[opensuse] wicked startup delay
So since I've spent a lot of time watching Leap booting recently :( I noticed that there's a noticeable delay whilst it sits there waiting for wicked to do something*. I just had a look at a presentation about wicked and it appears to be designed to deal with network complexity, which I don't need. It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops, so I guess I selected something whilst installing. I'm old school and I just want a simple wired connection to my switch, with DHCP from my router beyond that. The PC is capable of wi-fi but I want that disabled. What's the best way to reconfigure my PC to have the simplest network configuration? Cheers, Dave * I'm not at home, which is why I'm not explicit about the message. Hopefully it's not necessary to know what the message was to answer my question, but if it is then please let me know and I'll post it later. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 11:16 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops,
No. For laptops.
I'm old school and I just want a simple wired connection to my switch, with DHCP from my router beyond that. The PC is capable of wi-fi but I want that disabled.
dhcp can be slow on some combinations. Fixed IP is faster. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlb+UhwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UEfACfanfGBQUc+lx8LjsrEhNsyvHy MzIAn1t58GEpKtQn1JKV0loX4ph1KCx2 =K8GF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-04-01 11:49, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 11:16 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops,
No. For laptops.
https://www.susecon.com/doc/2014/sessions/TUT7562.pdf Wicked – A Network Manager Olaf Kirch Director SUSE® Linux Enterprise - SUSE Linux Enterprise Server defaults to using wicked – SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop defaults to using NetworkManager
I'm old school and I just want a simple wired connection to my switch, with DHCP from my router beyond that. The PC is capable of wi-fi but I want that disabled.
dhcp can be slow on some combinations. Fixed IP is faster.
Agreed, but I don't think that is the cause of the delay. It's more like a timeout delay. Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-04-01 15:35, Dave Howorth wrote:
On 2016-04-01 11:49, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 11:16 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops,
No. For laptops.
https://www.susecon.com/doc/2014/sessions/TUT7562.pdf
Wicked – A Network Manager Olaf Kirch Director SUSE® Linux Enterprise
- SUSE Linux Enterprise Server defaults to using wicked
– SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop defaults to using NetworkManager
This is not SLES. It is openSUSE.
dhcp can be slow on some combinations. Fixed IP is faster.
Agreed, but I don't think that is the cause of the delay. It's more like a timeout delay.
Exactly what I would expect. While it doesn't get an address it waits, and forces to wait the whole sequence of boot. There are many services that depend on network, so they all wait. Till timeout. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 2016-04-01 15:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2016-04-01 15:35, Dave Howorth wrote:
On 2016-04-01 11:49, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 11:16 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops,
No. For laptops.
https://www.susecon.com/doc/2014/sessions/TUT7562.pdf
Wicked – A Network Manager Olaf Kirch Director SUSE® Linux Enterprise
- SUSE Linux Enterprise Server defaults to using wicked
– SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop defaults to using NetworkManager
This is not SLES. It is openSUSE.
dhcp can be slow on some combinations. Fixed IP is faster.
Agreed, but I don't think that is the cause of the delay. It's more like a timeout delay.
Exactly what I would expect.
Why would you expect it to not get an address?
While it doesn't get an address it waits, and forces to wait the whole sequence of boot. There are many services that depend on network, so they all wait. Till timeout.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 15:25 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
On 2016-04-01 15:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:
dhcp can be slow on some combinations. Fixed IP is faster.
Agreed, but I don't think that is the cause of the delay. It's more like a timeout delay.
Exactly what I would expect.
Why would you expect it to not get an address?
I didn't say that. Read again the next paragraph:
While it doesn't get an address it waits, and forces to wait the whole sequence of boot. There are many services that depend on network, so they all wait. Till timeout.
Why it doesn't get an address is a different issue. But whatever network setup daemon you use, it has to wait till it gets one. And if it is the system connection, the machine doesn't boot, or waits for as long as the timeout is. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlb+iYoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W6iwCdGtQ4PLkPOEc7EzBwy4F0MySj 4sYAoIi28TvW8A51vuniYwk70cT+eges =PDrI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-04-01 15:45, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 15:25 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
On 2016-04-01 15:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:
dhcp can be slow on some combinations. Fixed IP is faster.
Agreed, but I don't think that is the cause of the delay. It's more like a timeout delay.
Exactly what I would expect.
Why would you expect it to not get an address?
I didn't say that.
Read again the next paragraph:
Doesn't help me understand, I'm afraid.
While it doesn't get an address it waits, and forces to wait the whole sequence of boot. There are many services that depend on network, so they all wait. Till timeout.
Why it doesn't get an address is a different issue. But whatever network setup daemon you use, it has to wait till it gets one. And if it is the system connection, the machine doesn't boot, or waits for as long as the timeout is.
I have no reason to suppose that it isn't getting an address, so I see no reason for it to be waiting for anything. You're the one that is suggesting that you would expect it to be waiting for an address, so I'm asking you why you think it might be waiting for an address. I don't know of any reason. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 15:53 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
Doesn't help me understand, I'm afraid.
Let's try again. When it doesn't get an address, which is a thing that sometimes it happens, for whatever reason, then wicked waits and waits and waits. As simple as that. And boot waits and waits and waits. The question is not why it waits. The question is why it doesn't get an address. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlb+umgACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WyzgCcDGnMYlJzwl97w5y2Juxpk9lP 5acAnRY0+XVrFt6+CLvu/tJ/7+LNT8qb =c75S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 11:37 -0700, John Andersen wrote:
On 04/01/2016 11:14 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The question is not why it waits. The question is why it doesn't get an address.
You are jumping to conclusions. Dave already said that it was not waiting for an address.
How does he know? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlb+wfsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UPbQCfcsk1Riqb/nB/FqV/AeQqjYWQ 6tsAnjGvkkQv+n71EQiXv0ndDagZCNDB =3TyL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 02:14 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
When it doesn't get an address, which is a thing that sometimes it happens, for whatever reason, then wicked waits and waits and waits. As simple as that. And boot waits and waits and waits.
The question is not why it waits. The question is why it doesn't get an address.
*MY* question is why use wiked in this situation at all? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Anton Aylward <opensuse@antonaylward.com> [04-01-16 16:52]:
On 04/01/2016 02:14 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
When it doesn't get an address, which is a thing that sometimes it happens, for whatever reason, then wicked waits and waits and waits. As simple as that. And boot waits and waits and waits.
The question is not why it waits. The question is why it doesn't get an address.
*MY* question is why use wiked in this situation at all?
Perhaps his system reacts to NetworkManager as all six of my local linux machines, it works sometimes but usually not and never in less than graphical target. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 16:50 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 02:14 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
When it doesn't get an address, which is a thing that sometimes it happens, for whatever reason, then wicked waits and waits and waits. As simple as that. And boot waits and waits and waits.
The question is not why it waits. The question is why it doesn't get an address.
*MY* question is why use wiked in this situation at all?
Why not? :-? :-o - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlb+4RsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VLEQCfa61VteErMUtymZAgzVfC2b4r nHoAn3g3ObBABkPS6Z+J7KFr6yxHMv2O =LBES -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 16:50 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 02:14 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
When it doesn't get an address, which is a thing that sometimes it happens, for whatever reason, then wicked waits and waits and waits. As simple as that. And boot waits and waits and waits.
The question is not why it waits. The question is why it doesn't get an address.
*MY* question is why use wiked in this situation at all?
Why not? :-? :-o
Exactly!
Wicked provides a new framework for network configuration and is a replacement for the `ifup` family of scripts. That's all. /Per -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 04:59 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 16:50 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 02:14 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
When it doesn't get an address, which is a thing that sometimes it happens, for whatever reason, then wicked waits and waits and waits. As simple as that. And boot waits and waits and waits.
The question is not why it waits. The question is why it doesn't get an address.
*MY* question is why use wiked in this situation at all?
Why not? :-? :-o
The why not is that using it seems to be part of the problem. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 18:33 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 04:59 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
*MY* question is why use wiked in this situation at all?
Why not? :-? :-o
The why not is that using it seems to be part of the problem.
Ah, ok. Yes, the OP could try to use network manager for a while to see if it makes a difference. It has to be in the mode "share for other users" or whatever is the name. A system connection, not a user connection. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlb/sLoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VrRgCfcXQiDtV133dLd1m5sUXv11BT ag0AnjzbuAZ84dg11+tBvbOEkoNZPaA+ =r7aH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 10:45 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Why it doesn't get an address is a different issue. But whatever network setup daemon you use, it has to wait till it gets one. And if it is the system connection, the machine doesn't boot, or waits for as long as the timeout is.
There's a systemd tool, systemd-analyze Try systemd-analyze critical-chain and look for the line about network service. The @ number tells you when it started, how long from boot. The + number tells you how long it took. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2016-04-01 at 11:22 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 10:45 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Why it doesn't get an address is a different issue. But whatever network setup daemon you use, it has to wait till it gets one. And if it is the system connection, the machine doesn't boot, or waits for as long as the timeout is.
There's a systemd tool, systemd-analyze Try systemd-analyze critical-chain
and look for the line about network service. The @ number tells you when it started, how long from boot. The + number tells you how long it took.
Ahh, thanks muchly :) I'm not sure I understand it entirely so here it is for expert eyes: The time after the unit is active or started is printed after the "@" character. The time the unit takes to start is printed after the "+" character. graphical.target @40.063s ââmulti-user.target @40.063s ââcron.service @40.063s ââpostfix.service @39.764s +298ms ââtime-sync.target @39.764s âântpd.service @39.619s +145ms âânetwork.target @39.606s ââwicked.service @21.637s +17.967s ââwickedd-nanny.service @21.633s +3ms ââwickedd.service @21.629s +3ms ââwickedd-dhcp4.service @21.622s +5ms ââSuSEfirewall2_init.service @9.607s +12.013s ââbasic.target @8.062s ââtimers.target @8.062s ââsystemd-tmpfiles-clean.timer @8.062s ââsysinit.target @8.062s ââapparmor.service @7.382s +679ms ââsystemd-tmpfiles-setup.service @7.271s +110ms ââlocal-fs.target @6.936s ââhome.mount @6.486s +448ms ââsystemd-fsck@dev-disk-by \x2duuid-8b409a8d\x2d81a2\x2d414c\x2d87ba\x2da0d74d61b189.service @4.976s +1.509s ââdev-disk-by \x2duuid-8b409a8d\x2d81a2\x2d414c\x2d87ba\x2da0d74d61b189.device @4.975s Apologies for the gobbledygook. The file displays correctly on the source machine (with tree lines) but not on the machine with the mail client. The file is binary identical on both machines. Both machines use utf-8. It's not the mail client 'cos it doesn't display properly in a terminal either. Missing font? (stupid display format for a basic system tool if it depends on a loadable font!) Anyway, it looks like wicked.service, SuSEfirewall2_init.service, and dev-disk-by\x2duuid* are the culprits in some way. wicked.service is perhaps only guilty by association? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 01:35 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:
Anyway, it looks like wicked.service, SuSEfirewall2_init.service, and dev-disk-by\x2duuid* are the culprits in some way. wicked.service is perhaps only guilty by association?
Forget the disk startup; that's a given, there may be a unit that takes care of disk startup delays that is responsible; or perhaps disk startup is responsible. My machine takes longer to do the fsck'ing and the tmp file cleaning. Do you need the firewall on the PC? I have a firewall in my router/switch (which also has a VPN gateway, but that's beside the point). Please do try without the firewall and without wiked and using static addresses and see if its any different. I got to my setup having experimented with a lot of other ways of doing things. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 10:55 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 01:35 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:
Anyway, it looks like wicked.service, SuSEfirewall2_init.service, and dev-disk-by\x2duuid* are the culprits in some way. wicked.service is perhaps only guilty by association?
Forget the disk startup; that's a given, there may be a unit that takes care of disk startup delays that is responsible; or perhaps disk startup is responsible. My machine takes longer to do the fsck'ing and the tmp file cleaning.
Do you need the firewall on the PC?
I have a firewall in my router/switch (which also has a VPN gateway, but that's beside the point).
Please do try without the firewall and without wiked and using static addresses and see if its any different.
I got to my setup having experimented with a lot of other ways of doing things.
Actually, I suspect that wicked is trying to bring up both interfaces as that time. A typical DHCP request takes something like +275ms, but if it is setting up a wifi, for which there is no reachable accesspoint, that process can take a lot longer. There is just about no way you could extend a dhcp request to chew up 18 seconds and still SUCCEED! -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
On 04/01/2016 10:55 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 01:35 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:
Anyway, it looks like wicked.service, SuSEfirewall2_init.service, and dev-disk-by\x2duuid* are the culprits in some way. wicked.service is perhaps only guilty by association?
