[opensuse] how to store passwords with Konqueror?
Hello, with Suse 11.3 it seems impossible that Konqueror stores passwords? I have heard about the "theory" that a window should pop up and asking about whether I want to store the password? Doesn't seem to happen. And then there is KWallet. Opening it one "wallet" seems to be there, saying "The name org.kde.kwalletd was not provided by ans .service files." which is unfortunately the typical bad message style: It doesn't tell me what is expected (is this an error or not), and if it is expected, why it is expected, and due to which facts it thinks that the expectations are not met. Finally, if there is a problem, how to solve it? The KWallet documentation doesn't speak about problems (unfortunately, this seems to be the "standard" for KDE documentation; apparently there are never any problems). Can anybody help? Oliver P.S. In the past, with older Suse versions, KWallet never worked, and I always had to use Firefox. I got the impression (from the Internet) that now KWallet seems to work in some cases? When going to KDE wallet configuration, there is "Enable KDE wallet subsystem"?? What could this mean? And the same message "The name org.kde.kwalletd was not provided by ans .service files." appears for the automatic wallet selection? Apparently the "subsystem" (???) has to be enabled? If this is the case, then how can one know about this? Even the existence of Kwallet is not mentioned for example somewhere in Konqueror? And apparently enabling this "subsystem" means just enabling "Kwallet"?? If this is the case, why then speaking of a "subsystem"? -- Dr. Oliver Kullmann Computer Science Department Swansea University Faraday Building, Singleton Park Swansea SA2 8PP, UK http://cs.swan.ac.uk/~csoliver/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 08 October 2010 20:45:44 Oliver Kullmann wrote:
with Suse 11.3 it seems impossible that Konqueror stores passwords? I have heard about the "theory" that a window should pop up and asking about whether I want to store the password? Doesn't seem to happen.
And then there is KWallet. Opening it one "wallet" seems to be there, saying
"The name org.kde.kwalletd was not provided by ans .service files."
Hi Oliver See if it works if you logout of KDE, old ~/.kde4/share/config/kwallet*rc and log back in again. HTH Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Oct 08, 2010 at 11:43:06PM +0200, Will Stephenson wrote:
On Friday 08 October 2010 20:45:44 Oliver Kullmann wrote:
with Suse 11.3 it seems impossible that Konqueror stores passwords? I have heard about the "theory" that a window should pop up and asking about whether I want to store the password? Doesn't seem to happen.
And then there is KWallet. Opening it one "wallet" seems to be there, saying
"The name org.kde.kwalletd was not provided by ans .service files."
Hi Oliver
See if it works if you logout of KDE,
old ~/.kde4/share/config/kwallet*rc
and log back in again.
HTH
Will
Hi Will, thanks, meanwhile I got it working. The main problem is the rather weak documentation: no attempt anywhere to explain what is the underlying *concept*, only some entries regarding supposed menu-entries, which, as usual, do not really match the reality (this problem does not exist for *conceptual documentation* --- the underlying concepts are much more stable!). I assume that "The name org.kde.kwalletd was not provided by any .service files." is the default name of such a "wallet", which does add to the confusion. If I may add a general remark: I think the most important problem with any kind of software, and especially with such complex and fuzzy systems like "desktops", is that apparently nobody dares to create, discuss and document the general *abstract* concepts, the underlying ideas, the "mental images". Instead one only finds attempts at "enter this string", without even explaining what would be the result (gain). And without such underlying structures the whole KDE desktop (like any other software out there) is just a bag of hacks, assembled at random, and "discovered" by the user at random. I teach computer science, and so I know that today those which still have some sort of technical interest (not just a business interest) tend to be half-autistic, and so the links to language and meaning are broken. There used to be some attempts at some form of overviews on the Suse-distribution, as provided by Suse (back in the good olden days). This needed to be revived, but not the usual collection of hacks ("enter this"), but a kind of dictionary (all these strange KDE-notions!) with abstract explanations (of course not technical, but in some sense philosophical), which enable the reader to create a conceptual landscape, to create a mental model of the desktop, and thus enabling him to guess/conjecture how things should be: To understand anything, we constantly need to guess in advance where the flow of thought is going, and broken communication always means that the "other" (in this case the desktop) becomes a black box, where all I can do is to store input/output relations, without some underlying structures. The desktop is a permanent source of frustration. And how many hours per day are we spending on it. And it didn't need to be like that ... Sorry for the general remarks, but actually this is a kind of attempt to improve the situation. ;-) Thanks again for your answer. Oliver -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2010-10-10 at 18:09 +0100, Oliver Kullmann wrote: ...
If I may add a general remark: I think the most important problem with any kind of software, and especially with such complex and fuzzy systems like "desktops", is that apparently nobody dares to create, discuss and document the general *abstract* concepts, the underlying ideas, the "mental images". Instead one only finds attempts at "enter this string", without even explaining what would be the result (gain). And without such underlying structures the whole KDE desktop (like any other software out there) is just a bag of hacks, assembled at random, and "discovered" by the user at random.
