Older motherboard dilemma
It took me only seconds after I installed SUSE Linux to see that my desktop machine is too slow to support it properly with KDE. This is a Supermicro P6SBA motherboard with a 350MHz CPU. It was, of course, blazingly fast when I bought it, but that was then, while this is now. A review of suitable MB/CPU combinations operating at speeds that I hear people talk about shows me that they would make an unsupportble dent in my finances. But I might be able to swing a faster CPU for the existing MB. The fastest CPU available for this motherboard runs at 800MHz. I don't think I have a problem with the speed at which applications run. What is on my mind is the responsiveness of the desktop: it takes forever for windows to even show up on the screen. I would like to hear comments from a few others (if there are any) who are using SUSE v9.x on systems with speeds in the neighborhood that is available to me with the faster CPU on this MB. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel "When your enemy falls, do not rejoice." -- Proverbs 24:17 "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." --Jeff Raskin
Stan Goodman wrote:
It took me only seconds after I installed SUSE Linux to see that my desktop machine is too slow to support it properly with KDE. This is a Supermicro P6SBA motherboard with a 350MHz CPU. It was, of course, blazingly fast when I bought it, but that was then, while this is now.
It's amazing how a CPU can slow down with age. ;-)
** Reply to message from James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> on Sun, 24 Jul 2005 17:24:31 -0400
Stan Goodman wrote:
It took me only seconds after I installed SUSE Linux to see that my desktop machine is too slow to support it properly with KDE. This is a Supermicro P6SBA motherboard with a 350MHz CPU. It was, of course, blazingly fast when I bought it, but that was then, while this is now.
It's amazing how a CPU can slow down with age. ;-)
There is a similar effect with aluminum. In my childhood, the DC3s that flew in and out of the nearby airport were very large. In the intervening years, aluminum shrinkage has made them quite small. There are still quite a lot of goony-birds around, and they are nothing like as large as they were when I was a kid. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel "When your enemy falls, do not rejoice." -- Proverbs 24:17 Old Fart n. slang (old fart'; in New England, old faaht') Tribal Elder. Used in deprecation especially by males younger than 20 years.
Stan Goodman wrote:
** Reply to message from James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> on Sun, 24 Jul 2005 17:24:31 -0400
Stan Goodman wrote:
It took me only seconds after I installed SUSE Linux to see that my desktop machine is too slow to support it properly with KDE. This is a Supermicro P6SBA motherboard with a 350MHz CPU. It was, of course, blazingly fast when I bought it, but that was then, while this is now. It's amazing how a CPU can slow down with age. ;-)
There is a similar effect with aluminum. In my childhood, the DC3s that flew in and out of the nearby airport were very large. In the intervening years, aluminum shrinkage has made them quite small. There are still quite a lot of goony-birds around, and they are nothing like as large as they were when I was a kid.
I've noticed the same thing with pant sizes. I used to wear a 34" waist. Now that size is too small for me. ;-)
** Reply to message from James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> on Sun, 24 Jul 2005 18:06:21 -0400
Stan Goodman wrote:
** Reply to message from James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> on Sun, 24 Jul 2005 17:24:31 -0400
Stan Goodman wrote:
It took me only seconds after I installed SUSE Linux to see that my desktop machine is too slow to support it properly with KDE. This is a Supermicro P6SBA motherboard with a 350MHz CPU. It was, of course, blazingly fast when I bought it, but that was then, while this is now. It's amazing how a CPU can slow down with age. ;-)
There is a similar effect with aluminum. In my childhood, the DC3s that flew in and out of the nearby airport were very large. In the intervening years, aluminum shrinkage has made them quite small. There are still quite a lot of goony-birds around, and they are nothing like as large as they were when I was a kid.
I've noticed the same thing with pant sizes. I used to wear a 34" waist. Now that size is too small for me. ;-)
Big deal. Everybody knows that fabrics shrink. The surprise is that it happens with aluminum too. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel "When your enemy falls, do not rejoice." -- Proverbs 24:17 Eight out of five times, you can prove any assertion with statistics.
On Sunday 24 July 2005 05:19 pm, Stan Goodman wrote:
It took me only seconds after I installed SUSE Linux to see that my desktop machine is too slow to support it properly with KDE. This is a Supermicro P6SBA motherboard with a 350MHz CPU. It was, of course, blazingly fast when I bought it, but that was then, while this is now.
