Randall R Schulz writes:

On Wednesday 25 July 2007 08:49, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

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nm ist the GNOME frontend,

If that's true, it's a poorly chosen name, since Unix systems have had an "nm" command as part of the object code tools for eons (that nm lists object and executable file tables of contents).

You're right - it's "nm-applet". Sorry, I was to fast ;-) Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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The problem is that (at least using knetworkmanager) you can't choose between infratructure only and adhoc connections. The point is the hotspot I'm using (it's inside a library with many students) is hiding its SSID. And windows make it to easy to start an

If it just hides the ESSID, just enter it.

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adhoc network. So there are a lot of computers saying that they would be the hotspot but they are just a adhoc network. Networkmanager always tries to connect to the adhocs which fails of course. What to do to enforce connecting to the infrastructure??

Otherwise use the traditional scripts.

But then I can't use it at home again without starting yast and reconfigure everything. I just don't want to connect to adhoc networks. If networkmanager connects to a adhoc network with the same ssid, is it sending the WEP/WAP key to there, too? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, July 25, 2007 9:37 am, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

"Johannes Nohl" writes:

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The problem is that (at least using knetworkmanager) you can't choose between infratructure only and adhoc connections. The point is the hotspot I'm using (it's inside a library with many students) is hiding its SSID. And windows make it to easy to start an

If it just hides the ESSID, just enter it.

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adhoc network. So there are a lot of computers saying that they would be the hotspot but they are just a adhoc network. Networkmanager always tries to connect to the adhocs which fails of course. What to do to enforce connecting to the infrastructure??

Otherwise use the traditional scripts.

But then I can't use it at home again without starting yast and reconfigure everything.

You could use scpm in general.

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I just don't want to connect to adhoc networks. If networkmanager connects to a adhoc network with the same ssid, is it sending the WEP/WAP key to there, too?

I'm not sure about adhoc - but hidden SSID works just fine,

I don't know for those of you in Gnome-land, but in KDE with KNetworkmanager (the KDE front end to networkmanager) you right click the icon in the system tray, and you'll be presented with a list of available wifi networks. If you want to connect to another - for example, one that has a hidden SSID like mine - then you select "Connect to other" and enter the gory details. Does that help? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, July 26, 2007 2:27 pm, Johannes Nohl wrote:

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I don't know for those of you in Gnome-land, but in KDE with KNetworkmanager (the KDE front end to networkmanager) you right click the icon in the system tray, and you'll be presented with a list of available wifi networks.

I'm using exactly knetworkmanager even under gnome or xfce.

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If you want to connect to another - for example, one that has a hidden SSID like mine - then you select "Connect to other" and enter the gory details.

The adhoc network with enabled SSID interferes with the infrastructure network with hidden SSID. I use "Connect to other" and, if there's no adhoc network with same SSID around, it connects to the hidden SSID. Like it should do. But if there's a network with same SSID Networkmanager connects to it no matter if you have choosen a different (the infrastructure network in my case) originally. Result is that Networkmanager tries to connect to the adhoc with shown SSID and fails of course.

You're saying, for example, you have a SSID (hidden) of Net1 and a SSID (open) of Net1 in the same room?

Even good old Windows has options like: - prefer infrastructure - only connect to infrastructure

Yes, I believe the Windows method of connecting to networks is more intelligent and far easier on us users. Beyond the driver issue - which is no longer a problem - I don't know why we Linux laptop users must suffer. There is something called "preferred" networks, which I believe you can setup. I can't help much more than that, I'm afraid. Maybe - since this is more generic than SUSE - you can post the question on the LinuxForums website under the laptop specific area - http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/forumdisplay.php?f=25 or using the opensuse mobile list. It is low volume but may help. opensuse-mobile@opensuse.org

Inside the library I use to go there are - obvisously - many users who don't know what they are doing. They open a adhoc network instead of connecting to the infrastructure. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dennis J. Tuchler wrote:

I noted what was said about hidden SSID problems using SuSE and Knetwork manager:

Kai Ponte wrote:

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On Thu, July 26, 2007 2:27 pm, Johannes Nohl wrote:

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I don't know for those of you in Gnome-land, but in KDE with KNetworkmanager (the KDE front end to networkmanager) you right click the icon in the system tray, and you'll be presented with a list of available wifi networks. I'm using exactly knetworkmanager even under gnome or xfce.

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If you want to connect to another - for example, one that has a hidden SSID like mine - then you select "Connect to other" and enter the gory details. The adhoc network with enabled SSID interferes with the infrastructure network with hidden SSID. I use "Connect to other" and, if there's no adhoc network with same SSID around, it connects to the hidden SSID. Like it should do. But if there's a network with same SSID Networkmanager connects to it no matter if you have choosen a different (the infrastructure network in my case) originally. Result is that Networkmanager tries to connect to the adhoc with shown SSID and fails of course.

My eth1 setup includes a passphrase and ESSID for my current wireless router. I expect to take my laptop "on the road" and use it in various places which provide WiFi. If the identifying name of the network is not apparent, how do I set it up? The "connect to other wireless network" option on the knetwork manager requires that I fill in an ESSID. So, if I can't get the name, what do I do?

