[opensuse] knetworkmanager in 11.1
Hi, just looking for a little information about 11.1. Has anyone tried knetworkmanager on a laptop with 11.1 to see if it works? I haven't gone from 10.3 to 11.0 on my laptop because it never seemed to have worked or gotten fixed yet in 11.0. I am wondering if it is working properly, in order to venture putting 11.1 on the laptop. Thanks, Mark -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 08:45:10AM -0500, Mark Misulich wrote:
Hi, just looking for a little information about 11.1.
Has anyone tried knetworkmanager on a laptop with 11.1 to see if it works? I haven't gone from 10.3 to 11.0 on my laptop because it never seemed to have worked or gotten fixed yet in 11.0. I am wondering if it is working properly, in order to venture putting 11.1 on the laptop.
Works here. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de> wrote:
Works here.
Works also here. Never been so good like this one :-) regards, medwinz -- Bill Cosby - "Human beings are the only creatures on earth that allow their children to come back home." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 26 December 2008, Mark Misulich wrote:
Hi, just looking for a little information about 11.1.
Has anyone tried knetworkmanager on a laptop with 11.1 to see if it works? I haven't gone from 10.3 to 11.0 on my laptop because it never seemed to have worked or gotten fixed yet in 11.0. I am wondering if it is working properly, in order to venture putting 11.1 on the laptop.
Thanks, Mark
bombs completely when you try to use it on 11.1 KDE4.x.x pete . -- SuSE Linux 10.3-Alpha3. (Linux is like a wigwam - no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Friday 26 of December 2008 16:10:12 peter nikolic napisał(a):
On Friday 26 December 2008, Mark Misulich wrote:
Hi, just looking for a little information about 11.1.
Has anyone tried knetworkmanager on a laptop with 11.1 to see if it works? I haven't gone from 10.3 to 11.0 on my laptop because it never seemed to have worked or gotten fixed yet in 11.0. I am wondering if it is working properly, in order to venture putting 11.1 on the laptop.
Thanks, Mark
bombs completely when you try to use it on 11.1 KDE4.x.x
pete .
-- SuSE Linux 10.3-Alpha3. (Linux is like a wigwam - no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.) On KDE4 You need to use knetworkmanager from KDE3. It's installed by default with KDE4. -- Mariusz Fik openSUSE Community Member -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 26 December 2008, Mariusz Fik wrote:
Friday 26 of December 2008 16:10:12 peter nikolic napisał(a):
On Friday 26 December 2008, Mark Misulich wrote:
Hi, just looking for a little information about 11.1.
Has anyone tried knetworkmanager on a laptop with 11.1 to see if it works? I haven't gone from 10.3 to 11.0 on my laptop because it never seemed to have worked or gotten fixed yet in 11.0. I am wondering if it is working properly, in order to venture putting 11.1 on the laptop.
Thanks, Mark
bombs completely when you try to use it on 11.1 KDE4.x.x
pete .
-- SuSE Linux 10.3-Alpha3. (Linux is like a wigwam - no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.)
On KDE4 You need to use knetworkmanager from KDE3. It's installed by default with KDE4. -- Mariusz Fik openSUSE Community Member
yes that the one that bombs pete -- SuSE Linux 10.3-Alpha3. (Linux is like a wigwam - no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Dne Friday 26 December 2008 ob 14:45:10 je Mark Misulich napisal(a):
Hi, just looking for a little information about 11.1.
Has anyone tried knetworkmanager on a laptop with 11.1 to see if it works? I haven't gone from 10.3 to 11.0 on my laptop because it never seemed to have worked or gotten fixed yet in 11.0. I am wondering if it is working properly, in order to venture putting 11.1 on the laptop.
Thanks, Mark
On my laptop, it works as well as in 11.0. The only two differences I noticed: -- you are prevented to configure connections in YaST and prompted to use NetworkManager instead. That was not the case in 11.0 -- the signal strength graph CONSISTENTLY shows a stronger signal in KDE4 than it does in KDE3 (more blue bars). Now, is that true signal strength or just graphics? Should try to compare iwlist scan in both DE when I find the time. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 26 December 2008 05:45:10 Mark Misulich wrote:
Hi, just looking for a little information about 11.1.
Has anyone tried knetworkmanager on a laptop with 11.1 to see if it works? I haven't gone from 10.3 to 11.0 on my laptop because it never seemed to have worked or gotten fixed yet in 11.0. I am wondering if it is working properly, in order to venture putting 11.1 on the laptop.
