-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-20 22:34, James Knott wrote:

I currently have W10 running in a VirtualBox VM on Linux. However the real Window 7 on my notebook wants to upgrade to W10 (I have the icon on my task bar),

Huh? I don't have it. Yesterday I booted my W7, after a month, and first it did 8 patches, rebooted, 3 failed, I changed the partition boot flag, updated again, succeeded, got 20 more updates, rebooted four times, got 3 more updates, rebooted, another two updates, rebooted... plus updated some third party tools (firefox, flash, java, acroread, etc). Took me about six hours to do with an internet connection as fast as possible (faster than my WiFi, that is). But it never mentioned updating to W10. I suppose it means paying.

but I'll wait until I do a full drive image, as well as partitions. You can never be too careful with anything from Microsoft.

Nope :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWtX0cACgkQja8UbcUWM1xs0gD/fLTwvnPiVaFBWsrkKHdt0b6g vRa9bW3X0FA5yzp/PUcBAJZR98uoQxnSt3BfNhaJzf5huzcYo+F9/srJRLxyVpe1 =EVPK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2015-07-20 22:34, James Knott wrote:

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I currently have W10 running in a VirtualBox VM on Linux. However the real Window 7 on my notebook wants to upgrade to W10 (I have the icon on my task bar),

Huh? I don't have it.

I just checked my laptop and a PC at my office: Win 7 Home on one, Win 7 Ultimate on the other. There is a "Get Windows 10" icon in the lower right (part of the task bar). It I say yes I "reserve" a copy which which will be available July 29 (or later). It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.

Yesterday I booted my W7, after a month, and first it did 8 patches, rebooted, 3 failed, I changed the partition boot flag, updated again, succeeded, got 20 more updates, rebooted four times, got 3 more updates, rebooted, another two updates, rebooted... plus updated some third party tools (firefox, flash, java, acroread, etc). Took me about six hours to do with an internet connection as fast as possible (faster than my WiFi, that is).

But it never mentioned updating to W10. I suppose it means paying.

...

but I'll wait until I do a full drive image, as well as partitions. You can never be too careful with anything from Microsoft.

Nope :-)

Agreed, but right now you are just reserving a free upgrade. What I read is you have to authorize the actual upgrade later, after Win 10 is released. I don't know if I will upgrade, but I did do the reservation so I would be able to for free. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer composed on 2015-07-20 17:13 (UTC-0400):

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Carlos E. R. wrote:

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James Knott wrote:

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...

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I currently have W10 running in a VirtualBox VM on Linux. However the real Window 7 on my notebook wants to upgrade to W10 (I have the icon on my task bar),

...

...

Huh? I don't have it.

I just checked my laptop and a PC at my office:

...

Win 7 Home on one, Win 7 Ultimate on the other.

...

There is a "Get Windows 10" icon in the lower right (part of the task bar).

...

It I say yes I "reserve" a copy which which will be available July 29 (or later).

...

It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.

That is for the first year after the official launch date of July 29. After that you have to pay, either by buying an OEM-version with a new PC, or the packaged (upgrade-)products.

I just did updates (twice) on a recent non-virtual Win7 Pro for Refurb PCs installation. It has no upgrade to 10 icon on taskbar or desktop or in control panel.

There also seems to be a check whether the hardware meets some minimum criteria. But I do not know exactly what they are. If these are not met, you will not get the offer for the free upgrade.

-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-- L. de Braal BraHa Systems NL - Terneuzen T +31 115 649333 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Billie Walsh wrote:

On 07/21/2015 01:56 AM, Leen de Braal wrote:

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Carlos E. R. wrote: It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.

That is for the first year after the official launch date of July 29. After that you have to pay, either by buying an OEM-version with a new PC, or the packaged (upgrade-)products.

There was an announcement that 10 was the last "version" of Windows. From this point on it was going to be periodic "updates". From the very beginning Windows has been the cash cow for Microsoft so I have to ask myself where is the income stream going forward. Are they going to charge for their periodic updates?