Forget the disk startup; that's a given, there may be a unit that takes care of disk startup delays that is responsible; or perhaps disk startup is responsible. My machine takes longer to do the fsck'ing and the tmp file cleaning.
Do you need the firewall on the PC?
I have a firewall in my router/switch (which also has a VPN gateway, but that's beside the point).
Please do try without the firewall and without wiked and using static addresses and see if its any different.
I got to my setup having experimented with a lot of other ways of doing things.
Actually, I suspect that wicked is trying to bring up both interfaces as that time. A typical DHCP request takes something like +275ms, but if it is setting up a wifi, for which there is no reachable accesspoint, that process can take a lot longer.
There is just about no way you could extend a dhcp request to chew up 18 seconds and still SUCCEED!
I agree. Here's the log from the dhcp exchange when my wife (her iphone) came home today: Apr 1 19:29:08 dresden dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 84:b1:53:e5:b0:8c (Nadine) via eth0 Apr 1 19:29:09 dresden dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.7.69 to 84:b1:53:e5:b0:8c (Nadine) via eth0 Apr 1 19:29:10 dresden dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.7.69 (192.168.2.137) from 84:b1:53:e5:b0:8c (Nadine) via eth0 Apr 1 19:29:10 dresden dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.7.69 to 84:b1:53:e5:b0:8c (Nadine) via eth0 Less than 2 seconds. The 192.168.7.x range is reserved for all unknown devices, including our own mobiles and such. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.6°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2016-04-01 at 21:13 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
On 04/01/2016 10:55 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 01:35 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:
Anyway, it looks like wicked.service, SuSEfirewall2_init.service, and dev-disk-by\x2duuid* are the culprits in some way. wicked.service is perhaps only guilty by association?
Forget the disk startup; that's a given, there may be a unit that takes care of disk startup delays that is responsible; or perhaps disk startup is responsible. My machine takes longer to do the fsck'ing and the tmp file cleaning.
Do you need the firewall on the PC?
I have a firewall in my router/switch (which also has a VPN gateway, but that's beside the point).
Please do try without the firewall and without wiked and using static addresses and see if its any different.
I got to my setup having experimented with a lot of other ways of doing things.
Actually, I suspect that wicked is trying to bring up both interfaces as that time. A typical DHCP request takes something like +275ms, but if it is setting up a wifi, for which there is no reachable accesspoint, that process can take a lot longer.
There is just about no way you could extend a dhcp request to chew up 18 seconds and still SUCCEED!
I agree. Here's the log from the dhcp exchange when my wife (her iphone) came home today:
Apr 1 19:29:08 dresden dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 84:b1:53:e5:b0:8c (Nadine) via eth0 Apr 1 19:29:09 dresden dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.7.69 to 84:b1:53:e5:b0:8c (Nadine) via eth0 Apr 1 19:29:10 dresden dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.7.69 (192.168.2.137) from 84:b1:53:e5:b0:8c (Nadine) via eth0 Apr 1 19:29:10 dresden dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.7.69 to 84:b1:53:e5:b0:8c (Nadine) via eth0
Less than 2 seconds. The 192.168.7.x range is reserved for all unknown devices, including our own mobiles and such.
Thanks John, Per, According to YaST, the wired ethernet is DHCP and the wireless is Not configured. I'd hope that means wicked wouldn't try to bring it up. Where can I check (I'm brand new to the systemd logging system). Hostname is fixed in YaST, DNS is Use Default Policy. Everything else seems to be blank. Ahh, Enable IPv6 was set. That could cause a timeout. I've unset it and will check if that fixes the problem. Later ... That certainly fixes part of the problem. There's still a delay for the Firewall and/or something called Modem Manager. I've no idea what that is or why it would be active. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth wrote:
According to YaST, the wired ethernet is DHCP and the wireless is Not configured. I'd hope that means wicked wouldn't try to bring it up.
Nah, it won't.
Where can I check (I'm brand new to the systemd logging system).
some magical incantation involving journalctl will do it, but I don't think you need to worry.
Hostname is fixed in YaST, DNS is Use Default Policy. Everything else seems to be blank.
Ahh, Enable IPv6 was set. That could cause a timeout.
Unless you also have dhcp4+6, it wont't. It'll cause your interface to be configured with a link-local address (fe80::), that's all.
I've unset it and will check if that fixes the problem. Later ... That certainly fixes part of the problem.
That is very interesting. Could you try leaving IPv6 enabled and configuring the interface for DHCPv4 only?
There's still a delay for the Firewall and/or something called Modem Manager. I've no idea what that is or why it would be active.
ISTR even writing a bugreport on that modem manage thingier, but a looong time ago. /Per -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth composed on 2016-04-01 20:51 (UTC+0100):
something called Modem Manager. I've no idea what that is or why it would be active.
Modem Manager is apparently a QT and/or Plasma bloat component: # zypper se -s --requires ModemManager | ModemManager | package | 1.4.10-3.2 | x86_64 | OSS | ModemManager-devel | package | 1.4.10-3.2 | x86_64 | OSS | ModemManager-lang | package | 1.4.10-3.2 | noarch | OSS | libKF5ModemManagerQt-devel | package | 5.15.0-1.1 | x86_64 | OSS | libKF5ModemManagerQt-devel | package | 5.16.0-3.1 | x86_64 | Update | libKF5ModemManagerQt-devel | package | 5.19.0-6.3 | x86_64 | Update | libModemManagerQt-devel | package | 1.0.1-6.3 | x86_64 | OSS | libNetworkManagerQt-devel | package | 0.9.8.3-2.2 | x86_64 | OSS | libNetworkManagerQt1 | package | 0.9.8.3-2.2 | x86_64 | OSS | modem-manager-gui | package | 0.0.17.1-4.10 | x86_64 | OSS | package-lists-openSUSE-images | package | 42.1-26.1 | x86_64 | OSS | plasma-nm5 | package | 5.4.2-1.2 | x86_64 | OSS | plasma-nm5 | package | 5.4.3-3.2 | x86_64 | Update | plasma-nm5 | package | 5.5.4-6.3 | x86_64 | Update | plasma-nm5 | package | 5.5.5-9.1 | x86_64 | Update Trying to get rid of MM tries to get rid of the foundation of KDE: # zypper se -s --requires plasma-nm5 ... | plasma5-session | package | 5.4.2-1.1 | noarch | OSS | plasma5-session | package | 5.4.3-3.1 | noarch | Update | plasma5-session | package | 5.5.4-6.1 | noarch | Update | plasma5-session | package | 5.5.5-9.1 | noarch | Update Why it would be active on an installation with active ethernet I can't say, but maybe that's an element of your delay. Maybe Wicked goes looking for a modem connection if DHCP doesn't bring LAN connection up fast enough, and the two get tangled. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2016-04-01 at 18:28 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
Dave Howorth composed on 2016-04-01 20:51 (UTC+0100):
something called Modem Manager. I've no idea what that is or why it would be active.
Modem Manager is apparently a QT and/or Plasma bloat component: # zypper se -s --requires ModemManager | ModemManager | package | 1.4.10-3.2 | x86_64 | OSS | ModemManager-devel | package | 1.4.10-3.2 | x86_64 | OSS | ModemManager-lang | package | 1.4.10-3.2 | noarch | OSS | libKF5ModemManagerQt-devel | package | 5.15.0-1.1 | x86_64 | OSS | libKF5ModemManagerQt-devel | package | 5.16.0-3.1 | x86_64 | Update | libKF5ModemManagerQt-devel | package | 5.19.0-6.3 | x86_64 | Update | libModemManagerQt-devel | package | 1.0.1-6.3 | x86_64 | OSS | libNetworkManagerQt-devel | package | 0.9.8.3-2.2 | x86_64 | OSS | libNetworkManagerQt1 | package | 0.9.8.3-2.2 | x86_64 | OSS | modem-manager-gui | package | 0.0.17.1-4.10 | x86_64 | OSS | package-lists-openSUSE-images | package | 42.1-26.1 | x86_64 | OSS | plasma-nm5 | package | 5.4.2-1.2 | x86_64 | OSS | plasma-nm5 | package | 5.4.3-3.2 | x86_64 | Update | plasma-nm5 | package | 5.5.4-6.3 | x86_64 | Update | plasma-nm5 | package | 5.5.5-9.1 | x86_64 | Update
Trying to get rid of MM tries to get rid of the foundation of KDE:
Hmm, I don't use KDE, though there are still a bunch of installed packages with names like kde* and I may want to use some random kde application at some point, so I'll leave those I suppose. I deleted ModemManager and it had no dependencies. There's also something called libmm-glib0 that has the same description but it is required by NetworkManager, which I also don't use but perhaps is likely to cause more problems if deleted. The ModemManager messages seem to be associated with the Firewall messages rather than wicked. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 03:51 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:
Ahh, Enable IPv6 was set. That could cause a timeout. I've unset it and will check if that fixes the problem. Later ... That certainly fixes part of the problem. There's still a delay for the Firewall and/or something called Modem Manager. I've no idea what that is or why it would be active.
Can you expand on that, please. Is wicked still taking time? Is the firewall still a source of delay? Any idea why? I wonder if there is some config issue with the firewall? Is there anything in the logs that might indicate what is happening? I've tried to clear out unnecessary processes in my IP stack and don't run firewall on the PC. I've got filtering on my DSl router and on the DSL/switch port. If I could justify a host-based firewall on the PC which is downstream of the switch, then I'd have to justify a firewall of some sort on every other device downstream of the switch like the printer. It gets excessive. The DSL router and the switch port are the common 'choke points'. That's where I have the filtering. I'm trusting that my printer won't suddenly turn round and attack my wifi router. I think that's a reasonable assumption :-) Now the Saturday morning TL;DR bit ... I realise that many people in the 'at home' context connect their PC "directly" to the 'net via a simple model, be it dial-up, DSL, fibre, whatever. I also realise that many people are in a corporate setting where they really don't know what else is out there on the large scale corporate LAN/WAN. For these people host based firewall is a necessity. Sidebar: Oh, it gets worse! my neighbour, a 85 year old "little old lady" has a wifi couple tablet she turns on in the evenings to use to email/skype with her daughter and grandkids, sometimes. I see it appear as "mariasmodem". It is cable/DSL supplied by the cable company. A techie came by one day and set it up for her. It has a USB port and a set of 4 Ethernet ports on the back. All it does is NAT. I don't think she has a firewall on the old Apple laptop her son gave her, and I dread to think what she has plugged n to those Ethernet ports. What's more terrifying is that there are millions of people with much the same set-up. Its people like her that NEED host based security, but rarely have it. I realise that Microsoft have tried to add a host based firewall to MS-Windows for some while now, but I also see many people turning it off. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 12:51 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Fri, 2016-04-01 at 21:13 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
I found this thread on the openSUSE forum: https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/514501-Slow-boot-33s-waiting-for-... I'm not sure if the op is posting in that thread or is the originator, but it looks like other people are talking about the same exact issue, RE: Wicked hanging up the system on boot. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2016-04-03 at 00:06 -0700, sdm wrote:
On 04/01/2016 12:51 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Fri, 2016-04-01 at 21:13 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
I found this thread on the openSUSE forum: https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/514501-Slow-boot-33s-waiting-for-...
I'm not sure if the op is posting in that thread or is the originator, but it looks like other people are talking about the same exact issue, RE: Wicked hanging up the system on boot.
Thanks for that. It's not me posting in the forums, because I can't log in (see elsewhere in the thread). The OP in forum thread has raised a bug: https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=972471 So anybody else who can post could add their symptoms to the bug. The thread discusses several possible fixes and various posters seem to have different root causes. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/03/2016 02:08 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Sun, 2016-04-03 at 00:06 -0700, sdm wrote:
On 04/01/2016 12:51 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Fri, 2016-04-01 at 21:13 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
I found this thread on the openSUSE forum: https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/514501-Slow-boot-33s-waiting-for-...
I'm not sure if the op is posting in that thread or is the originator, but it looks like other people are talking about the same exact issue, RE: Wicked hanging up the system on boot. Thanks for that. It's not me posting in the forums, because I can't log in (see elsewhere in the thread). The OP in forum thread has raised a bug:
https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=972471
So anybody else who can post could add their symptoms to the bug.
The thread discusses several possible fixes and various posters seem to have different root causes.
If someone here posts in that bug report, can you please put a link to this thread in the Mail List Archive. This way eveybody gets on the same page, and shows it's not just a few forum people having issues, it's an issue cutting all across the board and one in which I fist noticed when I first tried Leap and that hadn't ever gotten fixed. Thanks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.20.1604012016540.6209@Grypbagne.inyvabe> On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 18:35 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
â??â??network.target @39.606s â??â??wicked.service @21.637s +17.967s
There you have. 18s.
