How does Linux deal with Nvidia video cards? I am thinking of getting a Dell laptop and they come with that card, so far as I can tell. Thanks Dennis J. Tuchler Professor of Law 3700 Lindell Blvd. St. Louis, Mo. 63108 314-977-2793
Today, Oct 1, Dennis J. Tuchler wrote:
How does Linux deal with Nvidia video cards? I am thinking of getting a Dell laptop and they come with that card, so far as I can tell.
I'm using a 64MB GeForce2 on SuSE 7.2 and it works perfectly. SuSE detected it just fine, and Quake3 absolutely *screams* on it! I've also use an Nvidia RivaTNT2 with great success. Ken
On Monday 01 October 2001 04:35 pm, you wrote:
How does Linux deal with Nvidia video cards? I am thinking of getting a Dell laptop and they come with that card, so far as I can tell.
Hi Dennis: I would not get a computer with a nVIDIA card. Here is why: 1) While nVIDIA cards do give excellent graphics they tend to screw up other applications like 3D drawings in Star Offices StarDraw. Also, screensavers sometimes malfunction. 2) nVIDIA cards sometimes causes hang on logout. 3) Certain applications, when run on an nVIDIA card, like Gtulpas and Xmms cause serious crashes. 4) You may not be able to return to your original session after switching to a virtual console. 5) Certain applications that use anti aliased fonts (GV) do not work properly, if an nVIDIA card is installed. 6) nVIDIA drivers are not part of the SuSE distribution; you have to download them and install them. A kernel patch is also required. 7) The provided software drivers are closed source so their can be no check, by XFree86.org, on whether they will work properly. I had a nVIDIA card installed in my computer for 18 months. Whether I installed SuSE, Mandrake or RedHat made no difference. There was always some glitch. If nVIDIA could not provide satisfactory drivers in that 18 month period, they never will. nVIDIA is a serious gamming card. For instance, you can use your nVIDIA card to play video roulette, with Sax2, for hours on end! Video roulette is where you constantly reconfigure XF86Config in an attempt to get the pestiferous nVIDIA to work. Basically, if you like protracted configuration problems then nVIDIA is for you. IMHO I would try and get an IBM laptop as they probably come with an ATI card. You should check for linux compatibility here. http://www.linuxcare.com/labs/certs/ A word of warning: If you buy a Dell laptop and then install Linux on it, you may not be able to get warranty support. That has been my experience and also the experience of a Mr. Mike Hall: http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3614/1/ -- Cheers, Jonathan
What a load of bull I'd like to say. I administer four machines with nVidia cards, and have had no problems with the nvidia cards when using nvidias drivers, except for the vt lockup ( in which case, I just disable the vts while in runlevel 5 ) My Toshiba Laptop works purrfectly with nVidias drivers. -tosi ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.Drews" <j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> To: <suse-linux-e@suse.com> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [SLE] Nvidia cards
On Monday 01 October 2001 04:35 pm, you wrote:
How does Linux deal with Nvidia video cards? I am thinking of getting a Dell laptop and they come with that card, so far as I can tell.
Hi Dennis:
I would not get a computer with a nVIDIA card. Here is why:
1) While nVIDIA cards do give excellent graphics they tend to screw up other applications like 3D drawings in Star Offices StarDraw. Also, screensavers sometimes malfunction.
2) nVIDIA cards sometimes causes hang on logout.
3) Certain applications, when run on an nVIDIA card, like Gtulpas and Xmms cause serious crashes.
4) You may not be able to return to your original session after switching to a virtual console.
5) Certain applications that use anti aliased fonts (GV) do not work properly, if an nVIDIA card is installed.
6) nVIDIA drivers are not part of the SuSE distribution; you have to download them and install them. A kernel patch is also required.
7) The provided software drivers are closed source so their can be no check, by XFree86.org, on whether they will work properly.
I had a nVIDIA card installed in my computer for 18 months. Whether I installed SuSE, Mandrake or RedHat made no difference. There was always some glitch. If nVIDIA could not provide satisfactory drivers in that 18 month period, they never will. nVIDIA is a serious gamming card. For instance, you can use your nVIDIA card to play video roulette, with Sax2, for hours on end! Video roulette is where you constantly reconfigure XF86Config in an attempt to get the pestiferous nVIDIA to work. Basically, if you like protracted configuration problems then nVIDIA is for you.
