[opensuse] KDE 4 vs Gnome vs Windows
Since a came from a Windows environment, I picked KDE 3 for coming closest. What comes closest now (XP or win7) - KDE 4 or Gnome ? I want to, also, upgrade my brother-in-law who used to be on XP - he's now on KDE 3 Thanks, Duaine -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 dahechler@att.net www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com -- Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 02:39, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Since a came from a Windows environment, I picked KDE 3 for coming closest.
What comes closest now (XP or win7) - KDE 4 or Gnome ?
I want to, also, upgrade my brother-in-law who used to be on XP - he's now on KDE 3
That's almost impossible to answer... each DE has its strengths and weaknesses in terms of how big/small the step is from Windows.... it's also VERY subjective. You can set up either DE to be remarkably like Windows 7 and XP... I've seen some very impressive XP skins for Gnome... where you have to really look to see it's not XP... and KDE4 is somewhat similar to Win7 (especially KDE4.5)... but also far enough away to be "new" to a new user. Ultimately both are easy enough for a new user to use that you can pick whichever one you, as the primary support person, are comfortable with. In my case, I show both to people, and then let them choose. Most coming from Windows have picked KDE4... it feels closer to what they came from. Since they aren't advanced users they rarely bump into the bugs and annoyances that were yatter on about on the mailing list here. Overall that's been a fairly successful approach that results in reasonably happy users. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2010-08-01 at 19:39 -0500, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Since a came from a Windows environment, I picked KDE 3 for coming closest. What comes closest now (XP or win7) - KDE 4 or Gnome ?
Neither, this question is too vague to have anything like a concrete or substantive answer. [Define "closest"]
I want to, also, upgrade my brother-in-law who used to be on XP - he's now on KDE 3
--
Adam Tauno Williams
On 2010/08/01 19:39 (GMT-0500) Duaine Hechler composed:
Since a came from a Windows environment, I picked KDE 3 for coming closest.
What comes closest now (XP or win7) - KDE 4 or Gnome ?
I've never seen much resemblance between any Win and Gnome, but I rarely touch Gnome. In *buntu I always use Kubuntu, but by far I prefer openSUSE with KDE to *buntu.
I want to, also, upgrade my brother-in-law who used to be on XP - he's now on KDE 3
Are you sure you want to? Does he know he wants to? Are you familiar with how much has changed? KDE3 repos are available for 11.s once installation is complete. Three times in the past week I installed 11.2 minimal text, added KDE3 & other optional repos (e.g. packman, mozilla, VideoLan), added enough of KDE3 with zypper to run KDE3, then used YaST2 to finish adding needed programs and the rest of KDE3. I figure by KDE 4.6 in oS 11.4(?) it should be enough like KDE3 to give it a try. http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2010-07/msg01847.html tells more about those recent 11.2 installs. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 08/01/2010 07:39 PM, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Since a came from a Windows environment, I picked KDE 3 for coming closest.
What comes closest now (XP or win7) - KDE 4 or Gnome ?
I want to, also, upgrade my brother-in-law who used to be on XP - he's now on KDE 3
Thanks, Duaine
Duaine, (My $.02 from someone in the document business - other will have their own opinions that will no-doubt differ) Stay with kde3 in 11.3 or go with gnome. kde4, while getting better, is still way to fluid for a serious daily driver. If he/she is coming from windows to linux, set up gnome, it is has come along way in 2.3.x and while it is undergoing serious development as well, the direction it is headed is a know quantity. I can't comment on win7, still haven't seen a need for it on the win side of the house. Neither it or Vista offer anything material that can't be done in XP and XP is nearly static at this point (a known quantity). I'd never advocate a windows install for the person, unless he/she has critical document, spreadsheet, presentation requirements. OpenOffice is getting very close to being acceptable in its 3.x versions, but I still have way too many Word documents that open up all F'ed up in OO to be able to rely on it as an exclusive solution for my document needs. (nothing like pulling up an old word document in OO at 3:15 that must be modified and filed by 5:00 for a client and finding all the text has magically switch to strike-through fonts on the latest OO.... to be without a copy of Windows and Word handy....) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
David, That was pretty much my gut feeling too. By default, does Gnome have the plain desktop like KDE 3 (in other words, not in a folder on the desktop like KDE 4) Duaine David C. Rankin wrote:
On 08/01/2010 07:39 PM, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Since a came from a Windows environment, I picked KDE 3 for coming closest.
