Top or bottom posting or being a troll or otherwise posting to either list.
To ALL: First, I wish ALL guru's or othewise being an authority on all of this, would get together on whether to top or bottom. I have had one or more say they do not want to read through old information, but want new on top, and, then I get those who say the convention is to post on bottom! Well, it is obvious to me and to anyone who can read, that there is NO CONVENTION that is generally accepted! Secondly, I am NO TROLL, that description fits those who refuse to help, as per the additional message from someone in need that I included in one of mine!!!! I will post the way I have until someone can get all together and make sure which way it should be! As for my problems with Suse, I will state, again, but maybe in better words or wording, I am staying with SuSe 9.2 Pro as I am tired of the constant upgrade grind, and have NOT gotten full use out of it, yet! For everyones information, this is my third version of SuSe, but, because I am no way near mastering it and because it does NOT respond the way it is supposed to when certain information is fed into it, I am very frustrated at it. For instance, how to untar a tar or tar.gz, many have tried to give me directions over the computer and I do enter the outline as shown, yet SuSe keeps coming up either with "NO SUCH COMMAND" or freezes after I press the enter key after entering the info as directed! The really ironic part is it will not "take" an rpm, which I downloaded and tried to install and which YAST states it has, yet absolutely NO SHOW! I have had some good help from one individual, who must remain nameless per his request, plus my club SIG, but it is a shame the help is so uneven and that Suse itself has left so much to others, who do it for FREE and, again, I congratulate them on their ability. I am a college grad and a Vietnam Vet with 100% disability, and thereby hangs a tale of itself! :-(
On Tuesday 14 June 2005 12:24 pm, OldSarge wrote:
To ALL: First, I wish ALL guru's or othewise being an authority on all of this, would get together on whether to top or bottom. <rant snipped>
Uh, was there a question in that somewhere? -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing"
On Tuesday 14 June 2005 15:24, OldSarge wrote:
To ALL: First, I wish ALL guru's or othewise being an authority on all of this, would get together on whether to top or bottom. I have had one or more say they do not want to read through old information, but want new on top, and, then I get those who say the convention is to post on bottom! Well, it is obvious to me and to anyone who can read, that there is NO CONVENTION that is generally accepted!
On this list it's bottom posing. That is, follow the quoted text from the previous message with your reply. That is the traditional Internet convention. One company, which shall remain nameless, introduced a mail client that top posted by default, and made it difficult, or impossible, to change that default. The result is that users of that inferior product came to believe that top posting was the proper form. To quote one signature from a regular on comp.lang.c++ A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is it such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Secondly, I am NO TROLL, that description fits those who refuse to help, as per the additional message from someone in need that I included in one of mine!!!! I will post the way I have until someone can get all together and make sure which way it should be!
On this list, put your additions after the quoted material and anybody who give you grief about it will be wrong.
As for my problems with Suse, I will state, again, but maybe in better words or wording, I am staying with SuSe 9.2 Pro as I am tired of the constant upgrade grind, and have NOT gotten full use out of it, yet!
If troubleshooting installation or upgrade problems is not your hobby, you are probably better off upgrading when your current version becomes unsupported. That will probably make each upgrade more difficult, but they will be far less frequent. You will probably have learned a great deal between upgrades as well, so your ability to address the problems that do arise will be greater.
For everyones information, this is my third version of SuSe, That's "SuSE".
but, because I am no way near mastering it and because it does NOT respond the way it is supposed to when certain information is fed into it, I am very frustrated at it. For instance, how to untar a tar or tar.gz, many have tried to give me directions over the computer and I do enter the outline as shown, yet SuSe keeps coming up either with "NO SUCH COMMAND" or freezes after I press the enter key after entering the info as directed! The really ironic part is it will not "take" an rpm, which I downloaded and tried to install and which YAST states it has, yet absolutely NO SHOW! I have had some good help from one individual, who must remain nameless per his request, plus my club SIG, but it is a shame the help is so uneven and that Suse itself has left so much to others, who do it for FREE and, again, I congratulate them on their ability. I am a college grad and a Vietnam Vet with 100% disability, and thereby hangs a tale of itself! :-(
There are usually subtleties underlying the kinds of problems you are describing. Somewhere in the documentation provided with the distribution there is a section called something like "First steps with Linux" which explains the basics of working with a Unix-like operating system. I strongly advise reading that section, and trying the commands it discusses. As for what you have described a problems. If the tar command is not found, echo $PATH. You should see :/bin: in there somewhere. If the rpm is installed, but doesn't seem to be there, perhaps you installed the src.rpm instead of the application? As for the help being uneven, you are correct. But this is due to the fact that SuSE integrates many different packages, most of which they do not produce. Linux is a fast moving, and rapidly changing target. It will never be quite as coherent as the OS produced by the trillion dollar company, but SuSE Linux does more out of the box than that OS will do with 10,000 dollars worth of additional software added. -- Regards, Steven
Steven T. Hatton wrote:
On Tuesday 14 June 2005 15:24, OldSarge wrote:
To ALL: First, I wish ALL guru's or othewise being an authority on all of this, would get together on whether to top or bottom. I have had one or more say they do not want to read through old information, but want new on top, and, then I get those who say the convention is to post on bottom! Well, it is obvious to me and to anyone who can read, that there is NO CONVENTION that is generally accepted!