IMHO I would try and get an IBM laptop as they probably come with an ATI card. You should check for linux compatibility here. http://www.linuxcare.com/labs/certs/
A word of warning: If you buy a Dell laptop and then install Linux on it, you may not be able to get warranty support. That has been my experience and also the experience of a Mr. Mike Hall: http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3614/1/
-- Cheers,
Jonathan
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I know from some of the mailings to this list that some people have had problems with the nVidia drivers, and I must admit that I have had one or two glitches myself. I have a Creative GeForce2 GTS in my machine and don't have any major problems with it. Each variant of the GeForce2 boards must vary to a greater or lesser degree in a similar fashion to motherboards that are based around the same chipset. Under Windoze some boards work with the nVidia reference drivers and some dont, so I guess it is a case of suck it and see. IMHO The performance gains are well worth the minor glitches. Well thats my 5p worth... NEXT! :-) Roger -- Roger L.S. Griffiths, BSc (Hons) Gott würfelt nicht (God does not play dice) - Albert Einstein
On Monday 01 October 2001 05:01 pm, you wrote:
What a load of bull I'd like to say.
Well Tosi I disagree:
I administer four machines
Basically, you and the others who have had success with this card are either computer professionals or Linux users with considerable experience. Your Linux newcomer is not going to go through all those hassles. They will just return the distro. They are not going to switch from KDM to GDM or try to figure out why the box hangs on logout. They want to do an install and have it run right. As a matter of fact a woman wrote in here about three months ago having terrific problems with her Dell Inspiron and as far as I can tell she had to return it because she could not get the nVIDIA card to be detected. That's my reason for disliking the nVIDIA. It's great for UNIX adepts whose principal GUI time is spent using Quake or BZflag but it's a real pain for a newcomer who wants a functioning desktop. -- Cheers, Jonathan
On Mon, Oct 01, 2001 at 05:42:39PM -0500 or thereabouts, J. Drews wrote:
On Monday 01 October 2001 04:35 pm, you wrote:
How does Linux deal with Nvidia video cards? I am thinking of getting a Dell laptop and they come with that card, so far as I can tell.
Hi Dennis:
I would not get a computer with a nVIDIA card. Here is why:
Well Jonathan, I at times have had problems with my TNT2 card I must admit, and this is with a couple of distros.. although the newer drivers seem to be better, but this is subjective of course. My question is, what card/mfg would you or others recommend. I use my box for production, hard text / db work, etc. and occasionally, very occasionally play a 3D game or two.. but need a good day to day dependable card... What bothers me about Nvidia is their not too swift support in terms of drivers, (historically), and fixes for bugs... So, what would you and others recommend? -- Best regards, Gary Today's thought: With proper diet, rest, and exercise a healthy body will last a lifetime.
On Monday 01 October 2001 23:36, you wrote:
My question is, what card/mfg would you or others recommend. I use my box for production, hard text / db work, etc. and occasionally, very occasionally play a 3D game or two.. but need a good day to day dependable card... What bothers me about Nvidia is their not too swift support in terms of drivers, (historically), and fixes for bugs... So, what would you and others recommend?
Probably the more 3D gaming one does, the more one would want to use an nvidia even with the occasional glitches. I do very little 3D gaming, so I just want a good solid card that will run steadily without problems. I have been very happy with the ATI Rage Fury Pro 32 MB AGP. Absolutely no problems whatsoever, in well over a year of use with SuSE. *************************************************** Powered by SuSE Linux 7.2 Professional KDE 2.1.2 KMail 1.2 Bryan S. Tyson bryantyson@earthlink.net ***************************************************
On Monday 01 October 2001 10:36 pm, you wrote:
What bothers me about Nvidia is their not too swift support in terms of drivers, (historically), and fixes for bugs...
Exactly! I allowed myself to be strung along by nVIDIA for 18 months. I bet they have one guy at nVIDIA working on those damn drivers. The lmore experienced inux users can get them to work but for newcomers it's just hell. Go look at nVIDIA's instructions for installing the kernel patch. In the last two hours there were posts about the nVIDIA drivers. nVIDIA isn't a graphics card chipset, it's a disease people should recover from.
So, what would you and others recommend?