A review of suitable MB/CPU combinations operating at speeds that I hear people talk about shows me that they would make an unsupportble dent in my finances. But I might be able to swing a faster CPU for the existing MB. The fastest CPU available for this motherboard runs at 800MHz.
I don't think I have a problem with the speed at which applications run. What is on my mind is the responsiveness of the desktop: it takes forever for windows to even show up on the screen.
I would like to hear comments from a few others (if there are any) who are using SUSE v9.x on systems with speeds in the neighborhood that is available to me with the faster CPU on this MB.
-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel ==========
Maybe a better graphics card instead? I've played with some very adequate systems (AMD) of that speed, but with a good graphics card installed. Of course, if you can come by another faster cpu, it never hurts, does it? ;o) regards, Lee -- --- KMail v1.8 --- SuSE Linux Pro v9.2 --- Registered Linux User #225206
On Sunday 24 July 2005 23.40, BandiPat wrote:
On Sunday 24 July 2005 05:19 pm, Stan Goodman wrote:
It took me only seconds after I installed SUSE Linux to see that my desktop machine is too slow to support it properly with KDE. This is a Supermicro P6SBA motherboard with a 350MHz CPU. It was, of course, blazingly fast when I bought it, but that was then, while this is now.
A review of suitable MB/CPU combinations operating at speeds that I hear people talk about shows me that they would make an unsupportble dent in my finances. But I might be able to swing a faster CPU for the existing MB. The fastest CPU available for this motherboard runs at 800MHz.
I don't think I have a problem with the speed at which applications run. What is on my mind is the responsiveness of the desktop: it takes forever for windows to even show up on the screen.
I would like to hear comments from a few others (if there are any) who are using SUSE v9.x on systems with speeds in the neighborhood that is available to me with the faster CPU on this MB.
-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel
==========
Maybe a better graphics card instead? I've played with some very adequate systems (AMD) of that speed, but with a good graphics card installed. Of course, if you can come by another faster cpu, it never hurts, does it? ;o)
regards, Lee
-- --- KMail v1.8 --- SuSE Linux Pro v9.2 --- Registered Linux User #225206
-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
I run "exclusively" older stuff. (The fastest i have regarding to CPU is a 733 MHz Celleron.) The fastest (until it died) coming to responsiveness was a dual 433 MHz Celleron i had. The board finally gave out after some 5 years of constant use. (just a few restarts and a handful two-three day "vacations" in all that time) You didn't state WHAT you wanted to do with the machine, but i suspect the usual productive stuff (ie. no heavy gaming) My finding is memory first then MHz... The dual Celly ran with: 448 MB ram, One Matrox G400 DH (Dual Head) AGP card One Matrox Millennium II PCI graphics card (Yes! Its a triple head system) One 3c905 NIC One SB Live! audio card 17 GB ATA/33 It was very responsive. The newer 733 MHz singel CPU board has somewhat lesser memory, (384 MB) and the same board setup aside from the 17 GB disk now being on a ATA/66 bus instead. (Presumeably faster response) Looking at MHz its a lot faster than a 433, but still, under load, the Dual was a lot more responsive. Both are/were running SuSE 9.2. So my advice is more memory (up to 512 and beyond if possible) And as i think you have a singel CPU system, Go for more MHz if you have the money. A faster graphicscard; sure, but i don't think a mega-fast-high-end-pixel-pumping-3D-enhanced card will help all that much, as most desktop is 2D. (Correct me if i'm wrong) My "old" 2x AGP and PCI work just fine. No problems with drivers or anything. On the other hand; A newer motherboard, and reasonable fast CPU is not a big "dent" anymore. You don't need the cutting edge board with all the trimmings to run a good machine. Pick a Celleron (or AMD if it tickles your fancy) up around 2 GHz, and smack some 512 Megs or more on it. Use the rest of your old box (disks, CD etc) And you are good to go. Hope this gave you something to work with.. /Rikard
At 01:47 AM 7/25/2005 +0200, Rikard Johnels wrote:
Content-Disposition: inline
On Sunday 24 July 2005 23.40, BandiPat wrote:
On Sunday 24 July 2005 05:19 pm, Stan Goodman wrote:
It took me only seconds after I installed SUSE Linux to see that my desktop machine is too slow to support it properly with KDE. This is a Supermicro P6SBA motherboard with a 350MHz CPU. It was, of course, blazingly fast when I bought it, but that was then, while this is now.