â??â??SuSEfirewall2_init.service @9.607s +12.013s
This is probably waiting on the other. My guess is that it is not getting an address, so just try giving it a fixed address. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlb+u1EACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UD+QCdFAI8UswrKmjKhOF52295ZNdC F5oAoIyITPItvTWZOpa4q5gJdDkGcscP =8d7y -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 04/01/2016 03:49 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
dhcp can be slow on some combinations. Fixed IP is faster.
Seriously, this is an utterly silly objection. DHCP is the world wide standard, and nobody needs to get their machine on line 2 miliseconds faster. If you have a delay longer than that, your dhcp server is broken. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 11:13 -0700, John Andersen wrote:
On 04/01/2016 03:49 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
dhcp can be slow on some combinations. Fixed IP is faster.
Seriously, this is an utterly silly objection. DHCP is the world wide standard, and nobody needs to get their machine on line 2 miliseconds faster.
I'm not talking milliseconds, but many seconds.
If you have a delay longer than that, your dhcp server is broken.
Well, it happens. Most likely client and server don't talk the same language flavour. There are, I think, two client daemons, so the previous trick was to try one or the other. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlb+vBUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Wz1ACfTbfZfVDsshCTpRw3ZhXlveop oacAn004W5kDLIozg+tmd4aiuArLRjSt =E00l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 03:49 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops, No. For laptops.
The type of machine does not matter a bit. If you have wifi, and there is even a vague possibility you might use it, then install network manager. it handles cat 5 connections just fine. it handles wifi just fine. It offers the ability to set wifi off, and not use it. It retains wifi passwords and access points for you. I have a machine like Dave's that has wifi, but on which I seldom use wifi (its a desktop computer). But occasionally the network is down and I turn on my Android Phone's wifi Hot Spot. I also have some laptops that might use wifi when I travel, and even occasionally while not traveling. They are all set up to use Network Manager and DHCP. Why? because it works even for fixed/wired machines. And it is very fast. If I need a static IP on any device, I do a reservation in the dhcp server. Side Rant:---------- Having a static that is not programmed into the dhcp server (in other words a usurped static IP) is just asking for problems, because when that machine is off, the dhcp server may lease out that iP, which makes for collisions which forces re-lease when that statically assigned machine comes back on line. And depending on which machine had its leased IP usurped, it can cause disruption all over the network. Ive had database servers get knocked off line by some clown deciding that a static IP was the way to go, and he just grabbed one at random for his phone. So of course this disruption went on and off for days as his phone joined and parted the network. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 11:34 -0700, John Andersen wrote:
On 04/01/2016 03:49 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops, No. For laptops.
The type of machine does not matter a bit. If you have wifi, and there is even a vague possibility you might use it, then install network manager.
Wait. It is not about what you choose to do, but what the installation system chooses for you, as defaults.
Side Rant:----------
Having a static that is not programmed into the dhcp server (in other words a usurped static IP) is just asking for problems, because when that machine is off, the dhcp server may lease out that iP, which makes for collisions which forces re-lease when that statically assigned machine comes back on line. And depending on which machine had its leased IP usurped, it can cause disruption all over the network.
Ive had database servers get knocked off line by some clown deciding that a static IP was the way to go, and he just grabbed one at random for his phone. So of course this disruption went on and off for days as his phone joined and parted the network.
Sigh. :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlb+wc8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WJ6QCeLfQfoE1eJtwIpuIDvZxeKw6d YYIAoIYPZDSjXPTDux6VXX9cIbzRyHWF =ZZ96 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team Op vrijdag 1 april 2016 11:34:16 CEST schreef John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> :
On 04/01/2016 03:49 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops,
No. For laptops.
The type of machine does not matter a bit. If you have wifi, and there is even a vague possibility you might use it, then install network manager.
it handles cat 5 connections just fine. it handles wifi just fine. It offers the ability to set wifi off, and not use it. It retains wifi passwords and access points for you.
I have a machine like Dave's that has wifi, but on which I seldom use wifi (its a desktop computer). But occasionally the network is down and I turn on my Android Phone's wifi Hot Spot.
I also have some laptops that might use wifi when I travel, and even occasionally while not traveling.
They are all set up to use Network Manager and DHCP. Why? because it works even for fixed/wired machines. And it is very fast.
If I need a static IP on any device, I do a reservation in the dhcp server.
Side Rant:----------
Having a static that is not programmed into the dhcp server (in other words a usurped static IP) is just asking for problems, because when that machine is off, the dhcp server may lease out that iP, which makes for collisions which forces re-lease when that statically assigned machine comes back on line. And depending on which machine had its leased IP usurped, it can cause disruption all over the network.
Any modern router defines a range for the last octet. Have DHCP start at ###.###.###.100 and use the <100 for static IP addresses. DHCP danger gone.
Ive had database servers get knocked off line by some clown deciding that a static IP was the way to go, and he just grabbed one at random for his phone. So of course this disruption went on and off for days as his phone joined and parted the network.
Seen this nasty one too. In my case we were able to set a range of reserved IP addresses + MAC addresses. After doing so, other devices would not connect. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth wrote:
So since I've spent a lot of time watching Leap booting recently :( I noticed that there's a noticeable delay whilst it sits there waiting for wicked to do something*. I just had a look at a presentation about wicked and it appears to be designed to deal with network complexity, which I don't need. It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops, so I guess I selected something whilst installing.
I'm old school and I just want a simple wired connection to my switch, with DHCP from my router beyond that. The PC is capable of wi-fi but I want that disabled.
What's the best way to reconfigure my PC to have the simplest network configuration?
That is probably what you already have. Wicked does not add any complexity. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.6°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-04-01 12:29, Per Jessen wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
So since I've spent a lot of time watching Leap booting recently :( I noticed that there's a noticeable delay whilst it sits there waiting for wicked to do something*. I just had a look at a presentation about wicked and it appears to be designed to deal with network complexity, which I don't need. It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops, so I guess I selected something whilst installing.
I'm old school and I just want a simple wired connection to my switch, with DHCP from my router beyond that. The PC is capable of wi-fi but I want that disabled.
What's the best way to reconfigure my PC to have the simplest network configuration?
That is probably what you already have. Wicked does not add any complexity.
I don't see any reason why the system would be waiting for wicked at startup if it was doing just what I want? What is it doing? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth wrote:
On 2016-04-01 12:29, Per Jessen wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
So since I've spent a lot of time watching Leap booting recently :( I noticed that there's a noticeable delay whilst it sits there waiting for wicked to do something*. I just had a look at a presentation about wicked and it appears to be designed to deal with network complexity, which I don't need. It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops, so I guess I selected something whilst installing.
I'm old school and I just want a simple wired connection to my switch, with DHCP from my router beyond that. The PC is capable of wi-fi but I want that disabled.
What's the best way to reconfigure my PC to have the simplest network configuration?
That is probably what you already have. Wicked does not add any complexity.
I don't see any reason why the system would be waiting for wicked at startup if it was doing just what I want? What is it doing?
I think I have seen that wait too - 10-15 seconds? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-04-01 15:56, Per Jessen wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
On 2016-04-01 12:29, Per Jessen wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
So since I've spent a lot of time watching Leap booting recently :( I noticed that there's a noticeable delay whilst it sits there waiting for wicked to do something*. I just had a look at a presentation about wicked and it appears to be designed to deal with network complexity, which I don't need. It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops, so I guess I selected something whilst installing.
I'm old school and I just want a simple wired connection to my switch, with DHCP from my router beyond that. The PC is capable of wi-fi but I want that disabled.
What's the best way to reconfigure my PC to have the simplest network configuration?
That is probably what you already have. Wicked does not add any complexity.
I don't see any reason why the system would be waiting for wicked at startup if it was doing just what I want? What is it doing?
I think I have seen that wait too - 10-15 seconds?
The message indicates that it exits the wait at about 33 sec, but it doesn't appear until about 15 secs after openSUSE's boot messages start so effectively yes, that's the order of the wait. I'll try to investigate more later. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 06:16 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
I'm old school and I just want a simple wired connection to my switch, with DHCP from my router beyond that. The PC is capable of wi-fi but I want that disabled.
What's the best way to reconfigure my PC to have the simplest network configuration?
This is a home system? only a few components such as the PC, a printer? All PERMANENTLY connected, that is hard wired to the switch? There really is no reason to use DHCP in something that simple. You're NOT hotelling a laptop that is going to be connected to different sites. You're not dealing with a phone or tablet connecting via wifi, that also might connect, again by wifi, to different sites. The latter specifically don't need, can't have, permanently assigned IP addresses. The hard-wired, PERMANENTLY connected devices can. THAT is the simplest, and also the most robust, network configuration. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-04-01 16:02, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 06:16 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
I'm old school and I just want a simple wired connection to my switch, with DHCP from my router beyond that. The PC is capable of wi-fi but I want that disabled.
What's the best way to reconfigure my PC to have the simplest network configuration?
This is a home system? only a few components such as the PC, a printer? All PERMANENTLY connected, that is hard wired to the switch?
Yes, it's a home system. A few PCs and a printer and a couple of TV boxes and several phones and a couple of mobile computers, plus whatever visitors bring. Connected to several switches connected to the router.
There really is no reason to use DHCP in something that simple. You're NOT hotelling a laptop that is going to be connected to different sites. You're not dealing with a phone or tablet connecting via wifi, that also might connect, again by wifi, to different sites. The latter specifically don't need, can't have, permanently assigned IP addresses.
The hard-wired, PERMANENTLY connected devices can.
THAT is the simplest, and also the most robust, network configuration.
That's what I used to do, but maintaining the files on all the machines is tiresome. So once we switched to DHCP at work, I switched to it at home as well. Only one device to manage seems to work for me. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 11:12 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
Yes, it's a home system. A few PCs and a printer and a couple of TV boxes and several phones and a couple of mobile computers, plus whatever visitors bring. Connected to several switches connected to the router.
Sounds like my system, minus the TV.
There really is no reason to use DHCP in something that simple. You're NOT hotelling a laptop that is going to be connected to different sites. You're not dealing with a phone or tablet connecting via wifi, that also might connect, again by wifi, to different sites. The latter specifically don't need, can't have, permanently assigned IP addresses.
The hard-wired, PERMANENTLY connected devices can.
THAT is the simplest, and also the most robust, network configuration.
That's what I used to do, but maintaining the files on all the machines is tiresome. So once we switched to DHCP at work, I switched to it at home as well. Only one device to manage seems to work for me.
There's a misconception there. The real issue isn't the assignment of addresses, its the mapping of names to IP addresses, which is a DNS issue not a DHCP issue. You are not starved for IP addresses. handing out the mapping is what demands maintain the /etc/hosts files on each machine and yes it is tiresome. The whole point of DNS is to avoid that. Late model DNS integrates with DHCP, so the DHCP server issues a dynamic update to the late model DNS server. That's the setup at your work, in all probability. Its overkill for the home setup you and I have at home. I've experimented with it in the past, implemented it in a couple of different ways at client sites. If everything is static, or for the parts that are static, DHCP makes no sense. Hard wire the machine, hard wire the addresses and hard wire the entries in the DNS service. If you want to go off forum to do diagrams and config files of your mutual settups, that's fine, if you just want to discuss principles and generalities that are of general interest, lets stay on forum. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-04-01 16:34, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 11:12 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
Yes, it's a home system. A few PCs and a printer and a couple of TV boxes and several phones and a couple of mobile computers, plus whatever visitors bring. Connected to several switches connected to the router.
Sounds like my system, minus the TV.
There really is no reason to use DHCP in something that simple. You're NOT hotelling a laptop that is going to be connected to different sites. You're not dealing with a phone or tablet connecting via wifi, that also might connect, again by wifi, to different sites. The latter specifically don't need, can't have, permanently assigned IP addresses.
The hard-wired, PERMANENTLY connected devices can.
THAT is the simplest, and also the most robust, network configuration.
That's what I used to do, but maintaining the files on all the machines is tiresome. So once we switched to DHCP at work, I switched to it at home as well. Only one device to manage seems to work for me.
There's a misconception there. The real issue isn't the assignment of addresses, its the mapping of names to IP addresses, which is a DNS issue not a DHCP issue. You are not starved for IP addresses. handing out the mapping is what demands maintain the /etc/hosts files on each machine and yes it is tiresome. The whole point of DNS is to avoid that.
Late model DNS integrates with DHCP, so the DHCP server issues a dynamic update to the late model DNS server. That's the setup at your work, in all probability. Its overkill for the home setup you and I have at home. I've experimented with it in the past, implemented it in a couple of different ways at client sites. If everything is static, or for the parts that are static, DHCP makes no sense. Hard wire the machine, hard wire the addresses and hard wire the entries in the DNS service.