Well I switched from my Diamond Viper 770D (nVIDIA TNT2) to a 64 Mb ATI Radeon card. This is 3D card. I decided to do that after reading on ATI's web site that they make the details of their cards available to XFree86.org. I am sure there are other good card manufacturers too. I posted those comments to warn newbies, who are sure to come as Linux becomes easier to install and KDE and GNOME mature. (FYI GNOME Abiword 9.4 was released tonight; it has enhanced features that allow reading M$ docs.) Basically SuSE has so many applications to learn that it's shame to expend hours agonizing over inscrutible software crashes. So what if ATI's Radeon is 300 fps slower. It just flat works. No antialiasing corruptions, no surprises with software packages. Mind you, I am not trying to start a holy war about video cards. However it must be born in mind that to post glowing accounts about nVIDIA is an advertisement for newbies to pickup a computer equipped with one. When they install Linux on it, they are in for a nasty surprise. -- Cheers, Jonathan
I too have experienced the joy of Nvidia cards, which I presently have in my system (Vanta TNT2). The card works very nicely for the most part and I have had no serious problems with it, but I wish I had known before hand, which cards worked better and were supported better with Linux before purchasing. Since Nvidia has gone to bed with Microsoft, I am surprised that Linux gets any drivers at all. They build their boards and chips to Microsoft's specs, so support for other OS's will never be strong, unless we speak to them with our purchasing dollars. I am still trying to figure out why the last two driver updates will not work on my system! I have worked on the problem for a week, with the help of many users on this list and SuSE support also. Maybe I will figure out the problem before I replace the card, maybe not, but at this point I would only recommend folks getting Linux supported video cards. end of line Tracer ------------------------------- On Tuesday 02 October 2001 01:02 am, J.Drews, babbled about:
Well I switched from my Diamond Viper 770D (nVIDIA TNT2) to a 64 Mb ATI Radeon card. This is 3D card. I decided to do that after reading on ATI's web site that they make the details of their cards available to XFree86.org. I am sure there are other good card manufacturers too.
I posted those comments to warn newbies, who are sure to come as Linux becomes easier to install and KDE and GNOME mature. (FYI GNOME Abiword 9.4 was released tonight; it has enhanced features that allow reading M$ docs.) Basically SuSE has so many applications to learn that it's shame to expend hours agonizing over inscrutible software crashes. So what if ATI's Radeon is 300 fps slower. It just flat works. No antialiasing corruptions, no surprises with software packages. Mind you, I am not trying to start a holy war about video cards. However it must be born in mind that to post glowing accounts about nVIDIA is an advertisement for newbies to pickup a computer equipped with one. When they install Linux on it, they are in for a nasty surprise.
-- ---KMail 1.3.1--- SuSE Linux v7.2--- Registered Linux User #225206 /tracerb@sprintmail.com/ *Magic Page Products* *Team Amiga* http://home.sprintmail.com/~tracerb
Well, I have seen a lot of bantering on this subject, so I thought I'd throw in my two cents. I have 7 computers, of which 5 have NVidia cards (ranging from TNT2 M64 to GeForce 2 MX.) The only problem I have had, was with one machine that used to lock up (completely hang, no keyboard, no network... required a power off/on to get it back.) This problem was corrected by replacing a cheaply mfr'd TNT2 card from Aztech. I dropped an ELSA card in it's place and never had another issue. I use XMMS, AA and TrueType fonts, I do CD ripping and burning, play Q3 and all work beautifully. I am runnig the latest "SuSE released" kernel and the latest NV drivers - all of which were simply installed via RPM. True, NV is in bed with MS, and I may rethink my next purchase of a graphics card (possibly moving to ATI or Matrox) but until then, I am quite happy with what I have. - Herman On Tue, 2 Oct 2001, Tracer Bullet wrote: ->I too have experienced the joy of Nvidia cards, which I presently have ->in my system (Vanta TNT2). The card works very nicely for the most ->part and I have had no serious problems with it, but I wish I had known ->before hand, which cards worked better and were supported better with ->Linux before purchasing. Since Nvidia has gone to bed with Microsoft, ->I am surprised that Linux gets any drivers at all. They build their ->boards and chips to Microsoft's specs, so support for other OS's will ->never be strong, unless we speak to them with our purchasing dollars. ->I am still trying to figure out why the last two driver updates will ->not work on my system! I have worked on the problem for a week, with ->the help of many users on this list and SuSE support also. Maybe I ->will figure out the problem before I replace the card, maybe not, but ->at this point I would only recommend folks getting Linux supported ->video cards. -> ->end of line ->Tracer ->------------------------------- ->On Tuesday 02 October 2001 01:02 am, J.Drews, babbled about: -> ->> Well I switched from my Diamond Viper 770D (nVIDIA TNT2) to a 64 Mb ->> ATI Radeon card. This is 3D card. I decided to do that after reading ->> on ATI's web site that they make the details of their cards available ->> to XFree86.org. I am sure there are other good card manufacturers ->> too. ->> ->> I posted those comments to warn newbies, who are sure to come as ->> Linux becomes easier to install and KDE and GNOME mature. (FYI GNOME ->> Abiword 9.4 was released tonight; it has enhanced features that allow ->> reading M$ docs.) Basically SuSE has so many applications to learn ->> that it's shame to expend hours agonizing over inscrutible software ->> crashes. So what if ATI's Radeon is 300 fps slower. It just flat ->> works. No antialiasing corruptions, no surprises with software ->> packages. Mind you, I am not trying to start a holy war about video ->> cards. However it must be born in mind that to post glowing accounts ->> about nVIDIA is an advertisement for newbies to pickup a computer ->> equipped with one. When they install Linux on it, they are in for a ->> nasty surprise. -> ->
On Tuesday 02 Oct 2001 6:02 am, J.Drews wrote:
On Monday 01 October 2001 10:36 pm, you wrote:
What bothers me about Nvidia is their not too swift support in terms of drivers, (historically), and fixes for bugs...