Deliberate mixing of ad-hoc and infrastructure based networking on the same SSID is probably not good practice. People configuring machines as ad-hoc with the same SSID and passphrase is something the network managers can do little about, and I would regard this as a potential security weakness in some contexts (might also have a negative effect on overall network performance). For home usage, or closed organisation networks the key based approach is safe and reliable enough, but for certain classes of public access I would hope to be looking at a certificate based approach rather than a pass phrase/key based approach (at the moment I do not know how linux handles certificate based WiFi access). A hidden SSID usually means the network managers do not want anyone and their pet poodle to connect, you need to to talk to the people running the network either to get a certificate or key; and pay the cash if appropriate. Merely seeing the network DOES NOT give you authority to use it, and if someone is hiding the network this is a doubly clear message, At the moment you have to set up a distinct configuration for each WiFi network. rant on... I think main problem is that joe/jill user just thinks that putting together a network or connecting to a network is like plugging in telephones to sockets in a walls. Unfortunately, however much you dress it up behind nice fancy GUIs it aint. Even more problematic are non-technical managers in organisations who think the same way. rant off... - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGqpKAasN0sSnLmgIRAq9rAJ0Q4ExitxXCPlM6dJ/CwjcKccUsWACfV0HP 3Cyn+2cS92jKDzc0m+/GtNw= =DXn9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

My eth1 setup includes a passphrase and ESSID for my current wireless router. I expect to take my laptop "on the road" and use it in various places which provide WiFi. If the identifying name of the network is not apparent, how do I set it up? Ask the network manager. If it is hidden, that is exactly why. They WANT to control access. Access to such a network should be seen as a

On 07/28/2007 12:20 AM, Dennis J. Tuchler wrote: privilege and not a right.

The "connect to other wireless network" option on the knetwork manager requires that I fill in an ESSID. So, if I can't get the name, what do I do?

Not connect. Unless you are given the info, you would not be allowed to connect to those networks. That said, most publicly accessible wireless networks are setup to connect easily and WILL show up in the list of available networks. -- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871 running openSUSE 10.2 x86_64 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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The adhoc network with enabled SSID interferes with the infrastructure network with hidden SSID. I use "Connect to other" and, if there's no adhoc network with same SSID around, it connects to the hidden SSID. Like it should do. But if there's a network with same SSID Networkmanager connects to it no matter if you have choosen a different (the infrastructure network in my case) originally. Result is that Networkmanager tries to connect to the adhoc with shown SSID and fails of course.

You're saying, for example, you have a SSID (hidden) of Net1 and a SSID (open) of Net1 in the same room?

That's what I meant. I want to connect to the hidden SSID (it's infrastructure or managed mode) but NetworkManager tries to connect to the open SSID (it's an adhoc - computer to computer network). The only work around is specifiing the access points MAC but therefor you can't use nm-applet, I have to use yast. The disadvantage is that I have to reconfigure everything at home with yast and that the infrastructure network with the hidden SSID uses different access points. The goal would be a switch inside nm-applet to say: use infrastructure mode only (the ad-hoc networks are opened by people who doesn't know how to connect to a network with hidden SSID running windows - so windows isn't ideal either) btw. knetworkmanager offers giving a specific MAC. This is disappointing... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Freitag, 24. August 2007, Kai Ponte wrote:

On Wednesday 22 August 2007 15:54, Johannes Nohl wrote:

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The adhoc network with enabled SSID interferes with the

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You're saying, for example, you have a SSID (hidden) of Net1 and a SSID (open) of Net1 in the same room?

That's what I meant. I want to connect to the hidden SSID (it's infrastructure or managed mode) but NetworkManager tries to connect to the open SSID (it's an adhoc - computer to computer network).

Personally, I think it is lame that there's two networks with the same SSID in the same proximity.

Change one and your problem is solved.

If only it were that simple ... In the scenario that he is describing he (or anybody else) has no control over this. In theory there should be only one wlan network with a hidden ESSID. In reality there are some users with mobile devices that *want* to connect to that network but by mistake instead of associating with the existing network create their own (same ESSID) ad-hoc network. The worst part about this is that they don't even know what they did, so it's no use having a "manager" decide that all ad-hoc networks must be disabled again since the people that would need to do that aren't even aware. I have seen this myself at a conference. Once this happens, new people trying to (correctly) join the network have a good chance to connect to the wrong (ad-hoc) network if they can only specify the ESSID but not the connection mode (infrastructure vs. ad-hoc).

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This is disappointing...

I agree. You need to chat with whomever set that up. I don't really think it is as much a software problem as a management problem.

Unfortunately not. Greetings from Stuhr hartmut -- Hartmut Meyer, EMEA NTS Business Development Project Manager SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Volker Smid, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg T: +49 4221 5848182 - M: +49 179 2279480 F: +49 4221 6894714 - hartmut.meyer@novell.com ---------------------------------------------------- SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 - Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux

On Friday 24 August 2007 10:01, Gryffus wrote:

Hi,

You are absolutely right with this... I administer a free WiFi community AP and last month somebody created a network wit exactly same ESSID and WEP key as me.

Could that possibly be an accident? Or was it some kind of intrusion / data theft / identity theft attempt? Anyway, is WEP not entirely discredited as trivially hacked with less than a day of packet snooping and a bit of calculation? Why aren't you using WPA or WPA2?

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Regards Gfs

Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 24 August 2007 11:05, Gryffus wrote:

Yes , it was accident. One of my clients had set AP mode instead of client on its wifi router... :-)

I know that WEP is unsafe. Broke into a WEP protected networks take less than 15mins. I use MAC authentication...

Much modern MAC hardware has programmable addresses, you know, and you cannot use any network, wired or wireless, without disclosing your MAC addresses.

And WPA is also unbreakable :-)

"The word 'unblowupable' is thrown around a lot these days..." — Homer Simpson

Gfs

RRS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hartmut, when I read your comment I thought you're using same library as I... If I enter a key for a infrastructure network and nm is traying to connect to the ad-hoc network, doesn't it try to authenticate with the key for infrastructure network against the ad-hoc one? Isn't this behaviour a security related bug? The admin of the ad-hoc network could log the keys, or can't he? Johannes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org