Someone undoubtedly has, but I gave up on network manager long ago, and switched to using ifup to start the connection, even on my laptops. It seems to be a lot faster and in my case, a lot more reliable. And startup is done before control gets to me, so I don't have to sit there and look at an icon until it tells me I'm connected. Everything I need to access is ready when I am. Maybe network manager is a lot better today than it was when I stopped using it, but ifup works so well for me, I've never felt compelled to give it another try. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Jerry Houston wrote:
Someone undoubtedly has, but I gave up on network manager long ago, and switched to using ifup to start the connection, even on my laptops. It seems to be a lot faster and in my case, a lot more reliable.
Jerry - I like the idea of using ifup on a laptop, but how do you do it? I have my desktops set to using ifup because they have a static connection. However, my laptop goes from work to home and often visits other locations. I need it to connect to various wifi points - even in an airport. does ifup allow this? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kai Ponte wrote:
Jerry Houston wrote:
Someone undoubtedly has, but I gave up on network manager long ago, and switched to using ifup to start the connection, even on my laptops. It seems to be a lot faster and in my case, a lot more reliable.
Jerry -
I like the idea of using ifup on a laptop, but how do you do it?
I have my desktops set to using ifup because they have a static connection. However, my laptop goes from work to home and often visits other locations. I need it to connect to various wifi points - even in an airport.
does ifup allow this?
Back when I was doing that, I created various scripts for statip IP, DHCP, WiFi etc. I've been using Knetworkmanager for the last couple of distros. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2008-12-26 at 11:10 -0800, Kai Ponte wrote:
Jerry Houston wrote:
Someone undoubtedly has, but I gave up on network manager long ago, and switched to using ifup to start the connection, even on my laptops. It seems to be a lot faster and in my case, a lot more reliable.
Jerry -
I like the idea of using ifup on a laptop, but how do you do it?
I have my desktops set to using ifup because they have a static connection. However, my laptop goes from work to home and often visits other locations. I need it to connect to various wifi points - even in an airport.
does ifup allow this?
One possible method is using profiles. You set up your machine to use profiles in yast, and when you go fromone location to another you swithc profile (on boot, in theory). What this does is, first save all the configuration files defined for the current profile somewhere, under the current profile, and then restore the configuration files for the new profile. These can be network files, but also things like postfix configuration and many things. It is very powerfull. Maybe there is another method. Look, if you issue the command: nimrodel:~ # rcnetwork Usage: /sbin/rcnetwork <action> [<config>] [<interface>] [-o <options>] actions: start|stop|status|reload|force-reload|try-restart restart|stop-all-dhcp-clients|restart-all-dhcp-clients options: [on]boot,hotplug,manual,check,debug,fake,nm,netcontrol type=<typelist>,skip=<skiplist> typelist: space seperated list of interface types skiplist: space seperated list of interfaces to skip for 'start' nimrodel:~ # I'm interested in the word "config" above. Can we have different "configs"? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAklVPLQACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XnpQCePH1INMa/aNIF2RQIvOZulTuj HeIAnRE3zH8IR09u3pA4FwDGI0/cT4Dt =XTi8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Friday, 2008-12-26 at 11:10 -0800, Kai Ponte wrote:
Jerry Houston wrote:
Someone undoubtedly has, but I gave up on network manager long ago, and switched to using ifup to start the connection, even on my laptops. It seems to be a lot faster and in my case, a lot more reliable.
Jerry -
I like the idea of using ifup on a laptop, but how do you do it?
I have my desktops set to using ifup because they have a static connection. However, my laptop goes from work to home and often visits other locations. I need it to connect to various wifi points - even in an airport.
does ifup allow this?
One possible method is using profiles.
You set up your machine to use profiles in yast, and when you go fromone location to another you swithc profile (on boot, in theory). What this does is, first save all the configuration files defined for the current profile somewhere, under the current profile, and then restore the configuration files for the new profile. These can be network files, but also things like postfix configuration and many things. It is very powerfull.
Maybe there is another method. Look, if you issue the command:
nimrodel:~ # rcnetwork Usage: /sbin/rcnetwork <action> [<config>] [<interface>] [-o <options>] actions: start|stop|status|reload|force-reload|try-restart restart|stop-all-dhcp-clients|restart-all-dhcp-clients options: [on]boot,hotplug,manual,check,debug,fake,nm,netcontrol type=<typelist>,skip=<skiplist> typelist: space seperated list of interface types skiplist: space seperated list of interfaces to skip for 'start' nimrodel:~ #
I'm interested in the word "config" above. Can we have different "configs"?
