As its a Alpha release, have you checked the "known issues" regarding the release? It may be a bug or a feature, you'll need to check

No, friend, I have checked with the latest ArchLinux distro - other distros have the same problem.... I think It's due to the new kernel. -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

What will happen after "sdX" reaches from sda to sdz ? i.e. if you have over 26 hard disks in your system ? -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

At 08:56 AM 4/15/2007, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

On 2007-04-14 16:07, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...

What will happen after "sdX" reaches from sda to sdz ? i.e. if you have over 26 hard disks in your system ?

If you have that many in your system, I think you should consider replacing some of them with much larger drives ;-)

THIS IS NOT A FLAME, but.... personally this change seriously makes me worry I have scripts and software that create drives with links to those in other systems as part of the security and backup routines I use, some are to scsi drives, some are ide and some sata, the drive type in most cases relates to the function performed on the site or spanning sites Before I can consider going to 10.3 :- I shall have to scan, amend, rewrite, binfile at least 20 scripts for cross connection, another 38 for backup and seven security plus workout how I get around the drive type and now limited drive identity\numbers problem and that's just the linux side, how my mini's deal with it I am yet to imagine, thankfully I don't have any mainframes any more. I also suspect it means some ten to twelve thousand dollars additional hardware needed per site, say a quarter of a million dollars plus extra at the four centres and spares of course. I wouldn't of minded the change if the old way worked as well (dual modes) until things were changed with a boot script "software switch" I'd also would have liked some warning, (and I suspect others in the same boat would also have,) well in advance this type of change was going to happen, surely someone was aware this major change was coming and could have put out a notice to users/programmers. It's not as if this is a minor change hda has been around since the ST408/512 drive chains were created It means I have at least 200 hours of work ahead in mapping out the changes needed, let alone arranging things like programming, testing, reviewing, issuing, checking...etc., say another hundred or so thousand dollars Well there goes my holiday this year again, and just as I thought things were finally starting to slow down. I am suppose to be semi-retired It also means 10.2 will have to last at least two years when we implement it at Christmas 07, replacing 8 Maybe we should think sled, but we don't have the money for both, we are ?suppose to be self sufficent and non-profit! scsijon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Also you could use symlinks... -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 4/15/07, scsijon wrote:

At 08:56 AM 4/15/2007, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...

On 2007-04-14 16:07, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...

What will happen after "sdX" reaches from sda to sdz ? i.e. if you have over 26 hard disks in your system ?

If you have that many in your system, I think you should consider replacing some of them with much larger drives ;-)

THIS IS NOT A FLAME, but....

personally this change seriously makes me worry

I have scripts and software that create drives with links to those in other systems as part of the security and backup routines I use, some are to scsi drives, some are ide and some sata, the drive type in most cases relates to the function performed on the site or spanning sites

Before I can consider going to 10.3 :- I shall have to scan, amend, rewrite, binfile at least 20 scripts for cross connection, another 38 for backup and seven security plus workout how I get around the drive type and now limited drive identity\numbers problem and that's just the linux side, how my mini's deal with it I am yet to imagine, thankfully I don't have any mainframes any more. I also suspect it means some ten to twelve thousand dollars additional hardware needed per site, say a quarter of a million dollars plus extra at the four centres and spares of course.

I wouldn't of minded the change if the old way worked as well (dual modes) until things were changed with a boot script "software switch"

I'd also would have liked some warning, (and I suspect others in the same boat would also have,) well in advance this type of change was going to happen, surely someone was aware this major change was coming and could have put out a notice to users/programmers. It's not as if this is a minor change hda has been around since the ST408/512 drive chains were created

It means I have at least 200 hours of work ahead in mapping out the changes needed, let alone arranging things like programming, testing, reviewing, issuing, checking...etc., say another hundred or so thousand dollars

Well there goes my holiday this year again, and just as I thought things were finally starting to slow down. I am suppose to be semi-retired

It also means 10.2 will have to last at least two years when we implement it at Christmas 07, replacing 8

Maybe we should think sled, but we don't have the money for both, we are ?suppose to be self sufficent and non-profit!

scsijon

I was just thinking about how a new OS release is going to cost you a huge amount of time and money. Basically the reason is you are using a Linux Enthusiasts distro as a datacenter solution which you are apparently investing millions of dollars of hardware/software/customization around. You should really evaluate SLES 10.0. It is expensive compared to OpenSUSE, but it is extremely cheap compared to what you describe. If you implemented it now you would have another 4 years or so of supported service. (iirc) Greg -- Greg Freemyer The Norcross Group Forensics for the 21st Century -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 14 April 2007 15:07, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

What will happen after "sdX" reaches from sda to sdz ? i.e. if you have over 26 hard disks in your system ?

