[opensuse] Has dual-boot changed?
So I bought this fancy new motherboard for my wife's machine, She uses Windows xp because she isn't very adept at computers and doesn't want to have to deal with two different systems (the school system uses xp). When I tried to find her copy of xp, I couldn't, so I went ahead and installed 11.3. Later, I found the installation disks and installed xp, expecting to do as I had before, booting into the 11.3 install disks. Tried, failed. I was expecting a vaguely remembered option to "repair installed system", or some such, which isn't on either the net install disk or the complete iso. I'd rather not have to reinstall suse, even if I could be sure that would solve all my problems. So, googling "suse xp dual boot", I find several references to such a feature on ubuntu and some others, but I also hit a scary comment that substituting the xp bootloader is risky, and it's better to modify it to give the option to boot linux (bkpavan.wordpress.com, apcmag.com, www.wellho.net). It's been some months, but I set my laptop up with dual-boot using what really looks like the suse grub bootloader. Has something changed, or am I worrying too much, or...? I found several references to dual-boot on the wiki, but they're all about using or setting up something else after the dual-boot is set up. Where is this "rescue" system referred to in the ubuntu web, and that I clearly remember having before? And is it really so dangerous to simply substitute the xp bootloder with grub? John Perry (from a new account for my wife's computer) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2010/09/12 18:04 (GMT-0400) John Perry composed:
I was expecting a vaguely remembered option to "repair installed system", or some such, which isn't on either the net install disk or the complete iso. I'd rather not have to reinstall suse, even if I could be sure that would solve all my problems.
Repair was dropped from 11.3 because there are too many failure modes and would require a herculean amount of development time to keep useful.
So, googling "suse xp dual boot", I find several references to such a feature on ubuntu and some others, but I also hit a scary comment that substituting the xp bootloader is risky, and it's better to modify it to give the option to boot linux (bkpavan.wordpress.com, apcmag.com, www.wellho.net).
When searching, try "multiboot" or "multi boot" or "multi-boot", as dual boot has a special meaning: exactly two, and more specifically, two different systems booting from the very same partition (e.g. both DOS and Windows booting from C:). Multiboot means any bootable OS number greater than one. http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/partitioningindex.html#WHATDUAL See if http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/install-doz-after.html isn't enough help. If not, ask more specific questions. FWIW, recovering your already installed openSUSE should be easy, but communicating the best procedure to accomplish it isn't, and needs specific and detailed information about your partitioning to acquire the best recommended plan. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 9/12/2010 6:21 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2010/09/12 18:04 (GMT-0400) John Perry composed:
I was expecting a vaguely remembered option to "repair installed system", or some such, which isn't on either the net install disk or the complete iso. I'd rather not have to reinstall suse, even if I could be sure that would solve all my problems. /snip/
I recently tried to find out how to use the XP booter to multi-boot it and one or more Linux systems. I was unsuccessful, altho I seem to remember reading somewhere that it is possible--that was at least three years ago. Microsoft, of course, will not help you to boot a competing system. What I read recently says that XP must be "chain booted." That is to say, Grub will find the XP boot sector and point to it after being accessed itself and doing its thing with the Linux system(s). The other thing I have seen repeatedly over time is that you should always install Windows first. I have never seen instructions for doing it the other way, as the correspondent would like to do. It would be useful to many if someone here knows the solution to either of these problems and will post it on the list. In detail, please! (I was fortunate in having bought the laptop with XP on it already, so the only problem was with Squeeze's grub, as I have mentioned on the Debian list, but since Squeeze is in test mode, I guess they are entitled to a little leeway.) --doug -- Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2010/09/12 22:00 (GMT-0400) Doug composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
/snip/
I recently tried to find out how to use the XP booter to multi-boot it and one or more Linux systems. I was unsuccessful, altho I seem to remember reading somewhere that it is possible...
One link to how was in the post you here replied to - in the part you excised, (titled "Installing Windows® After Something Else").
The other thing I have seen repeatedly over time is that you should always install Windows first. I have never seen instructions for doing it the other way, as the correspondent would like to do.
