At the end of this month I can windows 7 on my laptop upgrade to Windows 10 with undoubtly it's UEFI-BIOS. Wil my openSUSE 13.1 survive that? And if not how can I then install 13.1 again? T.i.a. André den Oudsten -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon 20 Jul 2015 09:16:55 PM CDT, andredo@wxs.nl wrote:
At the end of this month I can windows 7 on my laptop upgrade to Windows 10 with undoubtly it's UEFI-BIOS. Wil my openSUSE 13.1 survive that? And if not how can I then install 13.1 again? T.i.a.
André den Oudsten Hi It may want an extra partition or two..... sda1 @300MB type RE and another one for the download...
Wait and see if you can get an iso image (not sure about this) which would make life easier. In my tests of the windows 10 installer for efi it happily co-exists with openSUSE if I use the custom install to tell it where windows goes, plus if openSUSE exists in /efi/boot it just creates it's directories and installs it's efi files without touching openSUSE. Just updating to build 10240 (download only) so will see how that goes.... -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° LFCS, SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890) SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 GNOME 3.10.1 Kernel 3.12.43-52.6-default up 7 days 18:06, 4 users, load average: 0.58, 0.37, 0.27 CPU AMD A4-5150M APU @ 3.3GHz | GPU Richland Radeon HD 8350G -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/20/2015 03:25 PM, Malcolm wrote:
On Mon 20 Jul 2015 09:16:55 PM CDT, andredo@wxs.nl wrote:
At the end of this month I can windows 7 on my laptop upgrade to Windows 10 with undoubtly it's UEFI-BIOS. Wil my openSUSE 13.1 survive that? And if not how can I then install 13.1 again? T.i.a.
André den Oudsten Hi It may want an extra partition or two..... sda1 @300MB type RE and another one for the download...
Wait and see if you can get an iso image (not sure about this) which would make life easier. In my tests of the windows 10 installer for efi it happily co-exists with openSUSE if I use the custom install to tell it where windows goes, plus if openSUSE exists in /efi/boot it just creates it's directories and installs it's efi files without touching openSUSE.
Just updating to build 10240 (download only) so will see how that goes....
I currently have W10 running in a VirtualBox VM on Linux. However the real Window 7 on my notebook wants to upgrade to W10 (I have the icon on my task bar), but I'll wait until I do a full drive image, as well as partitions. You can never be too careful with anything from Microsoft. I also have W7 running in a VM on my desktop computer, again in VirtualBox. I'm curious as to how that will go, given that it's running in a VM built for W7. Will I have to start from scratch etc.? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-20 22:34, James Knott wrote:
I currently have W10 running in a VirtualBox VM on Linux. However the real Window 7 on my notebook wants to upgrade to W10 (I have the icon on my task bar),
Huh? I don't have it. Yesterday I booted my W7, after a month, and first it did 8 patches, rebooted, 3 failed, I changed the partition boot flag, updated again, succeeded, got 20 more updates, rebooted four times, got 3 more updates, rebooted, another two updates, rebooted... plus updated some third party tools (firefox, flash, java, acroread, etc). Took me about six hours to do with an internet connection as fast as possible (faster than my WiFi, that is). But it never mentioned updating to W10. I suppose it means paying.
but I'll wait until I do a full drive image, as well as partitions. You can never be too careful with anything from Microsoft.
Nope :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWtX0cACgkQja8UbcUWM1xs0gD/fLTwvnPiVaFBWsrkKHdt0b6g vRa9bW3X0FA5yzp/PUcBAJZR98uoQxnSt3BfNhaJzf5huzcYo+F9/srJRLxyVpe1 =EVPK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/20/2015 04:51 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Huh? I don't have it.
I have it on the Windows 7 that came with my ThinkPad, but not in the one I installed in a VM on my desktop system. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
On 2015-07-20 22:34, James Knott wrote:
I currently have W10 running in a VirtualBox VM on Linux. However the real Window 7 on my notebook wants to upgrade to W10 (I have the icon on my task bar),
Huh? I don't have it.
I just checked my laptop and a PC at my office: Win 7 Home on one, Win 7 Ultimate on the other. There is a "Get Windows 10" icon in the lower right (part of the task bar). It I say yes I "reserve" a copy which which will be available July 29 (or later). It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.
