On Wednesday 20 November 2013, cagsm wrote:

does hotkeys not work to jump around your bash (?) command line and in console in general? learn hotkeys and it will ease your life. good luck. e.g.

But shift key does not work for you? http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/s/shiftkey.htm

<http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/ubuntu/keyboard-shortcuts-for-bash-co mmand-shell-for-ubuntu-debian-suse-redhat-linux-etc/>

On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Istvan Gabor wrote:

...

Hello:

It seems systemd is unstoppable. It gets into every linux distro sooner or later.

Apart from that we have to learn it, find its syntax awkward, very awkward.

What I mean:

The syntax, if I know correctly is:

systemctl action(enable/disbale/start/stop etc.) service-name.service

I am using bash shell as, I guess, many of you too.

In bash you can press upward cursor to get to the previous command you entered. You can edit that command by going back with the cursor. By pressing enter you apply the new (edited) command.

Now, with the current systemd syntax this is very tedious.

If I want to apply different operations I have to go back to the middle of the line to edit action. Same with service-name service. If I want to edit service name I have to go back a lot to change it.

The logical sysntax, at least in my opinion, would be:

systemctl service.service-name action

Then it would be simpler to edit previous command lines.

Practically this worked like this with initv boot scripts:

/etc/init.d/service-name start/stop etc.

Wasn't it easier an more logical and easier to use?

What do you think?

Istvan

ps: Please do not ask what is my point. The answer: this syntax is a good current example of "ain't fix what's not broken". I am talking only about the command syntax, not systemd.

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On 11/20/2013 12:59 PM, cagsm pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

mr offtopic i really do enjoy your hate. but could you stay on-topic please? or do you simply enjoy trolling? (shift keys been donated to the more needy. sorry i dont got any leftovers for you. if i can spare one i will be keeping you in good memory next time. just post your delivery address and you might eventually get one yourself. good bye troll.)

On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...

On Wednesday 20 November 2013, cagsm wrote:

...

does hotkeys not work to jump around your bash (?) command line and in console in general? learn hotkeys and it will ease your life. good But shift key does not work for you? http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/s/shiftkey.htm

YOU DON'T USE YOUR SHIFT KEY, YOU TOP POST ALL THE TIME WHICH IS _NOT_ APPRECIATED ON THIS LIST. AND YES I AM YELLING AT YOU IN HOPES THAT YOU WILL HEAR ME. Please post your replies inline and trim out what your reply does not apply to. And NO using gmail is not an excuse for improper posting to this list, it is only an excuse for you be lazy. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Tony Alfrey [11-20-13 15:18]:

cagsm wrote:

...

mr offtopic i really do enjoy your hate. but could you stay on-topic please? or do you simply enjoy trolling? (shift keys been donated to the more needy. sorry i dont got any leftovers for you. if i can spare one i will be keeping you in good memory next time. just post your delivery address and you might eventually get one yourself. good bye troll.)

[...]

Has anyone seen Aaron Kulkis recently? Is it possible that he has returned under a new disguise?

Not "possible" but "probable" :0: * From:.*cumandgets0mem00f\@gmail\.com /dev/null -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

more: e.g. http://ss64.com/bash/syntax-keyboard.html ... Bash Keyboard Shortcuts Moving the cursor: Ctrl + a Go to the beginning of the line (Home) Ctrl + e Go to the End of the line (End) Ctrl + p Previous command (Up arrow) Ctrl + n Next command (Down arrow) Alt + b Back (left) one word Alt + f Forward (right) one word Ctrl + f Forward one character Ctrl + b Backward one character Ctrl + xx Toggle between the start of line and current cursor position ..... On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Ruediger Meier wrote:

On Wednesday 20 November 2013, Istvan Gabor wrote:

...

Hello:

It seems systemd is unstoppable. It gets into every linux distro sooner or later.

Apart from that we have to learn it, find its syntax awkward, very awkward.

What I mean:

The syntax, if I know correctly is:

systemctl action(enable/disbale/start/stop etc.) service-name.service

I am using bash shell as, I guess, many of you too.

In bash you can press upward cursor to get to the previous command you entered.

Just type "s" and then ALT+PageUp

This should give you the last s(ystemd) command and your cursor is still at the beginning of the line.

...

You can edit that command by going back with the cursor. By pressing enter you apply the new (edited) command.

ALT+leftArrow jumps a whole word back.

...

Now, with the current systemd syntax this is very tedious.

If I want to apply different operations I have to go back to the middle of the line to edit action. Same with service-name service. If I want to edit service name I have to go back a lot to change it.

The logical sysntax, at least in my opinion, would be:

systemctl service.service-name action

Then it would be simpler to edit previous command lines.