I have also used profiles in the past and while they generally worked, they could be flakey. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 26 December 2008 11:10:34 Kai Ponte wrote:
I have my desktops set to using ifup because they have a static connection. However, my laptop goes from work to home and often visits other locations. I need it to connect to various wifi points - even in an airport.
There's our difference. This big 17" laptop stays at home. I have a little Lenovo that I pack along on motorcycle trips, but that one runs XP-Pro. It uses Microsoft's version of network manager.
does ifup allow this?
I know you could do it by reconfiguring the wireless card, but you'd also need a way to discover unknown networks. Perhaps someone who's needed to do it can let us both know how. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 26 December 2008 17:05, Jerry Houston wrote:
...
There's our difference. This big 17" laptop stays at home. ...
What the hell?? Why pay the incredible premium for a laptop, let alone that of one with a gargantuan (for a laptop) screen, if you're not going to exploit its portability? For crying out loud, why put up with a laptop keyboard if you don't have to?
...
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2008-12-26 at 17:55 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Friday 26 December 2008 17:05, Jerry Houston wrote:
...
There's our difference. This big 17" laptop stays at home. ...
What the hell??
Why pay the incredible premium for a laptop, let alone that of one with a gargantuan (for a laptop) screen, if you're not going to exploit its portability? For crying out loud, why put up with a laptop keyboard if you don't have to?
I know quite some people that buy a laptop simply because it doesn't take up an entire table. They take out the computer from the cupboard, use it for a while, then store it away again. Neat. For example. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAklVi/wACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VC/gCdFLeuvzkn5zZDXDDAZJOw40et NjEAn3zUSNGDv5e+7rzYLjzTjwNdrRLS =A5OV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
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On Friday, 2008-12-26 at 17:55 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Friday 26 December 2008 17:05, Jerry Houston wrote:
...
There's our difference. This big 17" laptop stays at home. ...
What the hell??
Why pay the incredible premium for a laptop, let alone that of one with a gargantuan (for a laptop) screen, if you're not going to exploit its portability? For crying out loud, why put up with a laptop keyboard if you don't have to?
I know quite some people that buy a laptop simply because it doesn't take up an entire table. They take out the computer from the cupboard, use it for a while, then store it away again. Neat.
Perhaps Randall has missed the fact that Laptops outsell desktops these days. It would seem a LOT of people opt for a laptops over desktops. The premium also buys portability options, even if you just want to move to the couch. And there is no problem putting up with a laptop keyboard. The problem comes from trying to switch back and forth from one keyboard to another. -- ----------JSA--------- Someone stole my tag line, so now I have this rental. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 26 December 2008 18:04, John Andersen wrote:
...
Perhaps Randall has missed the fact that Laptops outsell desktops these days.
And we all now know how very rational the consumer is. That is no doubt why the American economy remains so robust in the face of the turmoil beyond its borders.
It would seem a LOT of people opt for a laptops over desktops.
A lot of people opt for SUVs and bloated pickup trucks (whose pristine beds prove they're never used to haul anything) over sensible personal transportation.
... And there is no problem putting up with a laptop keyboard. ...
Then you're fortunate to have tiny hands.
JSA
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Friday 26 December 2008 18:04, John Andersen wrote:
...
Perhaps Randall has missed the fact that Laptops outsell desktops these days.
And we all now know how very rational the consumer is. That is no doubt why the American economy remains so robust in the face of the turmoil beyond its borders.
It would seem a LOT of people opt for a laptops over desktops.
A lot of people opt for SUVs and bloated pickup trucks (whose pristine beds prove they're never used to haul anything) over sensible personal transportation.
Ahem! http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/2008/av_in_sedona_1024.jpg That was in late November. (I've tried driving a car, and can't stand bumping my head on the roof while squeezing in and out.)
... And there is no problem putting up with a laptop keyboard. ...
Then you're fortunate to have tiny hands.