/snip all else/
You can buy a whole computer with insufficient memory, but just about everything else, for less than US$200. >2GHz processor. Fry's, maybe Wal-Mart, take a look. And memory is pretty cheap now also. Fry's will sell the machine with a version of Linux installed. You will have to use your old monitor, that doesn't come with, but even a k/b and mouse does. I confess that I haven't been able, as yet, to get Linspire to let me log on to the Internet. I think it is a problem of not being set up for user names. I have to get out the Linux books and see if I can remember how to do that. --doug -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 7/22/2005
** Reply to message from Doug McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> on Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:18:34 -0400
At 01:47 AM 7/25/2005 +0200, Rikard Johnels wrote:
Content-Disposition: inline
On Sunday 24 July 2005 23.40, BandiPat wrote:
On Sunday 24 July 2005 05:19 pm, Stan Goodman wrote:
It took me only seconds after I installed SUSE Linux to see that my desktop machine is too slow to support it properly with KDE. This is a Supermicro P6SBA motherboard with a 350MHz CPU. It was, of course, blazingly fast when I bought it, but that was then, while this is now.
/snip all else/
You can buy a whole computer with insufficient memory, but just about everything else, for less than US$200. >2GHz processor. Fry's, maybe Wal-Mart, take a look. And memory is pretty cheap now also. Fry's will sell the machine with a version of Linux installed. You will have to use your old monitor, that doesn't come with, but even a k/b and mouse does.
I envy you your access to such bargains. Wal-Mart does not operate here, nor does anything like it. I never heard of Fry's. Can anyone tell me of experience with SUSE 9.x on a 800MHz system? -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel "When your enemy falls, do not rejoice." -- Proverbs 24:17
From the minds of imbecilic, though authoritative, columnists: "I'm still all for it, but it doesn't work." -- Anthony Lewis (NY Times), on socialism
** Reply to message from Rikard Johnels <rikard.j@rikjoh.com> on Mon, 25 Jul 2005 01:47:48 +0200
Maybe a better graphics card instead? I've played with some very adequate systems (AMD) of that speed, but with a good graphics card installed. Of course, if you can come by another faster cpu, it never hurts, does it? ;o)
The graphics card, which is on the MB, is ATI 3D Rage. I do not think its painting of the screen is the limiting factor, as the system is quite nimble with OS/2. Evidently, Linux has much more going on besides what the graphics card does, so that the system is glacially slow. I should have also specified how much RAM is in the system -- it has 512MB. The size of the SWAP partition is 1GB. I probably didn't ask my question clearly enough. What I really want to know is if there are others running SUSE with 800MHz CPUs; I would like to hear if SUSE 9.x seems adequately fast with such equipment, or if it still seems too slow (a subjective judgement, I know). The point is that I don't want to put out that much money for a 800MHz CPU if it will leave me still with an inadequate system. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel "When your enemy falls, do not rejoice." -- Proverbs 24:17 "Never eat more than you can lift." -- Miss Piggy
Stan Goodman wrote:
It took me only seconds after I installed SUSE Linux to see that my desktop machine is too slow to support it properly with KDE. This is a Supermicro P6SBA
Make sure you're not wasting CPU cycles on unneeded services. How much RAM you have?
motherboard with a 350MHz CPU. It was, of course, blazingly fast when I bought it, but that was then, while this is now.
That mobo has the amazing old 440BX chipset. I have several of those here. :-)
A review of suitable MB/CPU combinations operating at speeds that I hear people talk about shows me that they would make an unsupportble dent in my finances. But I might be able to swing a faster CPU for the existing MB. The fastest CPU available for this motherboard runs at 800MHz.
Actually a lot of 440BX boards will run up to something like 1100, but typically the BIOS doesn't "support it" and so will lie to you on POST, then proceed to work just fine. Finding faster than 800MHz at a sane price is close to hopeless anyway. Note when budgeting an upgrade that the PIII uses a different cooler arrangement than a PII.
I don't think I have a problem with the speed at which applications run. What is on my mind is the responsiveness of the desktop: it takes forever for windows to even show up on the screen.
If you think you have it slow, try a K6/2-400 running only a 430TX chipset 66MHz FSB and only 64M of RAM cached. :-( A PII-350 w/ 100MHz FSB is way faster.
I would like to hear comments from a few others (if there are any) who are using SUSE v9.x on systems with speeds in the neighborhood that is available to me with the faster CPU on this MB.
