That is simply not true! Most hardware manufacturers produce drivers for Windows first and then for MacOS.
The key phrase is "out of the box". Microsoft has very limited driver support out of the Microsoft box.
Exactly. Just try to install any desktop pc with a retail (not OEM!) copy of Windows, and without the drivers cd! Now do the same with a retail copy of Suse. Or any other Linux distro that comes in a retail box.
Linux has very good driver support out of the SUSE box.
Because all drivers are (or should be) in the kernel tree, this goes for all distributions that use a recent kernel. Except for binary drivers like nvidia, but name me one recent&popular distro that doesn't have provisions for binary drivers. -- Amedee -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/9/23 M Harris <harrismh777@earthlink.net>:
On Sunday 21 September 2008 23:44, vince wrote:
Linux is not yet perfect for desktop use, that is true. That is absolute nonsense.
Are you arguing that Linux is _perfect_ for desktop use? I need to run Solidworks on my desktop, to be interoperable with people who care more about functional software than about any dream of open code. Any system that cannot run Solidworks is not perfect for me or any other engineer in my position. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 01:13 +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
2008/9/23 M Harris <harrismh777@earthlink.net>:
On Sunday 21 September 2008 23:44, vince wrote:
Linux is not yet perfect for desktop use, that is true. That is absolute nonsense.
Are you arguing that Linux is _perfect_ for desktop use? I need to run Solidworks on my desktop, to be interoperable with people who care more about functional software than about any dream of open code. Any system that cannot run Solidworks is not perfect for me or any other engineer in my position.
So your question is: Is Linux perfect at running applications that were not written for it. I think your issue is not with Linux, but with Solidworks. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Kapellgränd 7 P.O. Box 4205 SE-102 65 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 8-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 And remember: It is RSofT and there is always something under construction. It is like talking about large city with all constructions finished. Not impossible, but very unlikely. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/9/24 Roger Oberholtzer <roger@opq.se>:
Are you arguing that Linux is _perfect_ for desktop use? I need to run Solidworks on my desktop, to be interoperable with people who care more about functional software than about any dream of open code. Any system that cannot run Solidworks is not perfect for me or any other engineer in my position.
So your question is: Is Linux perfect at running applications that were not written for it.
I will remind you that Linux is an operating system (or more pedantically, a kernel from which an OS can be built upon): without software it does nothing. An OS without applications is useless to me. So until there are engineering applications for Linux, it cannot be perfect for me.
I think your issue is not with Linux, but with Solidworks.
That is a good point and it is open to debate. I declare that Linux is not perfect because it cannot run Solidworks, which I need for work. However, my activity is centered on the opposite front: I have written to Solidworks and it's distributors inquiring about future versions either having native Linux ports, or being compiled against a stable Wine branch. If you'd like to help me, here is a list of addresses to contact: http://www.solidworks.com/sw/contact-information.htm Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
On Thu, 2008-09-25 at 09:03 +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
2008/9/24 Roger Oberholtzer <roger@opq.se>:
Are you arguing that Linux is _perfect_ for desktop use? I need to run Solidworks on my desktop, to be interoperable with people who care more about functional software than about any dream of open code. Any system that cannot run Solidworks is not perfect for me or any other engineer in my position.
So your question is: Is Linux perfect at running applications that were not written for it.
I will remind you that Linux is an operating system (or more pedantically, a kernel from which an OS can be built upon): without software it does nothing. An OS without applications is useless to me. So until there are engineering applications for Linux, it cannot be perfect for me.
No reminding needed - I know this very well. I used 'Linux' because it was the term used elsewhere in the thread. But, in this case, I think the kernel (Linux) is, in fact, the primary issue with running foreign (e.g., Windows) apps. The thing that keeps a program/library from running is usually the interface to the system, i.e., the kernel. As an example, the kernel in SCO UnixWare (sorry...) had what was referred to as 'personalities'. Applications could have been compiled for different kernel ABIs. The application loader would detect this and the kernel would be told to present the appropriate ABI. The SVR5 kernel has a surprisingly large number of personalities that let it run older applications compiled when the kernel ABI was different. I remember running an X server compiled for Kodak's SVR4 on UnixWare SVR5.4. Worked great. When I left UnixWare, they were even making a Linux personality, so the kernel could run Linux or SVR5.4 binaries at the same time. It was from SCO's earlier "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" phase. Too bad that did not last. In addition, 'Linux' and 'GNU Linux' are a commonly used term used to refer generally to all distributions. And you issue is common to all distributions. I wish you luck in getting support! -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Kapellgränd 7 P.O. Box 4205 SE-102 65 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 8-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 And remember: It is RSofT and there is always something under construction. It is like talking about large city with all constructions finished. Not impossible, but very unlikely. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/9/25 Roger Oberholtzer <roger@opq.se>:
I wish you luck in getting support!
Luck won't help, but community involvement would. Likewise, if anyone needs any software that is not available for Linux, then write to the manufacturer and request it. Then let me know, and I will write to the manufacturer as well. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü N�����r��y隊Z)z{.�ﮞ˛���m�)z{.��+�Z+i�b�*'jW(�f�vǦj)h���Ǿ��i����� ��
Dotan Cohen wrote:
2008/9/25 Roger Oberholtzer <roger@opq.se>:
I wish you luck in getting support!
Luck won't help, but community involvement would. Likewise, if anyone needs any software that is not available for Linux, then write to the manufacturer and request it. Then let me know, and I will write to the manufacturer as well.
I admire your zeal but I'm curious as to how many responses you get from manufacturers even acknowledging your mail. Dassault Systèmes (Solidworks) was one such company that I've written an email to (many moons ago) regarding a linux port with no response whatsoever. -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 25 September 2008 05:33:41 pm Tony Alfrey wrote:
Dotan Cohen wrote:
2008/9/25 Roger Oberholtzer <roger@opq.se>:
I wish you luck in getting support!
