Re: [SuSE Linux] Netscape goes to AOL
As I said, there are a lot of potential scenarios one could embrace. I would ask why AOL would keep MSIE IF they are purchasing Netscape?
The federal prosecutor mentioned a few days before the deal that if AOL didn't switch to Netscape and kept IE, than that is more than enough to prove that Microsoft has a monopoly in the browser market. I think AOL wants to keep IE not for its technical merits but to keep the antitrust case alive, and Case had trumpeted the decision as wanting to keep IE so AOL could stay on the desktop in return. Undoubtedly, Microsoft will call the whole issue into account. Christopher Reimer - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
Here's another one. Intel, Netscape and other have made serious investments in Redhat, a minority interest I believe. Wonder how this is going to shake out with the AOL deal, if there will be any consequences or not? ch "Christopher D. Reimer" wrote:
As I said, there are a lot of potential scenarios one could embrace. I would ask why AOL would keep MSIE IF they are purchasing Netscape?
The federal prosecutor mentioned a few days before the deal that if AOL didn't switch to Netscape and kept IE, than that is more than enough to prove that Microsoft has a monopoly in the browser market. I think AOL wants to keep IE not for its technical merits but to keep the antitrust case alive, and Case had trumpeted the decision as wanting to keep IE so AOL could stay on the desktop in return. Undoubtedly, Microsoft will call the whole issue into account.
Christopher Reimer
- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
chris herrnberger wrote:
Here's another one. Intel, Netscape and other have made serious investments in Redhat, a minority interest I believe. Wonder how this is going to shake out with the AOL deal, if there will be any consequences or not?
Of more pressing and immediate concern is surely this... If Jim Barksdale is to lose his executive role (Reuters news this afternoon) and the suits at AOL are effectively in charge, what will become of Mozilla? I'm off over to the Mozilla site now to have a look. See ya. Ralph -- rclark@virgosolutions.demon.co.uk Ralph Clark, Virgo Solutions Ltd (UK) __ _ / / (_)__ __ ____ __ * Powerful * Flexible * Compatible * Reliable * / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / *Well Supported * Thousands of New Users Every Day* /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ The Cost Effective Choice - Linux Means Business! - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Ralph Clark wrote:
chris herrnberger wrote:
Here's another one. Intel, Netscape and other have made serious investments in Redhat, a minority interest I believe. Wonder how this is going to shake out with the AOL deal, if there will be any consequences or not?
Of more pressing and immediate concern is surely this... If Jim Barksdale is to lose his executive role (Reuters news this afternoon) and the suits at AOL are effectively in charge, what will become of Mozilla? I'm off over to the Mozilla site now to have a look. --
Mozilla appears to have survived for now according to posts on Mozilla and referenced on /. ch - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, chris herrnberger wrote:
Here's another one. Intel, Netscape and other have made serious investments in Redhat, a minority interest I believe. Wonder how this is going to shake out with the AOL deal, if there will be any consequences or not?
Is it just me, or does the appearance of the DoJ suit, the Halloween document, the SEC filings, and the investment into RH by (w)Intel seem too much of a coincidence? Microsoft is a billion-dollar company looking for a way out of a monopoly lawsuit, and they have pretty much put a lot on making Linux look like the reason they are not. I fear that the business world is laughing their ass off at the naive little programmers who innocently have faith in a cut-throat corporate process. - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
chris herrnberger wrote:
Here's another one. Intel, Netscape and other have made serious investments in Redhat, a minority interest I believe. Wonder how this is going to shake out with the AOL deal, if there will be any consequences or not?
Heh,heh...in a few years we will probably all be complaining that you can't get software except in redhat rpm format, and they like to use a different directory structure, and we'll all have to switch. The guy who runs AOL said on NPR lastnight that the whole purpose of this is to get the whole consortium positioned to get a big share of the "online-shopping" market; which is going to take over commerce in a few years. Online shopping will become the standard very soon, as companies realize they don't need the problems of retail storefronts to do business. Heck the money they would save from shoplifting alone, would make the switch profitable. Expect giant distribution warehouses to get setup around the world, running inventories kept as orders go out, and mechanized order-picking systems. Start studying your cgi and java. - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, zentara wrote:
realize they don't need the problems of retail storefronts to do business. Heck the money they would save from shoplifting alone, would make the switch profitable. Start studying your cgi and java.