I just paid about $30 for a 700 P3 to replace a 350 P2 in a Mandrake Cooker SCSI 440BX box & ATI Rage Pro. It hasn't arrived yet, but I expect no significant difference from my SuSE 9.0 system also running 700 P3 SCSI 440BX, but with Matrox G400. 9.0 uses a 2.4 kernel, which seems to be noticably faster than a 2.6 on slower systems. The 440BX supports only ATA33, so if you aren't running SCSI, consider moving your HD to a cheap PCI ATA 100 or 133 card for a significant speed boost. If you have at least 256M RAM now, I think you'll be pleased with little more than $20-$40 spent for a used 600-800 MHz PIII CPU upgrade. If you don't have that much RAM, try to get more before worrying about anything else. RAM compatible with 440BX isn't so easy to find as it used to be. Most PC100 RAM now is very expensive, and otherwise compatible PC133 now usually comes only with too high chip density for 440BX. I got lucky and found a used IBM brand 256M PC133 stick for about $35 a couple weeks ago. Now that SuSE 9.0 system is at 384M. :-) If you need to buy RAM, and CPU, and ATA card, you're enroaching on the price of a cheap motherboard, CPU and RAM that would be a much better value for the money spent. Dilemma indeed. :-p -- "If you love your children, you will be prompt to discipline them." Proverbs 13:24 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/
** Reply to message from Felix Miata <mrmazda@ij.net> on Sun, 24 Jul 2005 23:32:31 -0400 Hi, Felix. We meet again!!
Stan Goodman wrote:
It took me only seconds after I installed SUSE Linux to see that my desktop machine is too slow to support it properly with KDE. This is a Supermicro P6SBA
Make sure you're not wasting CPU cycles on unneeded services. How much RAM you have?
512MB.
motherboard with a 350MHz CPU. It was, of course, blazingly fast when I bought it, but that was then, while this is now.
That mobo has the amazing old 440BX chipset. I have several of those here. :-)
A review of suitable MB/CPU combinations operating at speeds that I hear people talk about shows me that they would make an unsupportble dent in my finances. But I might be able to swing a faster CPU for the existing MB. The fastest CPU available for this motherboard runs at 800MHz.
Actually a lot of 440BX boards will run up to something like 1100, but typically the BIOS doesn't "support it" and so will lie to you on POST, then proceed to work just fine. Finding faster than 800MHz at a sane price is close to hopeless anyway. Note when budgeting an upgrade that the PIII uses a different cooler arrangement than a PII.
I don't think I have a problem with the speed at which applications run. What is on my mind is the responsiveness of the desktop: it takes forever for windows to even show up on the screen.
If you think you have it slow, try a K6/2-400 running only a 430TX chipset 66MHz FSB and only 64M of RAM cached. :-( A PII-350 w/ 100MHz FSB is way faster.
I would like to hear comments from a few others (if there are any) who are using SUSE v9.x on systems with speeds in the neighborhood that is available to me with the faster CPU on this MB.
I just paid about $30 for a 700 P3 to replace a 350 P2 in a Mandrake Cooker SCSI 440BX box & ATI Rage Pro. It hasn't arrived yet, but I expect no significant difference from my SuSE 9.0 system also running 700 P3 SCSI 440BX, but with Matrox G400. 9.0 uses a 2.4 kernel, which seems to be noticably faster than a 2.6 on slower systems.
The 440BX supports only ATA33, so if you aren't running SCSI, consider moving your HD to a cheap PCI ATA 100 or 133 card for a significant speed boost.
If you have at least 256M RAM now, I think you'll be pleased with little more than $20-$40 spent for a used 600-800 MHz PIII CPU upgrade. If you
THAT is what I wanted to hear. I don't think I can get away with that low a price, however. I discovered very rapidly that there are no suitable 800MHz CPUs in this country, so I shopped Pricegrabber to see what I could import. The prices available there start at just over $100. Where do you find them for $20 - 40?
don't have that much RAM, try to get more before worrying about anything else. RAM compatible with 440BX isn't so easy to find as it used to be. Most PC100 RAM now is very expensive, and otherwise compatible PC133 now usually comes only with too high chip density for 440BX. I got lucky and found a used IBM brand 256M PC133 stick for about $35 a couple weeks ago. Now that SuSE 9.0 system is at 384M. :-)
If you need to buy RAM, and CPU, and ATA card, you're enroaching on the price of a cheap motherboard, CPU and RAM that would be a much better value for the money spent. Dilemma indeed. :-p
The HD on which SUSE is installed is IDE. Thanks again... -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel "When your enemy falls, do not rejoice." -- Proverbs 24:17 The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he, who by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the first place. -- Douglas Adams (author of "A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe")
Stan Goodman wrote:
** Reply to message from Felix Miata:
If you have at least 256M RAM now, I think you'll be pleased with little more than $20-$40 spent for a used 600-800 MHz PIII CPU upgrade. If you
THAT is what I wanted to hear.
