Hi everybody, I use LyX (version 1.3.7 in SUSE 10.0) to generate technical documentation; I think this program is great. A few days ago, new LyX version (1.4.0) has been released, so I ask: ¿Are there some intentions to include this new version in SUSE next edition (10.1, of course)? -- ¡Share your knowledge! Linux user id 332494 # http://counter.li.org/ PGP id 0xC5ABA76A # http://pgp.mit.edu/
Op maandag 13 maart 2006 16:52, schreef Kunael:
Hi everybody,
I use LyX (version 1.3.7 in SUSE 10.0) to generate technical documentation; I think this program is great. A few days ago, new LyX version (1.4.0) has been released, so I ask:
¿Are there some intentions to include this new version in SUSE next edition (10.1, of course)?
There is a version-freeze since beta1(?) so I don think so. But you probably can update soon after 10.1 comes out. Azerion
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, Kunael wrote:
Hi everybody,
I use LyX (version 1.3.7 in SUSE 10.0) to generate technical documentation; I think this program is great. A few days ago, new LyX version (1.4.0) has been released, so I ask:
I used LyX for many years - I found it invaluable.
¿Are there some intentions to include this new version in SUSE next edition (10.1, of course)?
So late in the beta period for 10.1 I would be surprised to see them
update the version. However, by that same measure I wouldn't think that
getting it into 10.2 would be especially difficult. In either case, you
can try filing a bug requesting that the software be updated to 1.4.0. I
think that officially you are supposed to edit the wiki or something but
I found that very cumbersome and honestly have /no idea/ why that
mechanism is used instead of (the vastly more appropriate, IMO)
bugzilla. Best of luck!
--
Carpe diem - Seize the day.
Carp in denim - There's a fish in my pants!
Jon Nelson
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 10:00:12AM -0600, Jon Nelson wrote:
I found that very cumbersome and honestly have /no idea/ why that mechanism is used instead of (the vastly more appropriate, IMO) bugzilla. Best of luck!
I like the WIKI editing better, because it has all the things together. The wiki is just for programs that are not included, not for version updates. I also do not think that version updates belong on Bugzilla. SUSE will use the then current version when 10.2 comes out. Wether that will be 1.4.0 or 1.4.7 or 2.3.4 will depend on the program makers themselves. So no real need to tell the makers a new version is available (please correct me if I am wrong) houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
houghi wrote:
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 10:00:12AM -0600, Jon Nelson wrote:
I found that very cumbersome and honestly have /no idea/ why that mechanism is used instead of (the vastly more appropriate, IMO) bugzilla. Best of luck!
I like the WIKI editing better, because it has all the things together. The wiki is just for programs that are not included, not for version updates. I also do not think that version updates belong on Bugzilla.
SUSE will use the then current version when 10.2 comes out. Wether that will be 1.4.0 or 1.4.7 or 2.3.4 will depend on the program makers themselves.
So no real need to tell the makers a new version is available (please correct me if I am wrong)
That's what 3rd party repositories (packman, mine, usr-local-bin,
....) are for.
--
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, Pascal Bleser wrote:
houghi wrote:
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 10:00:12AM -0600, Jon Nelson wrote:
I found that very cumbersome and honestly have /no idea/ why that mechanism is used instead of (the vastly more appropriate, IMO) bugzilla. Best of luck!
I like the WIKI editing better, because it has all the things together. The wiki is just for programs that are not included, not for version updates. I also do not think that version updates belong on Bugzilla.
SUSE will use the then current version when 10.2 comes out. Wether that will be 1.4.0 or 1.4.7 or 2.3.4 will depend on the program makers themselves.
So no real need to tell the makers a new version is available (please correct me if I am wrong)
That's what 3rd party repositories (packman, mine, usr-local-bin, ....) are for.
I look to the 3rd party repositories to two things:
1. packages that suse (can not, will not, has not yet) included.
2. packages that are normally included by SUSE but have been updated
since.
Examples would include k3b (bullet point 2), the latest gnucash/kmymoney
(also bullet point 2), but also things that SUSE cannot or will not
include.
