On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 13:10, ianseeks wrote:

Its the 1% where a manual set up will be required.

Probably less than that. Do you have a specific case where manual setup is required? I've installed 11.2 on a lot of machines/hardware combos, and so far haven't had any issues with display setup. I do know there are a few of what has been termed "corner cases" but I have not yet encountered them. The statement on the Factory list was if you have a case where autodetect is not working it should be raised as a bug and fixed. That said, sax2 is still there in 11.2 so you're not left hanging.. you juat have to launch it from a terminal.

I was wondering how you change which driver the graphics card uses - e.g.. if i wanted to change from the proprietary Nvidia (or ATI) driver to the open source ones - how do i do it?

Add/remove the proprietary driver. That's all I've had to do. You can also still use an xorg.conf file if youre situation requires it.

Sax2 got rid of a problem on my display I had after upgrading to 11.2 and KDE4 Factory. I had a thin stripe of random colours down the right hand side. I didn't have an issue before the KDE4 Factory install so i was wondering if there was anything in it that could have affected it.

Possibly... did your update also include a different version of xorg? Do you know what was changed/added by sax2? Is there some custom config or some odd hardware combination that you have? Maybe there's a bug you've bumped into... I don't know.. I'm on KDE4.4Beta, and it's fine on my Acer AL2016W and nVidia GTX260.

Is "Configure Desktop" the same as "System Settings"? In system settings you have 5 display related icons on the general page and then one on the Advanced

In KDE4.4Beta, I only see Appearance, Desktop, Display icons in the General tab... and... in Advanced... I suppose you could include Desktop Theme Details... and Power Management... but they should be a part of Advanced. To my way of thinking, I think that the breakdown of the display related icons in the KDE4.4 Configure Desktop window is pretty good, and quite logical. Cramming them all under one would make it very cluttered. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 15:13, Rodney Baker wrote:

Any time I've wanted to have a reliable *working* dual-head setup with NVidia proprietary drivers I had to manually hack the xorg.conf file (until I found the NVidia configuration tool, which works a treat for that), especially with older monitors where the auto-detect doesn't work too well.

Is that with 11.2? or with previous versions/installs? I've set up dual head using 2xTFT monitors and it's been fine. I've not had to use the nVidia config too at all anymore... just the KDE4 config tool.

I also have an LCD TV that has 1366x768 native resolution but there are only 2 resolution/refresh rate combos that it will properly display from the VGA input: 1360x768x60Hz (no, that isn't a typo, and I'm yet to find a graphics driver that will natively support 1360x768 instead of 1366x768) or 1680x1050x75Hz (no that isn't a typo either). It isn't recognized by Sax2 or X. Unfortunately both laptops have Intel graphics chips so I can't use the NVidia config utility, so I had to generate the modeline manually and again, hack the xorg.conf file. Otherwise, no 2nd monitor.

Hmmm I have something similar here... I'll give it a try with my KDE4.4 laptop... be an interesting test to see if the autodetect will work for me. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 10 Jan 2010 12:32:42 Clayton wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 13:10, ianseeks  wrote:
> > Its the 1% where a manual set up will be required.
> 
> Probably less than that.  Do you have a specific case where manual
> setup is required?  I've installed 11.2 on a lot of machines/hardware
> combos, and so far haven't had any issues with display setup.  I do
> know there are a few of what has been termed "corner cases" but I have
> not yet encountered them.  The statement on the Factory list was if
> you have a case where autodetect is not working it should be raised as
> a bug and fixed.
I know they are few and far between but isn't it one of the main benefits of 
*nix systems where you can get to various levels of the bare bones of 
configuration options right down to editing a config file (but then again bare 
bones of Xorg is a step too far for my little brain)  
> That said, sax2 is still there in 11.2 so you're not left hanging..
> you juat have to launch it from a terminal.
> 
> > I was wondering how you change which driver the graphics card uses -
> > e.g.. if i wanted to change from the proprietary Nvidia (or ATI) driver
> > to the open source ones - how do i do it?
> 
> Add/remove the proprietary driver.  That's all I've had to do.
This is not an obvious way to do it, I would prefer that there was a Driver 
choice option on the advanced the in the "Display"  
> You can also still use an xorg.conf file if youre situation requires it.