I don't think I can get away with that low a price, however. I discovered very rapidly that there are no suitable 800MHz CPUs in this country, so I shopped Pricegrabber to see what I could import. The prices available there start at just over $100. Where do you find them for $20 - 40?
Waiting on delivery: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6785135426 Some I looked at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6785964246 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6785210885 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6784920658 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6785801809 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6785806324 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6784982927 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6784116148 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6783547882 http://www.pricewatch.com/prc.aspx?i=3&a=2283 If eBay is not accessible to you or there is no equivalent over there, try becoming your own used PC parts person, scouring locally for sources of used whole puters, like garage sales, used goods stores, recyclers and the like. Find what you need that way, and sell off the leftovers for an ultimate net profit from upgrading. 800 seems to be a magic number. 700 seems quite a bit cheaper, and still double your 350. -- "If you love your children, you will be prompt to discipline them." Proverbs 13:24 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/partitioningindex.html
On 24-Jul-05 Stan Goodman wrote:
It took me only seconds after I installed SUSE Linux to see that my desktop machine is too slow to support it properly with KDE. This is a Supermicro P6SBA motherboard with a 350MHz CPU. It was, of course, blazingly fast when I bought it, but that was then, while this is now.
A review of suitable MB/CPU combinations operating at speeds that I hear people talk about shows me that they would make an unsupportble dent in my finances. But I might be able to swing a faster CPU for the existing MB. The fastest CPU available for this motherboard runs at 800MHz.
I don't think I have a problem with the speed at which applications run. What is on my mind is the responsiveness of the desktop: it takes forever for windows to even show up on the screen.
I would like to hear comments from a few others (if there are any) who are using SUSE v9.x on systems with speeds in the neighborhood that is available to me with the faster CPU on this MB.
I would also suggest looking at your RAM. The more the merrier. How much do you have now? My most powerful machine has a 733MHz CPU with 512MB RAM. Granted it runs SuSE 7.2 (I've never gone for a later one), but there are no delays of any kind, with KDE. A very snappy machine. If I were to up it to your proposed 800MHz it would be a blazer! Even my very old 75MHz machine (64MB RAM) is fast enough for what I use it for (but that's an even older SuSE -- 5.2), while a laptop with 366MHz and 128MB RAM is still pretty good with Red Hat 9 and GNOME (though sluggish at times since GNOME is heavy and it's not long before the disk-swapping cuts in -- but, if I could put 512 MB RAM into it, it too would be pretty snappy). Hoping this helps, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 24-Jul-05 Time: 23:06:17 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
** Reply to message from Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Ted Harding) on Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:53:49 +0100 (BST)
I would like to hear comments from a few others (if there are any) who are using SUSE v9.x on systems with speeds in the neighborhood that is available to me with the faster CPU on this MB.
I would also suggest looking at your RAM. The more the merrier. How much do you have now?
512MB.
My most powerful machine has a 733MHz CPU with 512MB RAM. Granted it runs SuSE 7.2 (I've never gone for a later one), but there are no delays of any kind, with KDE. A very snappy machine. If I were to up it to your proposed 800MHz it would be a blazer!
This is very encouraging.
Even my very old 75MHz machine (64MB RAM) is fast enough for what I use it for (but that's an even older SuSE -- 5.2), while a laptop
I can understand this only if SUSE v5.2 is a real lightweight in comparison with current releases. And I don't know what to make of the example below.
with 366MHz and 128MB RAM is still pretty good with Red Hat 9 and GNOME (though sluggish at times since GNOME is heavy and it's not long before the disk-swapping cuts in -- but, if I could put 512 MB RAM into it, it too would be pretty snappy).
Hoping this helps,
It does. Many thanks. I am convinced that the 800MHz CPU is the way to go. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel "When your enemy falls, do not rejoice." -- Proverbs 24:17 Now that European currencies are superceded by the Euro, will all European banks become Eurinals?
participants (7)
-
BandiPat -
Doug McGarrett -
Felix Miata -
James Knott -
Rikard Johnels -
Stan Goodman -
Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk