[opensuse] Update applet question

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Marc Chamberlin

16 Jun 2019 16 Jun '19

00:00

I am running OpenSuSE Leap 15.0 and have been pretty diligent in keeping it updated. Why in the world is the update applet telling me today that I need 1442 updates!? I am a bit scared to tell it to go ahead, thoughts? Marc... -- --... ...-- .----. ... -.. . .-- .- --... .--. -..- .-- -- .- .-. -.-. Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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Felix Miata

16 Jun 16 Jun

00:15

Marc Chamberlin composed on 2019-06-15 17:00 (UTC-0700):

...

I am running OpenSuSE Leap 15.0 and have been pretty diligent in keeping it updated. Why in the world is the update applet telling me today that I need 1442 updates!? I am a bit scared to tell it to go ahead, thoughts?

Did you recently use 1-click to install something? If so, the result was probably inclusion of a Tumbleweed repository scrambling your system. Check with YaST or zypper lr. If any TW is enabled, disable or remove it, then refresh before trying to apply any updates. You may need to use zypper dup to repair existing damage. If damage is too severe, you might need to do an upgrade installation, or just go ahead and upgrade to 15.1. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Dave Howorth

00:30

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:15:26 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:

...

Did you recently use 1-click to install something? If so, the result was probably inclusion of a Tumbleweed repository scrambling your system.

Ouch! Do you know if there's a bug report for this? There should be since it seems to be a quick way to break systems. 1-click should check what version it's installing to, no? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

00:47

* Dave Howorth [06-15-19 20:31]:

...

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:15:26 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:

...
Did you recently use 1-click to install something? If so, the result was probably inclusion of a Tumbleweed repository scrambling your system.

Ouch! Do you know if there's a bug report for this? There should be since it seems to be a quick way to break systems. 1-click should check what version it's installing to, no?

let's not start again with the problems with 1-click-install. there is a problem if one selects the incorrect openSUSE version. <user> error. which can happen in many places. emphasis: a <user> should be capable of choosing the correct openSUSE version he is running! it's not rocket science and we are not pre-school children. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

02:19

On 16/06/2019 02.47, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Dave Howorth <> [06-15-19 20:31]:

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On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:15:26 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:

...
Did you recently use 1-click to install something? If so, the result was probably inclusion of a Tumbleweed repository scrambling your system.

Ouch! Do you know if there's a bug report for this? There should be since it seems to be a quick way to break systems. 1-click should check what version it's installing to, no?

let's not start again with the problems with 1-click-install. there is a problem if one selects the incorrect openSUSE version. <user> error. which can happen in many places. emphasis: a <user> should be capable of choosing the correct openSUSE version he is running! it's not rocket science and we are not pre-school children.

No. When there are many people that hit the same problem after using that method, the method has a problem. The 1-click-app whatever should check the current version of the system by reading /etc/os-release. Don't blame the user. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Dave Howorth

02:26

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:47:31 -0400 Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Dave Howorth [06-15-19 20:31]:

...
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:15:26 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:

...
Did you recently use 1-click to install something? If so, the result was probably inclusion of a Tumbleweed repository scrambling your system.

Ouch! Do you know if there's a bug report for this? There should be since it seems to be a quick way to break systems. 1-click should check what version it's installing to, no?

let's not start again with the problems with 1-click-install. there is a problem if one selects the incorrect openSUSE version. <user> error. which can happen in many places. emphasis: a <user> should be capable of choosing the correct openSUSE version he is running! it's not rocket science and we are not pre-school children.

There shouldn't be a problem, though, should there? The 1-click software should be perfectly capable of discovering the value of VERSION in /etc/os-release (or any similar mechanism), comparing it against the proposed installation and either refusing or at the very least asking the user to confirm their intentions. The very fact that it just caught Marc and that at least three regulars know all about this problem, which proves this is a repeating problem, shows that it needs fixing. Or do you just like opportunities to prove how smart you are? :P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

02:39

* Dave Howorth [06-15-19 22:27]:

...

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:47:31 -0400 Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Dave Howorth [06-15-19 20:31]:

...
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:15:26 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:

...
Did you recently use 1-click to install something? If so, the result was probably inclusion of a Tumbleweed repository scrambling your system.

Ouch! Do you know if there's a bug report for this? There should be since it seems to be a quick way to break systems. 1-click should check what version it's installing to, no?

let's not start again with the problems with 1-click-install. there is a problem if one selects the incorrect openSUSE version. <user> error. which can happen in many places. emphasis: a <user> should be capable of choosing the correct openSUSE version he is running! it's not rocket science and we are not pre-school children.

There shouldn't be a problem, though, should there? The 1-click software should be perfectly capable of discovering the value of VERSION in /etc/os-release (or any similar mechanism), comparing it against the proposed installation and either refusing or at the very least asking the user to confirm their intentions.

The very fact that it just caught Marc and that at least three regulars know all about this problem, which proves this is a repeating problem, shows that it needs fixing.

Marc admitted he installed a package anyway that he *knew* was not for his system. one can expect problems performing such actions. but it was not a mistake except in his judgement.

...

Or do you just like opportunities to prove how smart you are? :P

no just like to hear you make smart-ass statements. the tool only performed the action the <user> intended and full well knew or should have know it was incorrect. no amount of engineering can make a tool *completely* safe from anyone who chooses to employe it incorrectly. don't you get tired of answering "Do you really want to do that"? probably to the point that you completely disregard it. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

03:05

On 06/15/2019 07:47 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

let's not start again with the problems with 1-click-install. there is a problem if one selects the incorrect openSUSE version. <user> error. which can happen in many places. emphasis: a <user> should be capable of choosing the correct openSUSE version he is running! it's not rocket science and we are not pre-school children.

Not a dig, but that seems to fly in the face of the programming idiom of always validate user input -- why? Users do really stupid things, or a cat may have pounced on the mouse or stepped on the keyboard. It seems like a minimal parsing of /etc/os-release would be in order to prevent such a thing. On the flip side, I wholly agree that with point-and-click, the dummy behind the mouse should be able to click on the right box, but that's not a reason for not validating the release before proceeding with the install. A quick check of the release and version compared before install with: rel=$(sed -n '/^ID=/s/^.*=["]*$[^"]*$.*$/\1/p' /etc/os-release) ver=$(sed -n '/^VERSION_ID=/s/^[^"]*["]$[^"]*$.*$/\1/p' /etc/os-release) should do it. Since the file is world-readable, it could be sent in a post command. If either don't match what the 1-click install is supposed to be for, just abort the install. As it sits, the software.opensuse.org somehow already guesses the version when you start searching for packages. At that point the info is already on the website-side of the transaction. So long as the 1-click knows what version it is supposed to be for, then the comparison should be trivial. Don't know the backdrop of the "let's not start again", but it doesn't seem insurmountable. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

03:12

New subject: [opensuse] 1-click enabled TW repo on Leap again (was: Update applet question)

Dave Howorth composed on 2019-06-16 01:30 (UTC+0100):

...

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:15:26 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:

...

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Did you recently use 1-click to install something? If so, the result was probably inclusion of a Tumbleweed repository scrambling your system.

...

Ouch! Do you know if there's a bug report for this? There should be since it seems to be a quick way to break systems. 1-click should check what version it's installing to, no? Report, not AFAIK. Should check, yes.

Forum threads addressing 1-click enabling a TW repo for a Leap user are not uncommon lately: https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/535681-Leap-15-system-broken-by-o... 24 April https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/536096-Applied-recommended-update... 24 May https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/536162-2090-updates-Leap-15-0 28 May <https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/536301-Tumbleweed-stuck-on-boot-a... 7> June https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/536343-new-to-openSuse-former-cor... 10 June This very thread: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2019-06/msg00355.html -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Andrei Borzenkov

05:16

16.06.2019 3:30, Dave Howorth пишет:

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On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:15:26 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:

...
Did you recently use 1-click to install something? If so, the result was probably inclusion of a Tumbleweed repository scrambling your system.

Ouch! Do you know if there's a bug report for this? There should be since it seems to be a quick way to break systems. 1-click should check what version it's installing to, no?

1-click install does check what version it is installing to if 1-click metadata include target version for which it was published. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Marc Chamberlin

06:12

On 6/15/19 10:16 PM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

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16.06.2019 3:30, Dave Howorth пишет:

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On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:15:26 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:

...
Did you recently use 1-click to install something? If so, the result was probably inclusion of a Tumbleweed repository scrambling your system. Ouch! Do you know if there's a bug report for this? There should be since it seems to be a quick way to break systems. 1-click should check what version it's installing to, no?

1-click install does check what version it is installing to if 1-click metadata include target version for which it was published.