> > Sax2 got rid of a problem on my display I had after upgrading to 11.2 and
> > KDE4 Factory. I had a thin stripe of random colours down the right hand
> > side. I didn't have an issue before the KDE4 Factory install so i was
> > wondering if there was anything in it that could have affected it.
> 
> Possibly... did your update also include a different version of xorg?
> Do you know what was changed/added by sax2?  Is there some custom
> config or some odd hardware combination that you have?  Maybe there's
> a bug you've bumped into... I don't know.. I'm on KDE4.4Beta, and it's
> fine on my Acer AL2016W and nVidia GTX260.
No, just added KDE4 Factory.  I was going add others later but haven't done so 
yet.
> > Is "Configure Desktop" the same as "System Settings"? In system settings
> > you have 5 display related icons on the general page and then one on the
> > Advanced
> 
> In KDE4.4Beta, I only see Appearance, Desktop, Display icons in the
> General tab... and... in Advanced... I suppose you could include
> Desktop Theme Details... and Power Management... but they should be a
> part of Advanced.  To my way of thinking, I think that the breakdown
> of the display related icons in the KDE4.4 Configure Desktop window is
> pretty good, and quite logical.  Cramming them all under one would
> make it very cluttered.
> 
> C.
There is also "Window Behaviour".  All these could appear under just one icon 
- Display - and from there you can split them out into the separate options.  
I believe the "Systems Settings" should also be hierarchical like a menu with 
the top level being the most high level description.  It makes it so much 
easier for someone learning the system and positive comments about KDE's ease 
of use.

regards

Ian 
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2010-01-10 at 12:10 -0000, ianseeks wrote:

Its the 1% where a manual set up will be required. I was wondering how you change which driver the graphics card uses - e.g.. if i wanted to change from the proprietary Nvidia (or ATI) driver to the open source ones - how do i do it?

You just need the part of the configuration file with the change, leave the rest on automatic. I have a "/etc/X11/xorg.conf.nv" file which I copy to "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" or delete if I want the nv driver or the default, nvidia driver. No need to remove drivers. /etc/X11/xorg.conf.nv: Section "Device" Identifier "Configured Video Device" Driver "nv" EndSection thats all it has. Simple :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAktKgFIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VRTwCgjSd6izkw1rvS/0cQzEpEA/Xu H8sAn1Zb93gwRYyGkOChtRgdMY5Ap72/ =rA1Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 11/01/10 18:46, Clayton wrote:

...

...

i wanted to change from the proprietary Nvidia (or ATI) driver to the open source ones - how do i do it?

You just need the part of the configuration file with the change, leave the rest on automatic. I have a "/etc/X11/xorg.conf.nv" file which I copy to "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" or delete if I want the nv driver or the default, nvidia driver. No need to remove drivers.

/etc/X11/xorg.conf.nv:

Section "Device" Identifier "Configured Video Device" Driver "nv" EndSection

thats all it has. Simple :-)

Ah cool. Thanks for the tip Carlos.... I'd forgotten that you could do that (I rarely ever use anything but the proprietary drivers).

The fact that your xorg.conf need only contain the customizations on top of the autodetect bit is an important one to note for those with the odd hardware combos that do require some manual intervention..

C.

I suspect - know - that I have missed the more salient points in this thread, but one can still configure the main bit of SAX2 with: Kickoff>Applications>System>Configuration>Configure x11 System. What I do not know if this will remain after 11.2 (I am using 11.2 at the moment). BC -- Take the bull by the tail and look the facts in the face. W C Fields -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2010-01-11 at 08:46 +0100, Clayton wrote:

...

/etc/X11/xorg.conf.nv:

Section "Device"    Identifier "Configured Video Device"    Driver             "nv" EndSection

thats all it has. Simple :-)

Ah cool. Thanks for the tip Carlos.... I'd forgotten that you could do that (I rarely ever use anything but the proprietary drivers).

Me, I always used the open driver, except when I want to use a game with 3D. Unfortunately, my new machine is unable to hibernate with the open (nv) driver. The problem is that the first time I switched to the proprietary driver, my gnome desktop drove me nuts: windows "wobbled" when I moved them. I thought the display was using a terribly slow refresh or redraw speed; perhaps I had been had with my shiny big new display. I fought the problem for an hour or two. Suddenly I hit ctrl-alt-right to change to another workspace and I saw "the" cube rotating... all was clear. Suse guys have enabled compiz by default, but it is inactive till you put a capable driver in. I had to remove completely the compiz rpms from the system. I could not find a master switch to just disable compiz. Novell says it is very easy (I wrote a bugzilla on this issue which they disregarded succinctly), but it mustn't be that easy when there is a wiki page on how to disable compiz... :-( I recogn, though, that it has never been so easy to enable the nvidia driver before. That's a good thing. Just enable the repo, update, done. Works! Such a difference from a decade ago... And I did not have to configure xorg.conf, either. I suppose my machines are easy, or I was lucky.