Yesterday I booted my W7, after a month, and first it did 8 patches, rebooted, 3 failed, I changed the partition boot flag, updated again, succeeded, got 20 more updates, rebooted four times, got 3 more updates, rebooted, another two updates, rebooted... plus updated some third party tools (firefox, flash, java, acroread, etc). Took me about six hours to do with an internet connection as fast as possible (faster than my WiFi, that is).
But it never mentioned updating to W10. I suppose it means paying.
but I'll wait until I do a full drive image, as well as partitions. You can never be too careful with anything from Microsoft.
Nope :-)
Agreed, but right now you are just reserving a free upgrade. What I read is you have to authorize the actual upgrade later, after Win 10 is released. I don't know if I will upgrade, but I did do the reservation so I would be able to for free. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Greg Freemyer composed on 2015-07-20 17:13 (UTC-0400):
Carlos E. R. wrote:
James Knott wrote:
I currently have W10 running in a VirtualBox VM on Linux. However the real Window 7 on my notebook wants to upgrade to W10 (I have the icon on my task bar),
Huh? I don't have it.
I just checked my laptop and a PC at my office:
Win 7 Home on one, Win 7 Ultimate on the other.
There is a "Get Windows 10" icon in the lower right (part of the task bar).
It I say yes I "reserve" a copy which which will be available July 29 (or later).
It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.
I just did updates (twice) on a recent non-virtual Win7 Pro for Refurb PCs installation. It has no upgrade to 10 icon on taskbar or desktop or in control panel. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Greg Freemyer composed on 2015-07-20 17:13 (UTC-0400):
Carlos E. R. wrote:
James Knott wrote:
I currently have W10 running in a VirtualBox VM on Linux. However the real Window 7 on my notebook wants to upgrade to W10 (I have the icon on my task bar),
Huh? I don't have it.
I just checked my laptop and a PC at my office:
Win 7 Home on one, Win 7 Ultimate on the other.
There is a "Get Windows 10" icon in the lower right (part of the task bar).
It I say yes I "reserve" a copy which which will be available July 29 (or later).
It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.
That is for the first year after the official launch date of July 29. After that you have to pay, either by buying an OEM-version with a new PC, or the packaged (upgrade-)products.
I just did updates (twice) on a recent non-virtual Win7 Pro for Refurb PCs installation. It has no upgrade to 10 icon on taskbar or desktop or in control panel.
There also seems to be a check whether the hardware meets some minimum criteria. But I do not know exactly what they are. If these are not met, you will not get the offer for the free upgrade.
-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-- L. de Braal BraHa Systems NL - Terneuzen T +31 115 649333 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/21/2015 01:56 AM, Leen de Braal wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote: It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.
That is for the first year after the official launch date of July 29. After that you have to pay, either by buying an OEM-version with a new PC, or the packaged (upgrade-)products.
There was an announcement that 10 was the last "version" of Windows. From this point on it was going to be periodic "updates". From the very beginning Windows has been the cash cow for Microsoft so I have to ask myself where is the income stream going forward. Are they going to charge for their periodic updates? -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Billie Walsh <bilwalsh@swbell.net> wrote:
On 07/21/2015 01:56 AM, Leen de Braal wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote: It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.
That is for the first year after the official launch date of July 29. After that you have to pay, either by buying an OEM-version with a new PC, or the packaged (upgrade-)products.
There was an announcement that 10 was the last "version" of Windows. From this point on it was going to be periodic "updates". From the very beginning Windows has been the cash cow for Microsoft so I have to ask myself where is the income stream going forward. Are they going to charge for their periodic updates?
The Windows OS hasn't been a cash cow for a long time. The basically give it to OEMs. The money 5-10 years ago was already in the Office suite. I don't know where they are making their money now, but they clearly have more and more subscription services, not just licensing. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/21/2015 11:15 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Billie Walsh <bilwalsh@swbell.net> wrote:
On 07/21/2015 01:56 AM, Leen de Braal wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote: It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.
That is for the first year after the official launch date of July 29. After that you have to pay, either by buying an OEM-version with a new PC, or the packaged (upgrade-)products.
There was an announcement that 10 was the last "version" of Windows. From this point on it was going to be periodic "updates". From the very beginning Windows has been the cash cow for Microsoft so I have to ask myself where is the income stream going forward. Are they going to charge for their periodic updates?