Lots of preceding interesting discussion deleted.... Uh Being as how I am the "dummy behind the mouse" that did this one-click screw-up, I guess I would like to ask a question... I from time to time run into bugs (we all do) and a lot of the time the "fix" is to get a later version of the software/package. MariaDB and Certbot were both cases in point where I had to go find/install a newer version than the one that came with the distro... SO How AM I suppose to do that without screwing up the rest of my system? Inquiring dumb user minds want to know! Or are you gurus suggesting that each and every time we hit a bug, that has a fix in a later version of software, we are suppose to upgrade the entire OS? OUCH would be the right phrase! Marc... -- --... ...-- .----. ... -.. . .-- .- --... .--. -..- .-- -- .- .-. -.-. Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Andrei Borzenkov

06:39

16.06.2019 9:12, Marc Chamberlin пишет:

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On 6/15/19 10:16 PM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

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16.06.2019 3:30, Dave Howorth пишет:

...
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:15:26 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:

...
Did you recently use 1-click to install something? If so, the result was probably inclusion of a Tumbleweed repository scrambling your system. Ouch! Do you know if there's a bug report for this? There should be since it seems to be a quick way to break systems. 1-click should check what version it's installing to, no?

1-click install does check what version it is installing to if 1-click metadata include target version for which it was published.

Lots of preceding interesting discussion deleted....

Uh Being as how I am the "dummy behind the mouse" that did this one-click screw-up, I guess I would like to ask a question... I from time to time run into bugs (we all do) and a lot of the time the "fix" is to get a later version of the software/package. MariaDB and Certbot were both cases in point where I had to go find/install a newer version than the one that came with the distro... SO How AM I suppose to do that without screwing up the rest of my system?

You open bug report and it is up to maintainer to either backport the fix or update to newer version. If you need it very urgently and cannot wait until update becomes available you install new version built for your distribution. Both packages you named are available for Leap 15.1.

...

Inquiring dumb user minds want to know! Or are you gurus suggesting that each and every time we hit a bug, that has a fix in a later version of software, we are suppose to upgrade the entire OS? OUCH would be the right phrase!

Flame baits rarely facilitate constructive discussion and useful replies. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Marc Chamberlin

07:29

On 6/15/19 11:39 PM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

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16.06.2019 9:12, Marc Chamberlin пишет:

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On 6/15/19 10:16 PM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

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16.06.2019 3:30, Dave Howorth пишет:

...
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:15:26 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:

...
Did you recently use 1-click to install something? If so, the result was probably inclusion of a Tumbleweed repository scrambling your system. Ouch! Do you know if there's a bug report for this? There should be since it seems to be a quick way to break systems. 1-click should check what version it's installing to, no?

1-click install does check what version it is installing to if 1-click metadata include target version for which it was published.

Lots of preceding interesting discussion deleted....

Uh Being as how I am the "dummy behind the mouse" that did this one-click screw-up, I guess I would like to ask a question... I from time to time run into bugs (we all do) and a lot of the time the "fix" is to get a later version of the software/package. MariaDB and Certbot were both cases in point where I had to go find/install a newer version than the one that came with the distro... SO How AM I suppose to do that without screwing up the rest of my system? You open bug report and it is up to maintainer to either backport the fix or update to newer version.

If you need it very urgently and cannot wait until update becomes available you install new version built for your distribution. Both packages you named are available for Leap 15.1.

...
Inquiring dumb user minds want to know! Or are you gurus suggesting that each and every time we hit a bug, that has a fix in a later version of software, we are suppose to upgrade the entire OS? OUCH would be the right phrase!

Flame baits rarely facilitate constructive discussion and useful replies.

Sorry Andrie, I was speaking in jest, not meant to be serious. I understand that dependencies are often hellishly difficult to test and verify. And the challenges in doing back ports is a lot of work and should only be done for serious bugs. While I concur with some of the discussions surrounding doing a simple OS version test and giving a warning to the unwary user, I also wonder if it is a good idea for 1-Click installs to add/upgrade and enable software repositories automatically as well, without at least raising a warning flag about the effects of doing so. I would have been happy to have the repository added to my YaST database, but would have preferred it was added disabled since I am more interested in getting my immediate problem fixed, but not necessarily interested in getting automatic future updates to either the software package that I installed or to any other software packages in that same repository. Especially since this Factory/Tumbleweed repo is rather special and a risky one. That is effectively what I have now done with the Tumbleweed repository that was added, I got what I needed out of it, and now I have disabled it as I was advised to. Anywise I knew there was a risk I was taking when I install later versions of software packages in order to fix a problem I am experiencing. I just never thought that doing an install of a couple items would lead the update applet to want to upgrade my entire system! Others have apparently been bitten by this and were immediately helpful in pointing out the cause, now I too will join the ranks of the bitten and have learned about this uh "feature"! ;-) Again sincere apologies... Marc... -- --... ...-- .----. ... -.. . .-- .- --... .--. -..- .-- -- .- .-. -.-. Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Andrei Borzenkov

07:38

16.06.2019 10:29, Marc Chamberlin пишет:

...