I confess I haven't looked into how it all works too closely. I set the hostname on each machine (for that machine, not for every machine) or use whatever the machine decides if it's vaguely sensible, and then somehow the router does the rest. I don't set up a DNS server. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 08:46 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
On 2016-04-01 16:34, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 11:12 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
Yes, it's a home system. A few PCs and a printer and a couple of TV boxes and several phones and a couple of mobile computers, plus whatever visitors bring. Connected to several switches connected to the router.
Sounds like my system, minus the TV.
There really is no reason to use DHCP in something that simple. You're NOT hotelling a laptop that is going to be connected to different sites. You're not dealing with a phone or tablet connecting via wifi, that also might connect, again by wifi, to different sites. The latter specifically don't need, can't have, permanently assigned IP addresses.
The hard-wired, PERMANENTLY connected devices can.
THAT is the simplest, and also the most robust, network configuration.
That's what I used to do, but maintaining the files on all the machines is tiresome. So once we switched to DHCP at work, I switched to it at home as well. Only one device to manage seems to work for me.
There's a misconception there. The real issue isn't the assignment of addresses, its the mapping of names to IP addresses, which is a DNS issue not a DHCP issue. You are not starved for IP addresses. handing out the mapping is what demands maintain the /etc/hosts files on each machine and yes it is tiresome. The whole point of DNS is to avoid that.
Late model DNS integrates with DHCP, so the DHCP server issues a dynamic update to the late model DNS server. That's the setup at your work, in all probability. Its overkill for the home setup you and I have at home. I've experimented with it in the past, implemented it in a couple of different ways at client sites. If everything is static, or for the parts that are static, DHCP makes no sense. Hard wire the machine, hard wire the addresses and hard wire the entries in the DNS service.
I confess I haven't looked into how it all works too closely. I set the hostname on each machine (for that machine, not for every machine) or use whatever the machine decides if it's vaguely sensible, and then somehow the router does the rest. I don't set up a DNS server. How come on a Windows system when it's set up for DHCP (wireless or wired) there is no delay, but with openSUSE wicked hangs on systemd startup? I have noticed this too; it says something like "A start job is running for wicked" and just hangs there...this should not happen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-04-01 16:49, sdm wrote:
How come on a Windows system when it's set up for DHCP (wireless or wired) there is no delay, but with openSUSE wicked hangs on systemd startup? I have noticed this too; it says something like "A start job is running for wicked" and just hangs there...this should not happen
Yes, that's the one, and my question. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
sdm wrote:
How come on a Windows system when it's set up for DHCP (wireless or wired) there is no delay, but with openSUSE wicked hangs on systemd startup? I have noticed this too; it says something like "A start job is running for wicked" and just hangs there...this should not happen
That's true. I don't know if it's DHCP related though. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.6°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 08:46 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
On 2016-04-01 16:34, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 11:12 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
Yes, it's a home system. A few PCs and a printer and a couple of TV boxes and several phones and a couple of mobile computers, plus whatever visitors bring. Connected to several switches connected to the router.
Sounds like my system, minus the TV.
There really is no reason to use DHCP in something that simple. You're NOT hotelling a laptop that is going to be connected to different sites. You're not dealing with a phone or tablet connecting via wifi, that also might connect, again by wifi, to different sites. The latter specifically don't need, can't have, permanently assigned IP addresses.
The hard-wired, PERMANENTLY connected devices can.
THAT is the simplest, and also the most robust, network configuration.
That's what I used to do, but maintaining the files on all the machines is tiresome. So once we switched to DHCP at work, I switched to it at home as well. Only one device to manage seems to work for me.
There's a misconception there. The real issue isn't the assignment of addresses, its the mapping of names to IP addresses, which is a DNS issue not a DHCP issue. You are not starved for IP addresses. handing out the mapping is what demands maintain the /etc/hosts files on each machine and yes it is tiresome. The whole point of DNS is to avoid that.
Late model DNS integrates with DHCP, so the DHCP server issues a dynamic update to the late model DNS server. That's the setup at your work, in all probability. Its overkill for the home setup you and I have at home. I've experimented with it in the past, implemented it in a couple of different ways at client sites. If everything is static, or for the parts that are static, DHCP makes no sense. Hard wire the machine, hard wire the addresses and hard wire the entries in the DNS service.
I confess I haven't looked into how it all works too closely. I set the hostname on each machine (for that machine, not for every machine) or use whatever the machine decides if it's vaguely sensible, and then somehow the router does the rest. I don't set up a DNS server. One thing that is worth mention, is that wicked is more for servers with static IP setups in my opinion, so maybe a more fair comparison would be comparing NetworkManager to Windows network manager, whatever internal name that has. However, the delay for obtaining a DHCP address on boot with wicked is abnormally long, when with Windows or NetworkManager under Linux is gets the DHCP information rapidly -- from the same exact router. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 06:16 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
I'm old school and I just want a simple wired connection to my switch, with DHCP from my router beyond that. The PC is capable of wi-fi but I want that disabled.
What's the best way to reconfigure my PC to have the simplest network configuration?
This is a home system? only a few components such as the PC, a printer? All PERMANENTLY connected, that is hard wired to the switch?
There really is no reason to use DHCP in something that simple.
Sure there is - visitors for instance. Besides, DHCP is much easier than manually configuring every device. IMO. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.6°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 11:47 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 06:16 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
I'm old school and I just want a simple wired connection to my switch, with DHCP from my router beyond that. The PC is capable of wi-fi but I want that disabled.
What's the best way to reconfigure my PC to have the simplest network configuration?
This is a home system? only a few components such as the PC, a printer? All PERMANENTLY connected, that is hard wired to the switch?
There really is no reason to use DHCP in something that simple.
Sure there is - visitors for instance. Besides, DHCP is much easier than manually configuring every device. IMO.
Per, I was talking about the PERMANENTLY HARD-WIRED devices and I maintain my assertion. You are talking about visitors. Visitors are NOT, repeat NOT *permanently* *hard-wired*. Whether the visitor comes in as a phone/tablet/laptop with wifi talking tro the wifi router that hangs off the main LAN and has the port on the LAN with a permanent address so that it can be config'd using a browsed on the PC on the main LAN) or plugs into a socket somewhere that is configured for DHCP doesn't matter. That's certainly how I have my system set up to deal with visitors. But the PERMANENTLY HARD-WIRED and 'resident' devices, my PC, the database server under my desk, the printer, the Linksys ATA for my phones see browser mode admin above), my wifi router (see browser mode above) all have static WAN addresses. Visitors wither use the wifi, which hands out DHCP addresses, or plug into the DHCP managed port (see above) if they want a wired connection. Sometime I do that with a temporary machine I'm testing. There is no contradiction; I'm not missing anything out. Read my lips: PERMANENTLY HARD-WIRED devices use static addresses, phones/tablets/laptops using wifi and visitors get DHCP. Oh, and I use DNSmasq. Guess why? As the man page says, it "also answers DNS queries for DHCP configured hosts". -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 11:47 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 06:16 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
I'm old school and I just want a simple wired connection to my switch, with DHCP from my router beyond that. The PC is capable of wi-fi but I want that disabled.
What's the best way to reconfigure my PC to have the simplest network configuration?
This is a home system? only a few components such as the PC, a printer? All PERMANENTLY connected, that is hard wired to the switch?
There really is no reason to use DHCP in something that simple.
Sure there is - visitors for instance. Besides, DHCP is much easier than manually configuring every device. IMO.
Per, I was talking about the PERMANENTLY HARD-WIRED devices and I maintain my assertion.
You are talking about visitors. Visitors are NOT, repeat NOT *permanently* *hard-wired*.
Okay.
Whether the visitor comes in as a phone/tablet/laptop with wifi talking tro the wifi router that hangs off the main LAN and has the port on the LAN with a permanent address so that it can be config'd using a browsed on the PC on the main LAN) or plugs into a socket somewhere that is configured for DHCP doesn't matter.
That's certainly how I have my system set up to deal with visitors.
But the PERMANENTLY HARD-WIRED and 'resident' devices, my PC, the database server under my desk, the printer, the Linksys ATA for my phones see browser mode admin above), my wifi router (see browser mode above) all have static WAN addresses.
Why bother? when you've got DHCP running anyway, it's easier to let it hand out the fixed addresses too, IMHO. It's a standard one-liner in dhcpd.conf as opposed to fiddling with various interfaces on different devices.
Oh, and I use DNSmasq. Guess why? As the man page says, it "also answers DNS queries for DHCP configured hosts".
Sure, that's what a DNS is for. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.9°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 01:12 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Why bother? when you've got DHCP running anyway, it's easier to let it hand out the fixed addresses too, IMHO. It's a standard one-liner in dhcpd.conf as opposed to fiddling with various interfaces on different devices.
While your latter statement is true your former statement is not. I do NOT have DHCP running. KISS. The DHCP services are done in the Linksys wifi router and are entirely internal to that router. They do not magically feed out the "WAN" port on the main LAN. I do not have any config files for DHCP set up. Becuase i'm not running a DHCP server. KISS. For the sake of completeness in this reply, I will acknowledge that dnsmasq *CAN* also do DHCP, but remember that the PC is running on a switch and would have to listening to some broadcast stuff that the switch might or might not pass to the PC from anything on the switch but wouldn't be coming from anything plugged into the wifi or ATA routers (see above). That's more setup. KISS. I have dnsmasq running, Just that. KISS. No config file, set up, no details of anything on the command line. The simplest possible setting. Its there to do DNS. Nothing more. KISS. Its simpler that setting up a full blown DNS Server. BTDT, too fiddly. KISS. As for "fiddling" with the interfaces on the wifi and the ATA routers, no I didn't do that beyond setting up the WAN port and setting up the TUN address of my VOIP service and setting the wifi password. KISS again; the DHCP stuff on each is there by default. I haven't altered anything to do with DHCP. I didn't need to. And yes I have done DHCP servers as you suggest. I'd done that at home to try it out. I have the config archived if I ever need to go back to those headaches. I've set it up many times in a corporate setting and integrated it with a 'classical' DNS service. Complete with cryptographic key :-) or rather "-( 'cos its all a pain in the ass if its not actually needed and in a home setting and SMB where little changes, its a complexity that's not needed. That's why I don't bother. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 01:12 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Why bother? when you've got DHCP running anyway, it's easier to let it hand out the fixed addresses too, IMHO. It's a standard one-liner in dhcpd.conf as opposed to fiddling with various interfaces on different devices.
While your latter statement is true your former statement is not.
I do NOT have DHCP running. KISS.
The DHCP services are done in the Linksys wifi router and are entirely internal to that router. They do not magically feed out the "WAN" port on the main LAN. I do not have any config files for DHCP set up. Becuase i'm not running a DHCP server. KISS.
For the sake of completeness in this reply, I will acknowledge that dnsmasq *CAN* also do DHCP, but remember that the PC is running on a switch and would have to listening to some broadcast stuff that the switch might or might not pass to the PC from anything on the switch but wouldn't be coming from anything plugged into the wifi or ATA routers (see above). That's more setup. KISS.
I have dnsmasq running, Just that. KISS. No config file, set up, no details of anything on the command line. The simplest possible setting. Its there to do DNS. Nothing more. KISS. Its simpler that setting up a full blown DNS Server. BTDT, too fiddly. KISS.
As for "fiddling" with the interfaces on the wifi and the ATA routers, no I didn't do that beyond setting up the WAN port and setting up the TUN address of my VOIP service and setting the wifi password. KISS again; the DHCP stuff on each is there by default.
I thought you said "the PERMANENTLY HARD-WIRED and 'resident' devices, my PC, the database server under my desk, the printer, the Linksys ATA for my phones all have static WAN addresses."
And yes I have done DHCP servers as you suggest. I'd done that at home to try it out. I have the config archived if I ever need to go back to those headaches. I've set it up many times in a corporate setting and integrated it with a 'classical' DNS service. Complete with cryptographic key :-) or rather "-( 'cos its all a pain in the ass if its not actually needed and in a home setting and SMB where little changes, its a complexity that's not needed.
That's why I don't bother.
Oddly, with your predilection for KISS, you seem to have neglected the principle in all of the above :-) Personally, I find running DHCP matches KISS exceptionally well. Except for the router/firewall, all of my internal systems and devices use DHCP, as they all do by default. No per-device setup required. Known devices don't change all hat often and have their line in dhcpd.conf for years. The main 40 lines of that file never change. I fail to spot any headaches and complexities. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.8°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 12:01 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Personally, I find running DHCP matches KISS exceptionally well. Except for the router/firewall, all of my internal systems and devices use DHCP, as they all do by default. No per-device setup required. Known devices don't change all hat often and have their line in dhcpd.conf for years. The main 40 lines of that file never change. I fail to spot any headaches and complexities.