Exactly! I allowed myself to be strung along by nVIDIA for 18 months. I bet they have one guy at nVIDIA working on those damn drivers. The lmore experienced inux users can get them to work but for newcomers it's just hell. Go look at nVIDIA's instructions for installing the kernel patch. In the last two hours there were posts about the nVIDIA drivers. nVIDIA isn't a graphics card chipset, it's a disease people should recover from.
I think you ought to give nVidia a little more credit, drivers are not the easiest thing to write when you don't know how a board maufacturer is going use the chipset. The best they can do is make it work for their reference board. IMHO It is the responsibility of the board maufacturers to get of their ass and write their version of the linux drivers if their board has a problem with them.
So, what would you and others recommend?
Well I switched from my Diamond Viper 770D (nVIDIA TNT2) to a 64 Mb ATI Radeon card. This is 3D card. I decided to do that after reading on ATI's web site that they make the details of their cards available to XFree86.org. I am sure there are other good card manufacturers too. I have only ever heard bad things about the Diamond video cards, a company I used to work for bought a couple of Dell PCs with the Diamond Viper cards and had a hell of a load of problems with them. Personally speaking you are better sticking with one of the main three suppliers of nVidia based cards : Hercules, Elsa, and Creative.
The problem with nVidia based cards is not the chipset, it is some of the so called tweaks that some manufcturers put into their versions of the nVidia reference board design. BTW A colleaue of mine bought an ATI Radeon card and did not think much of it. Also, it is rumoured that ATI had one or two problems themselves with their Windoze drivers. Anyway, you pays your money and takes your choice, the Creative nVidia cards have always worked for me and I would recomend them to anyone. -- Roger L.S. Griffiths, BSc (Hons) Gott würfelt nicht (God does not play dice) - Albert Einstein
I would not get a computer with a nVIDIA card. Here is why:
1) While nVIDIA cards do give excellent graphics they tend to screw up other applications like 3D drawings in Star Offices StarDraw. Also, screensavers sometimes malfunction.
Not on my machine here at work, or my machine at home. I use Staroffice on both.
2) nVIDIA cards sometimes causes hang on logout.
I've never seen that either. KDE has/had some logout bugs but I've never heard those attributed to nVIDIA cards.
3) Certain applications, when run on an nVIDIA card, like Gtulpas and Xmms cause serious crashes.
Dunno that first one, but Xmms works perfectly for me.
4) You may not be able to return to your original session after switching to a virtual console.
Never seen that one and I use VTs constantly.
5) Certain applications that use anti aliased fonts (GV) do not work properly, if an nVIDIA card is installed.
I use Qt based AA fonts all the time and I've never had a problem.
6) nVIDIA drivers are not part of the SuSE distribution; you have to download them and install them. A kernel patch is also required.
7.1 installed out of the box on both my nVIDIA equipped machines. I upgraded them both immediately though so I didn't get to test much.
7) The provided software drivers are closed source so their can be no check, by XFree86.org, on whether they will work properly.
That one, at least, is true. 1 out of 7. Jonathon, you've clearly had a bad experience with an nVIDIA card, but all but the last point of the above can be put down to bad configuration. For the sake of the list archives, I'd like to make it clear that nVIDIA cards do work; anyone who has already got one will be happy with its performance under Linux. If you have config problems, don't get bitter, just ask. Loads of people use these cards quite happily. If you're looking to buy from new, ATI are the guys who support Linux the best though.