What comes closest now (XP or win7) - KDE 4 or Gnome ?
I want to, also, upgrade my brother-in-law who used to be on XP - he's now on KDE 3
Thanks, Duaine
Duaine,
(My $.02 from someone in the document business - other will have their own opinions that will no-doubt differ)
Stay with kde3 in 11.3 or go with gnome. kde4, while getting better, is still way to fluid for a serious daily driver. If he/she is coming from windows to linux, set up gnome, it is has come along way in 2.3.x and while it is undergoing serious development as well, the direction it is headed is a know quantity.
I can't comment on win7, still haven't seen a need for it on the win side of the house. Neither it or Vista offer anything material that can't be done in XP and XP is nearly static at this point (a known quantity). I'd never advocate a windows install for the person, unless he/she has critical document, spreadsheet, presentation requirements. OpenOffice is getting very close to being acceptable in its 3.x versions, but I still have way too many Word documents that open up all F'ed up in OO to be able to rely on it as an exclusive solution for my document needs.
(nothing like pulling up an old word document in OO at 3:15 that must be modified and filed by 5:00 for a client and finding all the text has magically switch to strike-through fonts on the latest OO.... to be without a copy of Windows and Word handy....)
-- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 dahechler@att.net www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com -- Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 10:52 -0500, Duaine Hechler wrote:
David, That was pretty much my gut feeling too. By default, does Gnome have the plain desktop like KDE 3 (in other words, not in a folder on the desktop like KDE 4)
I use a GNOME desktop 8 - 10 hours a day... and I have no idea what this
question means.
How is the desktop "in a folder on the desktop"? The desktop is the
desktop; it is a folder in the underlying file=system, but most users
will never care about that. It can be any folder you set it to.
--
Adam Tauno Williams
On 2010/08/02 11:55 (GMT-0400) Adam Tauno Williams composed:
On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 10:52 -0500, Duaine Hechler wrote:
By default, does Gnome have the plain desktop like KDE 3 (in other words, not in a folder on the desktop like KDE 4)
I use a GNOME desktop 8 - 10 hours a day... and I have no idea what this question means.
How is the desktop "in a folder on the desktop"? The desktop is the desktop; it is a folder in the underlying file=system, but most users will never care about that. It can be any folder you set it to.
Yet another question for the opensuse-kde list. ;-) Lord only knows what the KDE devs were thinking when they created that thing. They thought up this notion of activities, and the desktop folder on what most puter people have always called a desktop has to do with that paradigm that only Mensa-class brains seem to be able to comprehend. I use different desktops for different activities, like probably most multitaskers, so can't imagine a need for a third layer of segregation, or how apps could possibly cope with extra abstractions. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 12:08 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2010/08/02 11:55 (GMT-0400) Adam Tauno Williams composed:
On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 10:52 -0500, Duaine Hechler wrote:
By default, does Gnome have the plain desktop like KDE 3 (in other words, not in a folder on the desktop like KDE 4) I use a GNOME desktop 8 - 10 hours a day... and I have no idea what this question means. How is the desktop "in a folder on the desktop"? The desktop is the desktop; it is a folder in the underlying file=system, but most users will never care about that. It can be any folder you set it to. Yet another question for the opensuse-kde list. ;-)
No commentary on KDE 3, KDE 4, or KDE 7 was intended, explicit or
implied. Please do not read my message that way - what I meant was
strictly that the wording "the desktop in a folder on the desktop"
didn't make any sense.
I don't use KDE4, didn't use KDE3, and have no opinion at all about KDE
[except, perhaps, that KDE people seem extremely argumentative and
malcontent; we GNOME people are far more fun-loving and care-free].
--
Adam Tauno Williams
I don't use KDE4, didn't use KDE3, and have no opinion at all about KDE [except,
On Monday 02 August 2010 19:10:58 Adam Tauno Williams wrote: perhaps, that KDE people seem extremely argumentative and
malcontent; we GNOME people are far more fun-loving and care-free].