Pretty much my experience as well. Everything you buy will default to dhcp these days, so why would I want to remember the special sauce to statically set an IP on some random printer, phone, tablet, or virtual machine? The three things that HAVE to have a static IP, I configure via dhcp reservations in the dhcp server, and this works the same whether you use Linux for a dhcp server or some random wifi router or your cable modem or what-ever. ----- I configured a backup DHCP server on my Rasberry PI, that I can turn on when I do maintenance on my main server. Its also a backup Cups server. And amazingly, it works rather well for both of those functions. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 04:02 PM, John Andersen wrote:
Everything you buy will default to dhcp these days, so why would I want to remember the special sauce to statically set an IP on some random printer, phone, tablet, or virtual machine?
What 'special sauce'? So long as I have an address for the WAN port of those, its just an entry in the browser. Just like using Yast on the host. It looks like you have your idea about simple and I have mine. But I still think DaveH would be well served by trying to use static addresses for his hardwired device to see if wicked is or can be made redundant (and cut out of the initialization sequence) -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 04:02 PM, John Andersen wrote:
Everything you buy will default to dhcp these days, so why would I want to remember the special sauce to statically set an IP on some random printer, phone, tablet, or virtual machine?
What 'special sauce'?
Usually every distinct device has it's own distinct set of network configuration menus. I know my Kyocera printer is different to my Linksys a/d box and to my Zotac box. That is I suspect the "special sauce".
So long as I have an address for the WAN port of those, its just an entry in the browser.
Huh? That does not sound like statically configured network addresses, if anything it sounds like DHCP with MAC-specific assignments.
Just like using Yast on the host.
It looks like you have your idea about simple and I have mine.
I think perhaps you have statically and DHCP assigned addresses confused? I know it's unlikely, but that's what it sounds like. /Per -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 02:22 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Anton Aylward wrote:
So long as I have an address for the WAN port of those, its just an entry in the browser.
Huh? That does not sound like statically configured network addresses, if anything it sounds like DHCP with MAC-specific assignments.
Just like using Yast on the host.
It looks like you have your idea about simple and I have mine. I think perhaps you have statically and DHCP assigned addresses confused? I know it's unlikely, but that's what it sounds like.
Glad someone besides me caught that, because Anton can be a bit long winded, the weather here in Western Washington is far too nice to spend arguing on the net. I've done it his way, and getting access to a device with no DHCP, or once you turn off DHCP is very difficult, and usually involves stringing a separate cable because it came out of the box looking for dhcp, and without a dhcp server you cant even get at it over your existing network. Bad enough when there was a manual push button interface to muddle through with for a one time setup, but most devices don't even have that any more, so all you got as a device on the wrong subnet or one looking for dhcp where none exists. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 05:51 PM, John Andersen wrote:
I've done it his way, and getting access to a device with no DHCP, or once you turn off DHCP is very difficult, and usually involves stringing a separate cable because it came out of the box looking for dhcp, and without a dhcp server you cant even get at it over your existing network.
I think you made a very simple set-up complex. I had none of that problem. I plugged it in to a PC and started a GUI/browser and there it was, just like in the pretty pictures in the manual that came with it. Those instructions were designed for non technical people. You're hypothesising about something quite different. As I say, I've turned off dhcp and all it takes to get to the GUI is firefox voip:8080 or firefox wifi:8080 since the static addresses are in /etc/hosts How did I get the original address? No 'stringing cables'. Just run, in my case, nmap, because my LAN is using non standard base addresses. "Out of the box" wants a .1 network, I've learnt. I work from the top down not from the bottom up; my WAN is .254. All that being said, the manuals assume you are hanging the wifi router of your DLS line, not off the shared LAN switch as I do, so accommodations have to be made. Perhaps that's how your 'string cables' came into it. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 05:22 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
I think perhaps you have statically and DHCP assigned addresses confused? I know it's unlikely, but that's what it sounds like.
No I don't. I go into the GUI to set the wifi password on the password router. Nothing to do with DHCP or static. I go into the GUI on the ATA to set the address & login of my (remote) VOIP server. Again, nothing to do with DHCP or static. Its you who is confusing this functionality with the DHCP/static issue. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 05:22 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
I think perhaps you have statically and DHCP assigned addresses confused? I know it's unlikely, but that's what it sounds like.
No I don't.
I go into the GUI to set the wifi password on the password router. Nothing to do with DHCP or static.
Right, so irrelevant in this context.
I go into the GUI on the ATA to set the address & login of my (remote) VOIP server. Again, nothing to do with DHCP or static.
Well, why are you bringing this up in a context of DHCP vs. static addressing??
Its you who is confusing this functionality with the DHCP/static issue.
Honestly, I think not. I have no idea what you're talking about above, but as you say, it's not about DHCP vs. static addressing. Static address assignment happens per device, usually in a device-specific manner/dialogue. For instance, on an openSUSE system, one may use vi to edit /etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-eth0 and set BOOTPROTO='static' IPADDR='fi.xa.dd.re/ss' YaST is a good alternative, of course. On one of my ethernet switches, static addressing may be set via the serial port, telnet or a web-interface, all very specific to the switch. On my Linksys phone on my office desk, static addressing may be set by using the keys to navigate the menu-system. (alternatively via provisioning over tftp). On an HP server ILO card, one may set a static address on boot-up (press F8 to access the ILO) or using HP supplied run-time utilities. DHCP addressing happens with the DHCP protocol only. One may assign addresses from a pool or assign per-device fixed addresses based on the MAC-address. Depending on one's DHCP server, this is done via an interface or in my case with vi. As most devices come configured for DHCP by default, using DHCP is - in my opinion - much easier that having to configure each device individually with a per-device magic incantation. Regardless of whether you assign a fixed address or a pool address. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.0°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
I'm changing subject line 'cos this isn't about Dave's problem with 'wicked' any more; its not even about DHCP vs static. On 04/02/2016 07:02 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Honestly, I think not. I have no idea what you're talking about above, but as you say, it's not about DHCP vs. static addressing.
You brought up configuring and vi. I responded with GUI. Not all devices have any or all of pushbuttons, tftp load of config, serial port. Some, idiotically in my opinion, have a management port and need a vendor propitiatory management tool using a proprietary protocol. I choose not to use those. I hope you concur. I brought up GUI because all the consumer devices I've used and seen and and encountered with friends and relatives, as well as the professional gear I've used have "http" GUI interfaces. Some of those, all of the professional, have the ability to save config to a file and reload, but I've only seen reload managed from the GUI, not forced down their throat with some other mechanism. I like the idea of having devices 'once configured, stay configured" and not get altered because some stray hacker set up a rogue tftp server that the device found on reboot, because it was not explicitly configured to do otherwise. I like setups where small oversight class mistakes aren't critical :-) -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
I'm changing subject line 'cos this isn't about Dave's problem with 'wicked' any more; its not even about DHCP vs static.
On 04/02/2016 07:02 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Honestly, I think not. I have no idea what you're talking about above, but as you say, it's not about DHCP vs. static addressing.
You brought up configuring and vi. I responded with GUI.
I'm sure you must have missed something in between, but the essence of it all is - GUIs vary, vi doesn't. If one find's it easier to deal with varying GUIs instead of just editing one line of text using one's favourite editor, well, then I give up.
Not all devices have any or all of pushbuttons, tftp load of config, serial port. Some, idiotically in my opinion, have a management port and need a vendor propitiatory management tool using a proprietary protocol. I choose not to use those. I hope you concur.
I don't always have a choice. I have only just a couple of weeks ago had to solder up a separate console cable (RS323->RJ45) for Alcatel switches. Yes, I also don't like these, but at least it was only the cable that was awkward.
I brought up GUI because all the consumer devices I've used and seen and and encountered with friends and relatives, as well as the professional gear I've used have "http" GUI interfaces.
Yep, the built-in web interface has become pretty much the standard. I don't know how long you'd have to go back to find a consumer device with configuration over telnet only.
I like the idea of having devices 'once configured, stay configured" and not get altered because some stray hacker set up a rogue tftp server that the device found on reboot,
The server does not "find" the tftp server, it is specified in the DHCP options. If your stray hacker has gained access to your name server, all bets are off. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.8°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/02/2016 01:41 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
'm sure you must have missed something in between, but the essence of it all is - GUIs vary, vi doesn't. If one find's it easier to deal with varying GUIs instead of just editing one line of text using one's favourite editor, well, then I give up.
You're making a few assumptions there. Yes, people like Thee and Mee and most denizens of this list are sufficiently experienced to handle VI. Most people who buy these devices at BestBuy (or the national equivalent elsewhere) are not; they are probably MS-Windows users and they are quite used to setting things up via GUI screen. After all, put just a 'point and click' and fill in the form GUI. The second assumption is that the device is one that CAN be managed by having a file that is tftp'd at startup. None of the consumer (mostly with the D-link or LinkSys label) grade stuff I have or have worked on for my friends and neighbours have that. I should add that even at the various client sites, from SMB to national banks, the IT staff seem to prefer GUI; perhaps that's, again, the influence of Windows. And yes I'm old enough to remember when just about everything, and that included any terminals that were more than absolutely "dumb as two rocks", needed a tftp'd file, often binary, to start. I'm not sorry those days are past. That GUIs vary is beside the point; they are forms with labels and buttons. Even children can handle that. A friend who teaches IT courses for <<a firm that has tall plants in its name>> aimed at IT people who want to 'upgrade' their skills runs one for VI. He says its the worst course he has since most people who take it have a real problem with VI. Perhaps learning other things first gets in the way. Oh and BTW: VI, or at least VIM, the Linux implementation, does vary; its very very programmable and varies according to the type of file you're editing. Even the basic -jkl- keys can be altered. The problem with this thread is that its dealing with a lot of IF-BUT-MAYBE situations. We're both guilty of making generalizations that the other can, if not refute, then make a good counter case about. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2016-04-02 at 16:35 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/02/2016 01:41 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
'm sure you must have missed something in between, but the essence of it all is - GUIs vary, vi doesn't. If one find's it easier to deal with varying GUIs instead of just editing one line of text using one's favourite editor, well, then I give up.
You're making a few assumptions there.
Yes, people like Thee and Mee and most denizens of this list are sufficiently experienced to handle VI.
Those that don't are experienced enough to use any other editor - say, gedit, write, joe, mcedit... maybe notepad, perhaps not.
Most people who buy these devices at BestBuy (or the national equivalent elsewhere) are not; they are probably MS-Windows users and they are quite used to setting things up via GUI screen.
Then you are confused: Per is not talking about using VI on those devices you buy, like a printer, but that he has a dedicated Linux machine of some sort which is running a dhcp daemon which he configures with vi. A unique file for all the machines in his network. For the rest of us that are using a router provided by the ISP, we do the same via the web page configuration of the ISP router. A GUI configuration. Those doing that only have to configure IPs on a single place, instead of having to find out how to, then do it, configure each device separately, instead of leaving them on auto. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlcA+gUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VRIgCdHZLTOfTrKzq9NPVSQCzCZZCr pOEAn1vqM4Cry4h/9dIGqvDaX22KFczw =+Vat -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/03/2016 07:09 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Yes, people like Thee and Mee and most denizens of this list are sufficiently experienced to handle VI.
Those that don't are experienced enough to use any other editor - say, gedit, write, joe, mcedit... maybe notepad, perhaps not.
I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse here but you're missing the point, which is "EXPERIENCED". The specific editor isn't the point, being experienced is. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/03/2016 07:09 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Then you are confused: Per is not talking about using VI on those devices you buy, like a printer, but that he has a dedicated Linux machine of some sort which is running a dhcp daemon which he configures with vi. A unique file for all the machines in his network.
I got the impression he was talking about the configuration being loaded by some means - tftp perhaps - from a file that was hand edited, be it by vi or some other editor, by someone experienced in the art of such matters. Again a unique file for the machine. I wasn't talking about "using vi on the device" itself. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2016-04-02 at 16:35 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/02/2016 01:41 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
'm sure you must have missed something in between, but the essence of it all is - GUIs vary, vi doesn't. If one find's it easier to deal with varying GUIs instead of just editing one line of text using one's favourite editor, well, then I give up.
You're making a few assumptions there.
Yes, people like Thee and Mee and most denizens of this list are sufficiently experienced to handle VI.
Those that don't are experienced enough to use any other editor - say, gedit, write, joe, mcedit... maybe notepad, perhaps not.
Most people who buy these devices at BestBuy (or the national equivalent elsewhere) are not; they are probably MS-Windows users and they are quite used to setting things up via GUI screen.