One link to how was in the post you here replied to - in the part you excised (titled "Installing Windows® After Something Else"). -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2010-09-13 04:00, Doug wrote:
I recently tried to find out how to use the XP booter to multi-boot it and one or more Linux systems. I was unsuccessful, altho I seem to remember reading somewhere that it is possible--that was at least three years ago. Microsoft, of course, will not help you to boot a competing system.
I did that with Win-7. The only problem is that windows refuses to detect any bootable partition that is not another type of windows - but there is a freeware utility that does that trick. I prefer to leave the windows booter, or a default booter, in the MBR. When installing linux, I setup grub in the partition, not in the MBR (which I leave intact), and then mark the partition as bootable. When installing or restoring windows it will mark its own partition as bootable, "killing" grub, but it is trivial to revert the active signal to the linux one. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" GM (Elessar))
I prefer to leave the windows booter, or a default booter, in the MBR. When installing linux, I setup grub in the partition, not in the MBR (which I leave intact), and then mark the partition as bootable. When installing or restoring windows it will mark its own partition as bootable, "killing" grub, but it is trivial to revert the active signal to the linux one.
I do the same. Any version of Windows MBR code will load the active primary's boot sector. There can be a gotcha though with W7, as the disk signature is used for proprietary features (IIRC, BitLocker). Surprisingly, I found this also works if linux is on a logical partition. Grub can be put in the boot sector of the extended primary with a pointer to the logical. The MBR code doesn't care if the primary is the extended. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday, 2010-09-16 at 15:14 -0400, dwgallien wrote:
Surprisingly, I found this also works if linux is on a logical partition. Grub can be put in the boot sector of the extended primary with a pointer to the logical. The MBR code doesn't care if the primary is the extended.
Indeed! I know, because my laptop came with three primaries in use and I had to try install grub in the extended partition. Surprisingly, it worked nicely -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
So I bought this fancy new motherboard for my wife's machine, She uses Windows xp because she isn't very adept at computers and doesn't want to have to deal with two different systems (the school system uses xp).
When I tried to find her copy of xp, I couldn't, so I went ahead and installed 11.3. Later, I found the installation disks and installed xp, expecting to do as I had before, booting into the 11.3 install disks.
Tried, failed. I was expecting a vaguely remembered option to "repair installed system", or some such, which isn't on either the net install disk or the complete iso. I'd rather not have to reinstall suse, even if I could be sure that would solve all my problems.
So, googling "suse xp dual boot", I find several references to such a feature on ubuntu and some others, but I also hit a scary comment that substituting the xp bootloader is risky, and it's better to modify it to give the option to boot linux (bkpavan.wordpress.com, apcmag.com, www.wellho.net).
It's been some months, but I set my laptop up with dual-boot using what really looks like the suse grub bootloader. Has something changed, or am I worrying too much, or...? I found several references to dual-boot on the wiki, but they're all about using or setting up something else after the dual-boot is set up.
Where is this "rescue" system referred to in the ubuntu web, and that I clearly remember having before? And is it really so dangerous to simply substitute the xp bootloder with grub?
John Perry (from a new account for my wife's computer)
At the openSUSE forums there is a great deal of info and assistance on this specific kind of problem, including a very good tutorial by one of the moderators. While the expertise on this mailing list is quite excellent, on the forums you'll find this ground has already been covered many times over and the mods have had a heckuva lot of practice. That said . . . If you installed openSUSE first, the installer probably put grub in the MBR with a pointer to the partition which holds openSUSE; that would have been the first primary unless you changed it. Installing XP next but with the first primary already occupied, presumably you directed it/allowed it to create a second primary to install XP to. XP would then over-write the MBR with its own boot code and mark the second partition as "active"; that would result in the machine booting into XP. Is that where you're at now? And yes, you can set up XP to boot openSUSE. The aforementioned tutorial details how. However, if you don't have openSUSE booting now and you presumably did not install grub to the openSUSE partition boot sector but rather to the MBR, you're going to need to do some command line work from the DVD's Rescue System or much better yet, a Live-CD. You're probably going to need to do this anyway, and while you're at it, it would actually be easier to just leave the XP code in the MBR and switch the partition table "active flag" to the openSUSE partition (some users prefer this as it makes reverting boot control to XP easier); that would boot openSUSE and once in you can modify the grub menu to chain-load XP. In a simple disk setup, there's really no advantage and some disadvantage, to using XP to boot Linux. Or, you can just reinstall the OS's, XP first in the first partition. Then when installing openSUSE you can either put grub in the MBR again or you can install it to the partition boot sector using the XP code in the MBR, as just mentioned above. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 9/13/2010 7:36 PM, dwgallien wrote:
...At the openSUSE forums there is a great deal of info and assistance on this specific kind of problem, including a very good tutorial by one of the moderators. While the expertise on this mailing list is quite excellent, on the forums you'll find this ground has already been covered many times over and the mods have had a heckuva lot of practice. That said . . .