Luck won't help, but community involvement would. Likewise, if anyone needs any software that is not available for Linux, then write to the manufacturer and request it. Then let me know, and I will write to the manufacturer as well.
I admire your zeal but I'm curious as to how many responses you get from manufacturers even acknowledging your mail. Dassault Systèmes (Solidworks) was one such company that I've written an email to (many moons ago) regarding a linux port with no response whatsoever.
I do this kind of thing often. No idea how well it works. However, on the Solidworks front - one of my buddies happens to be a VP of sales there. I called him this evening and had a chat. I explained to him that it might be beneficial for them to introduce a Linux version for those people not on Windows. He said he'd pass it by the board, but no promises. Worth a shot. :) -- kai www.filesite.org || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kai Ponte wrote: <snip>
I do this kind of thing often. No idea how well it works.
However, on the Solidworks front - one of my buddies happens to be a VP of sales there. I called him this evening and had a chat. I explained to him that it might be beneficial for them to introduce a Linux version for those people not on Windows.
He said he'd pass it by the board, but no promises.
Worth a shot. :)
It would be nice! -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Tony Alfrey wrote:
Kai Ponte wrote: <snip>
I do this kind of thing often. No idea how well it works.
However, on the Solidworks front - one of my buddies happens to be a VP of sales there. I called him this evening and had a chat. I explained to him that it might be beneficial for them to introduce a Linux version for those people not on Windows. He said he'd pass it by the board, but no promises.
Worth a shot. :)
It would be nice!
You can also send them our way, we have been very successful lately in getting more ISVs to come to the SUSE Linux platform. http://www.novell.com/linux/isv/ Thanks, Darren -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/9/26 Kai Ponte <kai@perfectreign.com>:
I do this kind of thing often. No idea how well it works.
However, on the Solidworks front - one of my buddies happens to be a VP of sales there. I called him this evening and had a chat. I explained to him that it might be beneficial for them to introduce a Linux version for those people not on Windows.
He said he'd pass it by the board, but no promises.
Worth a shot. :)
Next time you see him, let him know that a native Linux port would be nice, but that I for one would settle for official Wine support. That is exactly the reason that Wine was released as 1.0 instead of continuing on in beta forever: so that there would be a stable branch to which software houses could compile their applications. I don't even care if I have to buy a new license for Linux / Wine support. I just care that it works. Let him know, seriously. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
2008/9/26 Tony Alfrey <tonyalfrey@earthlink.net>:
Luck won't help, but community involvement would. Likewise, if anyone needs any software that is not available for Linux, then write to the manufacturer and request it. Then let me know, and I will write to the manufacturer as well.
I admire your zeal but I'm curious as to how many responses you get from manufacturers even acknowledging your mail. Dassault Systèmes (Solidworks) was one such company that I've written an email to (many moons ago) regarding a linux port with no response whatsoever.
I do get quite a few responses, I'd say only about 1 in 10 do not respond. In fact, the response is usually "yes, we are waiting for more interest in Linux before investing in a Linux port". That's why I insist that the time has come to be vocal. Solidworks the company has not answered me, but my local distributor has. He uses Ubuntu at home! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü N�����r��y隊Z)z{.�ﮞ˛���m�)z{.��+�Z+i�b�*'jW(�f�vǦj)h���Ǿ��i����� ��
M Harris wrote:
On Sunday 21 September 2008 23:44, vince wrote:
Linux is not yet perfect for desktop use, that is true.
That is absolute nonsense.
I'll second, third, and take it to infinity. For 10 years, I have been a running full blown desktop Linux. And 8 of these years, running my business solely from Linux The only things I need Windows (or Mac) for is my tax software and my piano tuning software - that's it !!!!!! -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 dahechler@charter.net www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com -- Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, September 24, 2008 00:52, Duaine & Laura Hechler wrote:
M Harris wrote:
On Sunday 21 September 2008 23:44, vince wrote:
Linux is not yet perfect for desktop use, that is true.
That is absolute nonsense.
I'll second, third, and take it to infinity.
For 10 years, I have been a running full blown desktop Linux.
And 8 of these years, running my business solely from Linux
The only things I need Windows (or Mac) for is my tax software and my piano tuning software - that's it !!!!!!
So actually you are saying that Linux is not yet perfect, not even for your use. It could only reach your standard of perfection when you are able to run your tax software and your piano tuning software on it. The key word here is "perfect". While I can agree on an asymptotic approximation of the concept of total perfection (omega point or whatever you want to call it) but that is still very far from the current state of Linux, that I call "adequate" (or "good enough"). My apologies for being a dictionary worm, but choosing the right words can be very important, especially in written communication where you loose all nonverbal modes of communication. -- Amedee -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/9/24 Amedee Van Gasse <amedee@amedee.be>:
The only things I need Windows (or Mac) for is my tax software and my piano tuning software - that's it !!!!!!
So actually you are saying that Linux is not yet perfect, not even for your use. It could only reach your standard of perfection when you are able to run your tax software and your piano tuning software on it.
The key word here is "perfect". While I can agree on an asymptotic approximation of the concept of total perfection (omega point or whatever you want to call it) but that is still very far from the current state of Linux, that I call "adequate" (or "good enough").
My apologies for being a dictionary worm, but choosing the right words can be very important, especially in written communication where you loose all nonverbal modes of communication.
My thoughts exactly. What are the names of the Tax software and piano tuning software? Have you written to the authors and let them know that there is interest in running their software in Linux? -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
<snip>
My thoughts exactly.
What are the names of the Tax software TaxAct http://www.taxact.com/
Again, Linux is not popular enough ?
and piano tuning software? Reyburn Cybertuner http://www.reyburn.com/
The gentlemen that wrote Cybertuner actually really likes Linux and would probably offer a version - except - that, from talking to him a while back, Linux is lacking some sort of "system" hook (API?) to talk to something in the hardware that Windows & Mac have. The other consideration is that, Linux is not popular enough to spend the development time on. I even offered to be a beta tester Regards, Duaine -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 dahechler@charter.net www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com -- Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/9/24 Duaine & Laura Hechler <dahechler@charter.net>:
<snip>
My thoughts exactly.
