[opensuse] inexplicable zilla issues
[12.1] zypper rm MozillaFirefox wants to install MozillaThunderbird Anyone know why? Anyone know why these packages use caps, or prepend Mozilla to the actual program name? Fedora doesn't. Mageia doesn't. No other distro I can remember does it. All distros providing them, except for openSUSE, AFAIK are content with packages named firefox and thunderbird. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 30/03/13 14:44, Felix Miata wrote:
[12.1] zypper rm MozillaFirefox wants to install MozillaThunderbird
Anyone know why?
Because.
Anyone know why these packages use caps, or prepend Mozilla to the actual program name? Fedora doesn't. Mageia doesn't. No other distro I can remember does it. All distros providing them, except for openSUSE, AFAIK are content with packages named firefox and thunderbird.
:-) BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.5-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am 30.03.2013 04:44, schrieb Felix Miata:
[12.1] zypper rm MozillaFirefox wants to install MozillaThunderbird
Anyone know why?
No, I do not see any reason for it. Do you have any more details from the output.
Anyone know why these packages use caps, or prepend Mozilla to the actual program name? Fedora doesn't. Mageia doesn't. No other distro I can remember does it. All distros providing them, except for openSUSE, AFAIK are content with packages named firefox and thunderbird.
openSUSE/SUSE shipping those for ages and I've never seen a reason to change the name for the sake of changing a name. IIRC when Firefox still was named Firebird it was basically needed to call it MozillaFirebird (or mozilla-firebird but I've chosen MozillaFirebird). When it was renamed to Firefox I changed the package to MozillaFirefox in February 2004 and kept it because of what I wrote above. What is your exact issue with that? You can still do "zypper in firefox" or "zypper in thunderbird". Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-30 10:00 (GMT+0100) Wolfgang Rosenauer composed:
Felix Miata composed:
[12.1] zypper rm MozillaFirefox wants to install MozillaThunderbird
Anyone know why?
No, I do not see any reason for it. Do you have any more details from the output.
I don't think so, at least, there was nothing that I can remember. I did forget to mention at the OP time that the DE was KDE, and that seamonkey was installed, if that might have made any difference to some package that depends on a Mozilla browser being installed rather than Konq being sufficient.
Anyone know why these packages use caps, or prepend Mozilla to the actual program name? Fedora doesn't. Mageia doesn't. No other distro I can remember does it. All distros providing them, except for openSUSE, AFAIK are content with packages named firefox and thunderbird.
openSUSE/SUSE shipping those for ages and I've never seen a reason to change the name for the sake of changing a name.
IIRC when Firefox still was named Firebird it was basically needed to call it MozillaFirebird (or mozilla-firebird but I've chosen MozillaFirebird). When it was renamed to Firefox I changed the package to MozillaFirefox in February 2004 and kept it because of what I wrote above. What is your exact issue with that?
e.g., try to discover its installed version without running X: # rpm -qa | grep firefox # Grepping for irefox is workaround, but that's not intuitive to everyone. e.g., goto "f"s in a mirror's FTP listing to see what versions are on the host. Oops, nothing there, as FTP listings are case sensitive, and the random selection of package names starting with a cap are listed first. Same goes in /usr/share/applications/, whereas everywhere else in /usr/ *irefox is all lower case. YaST2 also sorts case sensitively. Then there's the original Mozilla Suite product's evolutionary result, Netscape->Mozilla->SeaMonkey, spelled without any caps everywhere in the package and file systems. So within openSUSE, some Mozilla packages use caps, while others don't. Some of this stems from seeing messages about zypper up not going to upgrade MozillaFirefox and wanting to figure out why, which typically has to do with whether or not only standard repos are enabled, or whether any Mozilla repo is also enabled, where the currently installed version came from, and wondering why when version a.b.c is the installed version right after updating while on Mozilla's download mirrors version a.b.d has been out for multiple weeks. I'd like to see the all the caps gone from all package names for 13.1.
You can still do "zypper in firefox" or "zypper in thunderbird".
It is not intuitive that one can install a package without using its actual name in an environment where trying to add or remove a kernel without typing its inexplicable intermixing of numerals, dots and dashes just right is always an exercise in frustration. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, Am 30.03.2013 10:57, schrieb Felix Miata:
e.g., try to discover its installed version without running X: # rpm -qa | grep firefox #
grep -i is your friend and is useful in other cases as well. It's not like Mozilla* were the only packages with caps.
Grepping for irefox is workaround, but that's not intuitive to everyone.
e.g., goto "f"s in a mirror's FTP listing to see what versions are on the host. Oops, nothing there, as FTP listings are case sensitive, and the random selection of package names starting with a cap are listed first. Same goes in /usr/share/applications/, whereas everywhere else in /usr/ *irefox is all lower case. YaST2 also sorts case sensitively.
