[opensuse] Microsof is considering switching to rust. What about Linux? [possibly OT]
Apparently Microsoft is considering switching to Rust instead of C or C++, because it apparently avoids many memory related bugs that plague C/C++ programs. Firefox switched or is switching since 2016. I wonder if Linux at large will do a similar move. The kernel I doubt it. <https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-to-explore-using-rust/> If you consider this too offtopic, you can reply on the offtopic mail list. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)
And here I was thinking my C programming skills were rusty. ;-) On 2019-07-20 08:34 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Apparently Microsoft is considering switching to Rust instead of C or C++, because it apparently avoids many memory related bugs that plague C/C++ programs. Firefox switched or is switching since 2016.
I wonder if Linux at large will do a similar move. The kernel I doubt it.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-to-explore-using-rust/>
If you consider this too offtopic, you can reply on the offtopic mail list.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
James, et al -- ...and then James Knott said... % % And here I was thinking my C programming skills were rusty. ;-) Ba-BOOM-chee! <cymbalcrash> :-) HANW :-D -- David T-G See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/email/ See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/tofu.txt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 8:34 AM Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
Apparently Microsoft is considering switching to Rust instead of C or C++, because it apparently avoids many memory related bugs that plague C/C++ programs. Firefox switched or is switching since 2016.
Man that company lacks direction. The Win32 API was one of its most prized assets but they squandered it. Also see https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost-the-api-war/
I wonder if Linux at large will do a similar move. The kernel I doubt it.
At the moment it can't be done. ARM and Aarch64 are broke. Rust can't update itself through Cargo. It produces a broken installation. I've never been a fan of software that the first step is using it is, use the product's package manger to update the software because they shipped a heaping pile of broken excrement. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019-07-20 06:34 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Apparently Microsoft is considering switching to Rust instead of C or C++, because it apparently avoids many memory related bugs that plague C/C++ programs. Firefox switched or is switching since 2016.
I wonder if Linux at large will do a similar move. The kernel I doubt it.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-to-explore-using-rust/>
If you consider this too offtopic, you can reply on the offtopic mail list.
Are those memory bugs due to compiler errors, or are they due to programmers too lazy to do things like checking for out-of-bounds memory references, or freeing up memory allocations once they are no longer needed? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
W dniu 20.07.2019 o 18:39, Darryl Gregorash pisze:
On 2019-07-20 06:34 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Apparently Microsoft is considering switching to Rust instead of C or C++, because it apparently avoids many memory related bugs that plague C/C++ programs. Firefox switched or is switching since 2016.
I wonder if Linux at large will do a similar move. The kernel I doubt it.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-to-explore-using-rust/>
If you consider this too offtopic, you can reply on the offtopic mail list.
Are those memory bugs due to compiler errors, or are they due to programmers too lazy to do things like checking for out-of-bounds memory references, or freeing up memory allocations once they are no longer needed?
Or maybe people even when they really pay attention sometimes make mistakes? Recently I wrote a big program in C++. Even though I used latest C++17 standard, followed all good practices I could remember and had a lot of unit test, I still had few (about 2 or 3) memory related errors. They were hard to find. I needed to recompile boost with valgrind support enabled. I needed to spend time trying to figure out where things go wrong. I felt I was wasting my time, because if I could use Rust (and I couldn't because of missing libraries) these errors would be caught by compiler. So unless you are always writing error-free programs, stop using this "lazy developers" argument. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 20/07/2019 19.10, Adam Mizerski wrote:
W dniu 20.07.2019 o 18:39, Darryl Gregorash pisze:
On 2019-07-20 06:34 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Apparently Microsoft is considering switching to Rust instead of C or C++, because it apparently avoids many memory related bugs that plague C/C++ programs. Firefox switched or is switching since 2016.
I wonder if Linux at large will do a similar move. The kernel I doubt it.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-to-explore-using-rust/>
If you consider this too offtopic, you can reply on the offtopic mail list.
Are those memory bugs due to compiler errors, or are they due to programmers too lazy to do things like checking for out-of-bounds memory references, or freeing up memory allocations once they are no longer needed?
Or maybe people even when they really pay attention sometimes make mistakes? Recently I wrote a big program in C++. Even though I used latest C++17 standard, followed all good practices I could remember and had a lot of unit test, I still had few (about 2 or 3) memory related errors. They were hard to find. I needed to recompile boost with valgrind support enabled. I needed to spend time trying to figure out where things go wrong. I felt I was wasting my time, because if I could use Rust (and I couldn't because of missing libraries) these errors would be caught by compiler.
That's the idea, yes.
So unless you are always writing error-free programs, stop using this "lazy developers" argument.
Indeed. Real life programmers make human mistakes. If we have computers with power to spare, maybe we should use langagues that make those errors impossible or at least most difficult. Me knows nothing about rust. But I'm curious. Maybe I should have a look. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 07/20/2019 07:34 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Apparently Microsoft is considering switching to Rust instead of C or C++, because it apparently avoids many memory related bugs that plague C/C++ programs. Firefox switched or is switching since 2016.
I wonder if Linux at large will do a similar move. The kernel I doubt it.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-to-explore-using-rust/>
If you consider this too offtopic, you can reply on the offtopic mail list.
I suspect Linus would have the same view on Rust he holds for C++ https://lwn.net/Articles/249460/ -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 22/07/2019 08.39, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 07/20/2019 07:34 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Apparently Microsoft is considering switching to Rust instead of C or C++, because it apparently avoids many memory related bugs that plague C/C++ programs. Firefox switched or is switching since 2016.
I wonder if Linux at large will do a similar move. The kernel I doubt it.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-to-explore-using-rust/>
If you consider this too offtopic, you can reply on the offtopic mail list.
I suspect Linus would have the same view on Rust he holds for C++
That's my suspicion as well. I read that article before (Thunderbird remembers and shows the link in different colour). I had a look at the wikipedia article on Rust. There was an example on calculating the factorial via the typical alternatives; not difficult to understand the code. There is also an article on our wiki, at <https://en.opensuse.org/Rust>, but it is about packaging it, not about using it. Obviously I'm not interested in that. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)
participants (7)
-
Adam Mizerski -
Carlos E. R. -
Darryl Gregorash -
David C. Rankin -
David T-G -
James Knott -
Jeffrey Walton