Ah, I disagree. I work for an ISP and I pretty much handle the "e-commerce" programming right now, getting stores online. Christmas 1998 is the testing ground for business-to-consumer commerce, hence the etoys.com commercials on network television. Many people believe this is dead, and for right now, I agree. Places like amazon.com and others are doing well, but they are the "Wal-Mart"'s of online shopping. Smaller businesses are finding out everyday that by the time they pay for software, pay for installation, pay for custom changes, pay for their website, etc. that they are not making their money back. The Big Thing right now is busines-to-business commerce, EDI transactions, etc. That's where corporations are going to save money, and it won't really affect small businesses that much yet. - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
Ryan Bagueros wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, zentara wrote:
realize they don't need the problems of retail storefronts to do business. Heck the money they would save from shoplifting alone, would make the switch profitable. Start studying your cgi and java.
Ah, I disagree. I work for an ISP and I pretty much handle the "e-commerce" programming right now, getting stores online. Christmas 1998 is the testing ground for business-to-consumer commerce, hence the etoys.com commercials on network television. Many people believe this is dead, and for right now, I agree. Places like amazon.com and others are doing well, but they are the "Wal-Mart"'s of online shopping. Smaller businesses are finding out everyday that by the time they pay for software, pay for installation, pay for custom changes, pay for their website, etc. that they are not making their money back.
You may be right for now, but I think AOL is looking a few years down the road. This rat-race economy cannot be sustained. America is "car and mall" happy, and small businesses still are catering to that money supply. BUT, if the US had to face up to it's waste of fuel, and streamline it's supply operations, things would change. It's sad that everytime the Wall Street averages falter, the fed has to lower interest rates. The "jig will be up" eventually. It is already cheaper for me to shop online, because I no longer bear the cost of vehicle ownership. Plus I can look around for the best price, I'm not limited to what the mall offers me. Personally I want more stuff available online. Foodstuffs, booze, etc. And I want to find deals. If a shipload of cheap rum just came in from Barbados, and bottles are cheap, I want a few. This can only be done with the Internet's quickness. By the time the stuff finds it's way to my corner store, the middlemen have tripled the price. Now that I'm all hot and bothered, :-); how about SuSe getting a complete WebStore going on their distributions. I guess that should be on the list for SuSe 6.1. :-) - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, zentara wrote:
You may be right for now, but I think AOL is looking a few years down the road. This rat-race economy cannot be sustained. America is "car and mall" happy, and small businesses still
Agreed, the only thing keeping our economy going right now are the outrageously over-speculated tech stocks. The bottom will fall out of this, I can guarantee it, probably after the new year. As you say, the "jig will be up." I think AOL sees the opportunity to unseat Microsoft and they're going for the kill. They have the Internet customer base, and Netscape/Sun has the OS/development/system type stuff. I think that if AOL succeeds, the "open source" world will thankfully lose a lot of its innocence and realize it isn't Microsoft explicitly that we hate, but any huge corporation that is in their position. - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
On Nov 25, 1998, Ryan Bagueros wrote:
[...] Smaller businesses are finding out everyday that by the time they pay for software, pay for installation, pay for custom changes, pay for their website, etc. that they are not making their money back.
The Big Thing right now is busines-to-business commerce, EDI transactions, etc. That's where corporations are going to save money, and it won't really affect small businesses that much yet.