The Windows OS hasn't been a cash cow for a long time. The basically give it to OEMs.
The money 5-10 years ago was already in the Office suite.
I don't know where they are making their money now, but they clearly have more and more subscription services, not just licensing.
Greg Without Windows the Office Suite wouldn't.
-- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/21/2015 04:33 PM, James Knott wrote:
On 07/21/2015 12:43 PM, Billie Walsh wrote:
Without Windows the Office Suite wouldn't. Well, they always have the Linux version to fall back on. ;-)
Why would someone use Microsoft Office when they have Libre Office, Open Office or Koffice. I wouldn't. -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 21 July 2015 at 22:44, Billie Walsh <bilwalsh@swbell.net> wrote:
Why would someone use Microsoft Office when they have Libre Office, Open Office or Koffice. I wouldn't.
I used to have LO last year on my Netbsd partition. LO would display M$ Office files correctly, but composing them in LO and opening them on my M$ Word 2010 wouldn't work well. Borders and margins were a bit mangled. To be honest I gave up on LO because it was a pain to compile. -- Ottavio -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-21 23:44, Billie Walsh wrote:
On 07/21/2015 04:33 PM, James Knott wrote:
On 07/21/2015 12:43 PM, Billie Walsh wrote:
Without Windows the Office Suite wouldn't. Well, they always have the Linux version to fall back on. ;-)
Why would someone use Microsoft Office when they have Libre Office, Open Office or Koffice. I wouldn't.
Me neither, but apparently it has its uses, that LO doesn't fulfil. There is some functionality in excel that we don't have, for instance. Don't ask me what, I don't have excel. Then, MS O has a very powerful (and critizised) database module. Yes, LO has one, too, but this one I know that is not as functional. Then you have the question of training. Me, I learned how to use Office without "training", on my own, by banging my head. Later, I did the same with LO (which was easier). But most office workers, if they have been trained in one, will refuse to use the other even if very similar, on the grounds of not being trained in it. Don't trivialize training: I have seen several attempts at implementing Linux on some environments that failed very soon because of this. The management installed Linux, then the users formatted the disks and installed pirated copies of Windows; and the local management did not stop this, because they did the same on their computers. Lost battle. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWuwc8ACgkQja8UbcUWM1xrwgD/Zc13jYn8DRtQfj0krYWtXC/e nL+D272bA8jqFxUO0aAA/RNxMscht5PyLBJUuKWT+I4LhbWo5Udo6E4ihwCEtaqt =AbHe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/21/2015 06:04 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Then you have the question of training. Me, I learned how to use Office without "training", on my own, by banging my head. Later, I did the same with LO (which was easier). But most office workers, if they have been trained in one, will refuse to use the other even if very similar, on the grounds of not being trained in it.
And hence there is a business, a quite busy and profitable business, in retraining such users when MS releases a new version of Office. If you recall, unlike OO/LO, each revision of MS-Office has a different looking UI. Now to people like Thee and Mee, who, as you say, mastered what we needed then and will master anything more we might come to need, the "hard way", and if you think those sheep are like the people in Asimov's story "Profession", http://www.abelard.org/asimov.php, where they can't adapt to a slightly differnt thing than what they've been trained on, then you'll have no argument from me. Yes I know that Vi/troff isn't the same as LO isn't the same as Abiword isn't the same as allegra-word yamma yamma yamma but I've not been trained in any of those either. It's sort of like saying that because you learnt to drive in a Honda you can't drive a Ford or a Buick. If you say you can't drivce an articulated truck, then maybe, cornering one of those or backing up one of those isn't going to be easy, its going to be a lot harder than the trailer or boat hooked onto your F150. But a "ten ton truck' or perhaps even a combine harvester ... BTDT. Cornering the harvester with the blades down is a bugger, but you don't do that very often :-0 But there are times when you do what's needed and saying "I haven't been trained" is no excuse.
Don't trivialize training: I have seen several attempts at implementing Linux on some environments that failed very soon because of this. The management installed Linux, then the users formatted the disks and installed pirated copies of Windows; and the local management did not stop this, because they did the same on their computers.
Lost battle.