Start of rant (NOTE: This is just how I feel, but I'm not especially
passionate about it):
For something like LyX, clearly if there is enough want for an updated
version, some 3rd party repository will include it. However, when (for
example) SUSE 10.2 is being prepared, I can only assume that the finite
resources available to SUSE would not include finding and packaging the
latest version of every single package. I don't see bugzilla as *just*
*BUGS* (ie, flaws) but also "issue tracker". No, strictly speaking LyX
1.4.0 being out when 1.3.7 is packaged isn't a /bug/, but I don't see
why it's crazy to ask users to file enhancement bugs requesting 1.4.0
"or the latest version at this time" for 10.2, such that when 10.2
*does* start getting some work, that the list of current /issues/ (not
bugs) can be viewed, prioritized, and handled. Having issues in
multiple, completely different locations (wikis, mailing lists, postit
notes, bugzilla, backs of napkins) does NOT improve efficiency.
End of rant.
--
Carpe diem - Seize the day.
Carp in denim - There's a fish in my pants!
Jon Nelson
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 10:53:55AM -0600, Jon Nelson wrote:
However, when (for example) SUSE 10.2 is being prepared, I can only assume that the finite resources available to SUSE would not include finding and packaging the latest version of every single package.
As far as I understand, that is exactly what SUSE is doing. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
Jon Nelson wrote:
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, Pascal Bleser wrote: [...]
That's what 3rd party repositories (packman, mine, usr-local-bin, ....) are for. [...] For something like LyX, clearly if there is enough want for an updated version, some 3rd party repository will include it. However, when (for [...]
BTW, lyx 1.4.0 is in my repository:
http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/rpm-navigation.php?cat=/Office/lyx
http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/suser-guru/rpm/packages/Office/lyx/
http://ftp.skynet.be/pub/suser-guru/rpm/packages/Office/lyx/
Report and bugs, issues, wishes to me.
cheers
--
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\
BTW, lyx 1.4.0 is in my repository: http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/rpm-navigation.php?cat=/Office/lyx http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/suser-guru/rpm/packages/Office/lyx/ http://ftp.skynet.be/pub/suser-guru/rpm/packages/Office/lyx/
Great! Two days ago I tried to build appropiate RPM from checkinstall, but I got errors in the end of the process.
Report and bugs, issues, wishes to me.
Sure :) I will. -- ¡Share your knowledge! Linux user id 332494 # http://counter.li.org/ PGP id 0xC5ABA76A # http://pgp.mit.edu/
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, Pascal Bleser wrote:
houghi wrote:
I like the WIKI editing better, because it has all the things together. The wiki is just for programs that are not included, not for version updates. I also do not think that version updates belong on Bugzilla.
SUSE will use the then current version when 10.2 comes out. Wether that will be 1.4.0 or 1.4.7 or 2.3.4 will depend on the program makers themselves.
So no real need to tell the makers a new version is available (please correct me if I am wrong)
That's what 3rd party repositories (packman, mine, usr-local-bin, ....) are for.
Exactly. One of the things I love about linux (and SuSE) is that I can update on my own. There is no problem with this *except* that you then have to check the home site of the program every so often and look for bug fixes and security updates. To have a system just the way you want it, a little work is needed. But not too much. ---- Paul J. Gans
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 01:00:53PM -0500, Paul J. Gans wrote:
One of the things I love about linux (and SuSE) is that I can update on my own. There is no problem with this *except* that you then have to check the home site of the program every so often and look for bug fixes and security updates.
To have a system just the way you want it, a little work is needed. But not too much.
It is one of the (small) disadvatages. When I add something with YAST from Packman or SUSE, it also installs software that won't be updated with YOU. What I do is see what packages I can use from SUSE itself and downgrade those again to the ones from SUSE, so they will be updated in case of a security update. My personal choice is that I rather have a program that has automagic security updates then a program with feature X. This only if I do not need feature X to get the program to do what I want it to do. It would be nice if there would be a way to have YOU look for (security) updates of those other files as well on the extra repo-site. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, houghi wrote:
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 01:00:53PM -0500, Paul J. Gans wrote:
One of the things I love about linux (and SuSE) is that I can update on my own. There is no problem with this *except* that you then have to check the home site of the program every so often and look for bug fixes and security updates.
To have a system just the way you want it, a little work is needed. But not too much.
It is one of the (small) disadvatages. When I add something with YAST from Packman or SUSE, it also installs software that won't be updated with YOU. What I do is see what packages I can use from SUSE itself and downgrade those again to the ones from SUSE, so they will be updated in case of a security update.
My personal choice is that I rather have a program that has automagic security updates then a program with feature X. This only if I do not need feature X to get the program to do what I want it to do.
I agree. But sometimes...