I also wonder if it is a good idea for 1-Click installs to add/upgrade and enable software repositories automatically as well, without at least raising a warning flag about the effects of doing so.

If 1-click install is used as intended - to add extra software from third party sources - I would say "yes". If user needs some external software, it is expected that user is also interested in keeping it up to date.

...

I would have been happy to have the repository added to my YaST database, but would have preferred it was added disabled since I am more interested in getting my immediate problem fixed, but not necessarily interested in getting automatic future updates to either the software package that I installed or to any other software packages in that same repository. Especially since this Factory/Tumbleweed repo is rather special and a risky one.

Again - both updated packages you needed do exist for your distribution version and also as 1-click install if you insist on it.

...

That is effectively what I have now done with the Tumbleweed repository that was added, I got what I needed out of it, and now I have disabled it as I was advised to.

Anywise I knew there was a risk I was taking when I install later versions of software packages in order to fix a problem I am experiencing. I just never thought that doing an install of a couple items would lead the update applet to want to upgrade my entire system! Others have apparently been bitten by this and were immediately helpful in pointing out the cause, now I too will join the ranks of the bitten and have learned about this uh "feature"! ;-)

Again sincere apologies... Marc...

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

jdd＠dodin.org

07:12

Le 16/06/2019 à 08:12, Marc Chamberlin a écrit :

...

"fix" is to get a later version of the software/package. MariaDB and Certbot were both cases in point where I had to go find/install a newer version than the one that came with the distro... SO How AM I suppose to do that without screwing up the rest of my system? Inquiring dumb user minds want to know!

most of the time I had to do this I could find an obs version for my own distro. It's not perfect, but better than using tw one. may be it lacks a way to say "install and update this software *and only this one* fro the given repo" or is there a way to do so I miss? thanks jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

07:45

Marc Chamberlin wrote:

...

Uh Being as how I am the "dummy behind the mouse" that did this one-click screw-up, I guess I would like to ask a question... I from time to time run into bugs (we all do) and a lot of the time the "fix" is to get a later version of the software/package. MariaDB and Certbot were both cases in point where I had to go find/install a newer version than the one that came with the distro.

FWIW - on Leap 15.0, I have not had to do that, for neither. I'm still running certbot on opensuse 13.1, but it has begun to ask "Please upgrade to a 2.7.x release that supports hmac.compare_digest as soon as possible.". I'll be upgrading that VM to 15.1, very soon. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (16.1°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

17 Jun 17 Jun

03:02

On 06/16/2019 01:12 AM, Marc Chamberlin wrote:

...

Uh Being as how I am the "dummy behind the mouse" that did this one-click screw-up, I guess I would like to ask a question... I from time to time run into bugs (we all do) and a lot of the time the "fix" is to get a later version of the software/package. MariaDB and Certbot were both cases in point where I had to go find/install a newer version than the one that came with the distro... SO How AM I suppose to do that without screwing up the rest of my system? Inquiring dumb user minds want to know! Or are you gurus suggesting that each and every time we hit a bug, that has a fix in a later version of software, we are suppose to upgrade the entire OS? OUCH would be the right phrase!

Marc...

(1) Find it already made in one of the user repos: The way you used to do it was to search the user repositories for someone who had built the newer version for your distro. In the past webpin provided the search. With 42.3, software.o.o doesn't work. But apparently with 15.1 software.o.o will search the user repos. (2) Rebuild the rpm yourself with the newer source package: Otherwise, go download the src.rpm for the package you need. (make sure you have the rpmbuild package installed). Install the src.rpm (as you, not root). It will install the contents of the src.rpm under ~/rpmbuild. Download the latest source for your package (the tarball), put it in ~/rpmbuild/SOURCES. Edit the ~/rpmbuild/SPECS/yourpackage.spec file. (do a quick check on any 'patch' files and make sure they are still applicable for the new source you downloaded) Change the "Version:" to match the new tarball, reset "Release:" to 1.0. Now rebuild the rpm using the new source with rpmbuild -ba ~/rpmbuild/SPECS/yourpackage.spec (note any errors, Edit the ~/rpmbuild/SPECS/yourpackage.spec file, repeat until the build succeeds) New rpm is in ~/rpmbuild/RPMS/x86_64 -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Ken Schneider - openSUSE

18:41

On 6/16/19 11:02 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

On 06/16/2019 01:12 AM, Marc Chamberlin wrote:

...
Uh Being as how I am the "dummy behind the mouse" that did this one-click screw-up, I guess I would like to ask a question... I from time to time run into bugs (we all do) and a lot of the time the "fix" is to get a later version of the software/package. MariaDB and Certbot were both cases in point where I had to go find/install a newer version than the one that came with the distro... SO How AM I suppose to do that without screwing up the rest of my system? Inquiring dumb user minds want to know! Or are you gurus suggesting that each and every time we hit a bug, that has a fix in a later version of software, we are suppose to upgrade the entire OS? OUCH would be the right phrase!

Marc...

(1) Find it already made in one of the user repos:

The way you used to do it was to search the user repositories for someone who had built the newer version for your distro. In the past webpin provided the search. With 42.3, software.o.o doesn't work. But apparently with 15.1 software.o.o will search the user repos.

You can also use 'osc se(arch) which also search all of the user repo's right from the command line. Requires a login account which happens to be the same as your login for the mailing lists. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

18 Jun 18 Jun

22:52

* Marc Chamberlin [06-18-19 18:42]:

...

On 6/15/19 10:16 PM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...
16.06.2019 3:30, Dave Howorth пишет:

...
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:15:26 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:

...
Did you recently use 1-click to install something? If so, the result was probably inclusion of a Tumbleweed repository scrambling your system. Ouch! Do you know if there's a bug report for this? There should be since it seems to be a quick way to break systems. 1-click should check what version it's installing to, no?

1-click install does check what version it is installing to if 1-click metadata include target version for which it was published.

Lots of preceding interesting discussion deleted....

Uh Being as how I am the "dummy behind the mouse" that did this one-click screw-up, I guess I would like to ask a question... I from time to time run into bugs (we all do) and a lot of the time the "fix" is to get a later version of the software/package. MariaDB and Certbot were both cases in point where I had to go find/install a newer version than the one that came with the distro... SO How AM I suppose to do that without screwing up the rest of my system? Inquiring dumb user minds want to know!

no problem about installing newer versions if available, but they need to be compatible with or designated for your openSUSE version. ie: something for Tw is *probably* not compatible with Leap 15.0 and something for Leap 15.1 not with 15.0. and frequently there are packages built by individuals which applicable but caution is advised.

...

Or are you gurus suggesting that each and every time we hit a bug, that has a fix in a later version of software, we are suppose to upgrade the entire OS? OUCH would be the right phrase!

I don't believe *anyone* is advocating that, but situations do exist where it is advisable. nothing is cut&dried, except you are on much safer ground constricting yourself to packages built for your openSUSE version. would you consider installing a debian package on you openSUSE system? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Marc Chamberlin

16 Jun 16 Jun

01:15

On 6/15/19 5:15 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

...

Marc Chamberlin composed on 2019-06-15 17:00 (UTC-0700):

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I am running OpenSuSE Leap 15.0 and have been pretty diligent in keeping it updated. Why in the world is the update applet telling me today that I need 1442 updates!? I am a bit scared to tell it to go ahead, thoughts? Did you recently use 1-click to install something? If so, the result was probably inclusion of a Tumbleweed repository scrambling your system. Check with YaST or zypper lr. If any TW is enabled, disable or remove it, then refresh before trying to apply any updates. You may need to use zypper dup to repair existing damage. If damage is too severe, you might need to do an upgrade installation, or just go ahead and upgrade to 15.1.

Thanks Felix, yep that's the problem... I run LetsEncrypt/Certbot's certbot-auto script in self-upgrade mode to generate certificates for my Apache2 web server. And it was getting out of sync with the versions of python2-certbot and python2-certbot-dns-rfc2136 that comes from the OpenSuSE 15.0 repository (which I need for creating keystore files for my Apache James email server), so I had to upgrade the python versions. I found a later version of these in the OpenSuSE repositories but they were in the Tumbleweed/Factory repos. So yeah I did a 1-click install on them. Made my certificate upgrades happy campers but now I see that had an unfortunate side effect. The system seems just fine except for this hiccup of wanting to upgrade the rest of my system apparently. Is this what is called the tail wagging the dog? I have disabled the Tumbleweed/Factory repository, hopefully that will quiet the update applet.... Marc... -- --... ...-- .----. ... -.. . .-- .- --... .--. -..- .-- -- .- .-. -.-. Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

02:17

On 16/06/2019 03.15, Marc Chamberlin wrote:

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On 6/15/19 5:15 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

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I have disabled the Tumbleweed/Factory repository, hopefully that will quiet the update applet....

Please do: zypper lr --details > somefile.txt and attach the somefile.txt to a reply here. Then we can have a look and tell you what to do. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Marc Chamberlin

05:58

On 6/15/19 7:17 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 16/06/2019 03.15, Marc Chamberlin wrote:

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On 6/15/19 5:15 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

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I have disabled the Tumbleweed/Factory repository, hopefully that will quiet the update applet.... Please do:

zypper lr --details > somefile.txt

and attach the somefile.txt to a reply here. Then we can have a look and tell you what to do.

I can do that Carlos, and thank you for helping... (something bellyached when I tried to attach so I will copy paste instead. Hope the format is OK) Some of these are for things that I had to get later versions of software, for example I had to get a later version of MariaDB because there was a bug in the one that came with OpenSuSE 15.0. Repository priorities are without effect. All enabled repositories share the same priority. # | Alias | Name | Enabled | GPG Check | Refresh | Priority | Type | URI | Service ---+-------------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+---------+-----------+---------+----------+--------+---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+-------- 1 | download.nvidia.com-leap | nVidia Graphics Drivers | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | https://download.nvidia.com/opensuse/leap/15.0 | 2 | http-download.opensuse.org-159fac76 | openSUSE:Factory | No | ---- | ---- | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/oss/ | 3 | mariadb | mariadb | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | https://yum.mariadb.org/10.3/opensuse/15/x86_64 | 4 | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-1 | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-1 | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.0/repo/oss/ | 5 | openSUSE_Leap_15.0 | dns-oarc | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/network:/dns-oarc/openSUSE_Leap_15... | 6 | packman.inode.at-suse | Packman Repository | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://packman.inode.at/suse/openSUSE_Leap_15.0/ | 7 | repo-debug | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Debug | No | ---- | ---- | 99 | NONE | http://download.opensuse.org/debug/distribution/leap/15.0/repo/oss/ | 8 | repo-debug-non-oss | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Debug-Non-Oss | No | ---- | ---- | 99 | NONE | http://download.opensuse.org/debug/distribution/leap/15.0/repo/non-oss/ | 9 | repo-debug-update | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Update-Debug | No | ---- | ---- | 99 | NONE | http://download.opensuse.org/debug/update/leap/15.0/oss/ | 10 | repo-debug-update-non-oss | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Update-Debug-Non-Oss | No | ---- | ---- | 99 | NONE | http://download.opensuse.org/debug/update/leap/15.0/non-oss/ | 11 | repo-non-oss | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Non-Oss | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.0/repo/non-oss/ | 12 | repo-source | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Source | No | ---- | ---- | 99 | NONE | http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/leap/15.0/repo/oss/ | 13 | repo-source-non-oss | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Source-Non-Oss | No | ---- | ---- | 99 | NONE | http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/leap/15.0/repo/non-oss/ | 14 | repo-update | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Update | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/update/leap/15.0/oss/ | 15 | repo-update-non-oss | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Update-Non-Oss | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/update/leap/15.0/non-oss/ | 16 | skype-stable | skype (stable) | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | https://repo.skype.com/rpm/stable/ | Marc -- --... ...-- .----. ... -.. . .-- .- --... .--. -..- .-- -- .- .-. -.-. Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

10:41

On 16/06/2019 07.58, Marc Chamberlin wrote:

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On 6/15/19 7:17 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 16/06/2019 03.15, Marc Chamberlin wrote:

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On 6/15/19 5:15 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

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I have disabled the Tumbleweed/Factory repository, hopefully that will quiet the update applet.... Please do:

zypper lr --details > somefile.txt

and attach the somefile.txt to a reply here. Then we can have a look and tell you what to do.

I can do that Carlos, and thank you for helping... (something bellyached when I tried to attach so I will copy paste instead.

Argh. The problem is that if you paste it is unreadable, because of the line wrap. Next time, rather before next time, as you are using Thunderbird, go to Tools/addons, search for Toggle word wrap" and install it. It adds an entry to the "options" menu when composing. And then, when pasting screen output, use it. :-) (the caveat is that it affects to the entire mail)

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Hope the format is OK) Some of these are for things that I had to get later versions of software, for example I had to get a later version of MariaDB because there was a bug in the one that came with OpenSuSE 15.0.

I'll try to answer later after analyzing this. First I'll have to try to unwrap.

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Repository priorities are without effect. All enabled repositories share the same priority.

# | Alias | Name | Enabled | GPG Check | Refresh | Priority | Type | URI | Service ---+-------------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+---------+-----------+---------+----------+--------+---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+-------- 1 | download.nvidia.com-leap | nVidia Graphics Drivers | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | https://download.nvidia.com/opensuse/leap/15.0 | 2 | http-download.opensuse.org-159fac76 | openSUSE:Factory | No | ---- | ---- | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/oss/ | 3 | mariadb | mariadb | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | https://yum.mariadb.org/10.3/opensuse/15/x86_64 | 4 | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-1 | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-1 | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.0/repo/oss/ | 5 | openSUSE_Leap_15.0 | dns-oarc | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/network:/dns-oarc/openSUSE_Leap_15... | 6 | packman.inode.at-suse | Packman Repository | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://packman.inode.at/suse/openSUSE_Leap_15.0/ | 7 | repo-debug | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Debug | No | ---- | ---- | 99 | NONE | http://download.opensuse.org/debug/distribution/leap/15.0/repo/oss/ | 8 | repo-debug-non-oss | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Debug-Non-Oss | No | ---- | ---- | 99 | NONE | http://download.opensuse.org/debug/distribution/leap/15.0/repo/non-oss/ | 9 | repo-debug-update | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Update-Debug | No | ---- | ---- | 99 | NONE | http://download.opensuse.org/debug/update/leap/15.0/oss/ | 10 | repo-debug-update-non-oss | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Update-Debug-Non-Oss | No | ---- | ---- | 99 | NONE | http://download.opensuse.org/debug/update/leap/15.0/non-oss/ | 11 | repo-non-oss | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Non-Oss | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.0/repo/non-oss/ | 12 | repo-source | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Source | No | ---- | ---- | 99 | NONE | http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/leap/15.0/repo/oss/ | 13 | repo-source-non-oss | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Source-Non-Oss | No | ---- | ---- | 99 | NONE | http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/leap/15.0/repo/non-oss/ | 14 | repo-update | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Update | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/update/leap/15.0/oss/ | 15 | repo-update-non-oss | openSUSE-Leap-15.0-Update-Non-Oss | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/update/leap/15.0/non-oss/ | 16 | skype-stable | skype (stable) | Yes | (r ) Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | https://repo.skype.com/rpm/stable/ |

Ok, repo #2 is probably the one at issue here, which you now disabled, and which you should remove. Repo #3 I don't understand. It mentions both 10.3 and 15, so I don't understand what it is. Maybe 10.3 for maria, and 15 for openSUSE? The rest are Ok. If you go to https://software.opensuse.org/package/mariadb to display the available mariadb packages, you see that there is 10.2.24 for tumbleweed, which you should avoid, now you know. 15.0 has 10.2.22, but if you click on "Show experimental packages" one line appears: server:database Experimental 10.2.24 [one click] [download] That's the one you should use. If you click on "Show community packages" many more display, from home repos: these you should avoid, unless you know the owner and he says it is Ok. Homes are playgrounds, and you do not know if they are intended for use by anyone. Unfortunately, the OBS does not publish a comment with the home repos. If you, for some reason, need to install packages from another distribution, there are some tricks. For example, instead of activating the TW repo, you can copy the intended packages and only those to a local directory of your machine, and add that directory as repo. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Oleksii Vilchanskyi

13:38

New subject: [opensuse] Thunderbird word wrapping (Was: Update applet question)

On 6/16/19 12:41 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Next time, rather before next time, as you are using Thunderbird, go to Tools/addons, search for Toggle word wrap" and install it. It adds an entry to the "options" menu when composing. And then, when pasting screen output, use it. :-)

Without addon: copy the text from elsewhere, right-click the Thunderbird canvas -> Paste as quotation. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

18:12

New subject: [opensuse] Thunderbird word wrapping (Was: Update applet question)

On 16/06/2019 15.38, Oleksii Vilchanskyi wrote:

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On 6/16/19 12:41 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Next time, rather before next time, as you are using Thunderbird, go to Tools/addons, search for Toggle word wrap" and install it. It adds an entry to the "options" menu when composing. And then, when pasting screen output, use it. :-)

Without addon: copy the text from elsewhere, right-click the Thunderbird canvas -> Paste as quotation.