The universe will implode. Please don't do that.

-- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 4/15/07, Greg Freemyer wrote:

On 4/14/07, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...

What will happen after "sdX" reaches from sda to sdz ? i.e. if you have over 26 hard disks in your system ?

I tried to put a bunch of 2-channel IDE controllers in a SUSE box a couple years ago.

OK, but some servers with massive SCSI arrays may have well over 26 disks... -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Alexey Eremenko wrote:

On 4/15/07, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On 4/14/07, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...

What will happen after "sdX" reaches from sda to sdz ? i.e. if you have over 26 hard disks in your system ?

I tried to put a bunch of 2-channel IDE controllers in a SUSE box a couple years ago.

OK, but some servers with massive SCSI arrays may have well over 26 disks...

From working at a large corporation, and having seen Linux devices (not SuSE in particular) having lots of SAN disks, the format goes to sdaa, sdab...

Michael -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 4/14/07, Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The Saturday 2007-04-14 at 20:12 -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

The biggest 2 changes I know of beyond naming convention are:

libata supports fewer partitions per drive (16?)

15, in fact. And I have 20, so I can't use that suse version.

- From the official announce a month ago:

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 17:09:04 +0100 From: Andreas Jaeger To: Subject: [opensuse-announce] openSUSE 10.3 Alpha2 Release

I'm glad to announce the second public alpha release of openSUSE 10.3.

...

We're using the libata stack now also for IDE controllers. Please do test that an update works and all files are changed automatically (libata uses /dev/sda for the first harddisk instead of /dev/hda). Disks with more than 15 partitions are not handled right now, we're still evaluating whether there is a good solution. to use the old scheme, boot with "hwprobe=-modules.pata". See below for Bug 250241 as well.

- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R.

Carlos, Within the last week I saw a posting on the libata list from Alan Cox that as soon as the HPA issue was addressed he considered the libata/pata subsystem feature equivalent with the old drivers/ide subsystem. He made no mention of the 15 partition limit, so if you think that it is a significant issue, you should say something. Alan is with RedHat, but he was the 2.4 drivers/ide maintainer (I think), and he has definitely been the person pushing the libata/pata move. You can post directly to "Linux-ide" I believe without subscribing. And the standard policy on the lkml lists is reply-all, so you should be in copy of all reply's. Greg -- Greg Freemyer The Norcross Group Forensics for the 21st Century -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2007-04-14 at 23:13 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

...

...

libata supports fewer partitions per drive (16?)

...

15, in fact. And I have 20, so I can't use that suse version.

Why not....

Because five partitions will not be seen. At worst, something like Yast could get confused and hose my disk. Andreas Jaeger told me in the Factory list to wait till they have a solution. Therefore, I'm waiting.

...

- From the official announce a month ago: to use the old scheme, boot with "hwprobe=-modules.pata".

The modules.pata scheme works for my 25 partition disks.

Why didn't you say so when I I was told not to even try? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGIgLmtTMYHG2NR9URAqnCAJ9buNTEMD1wruzopkvfe2c+hbTb3ACeMMRX 8RNgHw1qvijESbaK2MWsjKU= =vW/I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Should we, as a community, take some steps to ensure best experience for our Susers ? (SUSE users) :) One thing that comes to mind, is to symlink (or even hardlink?) sda block devices to hda files, so that suser's transition will be transparent.

I really think this is a non-issue; there is a long existing solution to this problem: LVM. Drives are scanned and assigned to volume groups dynamically. Use LVM.

This will NOT solve the 15-partitions problem, but this *will* save

I strongly suspect that 15 partitions per drives is *extremely* rare. Use LVM and you can carve up your disks as many ways as you want.

all the fstabs, backup scripts and other system software from braking with a new openSUSE release. This should be made as a backward-compatibility measure.