It would be nice if there would be a way to have YOU look for (security) updates of those other files as well on the extra repo-site.
That should be possible, but I think it is not a SuSE project. What would be needed is an open standard that sites could follow to signal that an update is available. Then one could build programs to check that, manually or automatically. But this is not on topic here. ---- Paul J. Gans
Paul J. Gans wrote:
That should be possible, but I think it is not a SuSE project. What would be needed is an open standard that sites could follow to signal that an update is available.
that's not really how it works. security patches have to be done by somebody. somebody trustfull. this is a lot of work. and it has to be done for any *nix flavor... nearly impossible. Security update is one of the main reason to stay with a distribution. and don't be paranoid, LyX security breaches should not be that dangerous... if you don't use it as root. time ago (not so long :-), SUSE LyX rpm where done by a LyX user. If ever it happened that a fool could take this work and setup a trojan horse in the application he package, there would be little to do. install the rpm, all is nice. two months later.. Boom. two days after, we would have the patch, but the harm could be done. and so? nothing to do. keep backups... :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 11:11:23PM +0100, jdd wrote:
security patches have to be done by somebody. somebody trustfull. this is a lot of work. and it has to be done for any *nix flavor... nearly impossible.
I trust the additional repositories I added. Otherwise I would not have added them and install software they have build. So it would be nice if there is a way to recognise automagically when a new version is available on these servers and if that was invoked by YOU. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
houghi wrote:
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 11:11:23PM +0100, jdd wrote:
security patches have to be done by somebody. somebody trustfull. this is a lot of work. and it has to be done for any *nix flavor... nearly impossible.
I trust the additional repositories I added. Otherwise I would not have added them and install software they have build. So it would be nice if there is a way to recognise automagically when a new version is available on these servers and if that was invoked by YOU.
houghi but they don't build security patches. New versions is all an other thing, with new dependencies...
jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
Hello, jdd wrote:
I trust the additional repositories I added. Otherwise I would not have added them and install software they have build. So it would be nice if there is a way to recognise automagically when a new version is available on these servers and if that was invoked by YOU.
but they don't build security patches. New versions is all an other thing, with new dependencies...
They do. At least by Packman there is a new version from the different media players almost the next day a vulnerability was published. And when I found a buffer overflow problem (by using the fortify option at compilation time) they fixed the code and sent patches upstream. In summary: they take care of security to, not just new versions. Bye, -- CzP http://peter.czanik.hu/
Peter Czanik wrote:
In summary: they take care of security to, not just new versions. Bye,
very fine :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, houghi wrote:
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 10:00:12AM -0600, Jon Nelson wrote:
I found that very cumbersome and honestly have /no idea/ why that mechanism is used instead of (the vastly more appropriate, IMO) bugzilla. Best of luck!
I like the WIKI editing better, because it has all the things together.
What does that mean, "all the things together"? It has no tracking, no
assignment, no dates, no nothing. Anybody can edit it and remove it.
Yes, it has "history" but there is no reasonable way to discuss
anything.
--
Carpe diem - Seize the day.
Carp in denim - There's a fish in my pants!
Jon Nelson
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 10:45:46AM -0600, Jon Nelson wrote:
What does that mean, "all the things together"? It has no tracking, no assignment, no dates, no nothing. Anybody can edit it and remove it. Yes, it has "history" but there is no reasonable way to discuss anything.
It is a list of programs that are wanted by people. Much better then bugzilla where you do not have such a list. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, houghi wrote:
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 10:45:46AM -0600, Jon Nelson wrote:
What does that mean, "all the things together"? It has no tracking, no assignment, no dates, no nothing. Anybody can edit it and remove it. Yes, it has "history" but there is no reasonable way to discuss anything.
It is a list of programs that are wanted by people. Much better then bugzilla where you do not have such a list.
How hard is it to construct a query to display such a list? It doesn't
seem that hard to me.
--
Carpe diem - Seize the day.
Carp in denim - There's a fish in my pants!
Jon Nelson
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 12:42:32PM -0600, Jon Nelson wrote:
How hard is it to construct a query to display such a list? It doesn't seem that hard to me.
It does for me, especially when you compare it to a simple link. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, houghi wrote:
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 12:42:32PM -0600, Jon Nelson wrote:
How hard is it to construct a query to display such a list? It doesn't seem that hard to me.
It does for me, especially when you compare it to a simple link.