Then there's the original Mozilla Suite product's evolutionary result, Netscape->Mozilla->SeaMonkey, spelled without any caps everywhere in the package and file systems. So within openSUSE, some Mozilla packages use caps, while others don't.
Because seamonkey came years later basically and I already changed my mind before that.
Some of this stems from seeing messages about zypper up not going to upgrade MozillaFirefox and wanting to figure out why, which typically has to do with whether or not only standard repos are enabled, or whether any Mozilla repo is also enabled, where the currently installed version came from, and wondering why when version a.b.c is the installed version right after updating while on Mozilla's download mirrors version a.b.d has been out for multiple weeks.
That's a zypp issue with vendor changes. I cannot do anything about it unfortunately.
I'd like to see the all the caps gone from all package names for 13.1.
Let me tell you about the most important issue about such a change and why the pros and cons up to now always were to keep the current naming scheme. For Mozilla stuff all packages are supposed to build for every supported openSUSE release. Otherwise I would fall into a maintenance hell with all the releases every six weeks for every openSUSE release. When I'd switch I'd need to maintain a complete parallel series of packages/specfiles in addition until 12.3 (and probably some Evergreen or SLES release runs out of maintenance) since OBS also does not really support me in having openSUSE baseversion dependent package names. If someone contributes some smart changes together with a workflow to keep my work the same and change the package name at some point I'm all in to hear about that. If changing a package name in released openSUSE versions is fine for everybody and risk free (do not think it really is) then it might be possible to switch as well. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Wolfgang Rosenauer <wolfgang@rosenauer.org> wrote:
If someone contributes some smart changes together with a workflow to keep my work the same and change the package name at some point I'm all in to hear about that. If changing a package name in released openSUSE versions is fine for everybody and risk free (do not think it really is) then it might be possible to switch as well.
Wolfgang
I've done renames of a heavily "buildrequires" package that went to factory with no problem. I don't know why it wouldn't be risk free in the update repo. I guess you know you just put something like this in the new specfile.: Provides: MozillaFirefox-%version Obsoletes: MozillaFirefox < 20.0.0 Where 20.0.0 is the version you first release under the new name. Greg -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am 30.03.2013 13:50, schrieb Greg Freemyer:
Wolfgang Rosenauer <wolfgang@rosenauer.org> wrote:
If someone contributes some smart changes together with a workflow to keep my work the same and change the package name at some point I'm all in to hear about that. If changing a package name in released openSUSE versions is fine for everybody and risk free (do not think it really is) then it might be possible to switch as well.
Wolfgang
I've done renames of a heavily "buildrequires" package that went to factory with no problem. I don't know why it wouldn't be risk free in the update repo.
Factory is not the issue at least.
I guess you know you just put something like this in the new specfile.:
Provides: MozillaFirefox-%version Obsoletes: MozillaFirefox < 20.0.0
Where 20.0.0 is the version you first release under the new name.
You never know which (probably broken) package/software relies on the fact that Firefox is called MozillaFirefox in some released distribution for example. I usually try to avoid such risks as good as possible. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 01:53:30PM +0100, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
Am 30.03.2013 13:50, schrieb Greg Freemyer:
Wolfgang Rosenauer <wolfgang@rosenauer.org> wrote:
If someone contributes some smart changes together with a workflow to keep my work the same and change the package name at some point I'm all in to hear about that. If changing a package name in released openSUSE versions is fine for everybody and risk free (do not think it really is) then it might be possible to switch as well.
Wolfgang
I've done renames of a heavily "buildrequires" package that went to factory with no problem. I don't know why it wouldn't be risk free in the update repo.
Factory is not the issue at least.
I guess you know you just put something like this in the new specfile.:
Provides: MozillaFirefox-%version Obsoletes: MozillaFirefox < 20.0.0
Where 20.0.0 is the version you first release under the new name.
You never know which (probably broken) package/software relies on the fact that Firefox is called MozillaFirefox in some released distribution for example. I usually try to avoid such risks as good as possible.
Yes, please do not rename the package in released distributions ... Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2013-03-30 at 05:57 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
e.g., try to discover its installed version without running X: # rpm -qa | grep firefox #
Grepping for irefox is workaround, but that's not intuitive to everyone.
Use the "-i" option on the grep. I always do. :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlFXa48ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9V69QCbBAliu94I1PEbkvkuVzOBEVFG xp4AnRpJVioNZdyuvWA1R/3PMZu1T4hD =BBWC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Basil Chupin -
Carlos E. R. -
Felix Miata -
Greg Freemyer -
Marcus Meissner -
Wolfgang Rosenauer