You are absolutely right, IMO. Linux, in general, moves "forward" at a great speed. Somebody develops, changing things, inventing things... but many are left behind, wondering how things works now, how everything is supposed to integrate. Not only the desktop, but all. It is very possible that one knew those things a year ago and not now.
I teach computer science, and so I know that today those which still have some sort of technical interest (not just a business interest) tend to be half-autistic, and so the links to language and meaning are broken.
And those that could write often do not know, because first those that know have to communicate what they did. Thus we are left to discover that terra ignota for ourselves.
Sorry for the general remarks, but actually this is a kind of attempt to improve the situation. ;-)
+1 I took the liberty to change the title to attract people to this branch of the conversation :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkyyzzUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VUQQCfVE8goEf0meJYM92HU5hwfQLM BzIAnRXijpdY0AdsE7Y7/3zdq2nvcaWe =K64G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 10 October 2010 19:09:09 Oliver Kullmann wrote:
thanks, meanwhile I got it working. The main problem is the rather weak documentation: no attempt anywhere to explain what is the underlying *concept*, only some entries regarding supposed menu-entries, which, as usual, do not really match the reality (this problem does not exist for *conceptual documentation* --- the underlying concepts are much more stable!).
Yes, a lot of documentation is outdated. Moreover, translation puts a second hurdle in the way of being up to date, because a stale translated manual still takes precedence over a current English manual. Upstream at KDE we are tackling this problem by lowering the barrier to creating documentation, in that we allow both Docbook and wiki authoring (and plain text which will be formatted for the author by the docu team). Everyone is invited to contribute as explained here: http://userbase.kde.org/Tasks_and_Tools and http://userbase.kde.org/WriteManuals.
I assume that "The name org.kde.kwalletd was not provided by any .service files." is the default name of such a "wallet", which does add to the confusion.
No, it's sadly the result of an unchecked RPC error on the call to lookup the wallet name, so the error string is used in the UI. I guess the original author assumed that the call could not fail. The problem persists because the bad string is then saved in the wallet configuration as the default wallet name. See https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=234440 for details. I wonder how yours got in this situation. Did you add in additional repositories that could have caused kwalletd to fail when you first used it, then resolved the situation?
If I may add a general remark: I think the most important problem with any kind of software, and especially with such complex and fuzzy systems like "desktops", is that apparently nobody dares to create, discuss and document the general *abstract* concepts, the underlying ideas, the "mental images". Instead one only finds attempts at "enter this string", without even explaining what would be the result (gain). And without such underlying structures the whole KDE desktop (like any other software out there) is just a bag of hacks, assembled at random, and "discovered" by the user at random.
The production of Free Software is a random process. Much stomach acid production expressed on this list and others is caused by the misconception that it is an orderly, planned process. But most of the abstract concepts and implementation details are actually documented (if also somewhat randomly). There is a disconnect between the user documentation and the technical documentation, because maintaining the link across the abstraction between the apparent user interface and the implementation would cost more work, and right now there aren't even the resources to make sure that the descriptions of menu trees are current. The grass is not greener elsewhere, and things do improve over time (see above about widening participation).
I teach computer science, and so I know that today those which still have some sort of technical interest (not just a business interest) tend to be half-autistic, and so the links to language and meaning are broken.
Having spent a few years teaching computer science myself, I can say that this tendency exists (and not just in CS senior common rooms). Fortunately, large projects like KDE and openSUSE consist of a range of individuals, including those who are only interested in bashing out code, and those who perceive the need for documentation to enable the apps to be used. We can always use more in both categories.
There used to be some attempts at some form of overviews on the Suse-distribution, as provided by Suse (back in the good olden days). This needed to be revived, but not the usual collection of hacks ("enter this"), but a kind of dictionary (all these strange KDE-notions!) with abstract explanations (of course not technical, but in some sense philosophical), which enable the reader to create a conceptual landscape, to create a mental model of the desktop, and thus enabling him to guess/conjecture how things should be: To understand anything, we constantly need to guess in advance where the flow of thought is going, and broken communication always means that the "other" (in this case the desktop) becomes a black box, where all I can do is to store input/output relations, without some underlying structures.
Our in-house SUSE documentation team produce user, admin and quick start to KDE (and GNOME) guides, which are updated every release and aim to fill in the gaps between the upstream docu and what we actually ship.
The desktop is a permanent source of frustration. And how many hours per day are we spending on it. And it didn't need to be like that ...
Cue "helpful" but insincere comment from other-desktop-user about how everything is perfect on his side of the fence. But actually, everything, Free Software and the other sort, is broken to some degree and is frustrating. The desktop just gets the most flak because it's the visible tip of the iceberg. The opportunity exists to improve matters and the desktop is a great place to start, because your improvements will be seen by the same logic, which is rewarding.
Sorry for the general remarks, but actually this is a kind of attempt to improve the situation. ;-)
I hope that your willingness to invest time describing the problems will be matched by an investment of time (however little) in solving them. If I can do more to enable that, please let me know. Will -- Will Stephenson, KDE Developer, openSUSE Boosters Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (3)
-
Carlos E. R.
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Oliver Kullmann
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Will Stephenson