That's not a "can't", its a "won't". We've got plenty of examples of {parents,grandparents,relatives} being given a Linux platform to do their email & browsing and never complaining. When I think about it, there are plenty of Windows users who have Thunderbird ad Firefox. There are many file managers that don't look much different from {thunar,rox,dolphin,commander} so a cross-over shouldn't be difficult. Now command line, that's another matter. -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-22 00:39, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 07/21/2015 06:04 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
And hence there is a business, a quite busy and profitable business, in retraining such users when MS releases a new version of Office. If you recall, unlike OO/LO, each revision of MS-Office has a different looking UI.
A lesson KDE/Gnome have not learned >;-)
Now to people like Thee and Mee, who, as you say, mastered what we needed then and will master anything more we might come to need, the "hard way", and if you think those sheep are like the people in Asimov's story "Profession", http://www.abelard.org/asimov.php, where they can't adapt to a slightly differnt thing than what they've been trained on, then you'll have no argument from me.
I just saved that article on "pocket" to read on my ebook later ;-)
Lost battle.
That's not a "can't", its a "won't".
Doesn't really matter :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWu7+4ACgkQja8UbcUWM1zphQEAiEEupJpWvk70efNY488E7W+C R4qWtn6KOjDAkGCkbAEA/iTidn6hbZdQx5GNbgYxQIFZr2AJVobhHvJ5uxyY2Jmm =eOTH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 21-07-15 14:53, Billie Walsh wrote:
On 07/21/2015 01:56 AM, Leen de Braal wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote: It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.
That is for the first year after the official launch date of July 29. After that you have to pay, either by buying an OEM-version with a new PC, or the packaged (upgrade-)products.
There was an announcement that 10 was the last "version" of Windows. From this point on it was going to be periodic "updates". From the very beginning Windows has been the cash cow for Microsoft so I have to ask myself where is the income stream going forward. Are they going to charge for their periodic updates?
Of course they will. They'll call it Windows 365 and require you to fork $150 a year for another subscription. They're doing it with office right now. Jos. -- Jos van Kan registered Linux user #152704 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:56 AM, Leen de Braal <ldb@braha.nl> wrote:
There is a "Get Windows 10" icon in the lower right (part of the task bar).
It I say yes I "reserve" a copy which which will be available July 29 (or later).
It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.
That is for the first year after the official launch date of July 29. After that you have to pay, either by buying an OEM-version with a new PC, or the packaged (upgrade-)products.
So if I do the upgrade I can expect to be writing a check next summer? -- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:56 AM, Leen de Braal <ldb@braha.nl> wrote:
There is a "Get Windows 10" icon in the lower right (part of the task bar).
It I say yes I "reserve" a copy which which will be available July 29 (or later).
It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.
That is for the first year after the official launch date of July 29. After that you have to pay, either by buying an OEM-version with a new PC, or the packaged (upgrade-)products.
So if I do the upgrade I can expect to be writing a check next summer?
No, you have 1 year to do the upgrade for free, and after that you just get your regular updates (which you can no longer disable, btw, updates are mandatory). If you do not upgrade in the first year, you loose the free upgrade. Policy seems to be to get as much computers on win10 as soon as possible, to avoid another xp. And since MS is on their way to just making money with subscriptions, as Billy just said, one could predict that they will on the long run let you pay a subscription for getting your updates. Win 10 will also be the last version, MS is making it a kind of rolling release (which is the reason they make updating mandatory, they say).
-- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-- L. de Braal BraHa Systems NL - Terneuzen T +31 115 649333 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-21 19:29, Leen de Braal wrote:
No, you have 1 year to do the upgrade for free,
If you get the offer. I didn't.
Policy seems to be to get as much computers on win10 as soon as possible, to avoid another xp.
Makes some sense.
And since MS is on their way to just making money with subscriptions, as Billy just said, one could predict that they will on the long run let you pay a subscription for getting your updates. Win 10 will also be the last version, MS is making it a kind of rolling release (which is the reason they make updating mandatory, they say).
Mmm... service packs are tricky with double booting Linux :-( - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWujKcACgkQja8UbcUWM1wwGgD/flhBnQqI1TnfELIemcMeFRiP XJdfMlinwU1RIfKgvz4A/jD+g9Ji2oG5cpnOkni9ESOhUe2uzlWThIEKdBONFCAv =G+Ww -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue 21 Jul 2015 12:16:59 PM CDT, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:56 AM, Leen de Braal <ldb@braha.nl> wrote:
There is a "Get Windows 10" icon in the lower right (part of the task bar).
It I say yes I "reserve" a copy which which will be available July 29 (or later).
It says it is free on both my Home and Ultimate versions.
That is for the first year after the official launch date of July 29. After that you have to pay, either by buying an OEM-version with a new PC, or the packaged (upgrade-)products.
So if I do the upgrade I can expect to be writing a check next summer?
-- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net Hi Did you see this article? http://www.computerworld.com/article/2945796/microsoft-windows/microsoft-to-...
Came across this article, seeing whether or not will need to re-install windows 7 sp1 and upgrade; http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/operating-systems/windows-10-relea... Not sure if the RTM Pro version I have will expire or not....? -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° LFCS, SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890) SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 GNOME 3.10.1 Kernel 3.12.43-52.6-default up 9 days 0:45, 4 users, load average: 0.64, 0.41, 0.36 CPU AMD A4-5150M APU @ 3.3GHz | GPU Richland Radeon HD 8350G -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
My questions were; Windows 10 with undoubtly it's UEFI-BIOS, wil my openSUSE 13.1 survive that? And if not how can I then install 13.1 again? T.i.a. André den Oudsten -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 22/07/2015 09:34, andredo@wxs.nl a écrit :
My questions were; Windows 10 with undoubtly it's UEFI-BIOS, wil my openSUSE 13.1 survive that? And if not how can I then install 13.1 again? T.i.a.
André den Oudsten
usually 13.1 installs as UEFI what is your present windows version? jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op 22-07-15 om 09:39 schreef jdd:
Le 22/07/2015 09:34, andredo@wxs.nl a écrit :
My questions were; Windows 10 with undoubtly it's UEFI-BIOS, wil my openSUSE 13.1 survive that? And if not how can I then install 13.1 again? T.i.a.
André den Oudsten
usually 13.1 installs as UEFI
what is your present windows version?
jdd Windows 7 Home Premium
André -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 22/07/2015 10:37, andredo@wxs.nl a écrit :
Op 22-07-15 om 09:39 schreef jdd:
usually 13.1 installs as UEFI
what is your present windows version?
jdd Windows 7 Home Premium
probably already in uefi. Do you have a folder /efi? if so you should have no problem... providing Microsoft do not add some qirk of it's own :-(( jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op 22-07-15 om 10:48 schreef jdd:
Le 22/07/2015 10:37, andredo@wxs.nl a écrit :
Op 22-07-15 om 09:39 schreef jdd:
usually 13.1 installs as UEFI
what is your present windows version?
jdd Windows 7 Home Premium
probably already in uefi. Do you have a folder /efi?
if so you should have no problem... providing Microsoft do not add some qirk of it's own :-((
jdd
There is no efi partition in Windows 7 Home Premium on this laptop, as there is on my desktop with Windows 8.1 André -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 22/07/2015 11:39, andredo@wxs.nl a écrit :
There is no efi partition in Windows 7 Home Premium on this laptop, as there is on my desktop with Windows 8.1
ok, so openSUSE is also installed on legacy mode. and you have an icon "update to windows 10"? if so this may mean that windows 10 will install in legacy mode. I didn't think about it (I do not care much of windows, but for dual boot installs), but if Msoft wants to rule the world with w10, this option may be mandatory. Google seems to confirm this. you should have no special problem, with the usual restrictions about msoft jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op 22-07-15 om 11:49 schreef jdd:
Le 22/07/2015 11:39, andredo@wxs.nl a écrit :
There is no efi partition in Windows 7 Home Premium on this laptop, as there is on my desktop with Windows 8.1
ok, so openSUSE is also installed on legacy mode. That's too fast. In windows 7 there is no 'legacy' or 'uefi'.
On my desktop I could, under 'Legacy only', install Tumbleweed snapshot 20150712, but at the restart there did not appear a menu to choose. That's the reason I want to know how to install openSUSE on a windows 10 machine!
and you have an icon "update to windows 10"?