Actually, I kind of like laptop keyboards. They're easier to work on IMO than regular keyboards. If it weren't for my two 24" monitors at work, I'd be using my laptop to remote into my other four computers.. I also very much find the touch pad more easier to use than the mouse or trackball. Oh, and I'm 6'4" (190cm) with large hands, in case you're curious. (I'd suck as a vascular surgeon.) My only major complaint about laptops is that they're generallly fitted with slower (5400rpm) drives than desktops. My wife's main destop (win2K) has two 10,000 rpm scsi drives with one for the OS and swap and the other for data. My other openSUSE desktops have 10,000 rpm drives as well. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2008-12-26 at 19:36 -0800, Kai Ponte wrote:
My only major complaint about laptops is that they're generallly fitted with slower (5400rpm) drives than desktops. My wife's main destop (win2K) has two 10,000 rpm scsi drives with one for the OS and swap and the other for data.
I wonder if the 5400rpm ones are more robust. And, now that I think, I wonder if they could make them with variable speed... speed up when the OS requests it or the usage is higher. But maybe they need a certain speed for the head to fly on the bed of air over the surface. I mean, maybe it is calculated for a certain speed. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAklV5k0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VFwACdFjXecQhc/QvskSk+gU+MWV3p IssAoIR/qrSZzVrJrebhDqGP23PK8eJt =3sgd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2008-12-27 at 09:24 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
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On Friday, 2008-12-26 at 19:36 -0800, Kai Ponte wrote:
My only major complaint about laptops is that they're generallly fitted with slower (5400rpm) drives than desktops. My wife's main destop (win2K) has two 10,000 rpm scsi drives with one for the OS and swap and the other for data.
I wonder if the 5400rpm ones are more robust.
And, now that I think, I wonder if they could make them with variable speed... speed up when the OS requests it or the usage is higher. But maybe they need a certain speed for the head to fly on the bed of air over the surface. I mean, maybe it is calculated for a certain speed.
Perhaps it's power usage, the 2.5" 5400 rpm in my laptop is powered from the IDE bus, where as my 2.3" 7200 rpm in hte main system has it's own power plug. And as far as speed issues are concerned, when the new solid state drives reach about 350G in size at an affordable price, i'll kick over to them. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2008-12-27 at 10:44 -0500, Mike McMullin wrote:
I wonder if the 5400rpm ones are more robust. ...
Perhaps it's power usage, the 2.5" 5400 rpm in my laptop is powered
You are right, I forgot power.
from the IDE bus, where as my 2.3" 7200 rpm in hte main system has it's own power plug. And as far as speed issues are concerned, when the new solid state drives reach about 350G in size at an affordable price, i'll kick over to them.
Those memory/drives, can they stand infinite write cycles? Because flash memories can't. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAklWr3oACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XvhACdFronPsJU3MH580VO4z0ZB3Ic keYAn2gkfkFDdm6CJbJmmGSNcO6XkldE =CZPD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-12-27 at 10:44 -0500, Mike McMullin wrote:
I wonder if the 5400rpm ones are more robust. ...
Perhaps it's power usage, the 2.5" 5400 rpm in my laptop is powered
You are right, I forgot power.
from the IDE bus, where as my 2.3" 7200 rpm in hte main system has it's own power plug. And as far as speed issues are concerned, when the new solid state drives reach about 350G in size at an affordable price, i'll kick over to them.
Those memory/drives, can they stand infinite write cycles? Because flash memories can't.
Mechanical drives can't either. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2008-12-27 at 17:50 -0500, James Knott wrote:
Those memory/drives, can they stand infinite write cycles? Because flash memories can't.
Mechanical drives can't either.
Of course they can. The limit is in the thousands of hours of usage, not in the write cycles. There is no wear on the surface or the head because of changing the magnetization. They don't touch. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAklWumwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WXEwCfacoWp7NgLV8svcb2zvAesmGV E/MAoIVhUQHLZIglb3OjnN4Tgrw8M3CR =216y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-12-27 at 17:50 -0500, James Knott wrote:
Those memory/drives, can they stand infinite write cycles? Because flash memories can't.
Mechanical drives can't either.
Of course they can. The limit is in the thousands of hours of usage, not in the write cycles. There is no wear on the surface or the head because of changing the magnetization. They don't touch.
How many infinite writes do you get per thousand hours? Mechanical devices wear whenever they're used. Heads crash, bearing wear out. Why else do drives fail? They don't last forever. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
James Knott pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-12-27 at 17:50 -0500, James Knott wrote:
Those memory/drives, can they stand infinite write cycles? Because flash memories can't. Mechanical drives can't either. Of course they can. The limit is in the thousands of hours of usage, not in the write cycles. There is no wear on the surface or the head because of changing the magnetization. They don't touch.