What are the names of the Tax software TaxAct http://www.taxact.com/
Again, Linux is not popular enough ?
and piano tuning software? Reyburn Cybertuner http://www.reyburn.com/
The gentlemen that wrote Cybertuner actually really likes Linux and would probably offer a version - except - that, from talking to him a while back, Linux is lacking some sort of "system" hook (API?) to talk to something in the hardware that Windows & Mac have. The other consideration is that, Linux is not popular enough to spend the development time on.
I even offered to be a beta tester
Thanks, I will write to both of them. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
Duaine & Laura Hechler:
Reyburn Cybertuner http://www.reyburn.com/
The gentlemen that wrote Cybertuner actually really likes Linux and would probably offer a version - except - that, from talking to him a while back, Linux is lacking some sort of "system" hook (API?) to talk to something in the hardware that Windows & Mac have. The
wrt sound hardware: Quite unlikely. Maybe the cybertune developers had a bit of a hard time fighting their way through the balkanized linux sound api jungle? All too understandable, too. But there is hope: For instance Lennart Poettering, the Pulseaudio guy, just published a pretty good overview on http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/guide-to-sound-apis which should help audio developers to make a good first decision. Some of the api's, especially ALSA, are awesome. In every sense of the word. As usual: The main barrier to wider adoption (including windows people who consider linux ports) is good documentation. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Amedee Van Gasse wrote:
On Wed, September 24, 2008 00:52, Duaine & Laura Hechler wrote:
M Harris wrote:
On Sunday 21 September 2008 23:44, vince wrote:
Linux is not yet perfect for desktop use, that is true.
That is absolute nonsense.
I'll second, third, and take it to infinity.
For 10 years, I have been a running full blown desktop Linux.
And 8 of these years, running my business solely from Linux
The only things I need Windows (or Mac) for is my tax software and my piano tuning software - that's it !!!!!!
So actually you are saying that Linux is not yet perfect, not even for your use. It could only reach your standard of perfection when you are able to run your tax software and your piano tuning software on it.
The key word here is "perfect". While I can agree on an asymptotic approximation of the concept of total perfection (omega point or whatever you want to call it) but that is still very far from the current state of Linux, that I call "adequate" (or "good enough").
My apologies for being a dictionary worm, but choosing the right words can be very important, especially in written communication where you loose all nonverbal modes of communication.
Are you claiming Windows is "perfect", given all the problems with it? -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, September 24, 2008 13:23, James Knott wrote:
Are you claiming Windows is "perfect", given all the problems with it?
Absolutely not, on the contrary!!! By the way, in this thread you are the first to suggest that Windows is "perfecter" than Linux, although others claimed this about Mac. But Mac is not an OS, it is OS+box. That's not the same. My opinion is: "All Hardware Sucks, All Software Sucks"(tm) (But Some Suck More Than Others) You should read "Murphy's Computer Law" by Joachim Graf ISBN 978-0285632288 A bit outdated (from 99) but still relevant! -- Amedee -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 24 September 2008 07:49:02 am Amedee Van Gasse wrote:
On Wed, September 24, 2008 13:23, James Knott wrote:
Are you claiming Windows is "perfect", given all the problems with it?
Absolutely not, on the contrary!!!
By the way, in this thread you are the first to suggest that Windows is "perfecter" than Linux, although others claimed this about Mac. But Mac is not an OS, it is OS+box. That's not the same.
My opinion is: "All Hardware Sucks, All Software Sucks"(tm) (But Some Suck More Than Others)
You should read "Murphy's Computer Law" by Joachim Graf ISBN 978-0285632288 A bit outdated (from 99) but still relevant!
One of my old sigs was, "linux - it sucks less than the others" -- kai www.filesite.org || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Amedee Van Gasse wrote:
On Wed, September 24, 2008 13:23, James Knott wrote:
Are you claiming Windows is "perfect", given all the problems with it?
Absolutely not, on the contrary!!!
By the way, in this thread you are the first to suggest that Windows is "perfecter" than Linux
????? When did I ever suggest that? I consider Windows to be very inferior in many ways. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 24 September 2008 09:06:59 am James Knott wrote:
Amedee Van Gasse wrote:
On Wed, September 24, 2008 13:23, James Knott wrote:
Are you claiming Windows is "perfect", given all the problems with it?
Absolutely not, on the contrary!!!
By the way, in this thread you are the first to suggest that Windows is "perfecter" than Linux
?????
When did I ever suggest that? I consider Windows to be very inferior in many ways.
Slighty OT (sorry, Fred) but I just came back from Starbucks. I saw a guy there with a laptop which had an Ubuntu sticker. I remarked that it was unusual to see a laptop running Linux. He indicated he was running KUbuntu and that the laptop had been wiped from XP. I mentioned that I ran openSUSE and hadn't tried KUbuntu. He said he keeps an openSUSE live CD around for those instances where he's in a computer lab and needs to access the internet. Very cool! :) -- kai www.filesite.org || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kai Ponte wrote:
On Wednesday 24 September 2008 09:06:59 am James Knott wrote:
Amedee Van Gasse wrote:
On Wed, September 24, 2008 13:23, James Knott wrote:
Are you claiming Windows is "perfect", given all the problems with it? Absolutely not, on the contrary!!!
By the way, in this thread you are the first to suggest that Windows is "perfecter" than Linux ?????
When did I ever suggest that? I consider Windows to be very inferior in many ways.
Slighty OT (sorry, Fred) but I just came back from Starbucks.
I saw a guy there with a laptop which had an Ubuntu sticker.
I remarked that it was unusual to see a laptop running Linux. He indicated he was running KUbuntu and that the laptop had been wiped from XP.
I mentioned that I ran openSUSE and hadn't tried KUbuntu. He said he keeps an openSUSE live CD around for those instances where he's in a computer lab and needs to access the internet.