Yess
if so this may mean that windows 10 will install in legacy mode. I didn't think about it (I do not care much of windows, but for dual boot installs), but if Msoft wants to rule the world with w10, this option may be mandatory. Google seems to confirm this.
you should have no special problem, with the usual restrictions about msoft
jdd
André -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-22 12:40, andredo@wxs.nl wrote:
Op 22-07-15 om 11:49 schreef jdd:
Le 22/07/2015 11:39, a écrit :
There is no efi partition in Windows 7 Home Premium on this laptop, as there is on my desktop with Windows 8.1
ok, so openSUSE is also installed on legacy mode. That's too fast. In windows 7 there is no 'legacy' or 'uefi'.
which means that it uses legacy mode, which at the time was the only mode :-)
On my desktop I could, under 'Legacy only', install Tumbleweed snapshot 20150712, but at the restart there did not appear a menu to choose. That's the reason I want to know how to install openSUSE on a windows 10 machine!
You do it the same way that double boot has been done for decades, with the caveat that few people have done it as W10 is new, and all new machines have UEFI. You will have to try, find the problems, solve them, and report for the people that install after you :-) The traditional method is to first install Windows, shrink it if it used the entire disk, then install Linux in the remaining space. And configure grub to boot both. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWvdO8ACgkQja8UbcUWM1zWSgD/SMh+tER1VIfB8XA7JawtbIQR IoVjRzQWTaEAhxPbjjkA/ibPqJBGu6tYNt6S5VAnAB4DKbH7vq3GOAFZggazFBUJ =SNyC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 22 July 2015 at 11:48, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
which means that it uses legacy mode, which at the time was the only mode :-)
I can confirm that old devices with Windows 7 don't have the concept of legacy mode. BIOS is BIOS is BIOS. Legacy mode is when the UEFI fakes a BIOS. There's no UEFI in old laptops with Windows 7. -- Ottavio -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/22/2015 04:49 AM, jdd wrote:
Le 22/07/2015 11:39, andredo@wxs.nl a écrit :
There is no efi partition in Windows 7 Home Premium on this laptop, as there is on my desktop with Windows 8.1
ok, so openSUSE is also installed on legacy mode.
and you have an icon "update to windows 10"?
if so this may mean that windows 10 will install in legacy mode. I didn't think about it (I do not care much of windows, but for dual boot installs), but if Msoft wants to rule the world with w10, this option may be mandatory. Google seems to confirm this.
you should have no special problem, with the usual restrictions about msoft
jdd
May have to reinstall your bootloader. -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/22/2015 01:29 PM, James Knott wrote:
On 07/22/2015 08:11 AM, Billie Walsh wrote:
May have to reinstall your bootloader.
Any trick to doing that?
Well, I booted from a CD/DVD and used that to install grub. I googled for the command line string but don't remember now. Way to long ago. I'm sure someone here can help with that, or google. -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-22 20:29, James Knott wrote:
On 07/22/2015 08:11 AM, Billie Walsh wrote:
May have to reinstall your bootloader.
Any trick to doing that?
It will depend on how and where it was installed :-) Me, I leave the MBR as generic, so Windows can modify it at will. I install Grub in another partition, and mark it as bootable. When I want to update Windows (service packs, usually), I mark again the Windows boot partition as bootable, so that Grub is bypassed and Windows thinks it is master ;-) After the updates, I mark again the grub partition as bootable instead. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWwUpkACgkQja8UbcUWM1yhoQD/frk5AQyTJN5oXwpNsDP8++nU X7fDHmOsydwFA1cWbFMA/ROGCrkx6SY+fS1XjcfHef5z0rTx30u87lgvSmpniHRf =59o0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/22/2015 03:34 AM, andredo@wxs.nl wrote:
My questions were; Windows 10 with undoubtly it's UEFI-BIOS, wil my openSUSE 13.1 survive that? And if not how can I then install 13.1 again? T.i.a.
I'm also worried about that. At the moment, my ThinkPad is not configured to use it and I dual boot between Linux & W7. The ThinkPad supports UEFI, but it's not enabled. I may have to reinstall openSUSE. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 21:16:55 +0200 "andredo@wxs.nl" <AdenOudsten@wxs.nl> wrote:
At the end of this month I can windows 7 on my laptop upgrade to Windows 10 with undoubtly it's UEFI-BIOS. Wil my openSUSE 13.1 survive that? And if not how can I then install 13.1 again? T.i.a.