How many infinite writes do you get per thousand hours? Mechanical devices wear whenever they're used. Heads crash, bearing wear out. Why else do drives fail? They don't last forever.
But they never stop working because of too many write cycles. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 27 December 2008 15:38, James Knott wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-12-27 at 17:50 -0500, James Knott wrote:
Those memory/drives, can they stand infinite write cycles? Because flash memories can't.
Mechanical drives can't either.
Of course they can. The limit is in the thousands of hours of usage, not in the write cycles. There is no wear on the surface or the head because of changing the magnetization. They don't touch.
How many infinite writes do you get per thousand hours? Mechanical devices wear whenever they're used. Heads crash, bearing wear out. Why else do drives fail? They don't last forever.
But the point is that flash RAMs have an "asymmetry" between reading and writing that does not exist in magnetic media. There is (with current technologies) an upper bound on the number orf writes (but not reads) that can be performed on a flash RAM that has no counterpart in magnetic media. Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Saturday 27 December 2008 15:38, James Knott wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-12-27 at 17:50 -0500, James Knott wrote:
Those memory/drives, can they stand infinite write cycles? Because flash memories can't.
Mechanical drives can't either.
Of course they can. The limit is in the thousands of hours of usage, not in the write cycles. There is no wear on the surface or the head because of changing the magnetization. They don't touch.
How many infinite writes do you get per thousand hours? Mechanical devices wear whenever they're used. Heads crash, bearing wear out. Why else do drives fail? They don't last forever.
But the point is that flash RAMs have an "asymmetry" between reading and writing that does not exist in magnetic media. There is (with current technologies) an upper bound on the number orf writes (but not reads) that can be performed on a flash RAM that has no counterpart in magnetic media.
Randall Schulz
With that, you raise the question of how often you write vs read. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 27 December 2008 16:03, James Knott wrote:
...
With that, you raise the question of how often you write vs read.
Well, it is a pattern observed in all information processing that reads outnumber writes at all levels (CPU registers, level-1 and level-2 cache, RAM and secondary storage), but that does not change the fact that flash-based secondary storage cannot sustain as many write cycles as rotating magnetic media. To date, fancy redundancy schemes are required to balance the read / write cycle limits in flash-RAM devices when used as secondary storage devices. Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 27 December 2008 15:29, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-12-27 at 17:50 -0500, James Knott wrote:
Those memory/drives, can they stand infinite write cycles? Because flash memories can't.
Mechanical drives can't either.
Of course they can. The limit is in the thousands of hours of usage, not in the write cycles. There is no wear on the surface or the head because of changing the magnetization. They don't touch.
Sure they do, at the precise instant the drive dies of a head crash. Of course, on rotating magnetic media, the read vs. write distinction is entirely moot and as you say, the lifetime is measured in hours during which those heads are "flying" over the platter. I'd be surprised if seeking were unrelated to the probability of a head crash, but still that's entirely apart from whether the purpose of the seek was to read or to write. I suppose if you conducted some massive study, you might be able to find out that when the head was writing that there was some minute additional deflection which created a tiny increase in the probability of a head crash (possibly also data-dependent, in that the relationship between the magnetization that already exists on the platter and that being imposed by the write operation would modify that (hypothetical) additional force on the head. What people don't often realize is that the aerodynamic forces on drive heads are really quite large and are balanced by a mechanical force on the head holding it in the proper proximity to the platter. That's why drives can operate regardless of their orientation within the gravitational field (or in zero G).
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Friday, 2008-12-26 at 19:36 -0800, Kai Ponte wrote:
My only major complaint about laptops is that they're generallly fitted with slower (5400rpm) drives than desktops. My wife's main destop (win2K) has two 10,000 rpm scsi drives with one for the OS and swap and the other for data.
I wonder if the 5400rpm ones are more robust.
And, now that I think, I wonder if they could make them with variable speed... speed up when the OS requests it or the usage is higher. But maybe they need a certain speed for the head to fly on the bed of air over the surface. I mean, maybe it is calculated for a certain speed.
You'd also have to change the read/write circuits to handle the different speeds. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 26 December 2008 17:59:18 Carlos E. R. wrote:
Why pay the incredible premium for a laptop, let alone that of one with a gargantuan (for a laptop) screen, if you're not going to exploit its portability? For crying out loud, why put up with a laptop keyboard if you don't have to?
I know quite some people that buy a laptop simply because it doesn't take up an entire table. They take out the computer from the cupboard, use it for a while, then store it away again. Neat.