Very cool!
:)
I was recently doing some work at a University of Toronto student's residence. When I asked the security guard to lock up after I was done, we got talking about computers and he mentioned he used Linux. I then showed him my Asus Eee PC. Also, while my ThinkPad came with XP I left it on and repartitioned to make room for Linux. I have also placed a domed "Tux" sticker on it. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kai Ponte:
I mentioned that I ran openSUSE and hadn't tried KUbuntu. He said he keeps an openSUSE live CD around for those instances where he's in a computer lab and needs to access the internet.
Very cool!
With all due respect to the disc jockey faction: Having to change OS distribution in order to have net access is not exactly very cool. What's with KUbuntu? Are they serious? Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Wolfgang Woehl wrote:
Kai Ponte:
I mentioned that I ran openSUSE and hadn't tried KUbuntu. He said he keeps an openSUSE live CD around for those instances where he's in a computer lab and needs to access the internet.
Very cool!
With all due respect to the disc jockey faction: Having to change OS distribution in order to have net access is not exactly very cool.
although...... they may not be doing it solely for net access. They may be doing it so as not to leave a trace as to what they were DOING on the net. CD is ejected from drive, computer rebooted, all trace vanishes.
What's with KUbuntu? Are they serious?
Wolfgang
- -- Steve Reilly http://reillyblog.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFI3ScjUpqfZIdKFyERAnlqAKCN6ed+96Zx0wQyxFgv2c2ZKPznHgCfd5dB cmJ/Eou/D97649B/LMCknBs= =dUIO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/9/26 steve <sfreilly@roadrunner.com>:
although...... they may not be doing it solely for net access. They may be doing it so as not to leave a trace as to what they were DOING on the net. CD is ejected from drive, computer rebooted, all trace vanishes.
I doubt that. In most university computer labs that I've seen, the machines are regularly ghosted. However, network activity is monitored. So the problem is not leaving traces on the computer, but rather who's monitoring the network. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2008-09-26 at 21:20 +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
2008/9/26 steve <sfreilly@roadrunner.com>:
although...... they may not be doing it solely for net access. They may be doing it so as not to leave a trace as to what they were DOING on the net. CD is ejected from drive, computer rebooted, all trace vanishes.
I doubt that. In most university computer labs that I've seen, the machines are regularly ghosted. However, network activity is monitored. So the problem is not leaving traces on the computer, but rather who's monitoring the network.
Part of the network activity can be encrypted. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkjdXVkACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VdqgCfUHBP6VMPcEsv073ECJe8I0Cm EhwAoIWmAPnktFTOgH9rw6pA8TRDSxt4 =8KgF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, September 24, 2008 18:06, James Knott wrote:
Amedee Van Gasse wrote:
On Wed, September 24, 2008 13:23, James Knott wrote:
Are you claiming Windows is "perfect", given all the problems with it?
Absolutely not, on the contrary!!!
By the way, in this thread you are the first to suggest that Windows is "perfecter" than Linux
?????
When did I ever suggest that? I consider Windows to be very inferior in many ways.
You didn't suggest it directly, but you brought up the argument by asking the question. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 24 September 2008, Amedee Van Gasse wrote:
"perfecter" Hummmmmmm thats one i have never seen in any dictionaryso far or does this come from some personal compilation of a dictionary
BTW Linux is a darn sight more ready for the desktop than windBloWs will ever be just we lack support form the hardware makers because they all bow to the biggest bullet in this case M$ Corp worst luck . Pete -- SuSE Linux 10.3-Alpha3. (Linux is like a wigwam - no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, September 24, 2008 18:34, peter nikolic wrote:
"perfecter" Hummmmmmm thats one i have never seen in any dictionaryso far or does
On Wednesday 24 September 2008, Amedee Van Gasse wrote: this come from some personal compilation of a dictionary
Yes. Hence the quotes. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Amedee Van Gasse:
My opinion is: "All Hardware Sucks, All Software Sucks"(tm) (But Some Suck More Than Others)
True. Stuff sucks to an extent that leaves me speechless on a regular basis. Though when you say "As long as software is made for humans, by humans, it will never be perfect" I'd like to think that every now and then brilliance prevails. We will have wicked gui's and data access models in 2028. I know, I've been there, even brought a copy back. Doesn't look or act one bit like KDE4. It's a shame it was not GPL'ed, hence We Can't Share It (tm) ;) Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Wolfgang Woehl schreef:
Amedee Van Gasse:
My opinion is: "All Hardware Sucks, All Software Sucks"(tm) (But Some Suck More Than Others)
True. Stuff sucks to an extent that leaves me speechless on a regular basis. Though when you say "As long as software is made for humans, by humans, it will never be perfect" I'd like to think that every now and then brilliance prevails. We will have wicked gui's and data access models in 2028. I know, I've been there, even brought a copy back. Doesn't look or act one bit like KDE4. It's a shame it was not GPL'ed, hence We Can't Share It (tm) ;)
Wolfgang
Wolfgang, I love the way you think. Must be something with your name... ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kai Ponte schrieb:
[...]
However, we kept running into issues. The wifi (Linksys running ndiswrapper) will continually drop.
Never use ndiswrapper, if there is any chance to get wifi running with a real linux driver. ndiswrapper is no solution, it is a workaround, which may help, if nothing else works. Best is, you check your hardware for compatibility before you buy.
[...]
Herbert -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-09-22 at 10:30 +0200, Herbert Graeber wrote:
However, we kept running into issues. The wifi (Linksys running ndiswrapper) will continually drop.
Never use ndiswrapper, if there is any chance to get wifi running with a real linux driver. ndiswrapper is no solution, it is a workaround, which may help, if nothing else works. Best is, you check your hardware for compatibility before you buy.