* Derek Fountain <fountai@hursley.ibm.com> (Tue, Oct 02, 2001 at 08:35:00AM +0100)
I would not get a computer with a nVIDIA card. Here is why:
1) While nVIDIA cards do give excellent graphics they tend to screw up other applications like 3D drawings in Star Offices StarDraw. Also, screensavers sometimes malfunction.
Not on my machine here at work, or my machine at home. I use Staroffice on both.
That was a problem with older drivers (0.6 or 0.7 forgot which)
2) nVIDIA cards sometimes causes hang on logout. I've never seen that either. KDE has/had some logout bugs but I've never heard those attributed to nVIDIA cards.
Is true, even 1.251 had problems on the geforce2go , but this was specific to the dell inspiron laptop with geforce2go and has been fixed in 1.521 and 1.541 series of drivers.
3) Certain applications, when run on an nVIDIA card, like Gtulpas and Xmms cause serious crashes. Dunno that first one, but Xmms works perfectly for me.
xmms has been working fine for me on all NVidia drivers (0.6 upward). It is true that the Xserver sometimes gets stuck, and dual CPU machines with (older) versions of the NVidia drivers are not too stable.
4) You may not be able to return to your original session after switching to a virtual console. Never seen that one and I use VTs constantly.
That was fixed in KDE2.2 and/or the 1.5* series of NVidia drivers, forgot which.
5) Certain applications that use anti aliased fonts (GV) do not work properly, if an nVIDIA card is installed. I use Qt based AA fonts all the time and I've never had a problem. Than AA fonts aren;t properly installed, or you're using /were using an old version of their driver software
6) nVIDIA drivers are not part of the SuSE distribution; you have to download them and install them. A kernel patch is also required. 7.1 installed out of the box on both my nVIDIA equipped machines. I upgraded them both immediately though so I didn't get to test much.
You don;t need a kernel patch. you download a kernel module, different beast. And yes, you have to download the latest driver to get full acceleration. The opensource nv drivers do work out of the box though.
7) The provided software drivers are closed source so their can be no check, by XFree86.org, on whether they will work properly. That one, at least, is true. 1 out of 7.
In all fairness though, they work better than some of the open source XFree drivers (multiple Gl contexts in a single application wreac havoc on a Voodoo board. The matrox G200, G400 and G450 can all be crashed repeatedly by moving Gl windows over each other (e.g. some of the xscreensaver demos, or simply multiple instances of gears). This might have been fixed in later versions though.
Jonathon, you've clearly had a bad experience with an nVIDIA card, but all but the last point of the above can be put down to bad configuration.
For the sake of the list archives, I'd like to make it clear that nVIDIA cards do work; anyone who has already got one will be happy with its performance under Linux. If you have config problems, don't get bitter, just ask. Loads of people use these cards quite happily.
one major drawback is that NVidia drivers (1.0 and upward) no longer support color indexed textures, which sucks. Gerhard, <@jasongeo.com> == The Acoustic Motorbiker == -- __O Some say the end is near. =`\<, Some say we'll see armageddon soon (=)/(=) I certainly hope we will I could use a vacation
# >> 2) nVIDIA cards sometimes causes hang on logout. # > I've never seen that either. KDE has/had some logout bugs but I've never # > heard those attributed to nVIDIA cards. # # Is true, # even 1.251 had problems on the geforce2go , # but this was specific to the dell inspiron laptop with geforce2go and has # been fixed in 1.521 and 1.541 series of drivers. I use an TNT2 M64 and new driver only do the problem get worst :( Now system crashs at diferente place mainly when I use vmware and after it i try t go to console I simple loose the keyboard input I get no chance to get it back system seems to stay working but keyboard goes off even Sys Req. does not work at all on that happens. -- Elton Machado info@ideiasdigitais.co.pt http://www.ideiasdigitais.co.pt PGP KEY # 69EBD43A Portugal *** O tempo pode ser o teu melhor amigo. Se tiveres tempo para o saberes. *** Powered by SuSE Linux 7.2 Professional Registered Linux
* Elton Machado <info@ideiasdigitais.co.pt> (Tue, Oct 02, 2001 at 10:10:52PM +0100)
# >> 2) nVIDIA cards sometimes causes hang on logout. # > I've never seen that either. KDE has/had some logout bugs but I've never # > heard those attributed to nVIDIA cards. # # Is true, # even 1.251 had problems on the geforce2go , # but this was specific to the dell inspiron laptop with geforce2go and has # been fixed in 1.521 and 1.541 series of drivers.
I use an TNT2 M64 and new driver only do the problem get worst :(
Now system crashs at diferente place mainly when I use vmware and after it i try t go to console I simple loose the keyboard input I get no chance to get it back system seems to stay working but keyboard goes off even Sys Req. does not work at all on that happens.