The Windows OS hasn't been a cash cow for a long time. The basically give it to OEMs. The money 5-10 years ago was already in the Office suite. I don't know where they are making their money now, but they clearly have more and more subscription services, not just licensing. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/21/2015 12:43 PM, Billie Walsh wrote:

Without Windows the Office Suite wouldn't.

Well, they always have the Linux version to fall back on. ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 21 July 2015 at 22:44, Billie Walsh wrote:

Why would someone use Microsoft Office when they have Libre Office, Open Office or Koffice. I wouldn't.

I used to have LO last year on my Netbsd partition. LO would display M$ Office files correctly, but composing them in LO and opening them on my M$ Word 2010 wouldn't work well. Borders and margins were a bit mangled. To be honest I gave up on LO because it was a pain to compile. -- Ottavio -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/21/2015 06:04 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Then you have the question of training. Me, I learned how to use Office without "training", on my own, by banging my head. Later, I did the same with LO (which was easier). But most office workers, if they have been trained in one, will refuse to use the other even if very similar, on the grounds of not being trained in it.

And hence there is a business, a quite busy and profitable business, in retraining such users when MS releases a new version of Office. If you recall, unlike OO/LO, each revision of MS-Office has a different looking UI. Now to people like Thee and Mee, who, as you say, mastered what we needed then and will master anything more we might come to need, the "hard way", and if you think those sheep are like the people in Asimov's story "Profession", http://www.abelard.org/asimov.php, where they can't adapt to a slightly differnt thing than what they've been trained on, then you'll have no argument from me. Yes I know that Vi/troff isn't the same as LO isn't the same as Abiword isn't the same as allegra-word yamma yamma yamma but I've not been trained in any of those either. It's sort of like saying that because you learnt to drive in a Honda you can't drive a Ford or a Buick. If you say you can't drivce an articulated truck, then maybe, cornering one of those or backing up one of those isn't going to be easy, its going to be a lot harder than the trailer or boat hooked onto your F150. But a "ten ton truck' or perhaps even a combine harvester ... BTDT. Cornering the harvester with the blades down is a bugger, but you don't do that very often :-0 But there are times when you do what's needed and saying "I haven't been trained" is no excuse.

Don't trivialize training: I have seen several attempts at implementing Linux on some environments that failed very soon because of this. The management installed Linux, then the users formatted the disks and installed pirated copies of Windows; and the local management did not stop this, because they did the same on their computers.

Lost battle.

That's not a "can't", its a "won't". We've got plenty of examples of {parents,grandparents,relatives} being given a Linux platform to do their email & browsing and never complaining. When I think about it, there are plenty of Windows users who have Thunderbird ad Firefox. There are many file managers that don't look much different from {thunar,rox,dolphin,commander} so a cross-over shouldn't be difficult. Now command line, that's another matter. -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 21-07-15 14:53, Billie Walsh wrote:

On 07/21/2015 01:56 AM, Leen de Braal wrote:

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...

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Carlos E. R. wrote: It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.

That is for the first year after the official launch date of July 29. After that you have to pay, either by buying an OEM-version with a new PC, or the packaged (upgrade-)products.

There was an announcement that 10 was the last "version" of Windows. From this point on it was going to be periodic "updates". From the very beginning Windows has been the cash cow for Microsoft so I have to ask myself where is the income stream going forward. Are they going to charge for their periodic updates?

Of course they will. They'll call it Windows 365 and require you to fork $150 a year for another subscription. They're doing it with office right now. Jos. -- Jos van Kan registered Linux user #152704 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:56 AM, Leen de Braal wrote:

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...

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There is a "Get Windows 10" icon in the lower right (part of the task bar).

...

It I say yes I "reserve" a copy which which will be available July 29 (or later).

...

It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.

That is for the first year after the official launch date of July 29. After that you have to pay, either by buying an OEM-version with a new PC, or the packaged (upgrade-)products.

