With the recent hoopla about Novell´s strategy about including KDE in SUSE or not, I feel compelled to write about my observations. I read the mailing lists with amusement at first, noticing panic amongst some SUSE users. "I´m swithing to Kubuntu/Fedora/whatever"... Then I realized, these people were seriuos!? I´ve never seen people more eager to jump ship, ever... Is this willingness to dump SUSE somehow connected to bad self esteem, or just a indicator of bad judgement? I mean, shouldn´t you read everything you read with critizism? Do you want to believe the hype, or the rumour of the day? When I read Novell´s memo, I thought: "let´s see, I´m sure they know the importance of supporting KDE, let´s see what develops in the next days", and so on... I noticed a willingness to interpret everything in a worst possible manner in the postings on the mailing lists. I hope these people don´t have any important positions in the community, because I´d hate to rely on people who jump to conclusions without having any hard facts to rely on. I myself have worked as a project manager and a system developer amongst other things, and I have to say that keeping your head cool and being willing to research claims/news/"so called facts" saves your day! Just my $0.02 of worth... /Jan K.
On 11/13/05, Jan Karjalainen
With the recent hoopla about Novell´s strategy about including KDE in SUSE or not, I feel compelled to write about my observations. I read the mailing lists with amusement at first, noticing panic amongst some SUSE users. "I´m swithing to Kubuntu/Fedora/whatever"... Then I realized, these people were seriuos!? I´ve never seen people more eager to jump ship, ever... [..]
Terry Goodkind sums it up nicely in his books: "People will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." And I think this is very true, especially the second part "fear to be true" -- Andre Truter | Software Engineer | Registered Linux user #185282 ICQ #40935899 | AIM: trusoftzaf | http://www.trusoft.za.org ~ A dinosaur is a salamander designed to Mil Spec ~
Andre Truter wrote:
On 11/13/05, Jan Karjalainen
wrote: With the recent hoopla about Novell´s strategy about including KDE in SUSE or not, I feel compelled to write about my observations. I read the mailing lists with amusement at first, noticing panic amongst some SUSE users. "I´m swithing to Kubuntu/Fedora/whatever"... Then I realized, these people were seriuos!? I´ve never seen people more eager to jump ship, ever... [..]
Terry Goodkind sums it up nicely in his books:
"People will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true."
And I think this is very true, especially the second part "fear to be true"
I fear that's true. ;-)
On 11/13/05, Steven T. Hatton
On Sunday 13 November 2005 02:26 pm, Jan Karjalainen wrote:
With the recent hoopla about Novell´s strategy about including KDE in SUSE or not,
Still don't get it eh?
After a 100+ email thread.. no he doesn't. It's much like this thread on CNET about MS removing Sony's rootkit... people were saying MS was the goodguy in all this... they did it for self-serving purposes.. not because they're a "good guy". It's all about money.. same with Novell. But Novell doesn't get it... and neither do the n00bs.. they just attack us old timers and call us crazy because this behavior by Novell is nothing new. -Ben -- Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
Jan Karjalainen wrote:
I hope these people don´t have any important positions in the community, because I´d hate to rely on people who jump to conclusions without having any hard facts to rely on. I myself have worked as a project manager and a system developer amongst other things, and I have to say that keeping your head cool and being willing to research claims/news/"so called facts" saves your day!
Just my $0.02 of worth...
/Jan K.
In my case it was more of a matter of "If they do this then I will do that". I'd hate to leave SuSE but time will tell... I think most of the "old-timers" felt the same way. I don't think they were "jumping to conclusions". Terry -- SuSE Linux 9.3 (i586) -- 2.6.11.4-21.9-default -- Sun 11/13/05 3:55pm up 53 days 21:23, 3 users, load average: 0.33, 0.24, 0.20
I think you also have to remember that you have a self-selecting set - you'll hear from all the people who are sufficiently upset by the decision (including all the ones who will rant endlessly), but you won't hear from the people who don't care. -- David Smith Work Email: Dave.Smith@st.com STMicroelectronics Home Email: David.Smith@ds-electronics.co.uk Bristol, England GPG Key: 0xF13192F2
David SMITH wrote:
I think you also have to remember that you have a self-selecting set - you'll hear from all the people who are sufficiently upset by the decision (including all the ones who will rant endlessly), but you won't hear from the people who don't care. Your forgetting the largest group, those who do not care- to get involved in those types of threads.
-- Joe Morris New Tribes Mission Email Address: Joe_Morris@ntm.org Registered Linux user 231871
On Sunday 13 November 2005 06:28 pm, Joe Morris (NTM) wrote:
David SMITH wrote:
I think you also have to remember that you have a self-selecting set - you'll hear from all the people who are sufficiently upset by the decision (including all the ones who will rant endlessly), but you won't hear from the people who don't care.
Your forgetting the largest group, those who do not care- to get involved in those types of threads.