There are a few issues : - Using Ctrl-Alt-F1..6 to switch to virtual mconsole causes weird behaviour. This is a combo of kdm/nvidia (maybe other cards as well). This was solved by some setting in the Xservers file (iirc). I think KDE2.2.1 has solved this porblem (earlier versions probably did as well). This was discussed both here and on the KDE list. If you check the archives of suse-e you should find the detailed workaround. - VMware and older versions of KDE (KDE 2.0 series) caused X crashes for me .. since then I upgraded Xfree from 4.0.1 to Xf 4.0.* to 4.1.0 upgraded KDE2.0 using pretty much any beat upto 2.2.1 and upgraded my NVidia drivers from 0.6 to 0.9767 and the problem went away. I have no clue which of those changes did the trick. (I might even have upgraded vmware ) - TNT/TNT2 cards seem to be a bit less well supported with the latest drivers. Are you using the 1541 driver ? The changelog lists some TNT specific fixes compared to the 1521. But we have a TNT card here, and it indeed seemed to be less stable with 1.521 (but we had to switch back to 0.9769 due to the colorindexed texturing problem). Kind regards, -- Gerhard den Hollander Phone +31-10.280.1515 Global Technical Support Fax +31-10.280.1511 Jason Geosystems BV (When calling please note: we are in GMT+1) gdenhollander@jasongeo.com POBox 1573 visit us at http://www.jasongeo.com 3000 BN Rotterdam JASON.......#1 in Reservoir Characterization The Netherlands This e-mail and any attachment is/are intended solely for the named addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, we request that you do not disseminate, forward, distribute or copy this e-mail message. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and destroy the original message.
Good Lord! This is the third time I've tried to install Linux, and it still hasn't cost me as much to purchase the system as it does to buy Windows. But the costs are incurred elsewhere. I reckon it'll take me at least three months to get up to the stage at which I'll be able to configure modem and ethernet card to the stage where I can go on the net. For the *real* newbie like myself - most of those who call themselves 'newbies' on this list are already thoroughly familiar with the inner workings of some other OS, and have at least a slight tendency to geekhood - shifting from MS to Linux is either too hard to do or takes up oodles of time. I've decided to break it this time, because I've had enough of MS. But I wonder if anyone out there could tell me what I ought to read to get up and running, and which doesn't assume that I already know a baud from a bit. Best wishes -- Timothy Mason <tmason@club-internet.fr> http://perso.club-internet.fr/tmason/
On Wednesday 03 October 2001 3:49 am, Timothy Mason wrote:
Good Lord! This is the third time I've tried to install Linux, and it still hasn't cost me as much to purchase the system as it does to buy Windows.
But the costs are incurred elsewhere. I reckon it'll take me at least three months to get up to the stage at which I'll be able to configure modem and ethernet card to the stage where I can go on the net. For the *real* newbie like myself - most of those who call themselves 'newbies' on this list are already thoroughly familiar with the inner workings of some other OS, and have at least a slight tendency to geekhood - shifting from MS to Linux is either too hard to do or takes up oodles of time. I've decided to break it this time, because I've had enough of MS. But I wonder if anyone out there could tell me what I ought to read to get up and running, and which doesn't assume that I already know a baud from a bit.
Best wishes
One good link to simple instructions: http://www.linux.nf/stepbystep.html -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 10/03/01 08:37 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "He who is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else."
On Wednesday 03 October 2001 03:49 am, Timothy Mason wrote:
But I wonder if anyone out there could tell me what I ought to read to get up and running, and which doesn't assume that I already know a baud from a bit.
Go to either Linux.org or LinuxStart.com and look in the local user group (LUG) sections. Both of these web sites have extensive listings. As good as SuSE's manuals are (and that is very, very good indeed), there is no substitute for hands-on training. At a LUG meeting, you can get the training for free, from people who know their subject and are passionate about it. Good luck! Scott -- -----------------------+------------------------------------------------------ Scott Courtney | "I don't mind Microsoft making money. I mind them courtney@4th.com | having a bad operating system." -- Linus Torvalds http://www.4th.com/ | ("The Rebel Code," NY Times, 21 February 1999)
/usr/doc and /usr/doc/packages/`take your pick' This is a really facetious answer but... I have been using Linux for about 2 years. Started with SuSE 6.0, upgraded to SuSE 6.3 and am waiting for 7.3. I am not a computer professional (i won't starve if someone takes my computer away) but I'm a real addict. Part of the fun is figuring things out. The more you read to solve a specific problem the more you learn to do other things as well. Like SuSE says Have Fun! Rod -- 100% Linux Only genuine Linux tools were used in the generation and posting of this email.