I may not be able to offer any Linux-guru quality tech tips, but boy do I have opinions! I agree completely that B2B e-com is where the real progress is being made and the real bucks are being made and saved, as opposed to flaks' stories about consumer e-com intended to hype Net stocks. A small business with a real life store is doing OK just keeping above water covering his real expenses. He barely knows how to serve customers in his real life environment. How is he going to make more money at the margin in a market he knows nothing about, with a whole new set of costs to cover. My $0.02 of course. Howard Arons -- Powered by SuSE Linux 5.2 -- kernel 2.0.33 Communications by Mutt 0.93.2 - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
Howard Arons wrote:
A small business with a real life store is doing OK just keeping above water covering his real expenses. He barely knows how to serve customers in his real life environment. How is he going to make more money at the margin in a market he knows nothing about, with a whole new set of costs to cover.
My $0.02 of course.
I really don't expect established storefront operators to go on the web. Some will, but most will just try to hang on. Most stores are already hanging on by a thread. Young entrepreneurs will start alot of webstores soon. And savy shoppers will find they can get better deals thru these guys, and the floodgates will open. WebTV style integration with digital TV will make it possible for you to run an advertisement on TV, have a little box in the lower corner saying "BUY IT NOW". When you click on it, your credit card info,address, and other info will be automatically sent. Two days later, it's at your doorstep. I think that's where AOL will come in. They will start selling "Online Commerce Kits" With webstores that take credit cards, and is linked to UPS and FED Express shipping. All the business man will have to do is supply photos of his product, prices, and availability info. All this info will probably be easily entered in some X-windows program. He will probably get "10 or 20" choices of page styles for his store. Have you looked at the little dedicated web-server that Corel is selling on their website? It uses 15 watts, and does something like 250 Mips, comes with Netscape FastTrack Server. It's less than a thousand dollars. Very soon, a businessman will be able to buy a "blackbox", that basically is a webstore, ready to run. All you will have to do is plug it in to high bandwidth line, then start boxing up your orders as they come in. The UPS truck will pickup at your garage or warehouse, and package tracking info will be sent to customers. Of course AOL will set it up to use their internet connections. A penny here and a penny there, pretty soon you're rich. AOL,Netscape,and Sun together would be able to come up with a beautiful turnkey package. Of course, you would need a backup system too, so they get to sell 2 units. This is a very low-overhead way to startup a business. Storefronts cost alot to rent,insure, and man-fulltime. It is alot cheaper to setup a warehouse in an old barn out in the country somewhere. Of course the one drawback to this is local businesses will be sqaushed, but WallMart is doing a good job of that anyways. That is where the real problems come in---the social and political ramifications of people not supporting their local stores. Loss of jobs, etc. But Main Street died as the Malls came along, and I'm willing to bet that the Malls will die as cheaper online stores come along. They will probably survive by letting teens hang out there, and selling junk food and cheap trinkets. - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
At 05:09 PM 11/25/1998 -0500, you wrote:
Howard Arons wrote:
A small business with a real life store is doing OK just keeping above
water
covering his real expenses. He barely knows how to serve customers in his real life environment. How is he going to make more money at the margin in a market he knows nothing about, with a whole new set of costs to cover.
Man this is so true , its not even funny. Retial sales for small bussiness are hanging on a thread. Especialy the didpearing mom and pop stores. Every one now goes down to the "walmart". They have more purchasing power and more muscle flex with there vendors. for exapmle , most of the items customers return , are sent back to the manufactures. If they dont accept them , they take there bussines else where , or if they are forced to make large markdowns , they go back to the manufacture and force him to give them a mark down. Pitty the small shop who trys this. Shucks , if he wantss to refill a few sizes or order a small quantity , he is told , "we have a minimum , or We have to ship complete prepacks." The smaller shops are forced into finding a nich market , with narrow focus , And if they miss the ball more than once , they pay dearly.
I really don't expect established storefront operators to go on the web. Some will, but most will just try to hang on. Most stores are already hanging on by a thread.
Young entrepreneurs will start alot of webstores soon. And savy shoppers will find they can get better deals thru these guys, and the floodgates will open.