-- -- Adam Tauno Williams Network & Systems Administrator Consultant - http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com Developer - http://www.opengroupware.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 15 April 2007, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

LVM is a non-solution. I

Well said. The Church of LVM Saints seems to push its way to the front every time there is any issue involving disk. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2007-04-15 at 23:14 +0100, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

Should we, as a community, take some steps to ensure best experience for our Susers ? (SUSE users) :)

One thing that comes to mind, is to symlink (or even hardlink?) sda block devices to hda files, so that suser's transition will be transparent.

I'm sure that's being addressed. The fstab and grub will not break, at least. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGIryHtTMYHG2NR9URAvzBAJsFiT8uMT5el1D/q35kCI2s1HhjLgCbBC9S 1VSCpGN2sw+lPh+/JRVFt7o= =++z/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2007-04-15 at 20:59 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

On Sunday 15 April 2007 19:00, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

I'm sure that's being addressed. The fstab and grub will not break, at least.

The default fstab doesn't look like it was before in 10.3 Alpha. There is no /dev/sdX, but long disk name ending with part1,2,3 etc.

Like this one? /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3320620A_5QF2M56F-part15 I mount some of my partitions that way (in /etc/cryptotab), and some by label (in /etc/fstab): LABEL=320_boot1 /boot ext2 noatime,acl,user_xattr 0 0 both systems are independent of how or where the disk is mounted. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGJWRDtTMYHG2NR9URAmU5AJ9K0K++EIiQPE5iZxjTgka4sC5O2ACgj/VZ gnuZCGo3qS4odONKdDPtxBM= =8qG6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 18 April 2007 20:03, scsijon wrote:

At 10:20 AM 4/18/2007, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The Sunday 2007-04-15 at 20:59 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

...

On Sunday 15 April 2007 19:00, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

I'm sure that's being addressed. The fstab and grub will not break, at least.

The default fstab doesn't look like it was before in 10.3 Alpha. There is no /dev/sdX, but long disk name ending with part1,2,3 etc.

Like this one?

/dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3320620A_5QF2M56F-part15

I mount some of my partitions that way (in /etc/cryptotab), and some by label (in /etc/fstab):

LABEL=320_boot1 /boot ext2 noatime,acl,user_xattr 0 0

both systems are independent of how or where the disk is mounted.

- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R.

Carlos (and others (?aj)), can you check / could you check / have you checked?

if you had the drive listed above die and had to use a new drive and reload from a backup (simple to do to here)

?would the id part "5QF2M56F" have to be changed (I suspect this is the drive's internal I.D.) for it to work?

By now you should have used YaST to include drive in system and you have exact naming already in a fstab, but to avoid problems with backup scripts, I would use second form LABEL= as all you have to do is to write label to a new drive, format it and it will be ready for restore. ... -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

At 08:47 PM 4/19/2007, Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The Thursday 2007-04-19 at 11:03 +1000, scsijon wrote:

...

...

/dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3320620A_5QF2M56F-part15

...

Carlos (and others (?aj)), can you check / could you check / have you checked?

if you had the drive listed above die

and had to use a new drive

and reload from a backup (simple to do to here)

?would the id part "5QF2M56F" have to be changed (I suspect this is the drive's internal I.D.) for it to work?

Yes, that's correct. The "ST3320620A" above is the disk model (seagate st etc), the second word I guess it is a serial number.

If that worries you, then use labels instead - but in that case, you can mount two partitions with the same label in order to copy data from one to the other.

...

It looks like a good additional level for security but does worry me for device failure rework.

Depends on what your procedure is.

The label is dependent on the formated filesystem, it is saved somewhere there. If a partition is badly hosed, the label is lost: I know because it happened to me.

The disk ID is more resistant, and it is usable in the cryptotab file (label mounting doesn't work there).

- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76

thanks scsijon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 17 April 2007 19:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Sunday 2007-04-15 at 20:59 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

...

On Sunday 15 April 2007 19:00, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

I'm sure that's being addressed. The fstab and grub will not break, at least.

The default fstab doesn't look like it was before in 10.3 Alpha. There is no /dev/sdX, but long disk name ending with part1,2,3 etc.

Like this one?

/dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3320620A_5QF2M56F-part15

I mount some of my partitions that way (in /etc/cryptotab), and some by label (in /etc/fstab):

LABEL=320_boot1 /boot ext2 noatime,acl,user_xattr 0 0

both systems are independent of how or where the disk is mounted.