Practically this worked like this with initv boot scripts:

/etc/init.d/service-name start/stop etc.

Wasn't it easier an more logical and easier to use?

What do you think?

Istvan

ps: Please do not ask what is my point. The answer: this syntax is a good current example of "ain't fix what's not broken". I am talking only about the command syntax, not systemd. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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Le 20/11/2013 18:48, Ruediger Meier a écrit :

Just type "s" and then ALT+PageUp

oh, good, I didn'-( know this one and it allows browsing history. usefull. this don't mean the original syntax coudn't be better. "service" seems to be simply a shortcut to system V inits and/or systemd. It's just a shell script. easy to look at probably a good solution to the problem of systemd syntax thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

What I have been wondering is, sometimes systemctl can autocomplete service names, and sometimes doesnt, or to be more precisely, if I for example use rcservicename (if they still exist) to start up for example named or squid or ntp I think they were as examples, then from that moment on systemctl can also use those servicenames with autocompletion. I have not yet looked into these details where it gets its known service names from. I especially also came across this when wanting to systemctl enable servicename that was just not yet there (autocomplete-wise) and I was not daring to just try to use a name that maybe fit, so I went for rcsquid or rcntp first and was later able to use systemctl for it too. Thanks. On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

El 20/11/13 14:37, Istvan Gabor escribió:

...

The syntax, if I know correctly is:

systemctl action(enable/disbale/start/stop etc.) service-name.service

The .service part can be ommited:

so

systemctl action(enable/disbale/start/stop etc.) service-name

can be used most cases, except when you want to restart a timer or a mount point.

It goes without saying that the current order:

systemctl [OPTIONS...] COMMAND [NAME...

will not be changed as that will likely break a lot scripts and in our case is gonna break YAST. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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Le 20/11/2013 19:29, Cristian Rodríguez a écrit :

will not be changed as that will likely break a lot scripts and in our case is gonna break YAST.

I hope so is the "service" script a longterm solution? thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 20/11/2013 19:37, Cristian Rodríguez a écrit :

While I do not see the "service" script ever going away,

good, thanks the solution in

this case is to learn how to use systemctl instead and use the provided shell completion scripts.

the less I have to learn, the better I live jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 21/11/2013 09:09, Roger Oberholtzer a écrit :

On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 07:39:38 PM jdd wrote:

...

the less I have to learn, the better I live

That statement seems wrong to me...

Of course there is a difference between that which we want to learn and that which we have to learn.

exactly. I have to learn a lot of things on linux administration (as things change all the time) and as I don't do this for money... jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thursday, November 21, 2013 09:29:38 AM Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

On Thursday, November 21, 2013 09:09:14 AM Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

The systemctl shell completion is done by this script:

/etc/bash_completion.d/systemd-bash-completion.sh

It does not seem to contain a list of services. So it must be getting them dynamically. But I have not figured where...

I think the autocompletion gets the possible services from this command: systemctl --full --no-legend list-units --all If I grep .services from that command, it seems to match the list I get with autocompletion. So, why aren't all services here? Maybe it is only the services that are now specified in systemctl. If so, this would indicate that the missing command are those still manages the sysV/init way. Do I have this right? -- Yours sincerely, Roger Oberholtzer Ramböll RST / Systems Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 roger.oberholtzer@ramboll.se ________________________________________ Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden www.rambollrst.se -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Roger Oberholtzer said the following on 11/21/2013 03:09 AM:

On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 07:39:38 PM jdd wrote:

...

the less I have to learn, the better I live

That statement seems wrong to me...

Indeed. There's an adage about the keenness to learn and staying young. So naturally it won't apply to 'old fogies'. Some of the most interesting contributors to this list, the most willing to try things out out live on the edge - aka the factory - are 60+. I expect them to make the century. -- How long did the whining go on when KDE2 went on KDE3? The only universal constant is change. If a species can not adapt it goes extinct. That's the law of the universe, adapt or die. -- Billie Walsh, May 18 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/20/2013 1:29 PM, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

El 20/11/13 14:37, Istvan Gabor escribió:

...

The syntax, if I know correctly is:

systemctl action(enable/disbale/start/stop etc.) service-name.service

The .service part can be ommited:

so

systemctl action(enable/disbale/start/stop etc.) service-name

can be used most cases, except when you want to restart a timer or a mount point.

It goes without saying that the current order:

systemctl [OPTIONS...] COMMAND [NAME...

will not be changed as that will likely break a lot scripts and in our case is gonna break YAST.

I am printing and framing this email. A systemd railroader claims to care about breaking stuff... Priceless. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org