"J.Drews" wrote:
On Monday 01 October 2001 04:35 pm, you wrote:
How does Linux deal with Nvidia video cards? I am thinking of getting a Dell laptop and they come with that card, so far as I can tell.
Hi Dennis:
I would not get a computer with a nVIDIA card. Here is why:
1) While nVIDIA cards do give excellent graphics they tend to screw up other applications like 3D drawings in Star Offices StarDraw. Also, screensavers sometimes malfunction.
Never had this problem. Sounds like misconfigured board.
2) nVIDIA cards sometimes causes hang on logout.
If you get the latest drivers and SuSE/kernel this one is gone.
3) Certain applications, when run on an nVIDIA card, like Gtulpas and Xmms cause serious crashes.
Again sounds like something is misconfigured or xmms is old. It had a general 3d problem with it's pluggin.
4) You may not be able to return to your original session after switching to a virtual console.
Same problem as #2. It's fixed.
5) Certain applications that use anti aliased fonts (GV) do not work properly, if an nVIDIA card is installed.
AA fonts work fine with the NVdriver
6) nVIDIA drivers are not part of the SuSE distribution; you have to download them and install them. A kernel patch is also required.
It's a piece of cake. Just remember to always to the tarbals not the rpms. No kernel PATCH was ever required.
7) The provided software drivers are closed source so their can be no check, by XFree86.org, on whether they will work properly.
This is the real problem I see here. Fortunatly the Nvidia people pretty much stay on top of things and release driver updates fairly often.
I had a nVIDIA card installed in my computer for 18 months. Whether I installed SuSE, Mandrake or RedHat made no difference. There was always some glitch. If nVIDIA could not provide satisfactory drivers in that 18 month period, they never will. nVIDIA is a serious gamming card. For instance, you can use your nVIDIA card to play video roulette, with Sax2, for hours on end! Video roulette is where you constantly reconfigure XF86Config in an attempt to get the pestiferous nVIDIA to work. Basically, if you like protracted configuration problems then nVIDIA is for you.
Just remember to always configure without glx/nvidia 3d when using sax2 and then add it in manually to XF86config afterwards, I wouldn't hesitate to get one. They are greate cards. The GEforce-3 is unbeatable by anyone elses card. -- Mark Hounschell dmarkh@cfl.rr.com
Yesterday, Oct 1, J.Drews wrote:
I would not get a computer with a nVIDIA card. Here is why:
1) While nVIDIA cards do give excellent graphics they tend to screw up other applications like 3D drawings in Star Offices StarDraw. Also, screensavers sometimes malfunction.
I've had a Viper V770 (Riva TNT2) as well as a GeForce2 and run xscreensaver all the time, and have not had this happen to me.
2) nVIDIA cards sometimes causes hang on logout.
The only "hang" I ever had was solved with "CTRL-C".
3) Certain applications, when run on an nVIDIA card, like Gtulpas and Xmms cause serious crashes.
Was this reported to the maintainer of the respective program? I've never had XMMS crash on me for any reason....ever!
4) You may not be able to return to your original session after switching to a virtual console.
5) Certain applications that use anti aliased fonts (GV) do not work properly, if an nVIDIA card is installed.
I'm using AA fonts with no problems at all....
6) nVIDIA drivers are not part of the SuSE distribution; you have to download them and install them. A kernel patch is also required.
Right and wrong. SuSE ships a non-3D accelerated version of the driver. If you want 3D, you need to get the ones from nVidia's site. There is no kernel patch required. Big difference between a kernel patch and a kernel module. A kernel module is supplied by nVidia, but that is installed quite simply via rpm.
7) The provided software drivers are closed source so their can be no check, by XFree86.org, on whether they will work properly.
True. This is more of a principle issue than anything. Proprietary software will always exist in one form or another. Who you trust to check if it works or not is up to you.
I had a nVIDIA card installed in my computer for 18 months. Whether I installed SuSE, Mandrake or RedHat made no difference. There was always some glitch. If nVIDIA could not provide satisfactory drivers in that 18 month period, they never will. nVIDIA is a serious gamming card. For instance, you can use your nVIDIA card to play video roulette, with Sax2, for hours on end! Video roulette is where you constantly reconfigure XF86Config in an attempt to get the pestiferous nVIDIA to work. Basically, if you like protracted configuration problems then nVIDIA is for you.