André den Oudsten
Having "upgraded" MS versions many times in the past in multi-boot systems can say there are some "gotchas" on MS part. First, openSuSE has an UEFI shim so that shouldn't be a problem. Next, MS tends to try to use the "ENTIRE" physical drive by default. One has to do some gymnastics to get that changed. So far only the ßeta version of MS 10 is available and it doesn't have any option but "whole drive". Hopefully the public release will revert to old way. Another problem will be the bootloader. MS ALWAYS but boot code in the MBR track, meaning you will at minimum need to re-create a new bootloader for multi-boot. It's in the openSuSE documentation or just Google it. The above having been said, you may or may not need to re-install OS 13.1 depending on how friendly (Unfriendly?) MS decides to be. WHATEVER YOU DO, BE SURE TO CREATE ONE (OE MORE) BACKUPS OF ALL YOUR PERSONAL FILES BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE. Tom -- When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. - Anonymous ^^ --... ...-- / -.- --. --... -.-. ..-. -.-. ^^^^ Tom Taylor KG7CFC openSUSE 13.1 (64-bit), Kernel 3.11.6-4-default, KDE 4.11.2, AMD A8-7600, GeForce GTX 740 T/PCIe/ 16GB RAM -- 3x1.5TB sata2 -- 128GB-SSD FF 37.0, claws-mail 3.10.1 registered linux user 263467 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed 22 Jul 2015 09:40:49 AM CDT, Thomas Taylor wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 21:16:55 +0200 "andredo@wxs.nl" <AdenOudsten@wxs.nl> wrote:
At the end of this month I can windows 7 on my laptop upgrade to Windows 10 with undoubtly it's UEFI-BIOS. Wil my openSUSE 13.1 survive that? And if not how can I then install 13.1 again? T.i.a.
André den Oudsten
Having "upgraded" MS versions many times in the past in multi-boot systems can say there are some "gotchas" on MS part.
First, openSuSE has an UEFI shim so that shouldn't be a problem.
Next, MS tends to try to use the "ENTIRE" physical drive by default. One has to do some gymnastics to get that changed. So far only the ßeta version of MS 10 is available and it doesn't have any option but "whole drive". Hopefully the public release will revert to old way.
Hi That isn't true (well I've only used uefi), I have windows 10 installed on a 30GB partition from the beta (well it's the rtm version now). I used the custom install and told it where to go. It does play nice with other operating systems on UEFI and happily creates it's directories for the uefi install. I tried both ways, windows 10, then Tumbleweed. Then next update did it the other way without issues. I also ensured nvram efi entries were cleaned out, and had a pre-partitioned setup since it's only a 128GB SSD. Nice thing about the later HP ProBooks is adding a 'custom' boot option to add the shim entry in and set custom to boot first. I can also do this on an ASUS K53U test system as well. Now in saying the above the very first beta I installed I let it use the whole drive to see what it would do. It does want a 300MB RE partition at sda1. The update from build 162 to 240 (RTM) just downloaded and created a 4.5GB hidden windows directory for the update, so only had a few GB to spare with 30GB... Still not sure if the rtm version will be a giveaway or expire..will see in a few months, else I'll just stick windows 7 back on and update. -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° LFCS, SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890) SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 GNOME 3.10.1 Kernel 3.12.43-52.6-default up 9 days 15:49, 4 users, load average: 0.23, 0.30, 0.30 CPU AMD A4-5150M APU @ 3.3GHz | GPU Richland Radeon HD 8350G -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 12:18:26 -0500 Malcolm <malcolmlewis@cableone.net> wrote:
On Wed 22 Jul 2015 09:40:49 AM CDT, Thomas Taylor wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 21:16:55 +0200 "andredo@wxs.nl" <AdenOudsten@wxs.nl> wrote:
At the end of this month I can windows 7 on my laptop upgrade to Windows 10 with undoubtly it's UEFI-BIOS. Wil my openSUSE 13.1 survive that? And if not how can I then install 13.1 again? T.i.a.
André den Oudsten
Having "upgraded" MS versions many times in the past in multi-boot systems can say there are some "gotchas" on MS part.
First, openSuSE has an UEFI shim so that shouldn't be a problem.
Next, MS tends to try to use the "ENTIRE" physical drive by default. One has to do some gymnastics to get that changed. So far only the ßeta version of MS 10 is available and it doesn't have any option but "whole drive". Hopefully the public release will revert to old way.
Hi That isn't true (well I've only used uefi), I have windows 10 installed on a 30GB partition from the beta (well it's the rtm version now). I used the custom install and told it where to go. It does play nice with other operating systems on UEFI and happily creates it's directories for the uefi install. I tried both ways, windows 10, then Tumbleweed. Then next update did it the other way without issues. I also ensured nvram efi entries were cleaned out, and had a pre-partitioned setup since it's only a 128GB SSD.