Forums are frustrating for me because people are always telling me to wait a while and so-and-so, "who really knows about all this", should be on soon. Or I find I'm the only one on. Or, there's a list of people on, but no one responds. Or, ...
If you installed openSUSE first, the installer probably put grub in the MBR with a pointer to the partition which holds openSUSE; that would have been the first primary unless you changed it. Installing XP next but with the first primary already occupied, presumably you directed it/allowed it to create a second primary to install XP to. XP would then over-write the MBR with its own boot code and mark the second partition as "active"; that would result in the machine booting into XP. Is that where you're at now?
Exactly.
And yes, you can set up XP to boot openSUSE. ... In a simple disk setup, there's really no advantage and some disadvantage, to using XP to boot Linux.
I'd used gparted to mark both partitions active, hoping that would set me up. It didn't occur to me to make linux the only active partition. I'll also download a live disk, since I've seen it recommended for other uses, too.
Or, you can just reinstall the OS's, XP first in the first partition. Then when installing openSUSE you can either put grub in the MBR again or you can install it to the partition boot sector using the XP code in the MBR, as just mentioned above.
This is how I got my laptop set up. If all else fails, this is exactly what I'll do. Thanks. jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 9/15/2010 9:10 PM, John Perry wrote:
I'd used gparted to mark both partitions active, hoping that would set me up. It didn't occur to me to make linux the only active partition. I'll also download a live disk, since I've seen it recommended for other uses, too.
...Sorry, that was parted-Magic, as I recall a gui wrapper around gparted. jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I'd used gparted to mark both partitions active, hoping that would set me up. It didn't occur to me to make linux the only active partition.
The Windows MBR code will read down the partition table looking for the active flag. It will use the first so marked partition it finds and chain to that partition's boot sector. If two partitions have the flag set, the first record *in the table* will be used; the table is typically in the same order as the actual sequence on disk but need not be. If the partition's boot sector does not contain valid boot code, the process will fail at that point. What the user sees will depend on what, if anything, is in the sector. You can determine which boot code is in a sector by copying the sector with dd and viewing it with xxd or equiv. This can be done with the Live-CD. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 9/15/2010 9:10 PM, John Perry wrote:
On 9/13/2010 7:36 PM, dwgallien wrote:
...At the openSUSE forums there is a great deal of info and assistance on this specific kind of problem, including a very good tutorial by one of the moderators. While the expertise on this mailing list is quite excellent, on the forums you'll find this ground has already been covered many times over and the mods have had a heckuva lot of practice. That said . . .
This did it for me. Thanks, dwgallien. And I didn't even have to come up on the forum; a detailed procedure was in the archives -- a search on "multi-boot" (thanks, Felix!) brought it up as the second hit. To summarize my experience; I partitioned the hd with a 20G first partition for opensuse, 50G second partition for xp, rest in extended partition. Couldn't find my wife's xp install disks, so I installed opensuse so I'd have something to work with. Installed xp when I found it; lost access to suse. Used PartedMagic live cd to get suse back. Used suse for a while, booted back into xp. Lost access to suse. Used PartedMagic live cd to get suse back; xp had marked suse partition unbootable, xp parition bootable. Went through this sequence several times. Finally worked up the courage to follow the forum tutorial (dd into an ntfs partition looks scary!). Now have a working dual-boot system, and know how to get the others when I decide to try them. By the way, when I select suse from the Windows bootloader, I get the complete grub with all the options -- desktop, failsafe, xen, and xp. So when I get around to qnx, I'll put it into the suse grub menu, which is much nicer than the Windows one. Thanks much, guys. jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
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Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Doug -
dwgallien -
Felix Miata -
John Perry