That's not acceptable. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2010-08-03 at 15:49 +0400, Илья Черных wrote:
we GNOME people are far more fun-loving and care-free]. Until Gnome3, perhaps?
There will certainly be people who complain; I won't be one of them.
People who are rigidly attached to their legacy workflow will
undoubtedly jump ship to something like LXDE. Some small minority of
them will view this as a kind of betrayal [which is totally
unjustifiable as it implies there was a commitment made to them] and
make a disproportionate amount of noise.
The direction of GNOME3 makes sense. Zeitgeist
http://live.gnome.org/Zeitgeist and GNOME Activity Journal
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeActivityJournal offers a much more natural
[and scalable] way to work [much like the improvement provided by
Beagle/Tracker http://live.gnome.org/Tracker/WhatIsTracker over the
many-many-folders model]. And the desktop needs to evolve to deal with
the fusion of [fat-]local/web/'cloud' applications.
I've run GNOME3-preview. It works pretty well, but I'm glad they
delayed release until mid-2011.
--
Adam Tauno Williams
That was pretty much my gut feeling too.
By default, does Gnome have the plain desktop
words, not in a folder on the desktop like KDE
On Monday 02 August 2010 17:52:19 Duaine Hechler wrote: like KDE 3 (in other 4) Duaine You can have the icons on the desktop like in KDE 3 in KDE 4. It's explained here: (and also linked from the greeter popup on first login to KDE 4 on openSUSE) http://help.opensuse.org/kde4/ Configure System Settings to Tree view mode and the K Menu to classic and you're pretty familiar right there. There is also an XP widget style and window decoration style in the default install. FWIW I think David is still being overly cautious in his assessment. KDE is now on its 5th release in the KDE 4 cycle (6th come 4.5 on Thursday) and the rate of obvious change has slowed a lot, particularly regarding the desktop shell. It's still higher than GNOME 2 or KDE 3's rates of change, of course. For a Windows user, I'd say either KDE release will feel familiar, if only because of the use of Ok/Cancel vs Instant Apply in dialogs and the button order. Will
David C. Rankin wrote:
On 08/01/2010 07:39 PM, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Since a came from a Windows environment, I picked KDE 3 for coming
closest.
What comes closest now (XP or win7) - KDE 4 or Gnome ?
I want to, also, upgrade my brother-in-law who used to be on XP -
he's
now on KDE 3
Thanks, Duaine
Duaine,
(My $.02 from someone in the document business - other will have their own opinions that will no-doubt differ)
Stay with kde3 in 11.3 or go with gnome. kde4, while getting
better, is still way to fluid for a serious daily driver. If he/she is coming from windows to linux, set up gnome, it is has come along way in 2.3.x and while it is undergoing serious development as well, the direction it is headed is a know quantity.
I can't comment on win7, still haven't seen a need for it on the
win side of the house. Neither it or Vista offer anything material that can't be done in XP and XP is nearly static at this point (a known quantity). I'd never advocate a windows install for the person, unless he/she has critical document, spreadsheet, presentation requirements. OpenOffice is getting very close to being acceptable in its 3.x versions, but I still have way too many Word documents that open up all F'ed up in OO to be able to rely on it as an exclusive solution for my document needs.
(nothing like pulling up an old word document in OO at 3:15 that
must be modified and filed by 5:00 for a client and finding all the text has magically switch to strike-through fonts on the latest OO.... to be without a copy of Windows and Word handy....)
-- Will Stephenson, KDE Developer, openSUSE Boosters Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Duaine Hechler said the following on 08/01/2010 08:39 PM:
Since a came from a Windows environment, I picked KDE 3 for coming closest.
What comes closest now (XP or win7) - KDE 4 or Gnome ?