Exactly. When shopping, you have to ensure that everything works with linux, and that is not always easy to find out before you buy :-( - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkjXgA4ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VJ7gCfSxDcmS47GaWkoweVkvYATL5d qAoAnjz1p4omIATVUIOWCdsj+zYAHrS0 =lfCS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. skrev:
The Monday 2008-09-22 at 10:30 +0200, Herbert Graeber wrote:
However, we kept running into issues. The wifi (Linksys running ndiswrapper) will continually drop.
Never use ndiswrapper, if there is any chance to get wifi running with a real linux driver. ndiswrapper is no solution, it is a workaround, which may help, if nothing else works. Best is, you check your hardware for compatibility before you buy.
Exactly. When shopping, you have to ensure that everything works with linux, and that is not always easy to find out before you buy :-(
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
A similar experience of mine...this school's got a funny CISCO (!) firewall. That works fast and fine with winboxes behind it. But with Linux boxes behind it, it comes to a crawl.. Support from the Cisco dealer: "Eh, we don't support Linux..., but I think it's a known issue..." Clearly it's an implementation bug in the CISCO box, no matter what you do to the Linux box (IP6 on/off etc), it does make no difference. Then...you setup another firewall - and Linux (and windows) flies both. Am I going to recommend/buy CISCO gear next time, I'll give you one guess at that one :-) -- ------------------------------ Med venlig hilsen/Best regards Verner Kjærsgaard www.os-academy.dk Novell Certified Linux Professional 10035701 ------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-09-22 at 14:38 +0200, Verner Kjærsgaard wrote:
Exactly. When shopping, you have to ensure that everything works with linux, and that is not always easy to find out before you buy :-(
A similar experience of mine...this school's got a funny CISCO (!) firewall. That works fast and fine with winboxes behind it. But with Linux boxes behind it, it comes to a crawl..
Support from the Cisco dealer: "Eh, we don't support Linux..., but I think it's a known issue..."
My guess is that if you go to Cisco directly, they'll fire that dealer. Cisco can not depend on a single OS, they have to cater for them all. One thing is what software they use for maintenance of their boxes etc, another is that their network does not work with different operating systems. Tell the datacenters the world around that Cisco's hardware will not work with datacenters using anything else different than windows, and they'll be out of business soon. What about Unix, for instance? That's an "official", "payware", system.
Clearly it's an implementation bug in the CISCO box, no matter what you do to the Linux box (IP6 on/off etc), it does make no difference. Then...you setup another firewall - and Linux (and windows) flies both.
If it is a know issue, you'll probably find info in google.
Am I going to recommend/buy CISCO gear next time, I'll give you one guess at that one :-)
:-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkjXquEACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U5ywCfdcDce3ajcjRi0UYUtLq1yFZJ SFwAnRpWdkrgQK3lz6CVFQn494yWqUOv =rHOt -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 16:25 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The Monday 2008-09-22 at 14:38 +0200, Verner Kjærsgaard wrote:
Exactly. When shopping, you have to ensure that everything works with linux, and that is not always easy to find out before you buy :-(
Well, the grass is not always greener on the other side: I have a new iMac that I want to work with a Netgear wireless access point. It is really screwy. The various APs zip in and out of the list of available ones, and connecting to mine works very seldom. The most I can find in the /var/log files (MAC OS-X is BSD, so some things are in a familiar place) is error -9 when connecting. Gee, talk about useful error messages. I have actually resorted to a cable to the iMac. OTOH, openSUSE 10.3 on my Sony laptop works great. Connects every time. Even when sitting on a table next to the iMac that is not playing ball with the same AP. An XP box also connects fine. Even though that one sometimes looses the connection. I suspect that MS' OSs loose connections just as often as Linux. But they are pragmatic and simply reconnect silently. Perhaps Linux intends to as well, but all is not working as expected. I do not know. But I do know that no OS has wireless down to an art. MAC OS-X surprised me as they control the computer hardware that the OS controls. They have one less variable to deal with in the puzzle. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Kapellgränd 7 P.O. Box 4205 SE-102 65 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 8-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 And remember: It is RSofT and there is always something under construction. It is like talking about large city with all constructions finished. Not impossible, but very unlikely. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-09-22 at 16:40 +0200, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 16:25 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Exactly. When shopping, you have to ensure that everything works with linux, and that is not always easy to find out before you buy :-(
Well, the grass is not always greener on the other side:
I have a new iMac that I want to work with a Netgear wireless access
:-) I'm not sure that Macs are at "the other side", but at some island on the river ;-p - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkjY3SwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WDfgCfUqOm9Tyb7bs3N9bhLp6nvXiY h0kAmQEOZO8lvxrqBS34lLxqhCWNV4C9 =JHCf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@gmail.com> To: "OS-en" <opensuse@opensuse.org> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [opensuse] We Lost One! :(
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The Monday 2008-09-22 at 16:40 +0200, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 16:25 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Exactly. When shopping, you have to ensure that everything works with linux, and that is not always easy to find out before you buy :-(
Well, the grass is not always greener on the other side:
I have a new iMac that I want to work with a Netgear wireless access
:-)
I'm not sure that Macs are at "the other side", but at some island on the river ;-p
nice :) -- Brian K. White brian@aljex.com http://www.myspace.com/KEYofR +++++[>+++[>+++++>+++++++<<-]<-]>>+.>.+++++.+++++++.-.[>+<---]>++. filePro BBx Linux SCO FreeBSD #callahans Satriani Filk! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Brian K. White wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@gmail.com> To: "OS-en" <opensuse@opensuse.org> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [opensuse] We Lost One! :(
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The Monday 2008-09-22 at 16:40 +0200, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 16:25 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Exactly. When shopping, you have to ensure that everything works with linux, and that is not always easy to find out before you buy :-( Well, the grass is not always greener on the other side:
I have a new iMac that I want to work with a Netgear wireless access :-)
I'm not sure that Macs are at "the other side", but at some island on the river ;-p
nice :)
While I don't want you to think I'm some kinda troll (I use a Mac and two partitions of linux) I will submit that I think that a Mac is what linux + desktop-of-your-choice could be, were it not for the need to support a bunch of hardware for which there are no drivers. If SuSE + KDE + QT + kernel kids could stick to one hardware platform (and even choose what it would be), it *would* be the universal choice for OS. The Mac is, in essence, OS + box. -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 17:21 -0700, Tony Alfrey wrote:
While I don't want you to think I'm some kinda troll (I use a Mac and two partitions of linux) I will submit that I think that a Mac is what linux + desktop-of-your-choice could be, were it not for the need to support a bunch of hardware for which there are no drivers. If SuSE + KDE + QT + kernel kids could stick to one hardware platform (and even choose what it would be), it *would* be the universal choice for OS. The Mac is, in essence, OS + box.