So if I do the upgrade I can expect to be writing a check next summer?

No, you have 1 year to do the upgrade for free, and after that you just get your regular updates (which you can no longer disable, btw, updates are mandatory). If you do not upgrade in the first year, you loose the free upgrade. Policy seems to be to get as much computers on win10 as soon as possible, to avoid another xp. And since MS is on their way to just making money with subscriptions, as Billy just said, one could predict that they will on the long run let you pay a subscription for getting your updates. Win 10 will also be the last version, MS is making it a kind of rolling release (which is the reason they make updating mandatory, they say).

-- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-- L. de Braal BraHa Systems NL - Terneuzen T +31 115 649333 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue 21 Jul 2015 12:16:59 PM CDT, Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:56 AM, Leen de Braal wrote:

...

...

...

There is a "Get Windows 10" icon in the lower right (part of the task bar).

...

It I say yes I "reserve" a copy which which will be available July 29 (or later).

...

It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.

That is for the first year after the official launch date of July 29. After that you have to pay, either by buying an OEM-version with a new PC, or the packaged (upgrade-)products.

So if I do the upgrade I can expect to be writing a check next summer?

-- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net Hi Did you see this article? http://www.computerworld.com/article/2945796/microsoft-windows/microsoft-to-...

Came across this article, seeing whether or not will need to re-install windows 7 sp1 and upgrade; http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/operating-systems/windows-10-relea... Not sure if the RTM Pro version I have will expire or not....? -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° LFCS, SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890) SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 GNOME 3.10.1 Kernel 3.12.43-52.6-default up 9 days 0:45, 4 users, load average: 0.64, 0.41, 0.36 CPU AMD A4-5150M APU @ 3.3GHz | GPU Richland Radeon HD 8350G -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 22/07/2015 09:34, andredo@wxs.nl a écrit :

My questions were; Windows 10 with undoubtly it's UEFI-BIOS, wil my openSUSE 13.1 survive that? And if not how can I then install 13.1 again? T.i.a.

André den Oudsten

usually 13.1 installs as UEFI what is your present windows version? jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 22/07/2015 10:37, andredo@wxs.nl a écrit :

Op 22-07-15 om 09:39 schreef jdd:

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usually 13.1 installs as UEFI

what is your present windows version?

jdd Windows 7 Home Premium

probably already in uefi. Do you have a folder /efi? if so you should have no problem... providing Microsoft do not add some qirk of it's own :-(( jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 22/07/2015 11:39, andredo@wxs.nl a écrit :

There is no efi partition in Windows 7 Home Premium on this laptop, as there is on my desktop with Windows 8.1

ok, so openSUSE is also installed on legacy mode. and you have an icon "update to windows 10"? if so this may mean that windows 10 will install in legacy mode. I didn't think about it (I do not care much of windows, but for dual boot installs), but if Msoft wants to rule the world with w10, this option may be mandatory. Google seems to confirm this. you should have no special problem, with the usual restrictions about msoft jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-22 12:40, andredo@wxs.nl wrote:

Op 22-07-15 om 11:49 schreef jdd:

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Le 22/07/2015 11:39, a écrit :

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There is no efi partition in Windows 7 Home Premium on this laptop, as there is on my desktop with Windows 8.1

ok, so openSUSE is also installed on legacy mode. That's too fast. In windows 7 there is no 'legacy' or 'uefi'.

which means that it uses legacy mode, which at the time was the only mode :-)

On my desktop I could, under 'Legacy only', install Tumbleweed snapshot 20150712, but at the restart there did not appear a menu to choose. That's the reason I want to know how to install openSUSE on a windows 10 machine!