Then you are confused: Per is not talking about using VI on those devices you buy, like a printer, but that he has a dedicated Linux machine of some sort which is running a dhcp daemon which he configures with vi. A unique file for all the machines in his network.
Exactly. Thank you, Carlos. I'm sure I even mentioned it - it's called /etc/dhcpd.conf, and I also showed the line that needs copying to fix an address for a new device.
For the rest of us that are using a router provided by the ISP, we do the same via the web page configuration of the ISP router. A GUI configuration.
Right, and only one GUI. A very valid setup too. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (20.8°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Per Jessen schreef op 03-04-16 15:54:
Exactly. Thank you, Carlos. I'm sure I even mentioned it - it's called /etc/dhcpd.conf, and I also showed the line that needs copying to fix an address for a new device.
On this topic. I just configured dnsmasq on my NAS. Any fixed IP needs a line in dnsmasq.conf and all hosts that use DHCP get their supplied hostname taken up in the DNS list so all hosts resolve to hostname.localnet. It would be most pleasant with a GUI but that is for a large part also because this NAS often hides everything in deep directories. Should be a default feature on this NAS really. Only issue is you have to turn the DHCP on your router off, and now my NAS is the DNS provider but it doesn't forward to the ISP DNS, it uses the router as a stepping stone still. So now there is one extra hop in between. Still it works perfectly. The only issue is I wouldn't know how to extend it to some other interface or whatever. I have a VPN running as well so there is more hosts I can access. However, I can just statically fix them in /etc/hosts. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/03/2016 10:10 AM, Xen wrote:
Any fixed IP needs a line in dnsmasq.conf
Um, why? Why don't you do what the rest of the world does, has done for decades, and put the fixed addresses in /etc/hosts? Dnsmaq reads that file and honours it unless you explicitly tell it not to. As in # If you don't want dnsmasq to read /etc/hosts, uncomment the # following line. #no-hosts # or if you want it to read another file, as well as /etc/hosts, use # this. #addn-hosts=/etc/banner_add_hosts -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Haven't followed this entire thread, but just want to say.... thank you Anton. Anton Aylward schreef op 02-04-16 22:35:
I should add that even at the various client sites, from SMB to national banks, the IT staff seem to prefer GUI; perhaps that's, again, the influence of Windows.
You know, the implication of that statement must probably be that such influence would be a bad thing. At the same time you can see it as a good thing as well, it's just an influence. Maybe you should see it as "Now that I have experienced this (GUI) thing, I don't want the other thing anymore". When I'm at a terminal screen some people who see me work will incredulously state "Why are you using DOS?". There are people that are old enough to remember MS-DOS, but non-IT people will obviously never have experienced any type of Linux. Or Unix. And these people generally hated MS-DOS too...... People just can't fathom you'd even want to use a console screen. Some of these people think what I do is pretty cool, some 'blonde' nurse saw something on television and then she thought "Hey, that's what Bart does too!". She felt really happy knowing a person who had some tricks up his sleeve, and it made her feel she knew something about it too. Another nurse, slightly older but slightly less blonde (actually their hair was equally blonde lol) thought I was pretty cool too being that "programmer". She didn't really respect the thing itself but at the same time saw me as "a guy who provides" in that sense. In that sense she respected me, she didn't want to know about it, but still was happy knowing me, in that sense. It is true that many will have a preconception about not being able to understand something. This annoys me because they give up before even trying, when I know they could learn or could understand if only they spent a little bit of attention on it. These people (mostly girls) will instantly walk away because they /think/ they are too dumb to understand something. So that pretty much precludes you ever explaining anything to them, while that could very well be a fun thing. I witness a lot of people who think they are too stupid to understand when it is not true, it's just that no one has ever explained it to them, but by their actions they ensure that no one ever will. For me, teaching or explaining something is one of the best things to do with a girl :p. My work also improves when I have a girl to listen to me. Just the way it works. Anything I can explain, I can understand better myself. (Often used my mother for this lol). When I have a choice to make, I prefer to talk about it (to a woman) lol. Anyway, that is beside the point a bit. Nevertheless no one really wants to remember commands. Psychologists know that "recognition" is much easier than "remembering". A GUI depends almost solely on recognition. A CLI depends in large part on remembering. You can see easily which will be easier to use. I mean one important skill in Linux is to quickly discern what the CLI parameters should be. That involves either reading the man page or the --help. I forget stuff all the time. I forget how to write a crypttab. I make small errors by using an analogous word. It is terribly annoying that you have to constantly have to keep relearning some command line syntax, particularly when it is not very intuitive to you. Adept Vim usage also basically requires taking notes and keeping notes about it. I tell the Vim people that even their help system requires learning how to use. They call me stupid.
That GUIs vary is beside the point; they are forms with labels and buttons. Even children can handle that. A friend who teaches IT courses for <<a firm that has tall plants in its name>> aimed at IT people who want to 'upgrade' their skills runs one for VI. He says its the worst course he has since most people who take it have a real problem with VI. Perhaps learning other things first gets in the way.
Vim is just not intuitive. I mean, thank you for sharing this real world data. It's what I see too. The only reason I can use Vim is because of muscle memory. I don't consciously know what buttons to press.
Oh and BTW: VI, or at least VIM, the Linux implementation, does vary; its very very programmable and varies according to the type of file you're editing. Even the basic -jkl- keys can be altered.
The most annoying part is distributions (Ubuntu, dunno what else) not installing it by default. And you always forget that. [[[[[[ I mean Vim, not Vi ]]]]]] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/03/2016 08:08 AM, Xen wrote:
Anton Aylward schreef op 02-04-16 22:35:
I should add that even at the various client sites, from SMB to national banks, the IT staff seem to prefer GUI; perhaps that's, again, the influence of Windows.
You know, the implication of that statement must probably be that such influence would be a bad thing.
At the same time you can see it as a good thing as well, it's just an influence.
Maybe you should see it as "Now that I have experienced this (GUI) thing, I don't want the other thing anymore".
I see it as an issue of "cognitive load". The whole GUI thing is there that you don't need to be an uber-specialist in networking to set up the router, the wifi, the ATA.
A GUI depends almost solely on recognition. A CLI depends in large part on remembering.
You can see easily which will be easier to use.
While a valid point, its more that just that, the GUI may embody many commands, do checks to make sure the input is sensible and consistent. A CLI may be a series of commands that need the same string as a parameter for a number of them and typing it over and over risks error.
I forget stuff all the time.
You'll do more of that as you get older. If you get married you have to remember anniversaries and birthdays. All easily forgettable.
The only reason I can use Vim is because of muscle memory.
Its quickly acquired and doesn't require taking the hands off the keyboard (such as for using the mouse), it was probably designed for that and met favour with the touch typists. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward schreef op 03-04-16 15:43:
On 04/03/2016 08:08 AM, Xen wrote:
Maybe you should see it as "Now that I have experienced this (GUI) thing, I don't want the other thing anymore".
I see it as an issue of "cognitive load". The whole GUI thing is there that you don't need to be an uber-specialist in networking to set up the router, the wifi, the ATA.
Yes, of course. To me that seems so obvious you might wonder why anyone needed to mention it to anyone. Or would need to mention it. I mean.
A GUI depends almost solely on recognition. A CLI depends in large part on remembering.
You can see easily which will be easier to use.
While a valid point, its more that just that, the GUI may embody many commands, do checks to make sure the input is sensible and consistent. A CLI may be a series of commands that need the same string as a parameter for a number of them and typing it over and over risks error.
Of course. Don't forget the time saved.
I forget stuff all the time.
You'll do more of that as you get older. If you get married you have to remember anniversaries and birthdays. All easily forgettable.
Don't worry about that. I only remember the birth date of pretty nurses. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/02/2016 01:41 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
'm sure you must have missed something in between, but the essence of it all is - GUIs vary, vi doesn't. If one find's it easier to deal with varying GUIs instead of just editing one line of text using one's favourite editor, well, then I give up.
You're making a few assumptions there.
Yes, people like Thee and Mee and most denizens of this list are sufficiently experienced to handle VI. Most people who buy these devices at BestBuy (or the national equivalent elsewhere) are not; they are probably MS-Windows users and they are quite used to setting things up via GUI screen.
It's funny, that is exactly why manufacturers default to using DHCP.
The second assumption is that the device is one that CAN be managed by having a file that is tftp'd at startup.
No, I am definitely not assuming that. I am assuming that the device defaults to DHCP, that's all. Being able download a config file via tftp requires a bit more IT infrastructure than most households have.
I should add that even at the various client sites, from SMB to national banks, the IT staff seem to prefer GUI; perhaps that's, again, the influence of Windows.
IT staff that is not a little bit familiar with vi .... not sure if they really qualify as "IT staff" :-)
That GUIs vary is beside the point; they are forms with labels and buttons. Even children can handle that.
Anton, that GUIs vary is _exactly_ the point, if you disagree, we have to stop. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (20.8°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Per Jessen schreef op 03-04-16 15:44:
It's funny, that is exactly why manufacturers default to using DHCP.
Per, I am not sure what argument you are trying to make, but as in the other thread (of me) it doesn't follow. You seem to imply that DHCP being easier is an argument against GUI. No, it just means that as GUI is easier than that other thing, auto-config is even easier than that. They are just degees of ease. Something being easier than GUI doesn't take away from GUI being easier than tex-file-editing. On average. In the common scenario.
I should add that even at the various client sites, from SMB to national banks, the IT staff seem to prefer GUI; perhaps that's, again, the influence of Windows. IT staff that is not a little bit familiar with vi .... not sure if they really qualify as "IT staff" :-)
"They are not /REAL/ Meat Loaf fans." "They don't know every song by heart while playing ping pong and having their wife yell at them." Serious!
That GUIs vary is beside the point; they are forms with labels and buttons. Even children can handle that. Anton, that GUIs vary is _exactly_ the point, if you disagree, we have to stop.
Most GUIs vary by so little it is irrelevant. If you have seen one router control panel, you will mostly have seen them all. Next time try to quantify your statements. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Xen wrote:
Per Jessen schreef op 03-04-16 15:44:
It's funny, that is exactly why manufacturers default to using DHCP.
Per, I am not sure what argument you are trying to make, but as in the other thread (of me) it doesn't follow.
You seem to imply that DHCP being easier is an argument against GUI.
That's a misunderstanding. Perhaps you need to re-read the thread. It's basically about which of DHCP and static adress assignment is the easiest. I read "easiest" to mean "requires the least effort". There's no argument against GUIs, I like GUIs. I'm using one right now.
That GUIs vary is beside the point; they are forms with labels and buttons. Even children can handle that. Anton, that GUIs vary is _exactly_ the point, if you disagree, we have to stop.
Most GUIs vary by so little it is irrelevant.
Xen, when you have re-read the thread, you will no doubt have noticed my previous posting about different interfaces for assigning static address and routes vary quite a lot. https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2016-04/msg00086.html
If you have seen one router control panel, you will mostly have seen them all.
Yes, but nobody except you is talking about router control panels. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (20.6°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2016-04-01 at 12:23 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/01/2016 11:47 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Per, I was talking about the PERMANENTLY HARD-WIRED devices and I maintain my assertion.
Yes, we too. It is easier to have all the machines on automatic, and do the configuration only at a single dhcp server. All simple routers supplied by ISP contain one. You only have to tell it to allways assign the same IP to a certain machine identified by its MAC. It is a single point configuration, which is easier. If it is Linux, a single file for no matter how many machines, all with virtually fixed addresses. And if it is dnsmasq, you configure both names and ips in the same place, consistently. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlb+ub0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UCqQCeKTQMkSbqAPeFcHC/9sJrXUpE SSUAn2G9BAAcoOGn7o5nmiAO35NoViNE =wJXP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 02:11 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
And if it is dnsmasq, you configure both names and ips in the same place, consistently.
Yes, it reads the /etc/hosts file, which you'd have anyway. No other config file. Nothing cute on the command line. Sorry, while everything you say about running DHCP is correct it requires that you set up that config file binding certain MAC addresses to certain reserved IP addresses to maintain that relationship, the available pool vs the static pool. That's not done by magic. I think that using YASt or a similar form is quicker, easier. Yast also takes care of the /etc/hosts file for dnsmasq. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
Sorry, while everything you say about running DHCP is correct it requires that you set up that config file binding certain MAC addresses to certain reserved IP addresses to maintain that relationship, the available pool vs the static pool. That's not done by magic.
In my case, with vi. /Per -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/01/2016 05:14 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Anton Aylward wrote:
Sorry, while everything you say about running DHCP is correct it requires that you set up that config file binding certain MAC addresses to certain reserved IP addresses to maintain that relationship, the available pool vs the static pool. That's not done by magic.
In my case, with vi.