Yep the younger minds are more open to change and workining down a rapidly changing path. Further mopre they are allready comftoable with a keyboard and computer , and are therfore open to using it as just another tool. This is just starting to come out of the closet. Once it comes out , life will be much eisier, especialy for the smaller do it your self shops , os small shop who is using a student or someone they know to throw it tiogether. Yeh , try telling them how much a cunsultent cost , and they drop on the floor.
Have you looked at the little dedicated web-server that Corel is selling on their website? It uses 15 watts, and does something like 250 Mips, comes with Netscape FastTrack Server. It's less than a thousand dollars. Very soon, a businessman will be able to buy a "blackbox", that basically is a webstore, ready to run. All you will have to do is plug it in to high bandwidth line,
Oh yeh , just wiat for adsl or cable modems , then this comes as a trealy option. Then you can realy work out of your house , or garage. Untill thwen we are stuck with the all in one solutions pu u8p on isps servers, here they some how get you the data.
then start boxing up your orders as they come in. The UPS truck will pickup at your garage or warehouse, and package tracking info will be sent to customers.
This is a very low-overhead way to startup a business. Storefronts cost alot to rent,insure, and man-fulltime. It is alot cheaper to setup a warehouse in an old barn out in the country somewhere.
The only thingf about the web is the persona;l interaction. Its still nice to go in and feel the goods , How meny of you have walked inot Barns and Noble and leafed throght the books , then gone home and ordered them from Amazon.com
Of course the one drawback to this is local businesses will be sqaushed, but WallMart is doing a good job of that anyways. That is where the real problems come in---the social and political ramifications of people not supporting their local stores. Loss of jobs, etc. But Main Street died as the Malls came along, and I'm willing to bet that the Malls will die as cheaper online stores come along. They will probably survive by letting teens hang out there, and selling junk food and cheap trinkets. - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
In light of linuxs free nature , does this make it more suitable for e comerce ? is there enogh support avialable ? Thanks Samy
On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, zentara wrote:
realize they don't need the problems of retail storefronts to do business. Heck the money they would save from shoplifting alone, would make the switch profitable. Start studying your cgi and java.
Ah, I disagree. I work for an ISP and I pretty much handle the "e-commerce" programming right now, getting stores online. Christmas 1998 is the testing ground for business-to-consumer commerce, hence the etoys.com commercials on network television. Many people believe this is dead, and for right now, I agree. Places like amazon.com and others are doing well, but they are the "Wal-Mart"'s of online shopping. Smaller businesses are finding out everyday that by the time they pay for software, pay for installation, pay for custom changes, pay for their website, etc. that they are not making their money back.
The Big Thing right now is busines-to-business commerce, EDI transactions, etc. That's where corporations are going to save money, and it won't really affect small businesses that much yet.
- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
zentara wrote:
chris herrnberger wrote:
Here's another one. Intel, Netscape and other have made serious investments in Redhat, a minority interest I believe. Wonder how this is going to shake out with the AOL deal, if there will be any consequences or not?
Heh,heh...in a few years we will probably all be complaining that you can't get software except in redhat rpm format, and they like to use a different directory structure, and we'll all have to switch.
The guy who runs AOL said on NPR lastnight that the whole purpose of this is to get the whole consortium positioned to get a big share of the "online-shopping" market; which is going to take over commerce in a few years. Online shopping will become the standard very soon, as companies realize they don't need the problems of retail storefronts to do business. Heck the money they would save from shoplifting alone, would make the switch profitable.
Expect giant distribution warehouses to get setup around the world, running inventories kept as orders go out, and mechanized order-picking systems.
Start studying your cgi and java.
Combined with Oracle's $1M challenge to MS, you might want to study cgi-SQL interfacing, too... My two cents. GEorge - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
participants (9)
-
chris123＠netcom.ca -
creimer＠rahul.net -
hlarons＠ComCAT.COM -
rbaguer＠freenet.columbus.oh.us -
rclark＠virgosolutions.demon.co.uk -
root＠localhost.localdomain -
samelash＠ix.netcom.com -
toftd001＠hawaii.rr.com -
zentara＠mindspring.com