Nice thing about the later HP ProBooks is adding a 'custom' boot option to add the shim entry in and set custom to boot first. I can also do this on an ASUS K53U test system as well.
Now in saying the above the very first beta I installed I let it use the whole drive to see what it would do. It does want a 300MB RE partition at sda1.
The update from build 162 to 240 (RTM) just downloaded and created a 4.5GB hidden windows directory for the update, so only had a few GB to spare with 30GB... Still not sure if the rtm version will be a giveaway or expire..will see in a few months, else I'll just stick windows 7 back on and update.
Hi André, Your version 162 was a later version than I experimented with (107) which did not have much in install options and was released to us hams (kg7cfc) for testing. Guess they're finally deciding to begin playing nicer with other OS's. Tom -- When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. - Anonymous ^^ --... ...-- / -.- --. --... -.-. ..-. -.-. ^^^^ Tom Taylor KG7CFC openSUSE 13.1 (64-bit), Kernel 3.11.6-4-default, KDE 4.11.2, AMD A8-7600, GeForce GTX 740 T/PCIe/ 16GB RAM -- 3x1.5TB sata2 -- 128GB-SSD FF 37.0, claws-mail 3.10.1 registered linux user 263467 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Thomas Taylor composed on 2015-07-22 09:40 (UTC-0700):
Having "upgraded" MS versions many times in the past in multi-boot systems can say there are some "gotchas" on MS part.
First, openSuSE has an UEFI shim so that shouldn't be a problem.
Next, MS tends to try to use the "ENTIRE" physical drive by default.
That only applies if you provide it an entire physical drive to do with as it pleases, not if you don't.
One has to do some gymnastics to get that changed.
It's not at all complicated. Simply partition before booting the installation media, then it will ask where you want it to install, and you tell it, no more difficult than deciding the best choice to make in YaST's first partitioning step at openSUSE installation time.
Another problem will be the bootloader. MS ALWAYS but boot code in the MBR track, meaning you will at minimum need to re-create a new bootloader for multi-boot.
Neither are correct, at least for BIOS systems. For those it puts legacy-compatible code in the MBR sector, leaving the rest of the MBR track untouched. If legacy-compatible code is already in the MBR sector, it doesn't change it. Most of my installations actually use IBM OS/2 MBR code. Windows (through v7 at least) is perfectly content to leave it alone and boot as if it had installed its own MBR code. Multiboot does not depend on alternative boot code in either MBR sector or sectors immediately following. Legacy-compatible boot code searches for an active primary partition on BIOS HD0, and if only one is found, it transfers control to it (if !=1, then it produces an error message and halts). So, Windows boot normally proceeds based upon what is in the active primary partition's boot sector, only indirectly on account of code in MBR. It works the same way for Linux similarly configured, which is how all my many multiboot systems work, Grub is on PBR for / filesystems, not on MBR, plus Grub is on PBR of a primary, which will chainload a Windows non-active primary, or any Linux / partition with Grub in its PBR. None of my installations have any non-legacy-compatible bootloader code in MBR sector or sectors immediately following. Most are virtually always booting Linux, Windows maybe once or twice a month, sometimes months at a time not at all.
The above having been said, you may or may not need to re-install OS 13.1 depending on how friendly (Unfriendly?) MS decides to be.
Mere minutes ago I completed installation (and some hours of updates and reboots) from Win7 DVD on a system with working 13.1, 13.2 & TW installations. Windows installation had zero impact on Grub or its ability to boot Linux, once I moved the primary partition boot flag back from sda1 to sda3. As Windows' bootloader has the capability to in effect chainload any primary partition, if you configure it to do so, then the boot flag can be left set on the Windows primary, and Windows bootloader can load Grub to get Linux booted. This is that fresh Win7 installation's partitioning: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Dfsee/dfsLmalco722.txt -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (13)
-
andredo＠wxs.nl -
Anton Aylward -
Billie Walsh -
Carlos E. R. -
Felix Miata -
Greg Freemyer -
James Knott -
jdd -
Jos van Kan -
Leen de Braal -
Malcolm -
Ottavio Caruso -
Thomas Taylor