... and a great deal of specific knowledge of the config file and consistency constraints. People like You, John, Carlos and myself have that; now na naieve non-tech users don't. That's what I mean about LISS and dnsmasq 'just working' when you plug it all in. The pretty picture manual that comes with the LinkSys is all fill in the form GUI with a browser, a level of technology that is way, way below using vi on config files. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth composed on 2016-04-01 11:16 (UTC+0100):
So since I've spent a lot of time watching Leap booting recently :( I noticed that there's a noticeable delay whilst it sits there waiting for wicked to do something*. I just had a look at a presentation about
I often see Wicked sit there long enough to notice, but not long enough to make init noticeably slow, probably because DHCP isn't required on the overwhelming majority of my installations.
wicked and it appears to be designed to deal with network complexity, which I don't need. It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops, so I guess I selected something whilst installing.
I'm old school and I just want a simple wired connection to my switch, with DHCP from my router beyond that. The PC is capable of wi-fi but I want that disabled.
What's the best way to reconfigure my PC to have the simplest network configuration?
Everything here is fixed IP and wired. Maybe not pure KISS, but KISS enough for me, and a bit less radiation poking at my body.
* I'm not at home, which is why I'm not explicit about the message. Hopefully it's not necessary to know what the message was to answer my question, but if it is then please let me know and I'll post it later.
Do you have more than one machine on your LAN using the openSUSE default hostname? I've seen various bugs in the tracker that are either problems with the hostname command on which various scripts depend, or with the content of /etc/hostname itself. See e.g.: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=960255 https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=872264 -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth schrieb:
So since I've spent a lot of time watching Leap booting recently :( I noticed that there's a noticeable delay whilst it sits there waiting for wicked to do something*. I just had a look at a presentation about wicked and it appears to be designed to deal with network complexity, which I don't need. It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops, so I guess I selected something whilst installing.
Did you upgrade from 13.2 to Leap 42.1? I had the same delays on 2 of my machines after upgrading. Having a look into /etc/sysconfig/network I found the file ifcfg-eno1 from 13.2. As this interface wasn't listed at the output of #> ip link I removed that file (after saving it to my home Now i have: #> systemd-analyze blame 4.299s wicked.service instead of the previous 30 to 40 seconds. HTH Leo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
leo.salm@gmx.at wrote:
Dave Howorth schrieb:
So since I've spent a lot of time watching Leap booting recently :( I noticed that there's a noticeable delay whilst it sits there waiting for wicked to do something*. I just had a look at a presentation about wicked and it appears to be designed to deal with network complexity, which I don't need. It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops, so I guess I selected something whilst installing.
Did you upgrade from 13.2 to Leap 42.1? I had the same delays on 2 of my machines after upgrading.
Having a look into /etc/sysconfig/network I found the file ifcfg-eno1 from 13.2. As this interface wasn't listed at the output of #> ip link I removed that file (after saving it to my home
Now i have: #> systemd-analyze blame 4.299s wicked.service
On my test desktop for Leap421, I see: # systemd-analyze blame 20.261s wicked.service -- Posted with knode from openSUSE Leap42.1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Per Jessen wrote:
leo.salm@gmx.at wrote:
Dave Howorth schrieb:
So since I've spent a lot of time watching Leap booting recently :( I noticed that there's a noticeable delay whilst it sits there waiting for wicked to do something*. I just had a look at a presentation about wicked and it appears to be designed to deal with network complexity, which I don't need. It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops, so I guess I selected something whilst installing.
Did you upgrade from 13.2 to Leap 42.1? I had the same delays on 2 of my machines after upgrading.
Having a look into /etc/sysconfig/network I found the file ifcfg-eno1 from 13.2. As this interface wasn't listed at the output of #> ip link I removed that file (after saving it to my home
Now i have: #> systemd-analyze blame 4.299s wicked.service
On my test desktop for Leap421, I see:
# systemd-analyze blame 20.261s wicked.service
FWIW, I added "--log-level debug" to wicked.service: Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk systemd[1]: Starting wicked managed network interfaces... Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: __ni_config_parse_ifconfig_source: Adding ifconfig firmware: Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: __ni_config_parse_ifconfig_source: Adding ifconfig compat: Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: __ni_config_parse_ifconfig_source: Adding ifconfig wicked: Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: trying to discover netif config via firmware service "ibft" Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_netconfig_firmware_discovery: buffer has 0 bytes Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_sysconfig_read(/etc/sysconfig/network/config) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_sysconfig_read(/etc/sysconfig/network/dhcp) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_suse_read_routes(/etc/sysconfig/network/routes) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Parsed route: ipv6 ::/0 via fe80::1 dev eth0 type unicast table main scope universe protocol boot Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Reading sysctl file '/boot/sysctl.conf-4.1.15-8-default' Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Reading sysctl file '/usr/lib/sysctl.d/50-default.conf' Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Reading sysctl file '/etc/sysctl.conf' Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_sysconfig_read(/etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-eth0) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Assigned route to eth0: ipv6 ::/0 via fe80::1 dev eth0 type unicast table main scope universe protocol boot Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_sysconfig_read(/etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-lo) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_compat_generate_interfaces: compat:suse:/etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-eth0:0 Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_compat_generate_interfaces: compat:suse:/etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-lo:0 Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: No valid configuration files found at /etc/wicked/ifconfig Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: lo: configuration applied to nanny Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: eth0: configuration applied to nanny Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 wicked[932]: lo up Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 wicked[932]: eth0 up Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 systemd[1]: Started wicked managed network interfaces. Still 23 seconds unexplained after "eth0: configuration applied to nanny". It's not due to DHCP: Apr 2 16:20:42 dresden dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.3.34 from 00:18:fe:6a:73:0b via eth0 Apr 2 16:20:42 dresden dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.3.34 to 00:18:fe:6a:73:0b via eth0 -- Posted with knode 4.14 from openSUSE Leap42.1 office34: Cyrix 486DX2/66MHz, 4096Mb RAM, #9 GXE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/02/2016 10:35 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
FWIW, I added "--log-level debug" to wicked.service:
WONDERFUL! Perhaps Dave can do the same and show hos results too.
Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_compat_generate_interfaces: compat:suse:/etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-lo:0 Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: No valid configuration files found at /etc/wicked/ifconfig Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: lo: configuration applied to nanny Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: eth0: configuration applied to nanny Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 wicked[932]: lo up Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 wicked[932]: eth0 up Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 systemd[1]: Started wicked managed network interfaces.
Still 23 seconds unexplained after "eth0: configuration applied to nanny". It's not due to DHCP:
Please explain: what's 'nanny'? Have you renamed your Ethernet port from some unintelligible long string to 'nanny'? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 17:04, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/02/2016 10:35 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: lo: configuration applied to nanny Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: eth0: configuration applied to nanny Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 wicked[932]: lo up Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 wicked[932]: eth0 up Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 systemd[1]: Started wicked managed network interfaces.
Still 23 seconds unexplained after "eth0: configuration applied to nanny". It's not due to DHCP:
Please explain: what's 'nanny'? Have you renamed your Ethernet port from some unintelligible long string to 'nanny'?
"nanny" here is the short-name for the wickedd-nanny process. Still, the question that remains is: What the hell is "wicked" (and its processes) doing. The "Documentation" is very sparse. at 16:20:32 the wickedd-nanny process gets the data, but the dhcp request is not send out for another 10 seconds, (@ 16:20:42 acc. to dhcpd-server) and takes some extra time (13 seconds) to be locally processed. WTF? Just for testing I woke up a old box (from 2004), 32bit AMD Athlon 2GB Ram - In OSS 10.2 the whole process from network start to done, via ifup and using dhcp-client, takes 5-7 seconds. - In OSS 11.4 also ifup / dhcp-client, also 5-7 seconds. - In OSS 12.3 same 5-7 seconds. - In OSS 13.1 a little longer caused by the dhcp-client 9-11 seconds. On my new box (both OS with all patches applied) - Cent-OS 7 (eth0 active, eth1 not-connected) takes 12-14 seconds (default install) - Leap 42.1 (eth0 active, eth1 not-connected) takes 30-44 seconds (normal default install, some wifi/wpa tools installed by default) - Leap 42.1 (eth0 active, eth1 set to manual) takes 3-5 seconds removed (Modem-manager, wifi, wpa +tools), set eth1 to BOOTMODE="manual" So the trouble is not wicked per-sé, but the surrounding "tools" and the explicit state of the device config. What is the sense in "require/recommend"-ing what whole wifi stuff on a cable only machine? -- I would take the installed packages, but they interfere with normal cable-only operation. - Yamaban.
On 04/02/2016 11:46 AM, Yamaban wrote:
What is the sense in "require/recommend"-ing what whole wifi stuff on a cable only machine? -- I would take the installed packages, but they interfere with normal cable-only operation.
Well there is that! We can probably define a whole class of machines that don't and never will use wifi, not for that matter need monitoring of hot-plug devices, be they USB sticks or additional Ethernet ports. We might call them 'servers' of some sort. We might see data centres with racks and racks of them in rows. We might see billion-dollar companies deploying this and their tech guys wondering why cpu cycles are being wasted on things that the 'servers' don't need. I mean, after all, how often do those machines get rebooted? Especially now with the ability in 4.x to patch live kernels, that Novell and others are crowing about? OK, so some people don't and don't care, but if we don't care why are we discussing it? There is also, as previously mentioned, the massive dependency of KDE on the modem stuff. It is unclear if that is a RPM alone dependency or an actually code level dependency. One of the principles of good systems design is to reduce the level of coupling of modules. How much of this is really necessary? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/02/2016 10:35 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
FWIW, I added "--log-level debug" to wicked.service:
WONDERFUL!
Perhaps Dave can do the same and show hos results too.
Just create /etc/systemd/system/wicked.service.d/blah.conf containing: [Service] ExecStart= ExecStart=/usr/sbin/wicked --log-level debug --systemd ifup all -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.8°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
02.04.2016 17:35, Per Jessen пишет:
Per Jessen wrote:
leo.salm@gmx.at wrote:
Dave Howorth schrieb:
So since I've spent a lot of time watching Leap booting recently :( I noticed that there's a noticeable delay whilst it sits there waiting for wicked to do something*. I just had a look at a presentation about wicked and it appears to be designed to deal with network complexity, which I don't need. It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops, so I guess I selected something whilst installing.
Did you upgrade from 13.2 to Leap 42.1? I had the same delays on 2 of my machines after upgrading.
Having a look into /etc/sysconfig/network I found the file ifcfg-eno1 from 13.2. As this interface wasn't listed at the output of #> ip link I removed that file (after saving it to my home
Now i have: #> systemd-analyze blame 4.299s wicked.service
On my test desktop for Leap421, I see:
# systemd-analyze blame 20.261s wicked.service
FWIW, I added "--log-level debug" to wicked.service:
Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk systemd[1]: Starting wicked managed network interfaces... Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: __ni_config_parse_ifconfig_source: Adding ifconfig firmware: Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: __ni_config_parse_ifconfig_source: Adding ifconfig compat: Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: __ni_config_parse_ifconfig_source: Adding ifconfig wicked: Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: trying to discover netif config via firmware service "ibft" Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_netconfig_firmware_discovery: buffer has 0 bytes Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_sysconfig_read(/etc/sysconfig/network/config) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_sysconfig_read(/etc/sysconfig/network/dhcp) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_suse_read_routes(/etc/sysconfig/network/routes) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Parsed route: ipv6 ::/0 via fe80::1 dev eth0 type unicast table main scope universe protocol boot Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Reading sysctl file '/boot/sysctl.conf-4.1.15-8-default' Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Reading sysctl file '/usr/lib/sysctl.d/50-default.conf' Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Reading sysctl file '/etc/sysctl.conf' Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_sysconfig_read(/etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-eth0) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Assigned route to eth0: ipv6 ::/0 via fe80::1 dev eth0 type unicast table main scope universe protocol boot Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_sysconfig_read(/etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-lo) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_compat_generate_interfaces: compat:suse:/etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-eth0:0 Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_compat_generate_interfaces: compat:suse:/etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-lo:0 Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: No valid configuration files found at /etc/wicked/ifconfig Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: lo: configuration applied to nanny Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: eth0: configuration applied to nanny Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 wicked[932]: lo up Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 wicked[932]: eth0 up Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 systemd[1]: Started wicked managed network interfaces.
Still 23 seconds unexplained after "eth0: configuration applied to nanny". It's not due to DHCP:
Try enabling debug on wickedd and wickedd-nanny services. The job of wicked.service is to only parse configuration and hand it off to wickedd. This is wickedd (and wickedd-nanny) job to actually do anything with it.