I want to, also, upgrade my brother-in-law who used to be on XP - he's now on KDE 3
I'm not sure it matters. I've friends and clients that I see running everything from W98 to W7 - Desktop - and some clients with various server releases where stuff like networking is quite different. I've seen the vast differences between releases of MS-Office. The difference between them all and between any of them an either Gnome or KDE4 isn't so great as to confound a reasonably intelligent person. There seem to be a lot of people who have moved from Windows to the MAC with no problems, and those seem more widely separated than XP or later and Gnome or KDE. The real world is that we use applications, not the operating system. The difference between Outlook and any of Thunderbird, KMail and Evolution will matter more. Or perhaps your BiL uses Thunderbird so it doesn't matter what platform its on. The same logic goes for MS-Office and OpenOffice. I use the former at client sites and the latter at home and on my laptop. The difference never trips me up. -- Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. -- Voltaire -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
You have already rcvd some good replies . . . my two cents: As has long been generally true - and making allowances for subjectivity - Gnome is a simpler environment; that is by design. KDE is more powerful and flexible but at a cost of more complexity; again, by design. KDE3 is more mature than KDE4, with KDE4 not fully reaching parity (again, this is subjective) until 4.5. It will be interesting to see how Gnome 3 navigates between its traditional focus and its embrace of more advanced technologies. From a UI perspective, KDE 3 is probably closest to XP while KDE 4 is closer to W7. But keep in mind that KDE, both versions 3 and 4, can with a bit of effort be given a look-and-feel pretty much however you want it to (the "desktop folder" and "desktop activities" aka multiple-desktops, are optional and non-issues). For that matter, so can several of the other DE's; see LXDE now supported by openSUSE which (last I looked) has very much an XP flavor. Having said that, IMO what is most important is your brother-in-law's "use case", i.e., how does he interact with the system and in particular, what applications does he use. My wife, who is very non-technical, has moved without problem from Mac to XP to Gnome to KDE3 to KDE4. That's because 99% of the time her use is limited to an email client, a browser, an audio player, a video player, and a word processor. She does occasionally need to use a Windows-only app, which is nicely handled by running XP in a VirtualBox virtual machine in seamless mode. She wouldn't even begin to think about getting into OS utilities or configuration, etc. If your B-i-L is like this "average" user, then which apps and their compatibility and their stability, will be by far most important. On the other hand, if he is an intermediate level hands-on user who manages the OS, installs and configures hardware, etc., then it might be best to just install both DE's and let him have a look. IMO, a huge advantage in openSUSE that goes a long way towards mitigating the differences between Gnome and KDE, is YaST. Over in Ubuntu land, there is still a heckuva lot of sysadmin done at the command line. KDE comes with more configuration utilities, but still far from covering everything. YaST largely fills these gaps regardless of DE. Given that, anyone with a modicum of technical acumen should be able to handle either Gnome or KDE, and so it then comes down to just personal preference - which is what you see reflected on this mailing list, since most here are at least intermediate if not advanced users. Again, just my two cents.
Since a came from a Windows environment, I picked KDE 3 for coming closest.
What comes closest now (XP or win7) - KDE 4 or Gnome ?
I want to, also, upgrade my brother-in-law who used to be on XP - he's now on KDE 3
Thanks, Duaine
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 02/08/2010 10:39, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Since a came from a Windows environment, I picked KDE 3 for coming closest.
What comes closest now (XP or win7) - KDE 4 or Gnome ?
I want to, also, upgrade my brother-in-law who used to be on XP - he's now on KDE 3
Thanks, Duaine
Duaine, if you want to see what a gnome desktop can be made to look I've put together what I have (at the moment). The links are to the desktop as it normally looks (Duaine1) and as it looks if I did not autohide the top and bottom panels (which, of course, appear when I put the mouse cursor at the top or bottom of the screen) (Duaine2). This is how I like it - but there are almost infinite ways of configuring your gnome desktop. The links for the screenshots: http://picpaste.com/Duaine1.jpg http://picpaste.com/Duaine2.jpg At the top are the applications etc I use daily, and the bottom are the desktops (bottom right) which I open to execute whatever applications I use. BC -- If nothing happens, nothing can go wrong. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
What comes closest now (XP or win7) - KDE 4 or Gnome ? Gnome of course. But not as close as KDE4. There is also Xfce and LXDE. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Adam Tauno Williams -
Anton Aylward -
Basil Chupin -
C -
David C. Rankin -
Duaine Hechler -
dwgallien -
Felix Miata -
Will Stephenson -
Илья Черных