Don't look now, but... Steven
Peter Onion wrote:
On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 07:28 +0800, Joe Morris (NTM) wrote:
Your forgetting the largest group, those who do not care- to get involved in those types of threads.
Or those of us who actually prefer to run GNOME on SuSE.
Well, that's two down. ;-)
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:26:39 +0100, you wrote:
I hope these people don´t have any important positions in the community, because I´d hate to rely on people who jump to conclusions without having any hard facts to rely on. I myself have worked as a project manager and a system developer amongst other things, and I have to say that keeping your head cool and being willing to research claims/news/"so called facts" saves your day!
Just my $0.02 of worth...
You're expecting people to be rational? What's the weather like on your planet? I realized long ago that if you get a randomly chosen group of 100 people together and tell them a rumor (make certain that you tell them that it's a rumor - repeat the disclaimer a few times if you like) - 99 of them will believe it. Of that 99, 45 of them will be in favor, 45 will be against, 8 will be undecided, and 1 will think that it's a government conspiracy. If the 100th person suggests waiting for further information or suggests trying to confirm it, the other 99 will immediately attack. Personally, I'm frequently embarrassed to be a human. If there is intelligent life in the universe, it's not here. Mike- -- Mornings: Evolution in action. Only the grumpy will survive. -- Please note - Due to the intense volume of spam, we have installed site-wide spam filters at catherders.com. If email from you bounces, try non-HTML, non-encoded, non-attachments.
On 11/14/2005 07:13 AM, Michael W Cocke wrote:
<snippage> If the 100th person suggests waiting for further information or suggests trying to confirm it, the other 99 will immediately attack.
Personally, I'm frequently embarrassed to be a human. If there is intelligent life in the universe, it's not here.
Not so many years ago, a joke running around the astronomy/astrophysics crowd claimed this to be the long-sought proof of the existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe: no intelligent species could conceivably want to visit Earth.
You're expecting people to be rational? What's the weather like on your planet?
I realized long ago that if you get a randomly chosen group of 100 people together and tell them a rumor (make certain that you tell them that it's a rumor - repeat the disclaimer a few times if you like) - 99 of them will believe it. Of that 99, 45 of them will be in favor, 45 will be against, 8 will be undecided, and 1 will think that it's a government conspiracy.
If the 100th person suggests waiting for further information or suggests trying to confirm it, the other 99 will immediately attack.
Personally, I'm frequently embarrassed to be a human. If there is intelligent life in the universe, it's not here.
Mike-
There's a rumour - tell us what! When? Where? Who's got mad cow disease? Kent Brockman (to interviewee about crisis): "So would you say it's time to panic? Time to crack open each other's heads, and feast on the goo inside?" Interviewee: "Why yes I would, Kent" - half-remembered Simpsons episode Fergus
On Monday 14 November 2005 13:13, Michael W Cocke wrote:
I realized long ago that if you get a randomly chosen group of 100 people together and tell them a rumor (make certain that you tell them that it's a rumor - repeat the disclaimer a few times if you like) - 99 of them will believe it. Of that 99, 45 of them will be in favor, 45 will be against, 8 will be undecided, and 1 will think that it's a government conspiracy.
LOL! -- Pob hwyl / Best wishes Kevin Donnelly www.kyfieithu.co.uk - Meddalwedd Rhydd yn Gymraeg www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 08:13:08AM -0500, Michael W Cocke wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:26:39 +0100, you wrote:
I hope these people don´t have any important positions in the community, because I´d hate to rely on people who jump to conclusions without having any hard facts to rely on. I myself have worked as a project manager and a system developer amongst other things, and I have to say that keeping your head cool and being willing to research claims/news/"so called facts" saves your day!
Just my $0.02 of worth...
You're expecting people to be rational? What's the weather like on your planet?
I realized long ago that if you get a randomly chosen group of 100 people together and tell them a rumor (make certain that you tell them that it's a rumor - repeat the disclaimer a few times if you like) - 99 of them will believe it. Of that 99, 45 of them will be in favor, 45 will be against, 8 will be undecided, and 1 will think that it's a government conspiracy.
If the 100th person suggests waiting for further information or suggests trying to confirm it, the other 99 will immediately attack.
Personally, I'm frequently embarrassed to be a human. If there is intelligent life in the universe, it's not here.
Be careful I said that and some guy took huge offense to it and started flaming the crap out of me for saying pretty much what you just said. And he "worked for SUSE so he knows waaaaaay better than me". *Sigh*.
Mike-
-Allen
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participants (14)
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Allen
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Andre Truter
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Ben Rosenberg
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Darryl Gregorash
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David SMITH
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Fergus Wilde
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James Knott
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Jan Karjalainen
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Joe Morris (NTM)
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Kevin Donnelly
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Michael W Cocke
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Peter Onion
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Steven T. Hatton
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Terry Eck