The fact that your xorg.conf need only contain the customizations on top of the autodetect bit is an important one to note for those with the odd hardware combos that do require some manual intervention..

Absolutely. We'll probably need a new tool to do that, though. I don't like leaving this to the user on the desktop: it should be done by the administrator, for all users and all possible desktop choices. And it can not be Sax. For technical reasons I don't fully understand, but the thing is, keyboard and mouse is out of the direct control of the X system, it comes from... was it hal? Therefore, Sax can do nought on that side. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAktLeNYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UlBgCfQaVwOPB0u3wYZPs1ogfSU6lS b0MAoI3DnZGuvBobBCrpfw4FdeP3alVV =cQNB -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2010-01-11 at 20:24 +0100, Clayton wrote:

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 20:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The problem is that the first time I switched to the proprietary driver, my gnome desktop drove me nuts: windows "wobbled" when I moved them. I thought the display was using a terribly slow refresh or redraw speed; perhaps I had been had with my shiny big new display. I fought the problem for an hour or two. Suddenly I hit ctrl-alt-right to change to another workspace and I saw "the" cube rotating... all was clear. Suse guys have enabled compiz by default, but it is inactive till you put a capable driver in.

In KDE4 the compositing thing is very toned down in comparison - eg no wobbly windows. Plus, disabling compositing is super easy with an Alt+Shift+F12. (there must be something similar in Gnome.. or have the Gnome devs decided that that too is too confusing and removed it?)

You have to know beforehand that there is a key that disables it. I don't. It is enabled in the control center, I think it is called "desktop effects" or similar. Actually, it is enabled by default, and it works as soon as you have 3D driver installed. As I did not enable compiz, I had no idea how to disable it, I had not read any docs. And I still don't know. They say it is very simple... well, it can't be so simple, as there are one or two wiki pages describing how to disable compiz.

I have tried using the nv driver, but.. overall it simply doesn't work well enough for me.. i hate having to re-enable the proprietary driver every time I want to do something extra... so it's always enabled/in use on my system.

I usually don't need anything the propietary driver provides. I don't play games. What else is it good for? >:-) Except that hybernation is broken. That's the only reason I need it on my new machine. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAktQwmwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VU4wCeKlrdiMuT5T9iJADL8peZyhDF WR0An2m9R66wRgCMj0kUcRTIEd96Umad =66Yq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2010-01-15 at 22:13 +0100, Clayton wrote:

That said, I do agree that the default desktop effects setting in Gnome could *definitely* do with a revisit and tone them down just a little. Wobbly windows look neat and all and are nice for showing off, but in reality, I'd bet that few people actually leave the wobbly windows turned on in the long term.

Most certainly.

...

or similar. Actually, it is enabled by default, and it works as soon as you have 3D driver installed. As I did not enable compiz, I had no idea how to disable it, I had not read any docs. And I still don't know.

Oh come on... it's not hard... I don't use Gnome.. took me all of 10 seconds to figure it out when I logged into Gnome on my test computer.... and I'm not that smart :-) I'd bet you'd figure it out in about the same length of time. It took more effort to grumble about it on the mailing list :-)

It took me an hour, no less. The "enable" icon did not disable it. I had to go disabling every single item in the configuration, and that produced a desktop that simply did not work in "plain" mode. I had to remove the compiz rpms, and delete all the gnome config files. Certainly, no "checkbox" was there to disable it. Now that I know, I could reinstall it and try, if I have time.

...

I usually don't need anything the propietary driver provides. I don't play games. What else is it good for? >:-)

It REALLY makes a difference in my experience on my media center (using the proprietary drivers), and it makes a difference in my experience with Flash in web pages.

Flash? Dunno, I haven't noticed. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAktTCXoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VWyQCfSMh05BmGSgCWqwY3B2NbEk2r KuIAn1xLOMFn+NOoTcmgyoMr40kyT5MH =3TiZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Am Sonntag, 10. Januar 2010 12:07:40 schrieb Clayton:

...

Anyone know why Sax2 is no longer in Yast? It's being phased out - as was discussed on the Factory list a couple months ago. You can still launch it from CLI, but in future releases... it won't be included anymore. It's basically lived out most of its life. X has a relatively robust autodetect now... it works in 99% of the cases. Does that mean I could just connect a graphics tablet on USB and it would just work without any intervention? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

...

Anyone know why Sax2 is no longer in Yast?

It's being phased out - as was discussed on the Factory list a couple months ago. You can still launch it from CLI, but in future releases... it won't be included anymore.