Yep. But, even with a minimal hardware support list, MAC OS still has hardware support issues. Like the odd wireless behavior. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Kapellgränd 7 P.O. Box 4205 SE-102 65 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 8-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 And remember: It is RSofT and there is always something under construction. It is like talking about large city with all constructions finished. Not impossible, but very unlikely. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 17:21 -0700, Tony Alfrey wrote:
While I don't want you to think I'm some kinda troll (I use a Mac and two partitions of linux) I will submit that I think that a Mac is what linux + desktop-of-your-choice could be, were it not for the need to support a bunch of hardware for which there are no drivers. If SuSE + KDE + QT + kernel kids could stick to one hardware platform (and even choose what it would be), it *would* be the universal choice for OS. The Mac is, in essence, OS + box.
Yep. But, even with a minimal hardware support list, MAC OS still has hardware support issues. Like the odd wireless behavior.
I will try to watch for this and see if I find it on my box. I have a few, but not many ;-) friends with windoze laptops that I can compare for wireless access. -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 13:22 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The Monday 2008-09-22 at 10:30 +0200, Herbert Graeber wrote:
However, we kept running into issues. The wifi (Linksys running ndiswrapper) will continually drop.
Never use ndiswrapper, if there is any chance to get wifi running with a real linux driver. ndiswrapper is no solution, it is a workaround, which may help, if nothing else works. Best is, you check your hardware for compatibility before you buy.
Exactly. When shopping, you have to ensure that everything works with linux, and that is not always easy to find out before you buy :-(
Which is why I tell the person who's answering my questions about such and such, that if it doesn't work in Linux, it gets returned, because I don't use Windows (unless I have to). And if they aren't OK with that, I don't buy it (from them). It's not only the hardware Vendors but the resalers that we need to be working on. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 22 September 2008 01:30:03 am Herbert Graeber wrote:
Kai Ponte schrieb:
[...]
However, we kept running into issues. The wifi (Linksys running ndiswrapper) will continually drop.
Never use ndiswrapper, if there is any chance to get wifi running with a real linux driver. ndiswrapper is no solution, it is a workaround, which may help, if nothing else works. Best is, you check your hardware for compatibility before you buy.
Yes, I'd heard this many times. However, there does not seem to be a Linux-native PCI Wireless card that I can purchase (I asked on the list some months ago.) within any reason here in California. -- kai www.filesite.org || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 22. September 2008 21:44:08 schrieb Kai Ponte:
On Monday 22 September 2008 01:30:03 am Herbert Graeber wrote:
Kai Ponte schrieb:
[...]
However, we kept running into issues. The wifi (Linksys running ndiswrapper) will continually drop.
Never use ndiswrapper, if there is any chance to get wifi running with a real linux driver. ndiswrapper is no solution, it is a workaround, which may help, if nothing else works. Best is, you check your hardware for compatibility before you buy.
Yes, I'd heard this many times.
However, there does not seem to be a Linux-native PCI Wireless card that I can purchase (I asked on the list some months ago.) within any reason here in California.
Airlink101 AWLH4130. Available at Frys in Concord. -- Gruß Andreas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 22 September 2008 10:23:06 pm Andreas wrote:
However, there does not seem to be a Linux-native PCI Wireless card that I can purchase (I asked on the list some months ago.) within any reason here in California.
Airlink101 AWLH4130. Available at Frys in Concord.
That's the first card I'd bought. The Airlink cards use this RaLink driver set that doesn't play well with openSUSE. I'd prefer one with Intel (as in my laptops) but that doesn't seem to be an option. -- kai www.filesite.org || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 23. September 2008 05:26:15 schrieb Kai Ponte:
On Monday 22 September 2008 10:23:06 pm Andreas wrote:
However, there does not seem to be a Linux-native PCI Wireless card that I can purchase (I asked on the list some months ago.) within any reason here in California.
Airlink101 AWLH4130. Available at Frys in Concord.
That's the first card I'd bought. The Airlink cards use this RaLink driver set that doesn't play well with openSUSE.
Kai, I bought that card for real cheap at last year's Thanksgiving Sale, and although I had to retire the pc I used it in, I am almost certain that I compiled & used the madwifi drivers without any problem.
I'd prefer one with Intel (as in my laptops) but that doesn't seem to be an option.
Sorry, can't help you with that. -- Gruß Andreas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 22 September 2008 12:32:53 am Kai Ponte wrote:
My father-in-law's wife (my mother-in-law passed away some years ago) recently had me get her a new computer. She had a six-year-old system running expee that was ready to visit the recycle center.
I got her a new Dell system with freeDOS and promptly loaded openSUSE 10.3. Her only requirements were word processing, email (AOL) and eBay.
So I get her the system and eventually configure it for AOL mail using Thunderbird.
Although I had some initial problems setting up her system at their house - she uses Wireless to connect to the cable modem from another room - it seemed to work.
However, we kept running into issues. The wifi (Linksys running ndiswrapper) will continually drop. They have Cox cable, who will NOT support Linux configuration. Also, her AOL mail will continually fail to pull all mail through thunderbird. (If this is related to the wifi dropping, I don't know.)
Finally, after two months, I'm giving up. I'm going to install Vista on her system and pass her off to someone else who will support her. (She can use my laptop's copy of Vista Business, since I wiped it off over a year ago.)
