On 2015-01-08 14:46, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Roger Oberholtzer <> [01-08-15 03:07]:

...

I have been looking at the Tumbleweed installation docs and don't see any reference to which openSUSE releases are ok to upgrade to Tumbleweed. Perhaps most recent releases are okay? But how about 12.1 or 12.3?

It should be documented, and I think it was, that the intention is to upgrade from the latest.

From experience and what I have read on the lists, upgrading is only *advised* for one release to the next, so going on that you would need to step thru the releases. *But* several have had success jumping two releases. Upgrading from 12.3 might work, key being backup-backup-backup.

You can jump some releases when using the offline upgrade method (boot dvd, choose upgrade). Obviously you can not do this for tumbleweed. Jumping releases with an online upgrade (zypper dup) is certainly unsupported. But some have done it. I would not try. One problem is that the rpm and zypper toolchains (including databases) may be different on the target release. When this happens, typically those tools get an online update before the next openSUSE release is published, so that both tool sets are compatible, and zypper can handle installing packages from the next release without crashing. The trick, when jumping releases, seems to be to upgrade zypper and rpm toolchains before running the zypper dup. But there could be other "catastrophic" changes between releases that are not catered for when jumping. You have to be careful, read mail lists reports, release notes, etc. My advise: When in doubt if you can do it, don't :-)

Personally, I believe that soon there will only be two releases, Evergreen and Tumbleweed.

Not possible. Evergreen needs an stable released version as base. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 01/08/2015 10:57 AM, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

This is as I expected. It would also be interesting how long one can go between Tumbleweed updates.

I just went 4 weeks and had no issues with the latest dup.

I ask this because we have measurement systems that are on the road most of the year. They start life with an openSUSE that we create with KIWI that has just what we want so the systems are the same. We want to keep them running releases that are still supported. Currently we reinstall the systems every year or so (when there is an openSUSE release that seems like it addresses our needs). This happens in the off season. Getting each system set up again is always a bit of work. Also, we would like non-Linux-expert customers in other countries to be able to do this with their systems. So we are looking at our options.

Why not use 13.1 which will be the "new" evergreen version. That way you will not have major updates to deal with for a few years. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Our current openSUSE OEM build is 13.1. But I know that will be EOL at some point. We have some older systems that will be updated this winter. As to sending disks: we sometimes do this. The trick is that some systems have unusual hardware setups. Testing the new install is good thing. It really depends on the skills we feel the customer has and the effort they want to spend. Our own systems are always properly maintained ;) Our current idea is to determine exactly which system config files we should copy. Then do an install, and replace these files. Over the years, we have noticed that the files we change seem to be rather stable. On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 5:11 PM, jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:

Le 08/01/2015 16:57, Roger Oberholtzer a écrit :

...

Also, we would like non-Linux-expert customers in other countries to be able to do this with their systems. So we are looking at our options.

my guess: if the system is not connected to the net, never updete it...

if not, make a system update yourself (in your home) and send it as ssd copy, small ssd are cheap, very fast and easy to post (light)

jdd

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-- Roger Oberholtzer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

We don't really like having our customers do this kind of thing. So it typically happens when we get them to schedule service. But some systems never get sent in for service. One reason we like to keep systems up-to-date (i.e., a OS release no more than two or so years old) is that is makes it easier for us to maintain our own software releases. The main thing is that the versions of the various libraries that we use that come with the OS change over time, and often in incompatible ways. So we find ourselves maintain an installable for each OS version. The use of KIWI to make our own openSUSE install as an OEM image has been a significant help. But that is always done as a destructive install. We have a running openSUSE with all the packages exactly as we want and many things configured within 10-15 minutes of unpacking the new computer without worry that something was selected/installed differently. But we have to configure all the system-specific things again. Using something like Tumbleweed to do incremental updates and thus keep the system configuration would be a step forward. Or so we have been thinking. I suspect our solution will eventually be to stay wiyh our KIWI/OEM images and keep as much of the current config as we can on our own, do our destructive install, and then put back what we can. Of course, this will require coordination between releases. Our settings are mainly related to: - Disk layout. Where is /home? How many additional data disks are there? - Network interface configuration. This is a big one. We often have 6 Ethernet interfaces with various alias and subnets. So much of our equipment/transducers are ethernet based. BTW, the recent interface naming method change have been a real blessing for us. Talk about disaster if the interfaces came up in a different order. - System services like dhcp, tftp, NFS, AoE/vblade. If we keep the config files related to this and put back as many as we can, life is easier. Most everything else is managed by our KIWI/OEM image. Our plan is something like: 1. Put in a USB stick and click on our ICON that says something like "Keep System Settings" that makes an archive on the USB stick of various system configuration flies. This can also be done when the system layout changes just in case. We could even have the customer then send us a copy of the archive so we can see that it is ok before they proceed. It should be rather small. 2. Install the KIWI/OEM image. 3. Put in a USB stick and click on our ICON that says something like "Get System Settings" that reads the archive from step 1 and puts back whatever file it thinks are appropriate. Step 3 is the most difficult one. But we really are trying to limit the things we really need to maintain across releases. I think it is doable. If we ever get to the point where a customer can do this is another question. So many options. On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 5:36 PM, jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:

Le 08/01/2015 17:24, Roger Oberholtzer a écrit :

...

As to sending disks: we sometimes do this. The trick is that some systems have unusual hardware setups. Testing the new install is good thing. It really depends on the skills we feel the customer has and the effort they want to spend. Our own systems are always properly maintained ;)

sure :-)

phone call and ssh connection :-)

I can't see other way. I do not really trust customers :-)

jdd

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-- Roger Oberholtzer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Our method with KIWI/OEM images do not require that the vehicles are connected to the internet. Since we don't like the customers messing with the Ethernet setup, we would prefer to keep it this way. When we have had need to access systems remotely, getting clients to let ssh through their firewalls and other security doodads has been a hassle. On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 9:32 AM, jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:

Le 09/01/2015 09:00, Roger Oberholtzer a écrit :

...

1. Put in a USB stick and click on our ICON that says something like "Keep System Settings" that makes an archive on the USB stick

I don't get if the machines are connected to the net. If yes, this can be done through ssh

...

3. Put in a USB stick and click on our ICON that says something like "Get System Settings" that reads the archive from step 1 and puts back whatever file it thinks are appropriate.

Step 3 is the most difficult one. But we really are trying to limit

may be what could be done, if internet is available is send a live dvd/usb stick to be connected to the system *and* to you, to allow sort of "recovery console" accessible by you.

the user interaction should them be only boot he device. The net connection could only temporary, for the update

but It's only guesses

good luck :-)

jdd

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-- Roger Oberholtzer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org