This is opensuse list. Most of the members here, I guess, are not reading factory list. I never understood why people have to reference to the factory list (except if it is a direct link to a specific message). It is nonsene.

It's basically lived out most of its life. X has a relatively robust autodetect now... it works in 99% of the cases. I can't understand these types of explanations either. What does it mean "lived out most of its life"? It can not be stated until it is still required by users and functional. (Similarly it is said by some that KDE3 lived out its life, and it is not true either.)

Furthermore the autodetect method just does not work. I had to configure 7 or 8 monitors recently, and the autodect method failed every time. It is not 1 % or less. The autodect method forces a given setup and does not let you choose. How the autodectect method could find out what the resolution is I want to use? How can it find out if I want 1600x1200, 1280x960, 1024x768 or only 800x600? The autodetect method can not read anybody's thoughts. Why don't the system let the user select what he wants?

This method (autodetect) works WAY better than the old SAX2 tool > ever did - assuming you're not one of the unlucky/rare few who have an undetected monitor. I've used the autodetect a lot with my > >laptop, connecting it to an external projector, and it's got it right >100%. I don not know why it is WAY better to configure a monitor to flicker than to not flicker? Can you explain it?

...

Should something like Sax2 be apart of the Advanced section of "System Settings"?

No, since SAX2 is no longer necessary for most system configs. There are still a few unusual monitors that the auto config thing doesn't pick up on, but they are not all that common. If you have a config that is not working with the autodetect in X, then it needs to be raised as a bug so it can be fixed/added etc. This is completely nonsense. The issue is that the system forces you to accept something that may not be correct or according to your needs. This regards to not only opensuse but other distros too.

They are all in a single point.... the only place a new user needs to go is Configure Desktop (KDE4) or Control Center (Gnome). In the other lesser used GUIs it's basically the same... using whatever desktop Configure tools they provide. Yes and at next login you have to set it again, since the system soulc not remember the stting (Xubuntu). But if it can you still might have a badly configured login window.

All in all I agree with the idea/goal that setup should be made automatically but completely disagree with removing tools used for adjusting settings according to users needs. Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

...

This is opensuse list. Most of the members here, I guess, are not reading factory list. I never understood why people have to reference to the factory list (except if it is a direct link to a specific message). It is nonsene.

And.. what's your point? I listen in on the Factory list... and all I was doing is letting the OP know that this was discussed on the Factory list. Nothing more. I wasn't suggesting that the OP should be subscribed there.. if it was interpreted that way... well.... that was not the intention.

Sorry for I was rude. I misundertsood you, thougt that you expected us to read factory list. I apologize.

...

...

It's basically lived out most of its life. X has a relatively robust autodetect now... it works in 99% of the cases. I can't understand these types of explanations either. What does it mean

"lived out most of its life"? It can not be stated until it is still required by users and functional. (Similarly it is said by some that KDE3 lived out its life, and it is not true either.)

Simple... in most cases it's not needed anymore.. thus it's lived out most of its life. You can phrase it however you want, but the reality is that it is an old technology that is being replaced by soemthing newer and frankly easier to use. I'm not a dev, just a user relaying that info that I read on the Factory mailing list. If you don't like it.. take it up with the devs. This could be a discussion beyond the borders of this topic.

Once more, autodetection is good (and it worked in earlier SUSE versions as well). What I am saying is that tools which can be used to change default settings should not be removed from the main configuration center, not to mention the whole distro. So those who are satisfied with the results of autodetection are not going to use use them, those who want to change something has a tool and do not have to hack config files and/or file bug reports. Cheers, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 11/01/10 22:15, Istvan Gabor wrote:

...

...

This is opensuse list. Most of the members here, I guess, are not

reading factory list. I never understood why people have to reference to the factory list (except if it is a direct link to a specific message). It is nonsene.

...

And.. what's your point? I listen in on the Factory list... and all I was doing is letting the OP know that this was discussed on the Factory list. Nothing more. I wasn't suggesting that the OP should be subscribed there.. if it was interpreted that way... well.... that was not the intention.

Sorry for I was rude. I misundertsood you, thougt that you expected us to read factory list. I apologize.

[pruned] Istvan, my most humble apologies but could you, *please*, configure whatever mail client - most probably some MS <shudder> production - you are using so that it quotes at the beginning the name of the poster to whom you are replying and the date (and time) of that poster's message? I haven't a bloody clue to whom and to what you are replying to and when the part you are replying to was posted (was it last week or last year or yesterday)? :-) Thank you muchly :-) . BC -- Take the bull by the tail and look the facts in the face. W C Fields -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org