You do it the same way that double boot has been done for decades, with the caveat that few people have done it as W10 is new, and all new machines have UEFI. You will have to try, find the problems, solve them, and report for the people that install after you :-) The traditional method is to first install Windows, shrink it if it used the entire disk, then install Linux in the remaining space. And configure grub to boot both. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWvdO8ACgkQja8UbcUWM1zWSgD/SMh+tER1VIfB8XA7JawtbIQR IoVjRzQWTaEAhxPbjjkA/ibPqJBGu6tYNt6S5VAnAB4DKbH7vq3GOAFZggazFBUJ =SNyC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/22/2015 04:49 AM, jdd wrote:

Le 22/07/2015 11:39, andredo@wxs.nl a écrit :

...

There is no efi partition in Windows 7 Home Premium on this laptop, as there is on my desktop with Windows 8.1

ok, so openSUSE is also installed on legacy mode.

and you have an icon "update to windows 10"?

if so this may mean that windows 10 will install in legacy mode. I didn't think about it (I do not care much of windows, but for dual boot installs), but if Msoft wants to rule the world with w10, this option may be mandatory. Google seems to confirm this.

you should have no special problem, with the usual restrictions about msoft

jdd

May have to reinstall your bootloader. -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/22/2015 01:29 PM, James Knott wrote:

On 07/22/2015 08:11 AM, Billie Walsh wrote:

...

May have to reinstall your bootloader.

Any trick to doing that?

Well, I booted from a CD/DVD and used that to install grub. I googled for the command line string but don't remember now. Way to long ago. I'm sure someone here can help with that, or google. -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/22/2015 04:48 AM, jdd wrote:

providing Microsoft do not add some qirk of it's own

That'll never happen. </sarcasm> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 12:18:26 -0500 Malcolm wrote:

On Wed 22 Jul 2015 09:40:49 AM CDT, Thomas Taylor wrote:

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On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 21:16:55 +0200 "andredo@wxs.nl" wrote:

...

At the end of this month I can windows 7 on my laptop upgrade to Windows 10 with undoubtly it's UEFI-BIOS. Wil my openSUSE 13.1 survive that? And if not how can I then install 13.1 again? T.i.a.

André den Oudsten

Having "upgraded" MS versions many times in the past in multi-boot systems can say there are some "gotchas" on MS part.

First, openSuSE has an UEFI shim so that shouldn't be a problem.

Next, MS tends to try to use the "ENTIRE" physical drive by default. One has to do some gymnastics to get that changed. So far only the ßeta version of MS 10 is available and it doesn't have any option but "whole drive". Hopefully the public release will revert to old way.

Hi That isn't true (well I've only used uefi), I have windows 10 installed on a 30GB partition from the beta (well it's the rtm version now). I used the custom install and told it where to go. It does play nice with other operating systems on UEFI and happily creates it's directories for the uefi install. I tried both ways, windows 10, then Tumbleweed. Then next update did it the other way without issues. I also ensured nvram efi entries were cleaned out, and had a pre-partitioned setup since it's only a 128GB SSD.

Nice thing about the later HP ProBooks is adding a 'custom' boot option to add the shim entry in and set custom to boot first. I can also do this on an ASUS K53U test system as well.

Now in saying the above the very first beta I installed I let it use the whole drive to see what it would do. It does want a 300MB RE partition at sda1.

The update from build 162 to 240 (RTM) just downloaded and created a 4.5GB hidden windows directory for the update, so only had a few GB to spare with 30GB... Still not sure if the rtm version will be a giveaway or expire..will see in a few months, else I'll just stick windows 7 back on and update.

Hi André, Your version 162 was a later version than I experimented with (107) which did not have much in install options and was released to us hams (kg7cfc) for testing. Guess they're finally deciding to begin playing nicer with other OS's. Tom -- When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. - Anonymous ^^ --... ...-- / -.- --. --... -.-. ..-. -.-. ^^^^ Tom Taylor KG7CFC openSUSE 13.1 (64-bit), Kernel 3.11.6-4-default, KDE 4.11.2, AMD A8-7600, GeForce GTX 740 T/PCIe/ 16GB RAM -- 3x1.5TB sata2 -- 128GB-SSD FF 37.0, claws-mail 3.10.1 registered linux user 263467 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org