Yes, that is what I did this time. But it has failed me in the past, I do not know if because of user error, setting change, corrected bug. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Marc Chamberlin

15:44

On 6/16/19 3:41 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 6/15/19 7:17 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 16/06/2019 03.15, Marc Chamberlin wrote:

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On 6/15/19 5:15 PM, Felix Miata wrote: I have disabled the Tumbleweed/Factory repository, hopefully that will quiet the update applet.... Please do:

zypper lr --details > somefile.txt

and attach the somefile.txt to a reply here. Then we can have a look and tell you what to do.

I can do that Carlos, and thank you for helping... (something bellyached when I tried to attach so I will copy paste instead. Argh. The problem is that if you paste it is unreadable, because of the

On 16/06/2019 07.58, Marc Chamberlin wrote: line wrap.

Ok, repo #2 is probably the one at issue here, which you now disabled, and which you should remove.

Repo #3 I don't understand. It mentions both 10.3 and 15, so I don't understand what it is. Maybe 10.3 for maria, and 15 for openSUSE?

The rest are Ok.

If you go to https://software.opensuse.org/package/mariadb to display the available mariadb packages, you see that there is 10.2.24 for tumbleweed, which you should avoid, now you know. 15.0 has 10.2.22, but if you click on "Show experimental packages" one line appears:

server:database Experimental 10.2.24 [one click] [download]

That's the one you should use.

Thanks Carlos for taking a look at this, and yeah I knew formatting was going to be a problem... Anywise No I could not use version 10.2.xx of the Mariadb package. This problem Apache James was having with Mariadb was that it was issuing a query that was broken in that and prior releases, and was not fixed until Mariadb 10.3. So I had to go directly to their website to get a copy of it, which is where that particular repo comes from. And even if I had use the 1-Click install for 10.2.24, that your link points to, I noticed that it is in the Factory repo also, so wouldn't I be right back in the same difficulty I experienced with upgrading Certbot from the Factory repo? Marc... -- --... ...-- .----. ... -.. . .-- .- --... .--. -..- .-- -- .- .-. -.-. Computers: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the user Marc. His mission: to explore strange new hardware. To seek out new software and new applications. To boldly go where no Marc has gone before! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Andrei Borzenkov

15:50

16.06.2019 18:44, Marc Chamberlin пишет:

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And even if I had use the 1-Click install for 10.2.24, that your link points to, I noticed that it is in the Factory repo also

No, it is not (only for Factory repo). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

18:17

On 16/06/2019 17.44, Marc Chamberlin wrote:

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On 6/16/19 3:41 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 16/06/2019 07.58, Marc Chamberlin wrote:

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On 6/15/19 7:17 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Ok, repo #2 is probably the one at issue here, which you now disabled, and which you should remove.

Repo #3 I don't understand. It mentions both 10.3 and 15, so I don't understand what it is. Maybe 10.3 for maria, and 15 for openSUSE?

The rest are Ok.

If you go to https://software.opensuse.org/package/mariadb to display the available mariadb packages, you see that there is 10.2.24 for tumbleweed, which you should avoid, now you know. 15.0 has 10.2.22, but if you click on "Show experimental packages" one line appears:

server:database Experimental 10.2.24 [one click] [download]

That's the one you should use.

Thanks Carlos for taking a look at this, and yeah I knew formatting was going to be a problem...

Anywise No I could not use version 10.2.xx of the Mariadb package. This problem Apache James was having with Mariadb was that it was issuing a query that was broken in that and prior releases, and was not fixed until Mariadb 10.3. So I had to go directly to their website to get a copy of it, which is where that particular repo comes from.

And even if I had use the 1-Click install for 10.2.24, that your link points to, I noticed that it is in the Factory repo also, so wouldn't I be right back in the same difficulty I experienced with upgrading Certbot from the Factory repo?

No.

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server:database Experimental 10.2.24 [one click] [download]

points to http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/server:/database/openSUSE_Leap_15.... which is not factory, although it is probably prepared by the same people. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

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Andrei Borzenkov
Carlos E. R.
Dave Howorth
David C. Rankin
Felix Miata
jdd＠dodin.org
Ken Schneider - openSUSE
Marc Chamberlin
Oleksii Vilchanskyi
Patrick Shanahan
Per Jessen

[opensuse] Update applet question

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