It is unfortunate that such a nice system like openSUSE will fall to a simple thing like not having a good solid network driver or good network interface. (I have intel drivers in my laptops and rarely have issues, while KNetwork manager is okay, but not very user-friendly.)
Umm, if this is a desktop you could run an AP in client mode and the computer will not even know it's wireless, solved my problem before it started. Mike -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
ka1ifq skrev:
On Monday 22 September 2008 12:32:53 am Kai Ponte wrote:
My father-in-law's wife (my mother-in-law passed away some years ago) recently had me get her a new computer. She had a six-year-old system running expee that was ready to visit the recycle center.
I got her a new Dell system with freeDOS and promptly loaded openSUSE 10.3. Her only requirements were word processing, email (AOL) and eBay.
So I get her the system and eventually configure it for AOL mail using Thunderbird.
Although I had some initial problems setting up her system at their house - she uses Wireless to connect to the cable modem from another room - it seemed to work.
However, we kept running into issues. The wifi (Linksys running ndiswrapper) will continually drop. They have Cox cable, who will NOT support Linux configuration. Also, her AOL mail will continually fail to pull all mail through thunderbird. (If this is related to the wifi dropping, I don't know.)
Finally, after two months, I'm giving up. I'm going to install Vista on her system and pass her off to someone else who will support her. (She can use my laptop's copy of Vista Business, since I wiped it off over a year ago.)
It is unfortunate that such a nice system like openSUSE will fall to a simple thing like not having a good solid network driver or good network interface. (I have intel drivers in my laptops and rarely have issues, while KNetwork manager is okay, but not very user-friendly.)
Umm, if this is a desktop you could run an AP in client mode and the computer will not even know it's wireless, solved my problem before it started. Mike
- elaborate, please :-) -- ------------------------------ Med venlig hilsen/Best regards Verner Kjærsgaard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 22 September 2008 08:39:29 am Verner Kjærsgaard wrote:
ka1ifq skrev:
On Monday 22 September 2008 12:32:53 am Kai Ponte wrote:
My father-in-law's wife (my mother-in-law passed away some years ago) recently had me get her a new computer. She had a six-year-old system running expee that was ready to visit the recycle center.
I got her a new Dell system with freeDOS and promptly loaded openSUSE 10.3. Her only requirements were word processing, email (AOL) and eBay. However, we kept running into issues. The wifi (Linksys running ndiswrapper) will continually drop. They have Cox cable, who will NOT support Linux configuration. Also, her AOL mail will continually fail to pull all mail through thunderbird. (If this is related to the wifi dropping, I don't know.) Finally, after two months, I'm giving up. I'm going to install Vista on her system and pass her off to someone else who will support her. (She can use my laptop's copy of Vista Business, since I wiped it off over a year ago.)
Umm, if this is a desktop you could run an AP in client mode and the computer will not even know it's wireless, solved my problem before it started. Mike
- elaborate, please :-) Med venlig hilsen/Best regards Verner Kjærsgaard
I setup an AP in client mode, AP adds wireless to a router that is not wireless, in client mode it acts like a wireless card in your computer with one differance, it has a rj jack, you put a cable into your computer and it does not know the differance between a hard wire network and the AP in Client mode. I have done this with a Linksys WAP11 and a Buffalo WHR-G54S, the Buffalo is a wireless router and after it was setup allows me to use the switch part so I can have more than one device (4) plugged in, it also runs in Bridge mode so I extend my wireless for other wireless devices. The Buffalo was a better choice because at the time it was on sale with a mail in rebate, cost 1/3 the price of the WAP11. I think most AP's will do this, and probably a lot of the routers will you just have to check. Hope this helps as it saved me a lot of grief. Mike -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:09:29 Verner Kjærsgaard wrote:
Umm, if this is a desktop you could run an AP in client mode and the computer will not even know it's wireless, solved my problem before it started. Mike
- elaborate, please :-)
That is actually a good suggestion if you happen to have a spare wireless router/AP. By plugging the desktop machine's ethernet port into a wireless AP, then running that AP in client mode so that it connects to the main wireless AP, the desktop machine simply thinks it is talking to a wired connection. The RF side effectively becomes a wireless ethernet bridge to the main wireless router. No wireless NIC drivers, no messing around on the client machine with authentication etc; let the wireless AP client take care of all of that. Wish I'd thought of it myself...:-) -- =================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@iinet.net.au =================================================== When one woman was asked how long she had been going to symphony concerts, she paused to calculate and replied, "Forty-seven years -- and I find I mind it less and less." -- Louise Andrews Kent
On Monday 22 September 2008 09:16:01 am Rodney Baker wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:09:29 Verner Kjærsgaard wrote:
Umm, if this is a desktop you could run an AP in client mode and the computer will not even know it's wireless, solved my problem before it started. Mike
- elaborate, please :-)
That is actually a good suggestion if you happen to have a spare wireless router/AP. By plugging the desktop machine's ethernet port into a wireless AP, then running that AP in client mode so that it connects to the main wireless AP, the desktop machine simply thinks it is talking to a wired connection.
The RF side effectively becomes a wireless ethernet bridge to the main wireless router. No wireless NIC drivers, no messing around on the client machine with authentication etc; let the wireless AP client take care of all of that.
Wish I'd thought of it myself...:-)
Yup, sometimes the simlpest things just boggle the mind after you do it. When I first got the AP (with a usb dongle) I used it with a win machine to get it online until I got a chance to pull a cable, then it sat and I started reading the docs to see what I could actually do with it as an experiment. The Buffalo was just such a deal ($25 after rebate) that I had to buy it, after I set it up I ended up stacking 2 computers on it and doing Remote Desktop to the WinXP machine thru the switch, one cable vs 2 or 4 with a kvm. Sometimes you have everything you need to get the job done, you just don't know it. I learned that from being a Ham.. Mike -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:10:48 ka1ifq wrote: [...]