Apr 2 16:20:42 dresden dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.3.34 from 00:18:fe:6a:73:0b via eth0 Apr 2 16:20:42 dresden dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.3.34 to 00:18:fe:6a:73:0b via eth0
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
02.04.2016 17:35, Per Jessen пишет:
Per Jessen wrote:
leo.salm@gmx.at wrote:
Dave Howorth schrieb:
So since I've spent a lot of time watching Leap booting recently :( I noticed that there's a noticeable delay whilst it sits there waiting for wicked to do something*. I just had a look at a presentation about wicked and it appears to be designed to deal with network complexity, which I don't need. It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops, so I guess I selected something whilst installing.
Did you upgrade from 13.2 to Leap 42.1? I had the same delays on 2 of my machines after upgrading.
Having a look into /etc/sysconfig/network I found the file ifcfg-eno1 from 13.2. As this interface wasn't listed at the output of #> ip link I removed that file (after saving it to my home
Now i have: #> systemd-analyze blame 4.299s wicked.service
On my test desktop for Leap421, I see:
# systemd-analyze blame 20.261s wicked.service
FWIW, I added "--log-level debug" to wicked.service:
Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk systemd[1]: Starting wicked managed network interfaces... Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: __ni_config_parse_ifconfig_source: Adding ifconfig firmware: Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: __ni_config_parse_ifconfig_source: Adding ifconfig compat: Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: __ni_config_parse_ifconfig_source: Adding ifconfig wicked: Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: trying to discover netif config via firmware service "ibft" Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_netconfig_firmware_discovery: buffer has 0 bytes Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_sysconfig_read(/etc/sysconfig/network/config) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_sysconfig_read(/etc/sysconfig/network/dhcp) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_suse_read_routes(/etc/sysconfig/network/routes) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Parsed route: ipv6 ::/0 via fe80::1 dev eth0 type unicast table main scope universe protocol boot Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Reading sysctl file '/boot/sysctl.conf-4.1.15-8-default' Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Reading sysctl file '/usr/lib/sysctl.d/50-default.conf' Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Reading sysctl file '/etc/sysctl.conf' Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_sysconfig_read(/etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-eth0) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: Assigned route to eth0: ipv6 ::/0 via fe80::1 dev eth0 type unicast table main scope universe protocol boot Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_sysconfig_read(/etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-lo) Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_compat_generate_interfaces: compat:suse:/etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-eth0:0 Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: ni_compat_generate_interfaces: compat:suse:/etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-lo:0 Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: No valid configuration files found at /etc/wicked/ifconfig Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: lo: configuration applied to nanny Apr 02 16:20:32 linux-imqk wicked[932]: eth0: configuration applied to nanny Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 wicked[932]: lo up Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 wicked[932]: eth0 up Apr 02 16:20:55 office34 systemd[1]: Started wicked managed network interfaces.
Still 23 seconds unexplained after "eth0: configuration applied to nanny". It's not due to DHCP:
Try enabling debug on wickedd and wickedd-nanny services. The job of wicked.service is to only parse configuration and hand it off to wickedd. This is wickedd (and wickedd-nanny) job to actually do anything with it.
Okay, here are some more log extracts: http://files.jessen.ch/office34-wicked-journal.txt 22 seconds gap. 18:22:26 to 18:22:48 http://files.jessen.ch/office34-wickedd-journal.txt 9 seconds, 18:22:26 to 18:22:35. http://files.jessen.ch/office34-wickedd-nanny-journal.txt 22 seconds gap. 18:22:26 to 18:22:48 The time from 18:22:35 to 18:22:48 isn't covered. Seeing as Dave had success with disabling ipv6, I thought I would look at messages from dhcpd6. There is very little and nothing the coincides time-wise. Apr 2 18:12:15 dresden dhcpd: Release message from fe80::218:feff:fe6a:730b port 546, transaction ID 0xDBFCF900 Apr 2 18:12:15 dresden dhcpd: Client 00:01:00:01:1d:c3:8e:91:00:18:fe:6a:73:0b releases address 2a03:7520:4c68:1:ff99::d8e1 Apr 2 18:12:15 dresden dhcpd: Sending Reply to fe80::218:feff:fe6a:730b port 546 Apr 2 18:27:00 dresden dhcpd: Solicit message from fe80::218:feff:fe6a:730b port 546, transaction ID 0xD7A35900 Apr 2 18:27:00 dresden dhcpd: Sending Advertise to fe80::218:feff:fe6a:730b port 546 Apr 2 18:27:01 dresden dhcpd: Request message from fe80::218:feff:fe6a:730b port 546, transaction ID 0x9EDA3500 Apr 2 18:27:01 dresden dhcpd: Sending Reply to fe80::218:feff:fe6a:730b port 546 -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2016-04-02 at 14:36 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
leo.salm@gmx.at wrote:
Dave Howorth schrieb:
So since I've spent a lot of time watching Leap booting recently :( I noticed that there's a noticeable delay whilst it sits there waiting for wicked to do something*. I just had a look at a presentation about wicked and it appears to be designed to deal with network complexity, which I don't need. It also seems that Network Manager is the default for desktops, so I guess I selected something whilst installing.
Did you upgrade from 13.2 to Leap 42.1?
No, it's a clean install.
I had the same delays on 2 of my machines after upgrading.
Having a look into /etc/sysconfig/network I found the file ifcfg-eno1 from 13.2. As this interface wasn't listed at the output of #> ip link I removed that file (after saving it to my home
Now i have: #> systemd-analyze blame 4.299s wicked.service
On my test desktop for Leap421, I see:
# systemd-analyze blame 20.261s wicked.service
And after turning off IPv6 I have # systemd-analyze blame 3.853s wicked.service Thanks for the command, Leo! More interesting to me right now is that I also have # systemd-analyze blame 10.016s SuSEfirewall2_init.service -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/02/2016 11:59 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
More interesting to me right now is that I also have
# systemd-analyze blame 10.016s SuSEfirewall2_init.service
Which gets back to my question about the need for a host level firewall in various contexts. Are you also running a host level firewall on your printer and other things hanging off your switch/LAN? If not then a) why not? b) is the 'why not' applicable to the host? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2016-04-02 at 12:13 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
Which gets back to my question about the need for a host level firewall in various contexts.
Are you also running a host level firewall on your printer and other things hanging off your switch/LAN? If not then
I would.
a) why not?
Because the manufacturer didn't install it, so it is not an option.
b) is the 'why not' applicable to the host?
Because the entry firewall on most places is in the access router suplied by the ISP, which is not trusty, and is never updated. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlcAFhIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XEewCfdEkoNl0ckX7mroQSP77Sf3SM 2akAoIDQl9a3uPANl1gelOZOwx/Ipak8 =Kivu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/02/2016 02:57 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2016-04-02 at 12:13 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
Which gets back to my question about the need for a host level firewall in various contexts.
Are you also running a host level firewall on your printer and other things hanging off your switch/LAN? If not then
I would.
a) why not?
Because the manufacturer didn't install it, so it is not an option.
b) is the 'why not' applicable to the host?
Because the entry firewall on most places is in the access router suplied by the ISP, which is not trusty, and is never updated.
Considering that all my network devices are "Closet of Anxiety" grade rejects or stuff my neighbours gave me when they upgraded, I seem to have a much better class of networking gear for asymptotically zero expenditure. I suffer from zero of the defects you have mentioned. Perhaps you need to visit a thrift store, Salvation Army store or something. I've got a WRT54G grade device I picked up there for C$3.49 waiting to flash with DD-WRT. I may have to find a way to add more memory, but that's all part of the fun :-) -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2016-04-02 at 16:19 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 04/02/2016 02:57 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
b) is the 'why not' applicable to the host?
Because the entry firewall on most places is in the access router suplied by the ISP, which is not trusty, and is never updated.
Considering that all my network devices are "Closet of Anxiety" grade rejects or stuff my neighbours gave me when they upgraded, I seem to have a much better class of networking gear for asymptotically zero expenditure.
I suffer from zero of the defects you have mentioned.
Perhaps you need to visit a thrift store, Salvation Army store or something. I've got a WRT54G grade device I picked up there for C$3.49 waiting to flash with DD-WRT. I may have to find a way to add more memory, but that's all part of the fun :-)
No salvation army here, AFAIK :-) No, I can not replace the router that the ISP installed on my home, because it is a complex one handling also TV cable service and posible the phone. And its settings are not documented. I think it has some VPN configured for phone and another for TV. So to replace it I can't use a cheap router, for starters. Then I need to setup a complex setup which is unknown to me and many. And then, I would have to cover cases when the ISP changes things. On the original router, they do this remotely. On the new one, no. So I /must/ use the original ISP suplied router, and not change its configuration much. However, the situation is similar to millions of users worldwide: they are using the router suplied to them by the ISP, and these machines are what they are. Maybe no firewall, and most of them get never updates. My current ISP router I know can be automatically updated by my ISP. They can do this massively, but I don't know if they really do so. In any case, I can't really trust the firewall in it. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlcA/JsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VlZgCgg/EH0r/Zz36j8PEakArhOieP fTkAnjIXt8pNAwHYuktOa7ZP/rmRIgE5 =dInh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/03/2016 07:20 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
My current ISP router I know can be automatically updated by my ISP. They can do this massively, but I don't know if they really do so. In any case, I can't really trust the firewall in it.
My heart bleeds for you. That's probably why my shirt is red. No, wait, it was that way when I bought it! http://www.tilley.com/canada_en/men/shirts/tech-novelty-shirt-1.html Well up here in the primitive GWN of Kanukistaniland where we have snow even now, April 3rd, there is a "yes it used to be but we changed all that". Aspiring entrepreneurs took the dominant cable company, Rogers, to court to demand access to the cable network so as to supply alternative IP services over Rogers cable network to subscribers. Yes, so long as I have a DOCSIS-3 cable router I can use any of the half dozen or so that have sprung up and lasted. The offer better rates, better service, higher caps, more options. Pick any three of those 4. Rogers is falling behind and scrambling with its own offerings, but having to jack up its rates, even for those not taking advantage of the additional services it offers in competition to Netfliks. So people get pizzed off and look to alternatives. You problem, it seems, its that you don't have the competitive landscape to offer alternatives. There's no shortage of DOCSIS-3 modems under $50 on eBay, even ones under $50 with shipping! Some have user configurable firewalls. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/04/2016 16:32, Anton Aylward wrote:
You problem, it seems, its that you don't have the competitive landscape to offer alternatives.
There are alternative providers, but I do not want to change, there is no significant advantage and some inconveniences (like email address change, different TV service). And each one comes with their own access router.
There's no shortage of DOCSIS-3 modems under $50 on eBay, even ones under $50 with shipping! Some have user configurable firewalls.
I do not know if DOCSIS is what is in use or not. I do know that some people use their own modem-router for fibre with this provider. But I do not want that extra complexity on my life. (I did buy a router for ADSL, which now works as WiFi access point instead) And I would not trust a 50$ router, anyway. -- Saludos/Cheers, Carlos E.R. (Minas-Morgul - W10) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/03/2016 11:33 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
And I would not trust a 50$ router, anyway.
The you really really really won't like the old WRTG54's converted to use DD-WRT! I've never paid more then C$0004.99 for one That's what US$3.8 something. I'd trust the FOSS flash rather than the original vendor code. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/03/2016 01:48 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:
The you really really really won't like the old WRTG54's converted to use DD-WRT!
I've never paid more then C$0004.99 for one
Then you're not running anything better than 802.11g. Every device I own is capable of running at least 802.11n and so I have an "n" access point. My firewall/router is a refurb computer running openSUSE 13.1. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/03/2016 02:02 PM, James Knott wrote:
On 04/03/2016 01:48 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:
The you really really really won't like the old WRTG54's converted to use DD-WRT!
I've never paid more then C$0004.99 for one
Then you're not running anything better than 802.11g. Every device I own is capable of running at least 802.11n and so I have an "n" access point. My firewall/router is a refurb computer running openSUSE 13.1.
Regular readers will recall that I'm an enthusiast for "refurbished" (even if only by my own hand) equipment. Much of it 'rejects' from work as the result of upgrades. Regular technophiles will recall that each release of MS-Windows seems to demand new hardware (is this a conspiracy or what?) but the old hardware still runs even late model Linux just fine, thank you very much! So there's a regular supply of reconditioned or recondition-able equipment :-)[1] I'm always on the lookout for new stuff. As I said I have that WRTG53 for $3.50. Yes the h/w can't do 802.11n no matter how much DD-WRT tries :-( But I would guess that the device was 'thrown out' because the user upgraded to a new (and full priced) 802.11n device. No doubt there will be another upgrade somewhere, sometime, and I'll get a 802.11n device for around $5. And apply DD-WRT to that :-) So it goes .... [1] Some day my basement will need a purge! -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (15)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Anton Aylward -
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Howorth -
Dave Howorth -
Felix Miata -
James Knott -
John Andersen -
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink -
leo.salm＠gmx.at -
Patrick Shanahan -
Per Jessen -
sdm -
Xen -
Yamaban