There's much to be said for 90 minutes of built-in UPS, as well. Probably even more than that, when it's idle. If I could get enough drive capacity in a laptop, I wouldn't mind replacing my server with one. Probably cut down on the electricity bills, as well. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2008-12-26 at 18:42 -0800, Jerry Houston wrote:
I know quite some people that buy a laptop simply because it doesn't take up an entire table. They take out the computer from the cupboard, use it for a while, then store it away again. Neat.
There's much to be said for 90 minutes of built-in UPS, as well. Probably even more than that, when it's idle. If I could get enough drive capacity in a laptop, I wouldn't mind replacing my server with one.
Probably cut down on the electricity bills, as well.
Very much so. If you need a computer to run full time at home with a reasonable load, a portable will use much less power. I wish desktops would use that kind of technology. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAklVmO4ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WoHgCfYp+s2vgu2ZKn3GJcoKIEc9zN xNkAnjc4ZpCREQlgjSanqH2F6a/PDScl =zZAU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Jerry Houston wrote:
On Friday 26 December 2008 17:59:18 Carlos E. R. wrote:
Why pay the incredible premium for a laptop, let alone that of one with a gargantuan (for a laptop) screen, if you're not going to exploit its portability? For crying out loud, why put up with a laptop keyboard if you don't have to?
I know quite some people that buy a laptop simply because it doesn't take up an entire table. They take out the computer from the cupboard, use it for a while, then store it away again. Neat.
There's much to be said for 90 minutes of built-in UPS, as well. Probably even more than that, when it's idle. If I could get enough drive capacity in a laptop, I wouldn't mind replacing my server with one.
Probably cut down on the electricity bills, as well.
I have both desktop & notebook computers here. Use them both, but mostly the desktop. At work I have a notebook, which I frequently take to customer sites. Both times that I worked at IBM, we were given ThinkPads, which we were expected to take home at night. The reason for that was not to work at home, but to ensure everyone didn't lose their computer, should a fire hit the building. Notebooks are essential for any business worker who works away from the office. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 26 December 2008 17:55:03 Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Friday 26 December 2008 17:05, Jerry Houston wrote:
There's our difference. This big 17" laptop stays at home. ...
What the hell??
Why pay the incredible premium for a laptop, let alone that of one with a gargantuan (for a laptop) screen, if you're not going to exploit its portability? For crying out loud, why put up with a laptop keyboard if you don't have to?
Because I can sit here (as I am now) in a comfortable recliner, with my feet propped up and an interesting show on the TV, and answer emails in comfort. And I can do most of my web browsing similarly comfortable. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Friday 26 December 2008 17:05, Jerry Houston wrote:
...
There's our difference. This big 17" laptop stays at home. ...
What the hell??
Why pay the incredible premium for a laptop, let alone that of one with a gargantuan (for a laptop) screen, if you're not going to exploit its portability? For crying out loud, why put up with a laptop keyboard if you don't have to?
...
Randall Schulz
Oh, Randall: You haven't used a Toshiba P35 before... They are fantastic boxes with beautiful 17" trubrite displays --- but light, they aint! I've used one sine 12/04, still have it, but I got another Toshiba P205D, 17" also, but light it aint either.... I'm working with 11.1 on the P35 now, and 11.0 on the 205D as my bullet-proof daily user. 11.1 is far from that category yet. Just getting kde3 smoothed out has been challenging. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Mark Misulich escribió:
Hi, just looking for a little information about 11.1.
Has anyone tried knetworkmanager on a laptop with 11.1 to see if it works?
Works here, KDE 3. -- "We have art in order not to die of the truth" - Friedrich Nietzsche Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/
Works perfectly here on X61. In 11.0 it used to have a problem where the knetworkmanager needed restart after a waking up from a suspend, with 11.1 this problem seems to have been solved. On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 1:55 AM, Cristian Rodríguez <crrodriguez@suse.de> wrote:
Mark Misulich escribió:
Hi, just looking for a little information about 11.1.
Has anyone tried knetworkmanager on a laptop with 11.1 to see if it works?
Works here, KDE 3.
-- "We have art in order not to die of the truth" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (17)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Cristian Rodríguez -
David C. Rankin -
James Knott -
Jerry Houston -
John Andersen -
Kai Ponte -
Ken Schneider -
Low Kian Seong -
Marcus Meissner -
Mariusz Fik -
Mark Misulich -
medwinz -
Mike McMullin -
peter nikolic -
Randall R Schulz -
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