The RF side effectively becomes a wireless ethernet bridge to the main wireless router. No wireless NIC drivers, no messing around on the client machine with authentication etc; let the wireless AP client take care of all of that.
Wish I'd thought of it myself...:-)
Yup, sometimes the simlpest things just boggle the mind after you do it.
When I first got the AP (with a usb dongle) I used it with a win machine to get it online until I got a chance to pull a cable, then it sat and I started reading the docs to see what I could actually do with it as an experiment.
The Buffalo was just such a deal ($25 after rebate) that I had to buy it, after I set it up I ended up stacking 2 computers on it and doing Remote Desktop to the WinXP machine thru the switch, one cable vs 2 or 4 with a kvm.
Sounds familiar...we use remote desktop a lot at work and I've been known to do it from my desktop to my laptop (or vice versa) sitting site by side on the same desk, just so I don't have to move between keyboards/mice :-). Just because I could. Then I discovered Synergy, but that is another story...
Sometimes you have everything you need to get the job done, you just don't know it. I learned that from being a Ham..
Mike
Too true. I can definitely relate to that... Cheers, Rodney. -- =================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@iinet.net.au =================================================== Eleanor Rigby Sits at the keyboard And waits for a line on the screen Lives in a dream Waits for a signal Finding some code That will make the machine do some more. What is it for? All the lonely users, where do they all come from? All the lonely users, why does it take so long?
ka1ifq wrote:
The Buffalo was just such a deal ($25 after rebate) that I had to buy it, after I set it up I ended up stacking 2 computers on it and doing Remote Desktop to the WinXP machine thru the switch, one cable vs 2 or 4 with a kvm.
Sometimes you have everything you need to get the job done, you just don't know it. I learned that from being a Ham..
Mike
I recently picked up one of these: http://ca.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=12&l2=41&l3=0&l4=0&model=1710&modelmenu=1 It's a wireless router, access point, repeater and wireless interface, for non-wireless devices. It even has a "hot spot" mode, where you can share a hot spot connection. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2008/9/22 Kai Ponte <kai@perfectreign.com>:
I hope all of you out there can take a moment and request linux support from a vendor you know doesn't support them currently. I have written Cox a letter encouraging them to begin supporting Linux like my DSL provider does.
I have been writing one letter every week for the past two years. I have a list of companies that do not aknowledge that Linux exists. If every Linux user were to write to a software or hardware developer, once a week, and request Linux support then we would see the market turn around in no time. Here's a starting point: // Commercial Software Houses Intuit (Quicken, Quickbooks) http://www.intuit.com/contact/ (requires registration) Adobe (Photoshop, Flash CS3 Professional, Captivate, Dreamweaver, Studio) http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/contact.html http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform Sony (Vegas Studio) http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/corporate/contacts.asp Autodesk (Autocad) http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=1073074 SolidWorks http://www.solidworks.com/pages/company/SolidWorksOfficeWorldwide.html (requires registration) Sage (Act!) http://www.act.com/company/contactus/ Nuance (Dragon Naturally Speaking) http://www.nuance.com/help/contact/ hardin-soft (BM-Win Plus (mailing address correction software)) http://www.hardin-soft.com//forms/feedback.html Daz (Bryce (3D modeling and animation)) http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/support/rnlogin/-/?p_sid=vOwOJN6j&p_accessibility=&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=&p_li=&p_next_page=std_alp.php (requires registration) Top Producer (real estate PIM) http://www.topproducer.com/Company/Contact-Us.aspx Samsung (OfficeServ) http://www.samsungbusiness.com/samsungbusiness/pages/support/support.aspx?co... Starry Night (Astronomy software) http://www.starrynightsupport.com/support_trio/index.php?action=ticket_submi... // Games ArenaNet (Guild wars) http://www.arena.net/contact.php Ironclad Games (Sins of a Solar Empire) http://www.ironcladgames.com/contact.html Blizzard Entertainment (World of Warcraft) http://us.blizzard.com/support/webform-us.xml Firzxis (Civilization IV) http://www.firaxis.com/support/ Electronic Arts (lots of games: SIMs, Spore,) http://www.info.ea.com/company/company_prlist.php http://www.info.ea.com/company/company_message.php Valve (Steam: Counterstrike, other games) http://www.valvesoftware.com/contact.html Activision (Gun) http://www.activision.com/index.html#contact|en_US Nival Interactive (Heroes of Might and Magic V) http://www.nival.com/contacts/ Ubisoft (Heroes of Might and Magic V) http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/Info.aspx?tagname=ContactUs Worldwide Biggies (Yahoo! Games) http://wwbiggies.com/contact_us // Hardware manufacturers Creative (Webcams) http://asia.creative.com/contactus/presales/ Logitech (Webcams) http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/logitech_en_amr.cfg/php/enduser/... Nvidia Lexmark (Printers) http://www.lexmark.com/lexmark/sequentialem/home/0,6959,204816596_689444666_... Nokia (PIM sync software with OpenSync) http://www.nokia.com/A4126575 Epson (Printers) http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/AboutContactUs.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes Gigabyte (New motherboards should ship with Linux drivers) http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Company/ContactUs.aspx?CompanyWebPageID=6 Linksys (Networking equipment) http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Content_C1&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1114037291276&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper SIS http://www.sis.com/support/support_tech.htm ASUS http://usa.asus.com/aboutasus.aspx?show=3 Western Digital (Hard drive firmware updates require a Windows computer) http://www.wdc.com/en/buy/help/contactus.asp Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
participants (24)
-
Amedee Van Gasse -
Andreas -
Brian K. White -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Darren Davis -
Dotan Cohen -
Duaine & Laura Hechler -
Greg Freemyer -
Herbert Graeber -
James Knott -
ka1ifq -
Kai Ponte -
M Harris -
Miguel Medalha -
Mike McMullin -
peter nikolic -
Rodney Baker -
Roger Oberholtzer -
steve -
Tony Alfrey -
Verner Kjærsgaard -
vince -
Wolfgang Woehl