Why can't the wiki have a [single] link to a pre-built query?
Or better yet, why can't the wiki have a page that is pre-generated from
a query (say, every 6 hours)? The benefit here is non-negligible here,
but making it easier for SUSE folks to do their job certainly doesn't
hurt, and the wiki provides almost none of the things that make a bug
(or 'issue') tracking system attractive here. Whatever, I'm not going
to convince you, let's let it just end here.
--
Carpe diem - Seize the day.
Carp in denim - There's a fish in my pants!
Jon Nelson
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 02:04:32PM -0600, Jon Nelson wrote:
Why can't the wiki have a [single] link to a pre-built query?
No idea. If this would be possible, it might be the best of both worlds. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
Jon Nelson wrote:
Why can't the wiki have a [single] link to a pre-built query? Or better yet, why can't the wiki have a page that is pre-generated from a query (say, every 6 hours)? The benefit here is non-negligible here, but making it easier for SUSE folks to do their job certainly doesn't hurt, and the wiki provides almost none of the things that make a bug (or 'issue') tracking system attractive here. Whatever, I'm not going to convince you, let's let it just end here.
could you make your idea clearer? there are some ways to add things to mediawiki (extensions, wikibots), but for now buzilla is closed and will stay so. so what is exactly your idea? thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
Hello, Am Montag, 13. März 2006 21:39 schrieb jdd:
Jon Nelson wrote:
Why can't the wiki have a [single] link to a pre-built query? Or better yet, why can't the wiki have a page that is pre-generated from a query (say, every 6 hours)? The benefit here is non-negligible here, but making it easier for SUSE folks to do their job certainly doesn't hurt, and the wiki provides almost none of the things that make a bug (or 'issue') tracking system attractive here. Whatever, I'm not going to convince you, let's let it just end here.
could you make your idea clearer? there are some ways to add things to mediawiki (extensions, wikibots), but for now buzilla is closed and will stay so.
But you can query it without logging in and see at least the bugs with no permission restrictions (aka "what most openSUSE users see even when logged in") - so: not really a problem ;-)
so what is exactly your idea?
May I point you to the last status meeting? A similar topic (handling of Action Items) was discussed there, you will also find possible solutions for the bugzilla - wiki pipe: http://en.opensuse.org/2006-03-07-status-meeting [ BTW: any volunteers for completing the meeting minutes? ;-) jdd, could you write the minutes about the additional wiki languages, please? ] http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Status_Meeting_2006-03-07/transcript Basic idea: Bugzilla can export queries as RSS/XML/... - we only need someone who writes a wiki plugin to convert this to wiki syntax or HTML. Regards, Christian Boltz -- Vielleicht habe ich ja Glück und fang mir eine tödliche Krankheit ein, dann kann ich das Rauchen wieder anfangen. [Ratti in fontlinge-devel]
Christian Boltz wrote:
May I point you to the last status meeting? A similar topic (handling of Action Items) was discussed there, you will also find possible solutions for the bugzilla - wiki pipe:
I followed the meeting and got the idea that bugzilla admin don't want to do anything to promote bugzilla for other than strict bug report... and that more is investigated... but my english is not that good :-( jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
SUSE will use the then current version when 10.2 comes out. Wether that will be 1.4.0 or 1.4.7 or 2.3.4 will depend on the program makers themselves.
OK, good news for me.
So no real need to tell the makers a new version is available (please correct me if I am wrong)
Ok. Indeed, in the /contrib directory of public LyX ftp server there are rpm(s) for SUSE 9.2/9.3 (x86 arquitecture) and for 10.0 (x86_64 arquitecture). Even though SUSE developers will not include this last version, it would be avaiable from LyX project. I supose, of course :P -- ¡Share your knowledge! Linux user id 332494 # http://counter.li.org/ PGP id 0xC5ABA76A # http://pgp.mit.edu/
* Kunael (kunael4@yahoo.es) [20060313 16:53]:
¿Are there some intentions to include this new version in SUSE next edition (10.1, of course)?
It's far too late to do a version update. Open a new bug in https://bugzilla.novel.com with severity 'Enhancement' asking for an update for the next version of SUSE Linux. Normally our maintainers do update their packages when possible. Philipp
participants (10)
-
Azerion -
Christian Boltz -
houghi -
jdd -
Jon Nelson -
Kunael -
Pascal Bleser -
Paul J. Gans -
Peter Czanik -
Philipp Thomas