Yes. The first one is default, but I changed it to something that I know how to handle :-) -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon April 16 2007, Andreas Jaeger scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:

"Alexey Eremenko" writes:

...

hi all !

Just installed openSUSE 10.3 Alpha3 with the new kernel 2.6.21-rc... The problem is that all my IDE hard disks are displayed as "sda"...

Why is this?

Did you read my announcement at all?

Call for Testing ================

* libata for IDE devices

We're using the libata stack now also for IDE controllers. Please do test that an update works and all files are changed automatically (libata uses /dev/sda for the first harddisk instead of /dev/hda). Disks with more than 15 partitions are not handled right now, we're still evaluating whether there is a good solution. to use the old scheme, boot with "hwprobe=-modules.pata".

Andreas Andreas, You were expecting people to read the documentation ??? Silly, no one EVER reads that stuff... ;-)

How many timesdo we have the same stupid *discussion*about the need for hard copies of documentation vs, "just get rid of it all, I never read any of that stuff, its a waste of money to write and print it. " The two sides of this aurgume... uh, no, rather say disCUSSion , which by now borders on religious zealotry. ( Emphasis on "cussing" intended, as it often falls just short of what the list gods will tolerate for language. ) I suspect a lot of the folks who took up your offer of really early software that needs testing ( alpha, let alone betas ), didn't even notice the way you described the items. In some ways you probably get a better cross section of *real life* users testing it. Of course this sort of users wasn't what you were looking for .Those that just want the very latest, hottest, most far out from the center as they can get.. and there will be many of them who send you strange reports of broken this or that pieces. I thought your announcement represented exactly what you were looking for in testers. But, you forgot a universal constant of software. "Nobody reads the documentation" Except perhaps one other person,in the world, and me. No matter what documentation you use, nor what you say when you let it leave your hand, will in any way prevent people in the future, when your products go gold again, complaining bout strange things you weren't even concerned w/. From the "this software burned my house down" to "what is this software supposed to *do* ? " All variants of user remarks. -- j I've lived in the real world enough, we're all here because we ain't all there. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

jfweber@gilweber.com writes:

You were expecting people to read the documentation ???

No, not really ;-).

Silly, no one EVER reads that stuff... ;-)

I know...

[...] Of course this sort of users wasn't what you were looking for .Those that just want the very latest, hottest, most far out from the center as they can get.. and there will be many of them who send you strange reports of broken this or that pieces.

I thought your announcement represented exactly what you were looking for in testers. But, you forgot a universal constant of software. "Nobody reads the documentation" Except perhaps one other person,in the world, and me.

No matter what documentation you use, nor what you say when you let it leave your hand, will in any way prevent people in the future, when your products go gold again, complaining bout strange things you weren't even concerned w/. From the "this software burned my house down" to "what is this software supposed to *do* ? " All variants of user remarks.

If you have a solution for this, I'm willing to hear it. So far I can only try to release working software, calling it loud ALPHA, and pointing to the documentation so that those who complain *might* check next time ;-). Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2007-04-16 at 09:19 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

Did you read my announcement at all?

Call for Testing ================

* libata for IDE devices

We're using the libata stack now also for IDE controllers. Please do test that an update works and all files are changed automatically (libata uses /dev/sda for the first harddisk instead of /dev/hda). Disks with more than 15 partitions are not handled right now, we're still evaluating whether there is a good solution. to use the old scheme, boot with "hwprobe=-modules.pata".

Question. With "hwprobe=-modules.pata", are more than 15 partitions supported? If yes, then, Q #2: When there are more than 15 partitions, will this situation be detected and then automatically activate "hwprobe=-modules.pata", or do we have to add that manually when booting the install dvd? At least till a better, definitive solution is found. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGJWdRtTMYHG2NR9URAjsbAJ9Dxwmg6K9BiOQ/or86RaAsiGa+7QCfRBB9 kR5WD36qSIOhiVVKO2uLeE4= =yEev -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Question. With "hwprobe=-modules.pata", are more than 15 partitions supported?

If yes, then, Q #2:

Yes.

When there are more than 15 partitions, will this situation be detected and then automatically activate "hwprobe=-modules.pata", or do we have to

Interesting idea. Steffen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org