I've installed SuSE 7.2 on three different machines each with nVidia cards in them. On each occasion SaX2 found and properly configured the cards with no help from me......aside from me saying that I wanted to enable hardware acceleration. I've spent far more time getting cards installed and configured in Windoze than in Linux. Ken
# > 2) nVIDIA cards sometimes causes hang on logout. # # The only "hang" I ever had was solved with "CTRL-C". # # Ken Sometimes when I go out of kde or simple chg from/to console system crashs and I lost keyboard input even I can't do Syskey magic request. I don't to know what to do could you help me? I have an TNT2 M64 32Mb and last drivers installed When I installed the new drivers system crashs at diferents places but it crashed anyway more when I use vmware sometimes when I don't use vmware system seems to be more stable. My card has a fan and don't crash in work simple when I chg from console to screen oor try to go out if you need some log to get to some conclusion please indicate wich logs file you want. Thanks in advance. Elton Machado info@ideiasdigitais.co.pt http://www.ideiasdigitais.co.pt PGP KEY # 69EBD43A Portugal *** O tempo pode ser o teu melhor amigo. Se tiveres tempo para o saberes. *** Powered by SuSE Linux 7.2 Professional Registered Linux
On Monday 01 October 2001 10:42 pm, J.Drews wrote:
On Monday 01 October 2001 04:35 pm, you wrote:
How does Linux deal with Nvidia video cards? I am thinking of getting a Dell laptop and they come with that card, so far as I can tell.
Hi Dennis:
I would not get a computer with a nVIDIA card. Here is why:
1) While nVIDIA cards do give excellent graphics they tend to screw up other applications like 3D drawings in Star Offices StarDraw. Also, screensavers sometimes malfunction.
2) nVIDIA cards sometimes causes hang on logout.
3) Certain applications, when run on an nVIDIA card, like Gtulpas and Xmms cause serious crashes.
4) You may not be able to return to your original session after switching to a virtual console.
5) Certain applications that use anti aliased fonts (GV) do not work properly, if an nVIDIA card is installed.
6) nVIDIA drivers are not part of the SuSE distribution; you have to download them and install them. A kernel patch is also required.
7) The provided software drivers are closed source so their can be no check, by XFree86.org, on whether they will work properly.
I had a nVIDIA card installed in my computer for 18 months. Whether I installed SuSE, Mandrake or RedHat made no difference. There was always some glitch. If nVIDIA could not provide satisfactory drivers in that 18 month period, they never will. nVIDIA is a serious gamming card. For instance, you can use your nVIDIA card to play video roulette, with Sax2, for hours on end! Video roulette is where you constantly reconfigure XF86Config in an attempt to get the pestiferous nVIDIA to work. Basically, if you like protracted configuration problems then nVIDIA is for you.
IMHO I would try and get an IBM laptop as they probably come with an ATI card. You should check for linux compatibility here. http://www.linuxcare.com/labs/certs/
A word of warning: If you buy a Dell laptop and then install Linux on it, you may not be able to get warranty support. That has been my experience and also the experience of a Mr. Mike Hall: http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3614/1/
What a load of subjective nonsense! Furthermore, you are incorrect on a number of points. SuSE 7.x supports nVidia out of the box. No kernel patch is required either. If you wish you can use YOU to download and install the latest 3D nVidia drivers (a kernel module is used). This required no knowledge of kernel hacking nor visits to the nVidia FTP site. It's a point and click exercise. Your sorry tale may have had some essence of truth a couple of years ago but not now. You give a warning about Dell and make reference to Linuxcare. Guess what? Dell and Linuxcare have partnered! See http://dell.linuxcare.com/ and http://www.linuxcare.com/labs/certs/C1F1.epl. Also, you should note that NVidia is working with the Linux/XFree86 community and provides high quality software for Linux systems. If you can only provide subjective and unhelpful advice (i.e. anecdotal drivel) don't bother. M -- Martin Webster <mwebster@ntlworld.com> Registered Linux User #230322 http://homepage.ntlworld.com/spider-monkey/
participants (18)
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Bruce Marshall -
Bryan Tyson -
Dennis J. Tuchler -
Derek Fountain -
Elton Machado -
Gary -
Gerhard den Hollander -
Herman Knief -
J.Drews -
Ken Hughes -
Mark Hounschell -
Martin Webster -
Rod C. Johnson -
Roger L.S.Griffiths BSc -
Scott Courtney -
Timothy Mason -
Tor Sigurdsson -
Tracer Bullet