On this list it's bottom posing. That is, follow the quoted text from the previous message with your reply. That is the traditional Internet convention. One company, which shall remain nameless, introduced a mail client that top posted by default, and made it difficult, or impossible, to change that default. The result is that users of that inferior product came to believe that top posting was the proper form. To quote one signature from a regular on comp.lang.c++
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is it such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Secondly, I am NO TROLL, that description fits those who refuse to help, as per the additional message from someone in need that I included in one of mine!!!! I will post the way I have until someone can get all together and make sure which way it should be!
On this list, put your additions after the quoted material and anybody who give you grief about it will be wrong.
As for my problems with Suse, I will state, again, but maybe in better words or wording, I am staying with SuSe 9.2 Pro as I am tired of the constant upgrade grind, and have NOT gotten full use out of it, yet!
If troubleshooting installation or upgrade problems is not your hobby, you are probably better off upgrading when your current version becomes unsupported. That will probably make each upgrade more difficult, but they will be far less frequent. You will probably have learned a great deal between upgrades as well, so your ability to address the problems that do arise will be greater.
For everyones information, this is my third version of SuSe,
That's "SuSE".
but, because I am no way near mastering it and because it does NOT respond the way it is supposed to when certain information is fed into it, I am very frustrated at it. For instance, how to untar a tar or tar.gz, many have tried to give me directions over the computer and I do enter the outline as shown, yet SuSe keeps coming up either with "NO SUCH COMMAND" or freezes after I press the enter key after entering the info as directed! The really ironic part is it will not "take" an rpm, which I downloaded and tried to install and which YAST states it has, yet absolutely NO SHOW! I have had some good help from one individual, who must remain nameless per his request, plus my club SIG, but it is a shame the help is so uneven and that Suse itself has left so much to others, who do it for FREE and, again, I congratulate them on their ability. I am a college grad and a Vietnam Vet with 100% disability, and thereby hangs a tale of itself! :-(
There are usually subtleties underlying the kinds of problems you are describing. Somewhere in the documentation provided with the distribution there is a section called something like "First steps with Linux" which explains the basics of working with a Unix-like operating system. I strongly advise reading that section, and trying the commands it discusses. As for what you have described a problems. If the tar command is not found, echo $PATH. You should see :/bin: in there somewhere.
If the rpm is installed, but doesn't seem to be there, perhaps you installed the src.rpm instead of the application?
As for the help being uneven, you are correct. But this is due to the fact that SuSE integrates many different packages, most of which they do not produce. Linux is a fast moving, and rapidly changing target. It will never be quite as coherent as the OS produced by the trillion dollar company, but SuSE Linux does more out of the box than that OS will do with 10,000 dollars worth of additional software added.
To ALL, and Steven Hatton, in particular: Thanks to the above message I am convinced bottom posting is better, and, due to the fact I have a dual boot machine, I will bottom post on my Linux but the person on Windows wanted me to top post. Can't you people see just how schizoid that is? As for my other comments, I will try again, to spell out what is happening and what my equipment and such is. Mr. Hatton is the first person to give me the credit for being partially correct on what help is available and from whom. I am now going to go to my home on the desktop and note down everything I can and will post, in a lot more detail what and why, as far as I can determine. :-)
On 6/14/05, OldSarge
Steven T. Hatton wrote:
To ALL, and Steven Hatton, in particular: Thanks to the above message I am convinced bottom posting is better, and, due to the fact I have a dual boot machine, I will bottom post on my Linux but the person on Windows wanted me to top post. Can't you people see just how schizoid that is? As for my other comments, I will try again, to spell out what is happening and what my equipment and such is. Mr. Hatton is the first person to give me the credit for being partially correct on what help is available and from whom. I am now going to go to my home on the desktop and note down everything I can and will post, in a lot more detail what and why, as far as I can determine. :-)
2 additions only: 1. you may consider to trim your replays, there was no need to leave all your original post 2. in the list rules it IS written that for this list a preferred way is to bottom post and ... :) 3. Yeah, I know how hard is to convince the "other" users to look at the bottom of the email for your answer. I receive very often responses like "Hey, have you forgot to type in your answer ...?" :) Cheers Sunny
On Tuesday 14 June 2005 21:38, Sunny wrote:
3. Yeah, I know how hard is to convince the "other" users to look at the bottom of the email for your answer. I receive very often responses like "Hey, have you forgot to type in your answer ...?" :)
So you didn't trim enough ;) (And they didn't read the standard FAQ or the etiquette FAQ.) -- Bill
To ALL: First, I wish ALL guru's or othewise being an authority on all of this, would get together on whether to top or bottom. Bottom, but not just bottom, but trimmed to only what is necessary for understanding quoted, with replies underneath in a conversational style, meaning bottom. It is a waste of bandwidth to fully quote and either bottom or top post. This has been instructed on this list for at least 6 years (since I began). It makes the flow much easier to follow and more manageable. I am staying with SuSe 9.2 Pro as I am tired of the constant upgrade grind, and have NOT gotten full use out of it, yet! That is fine. It is your choice. It may be right for you in your situation, but certainly does not fit everyone. I enjoy the features and even the challenges of a new version, prefer to stay more up to date on the software I use (there must be reasons, i.e. bug fixes, that software is updated), etc. I think 9.3 is the best so far, even though
For instance, how to untar a tar or tar.gz, many have tried to give me directions over the computer and I do enter the outline as shown, yet SuSe keeps coming up either with "NO SUCH COMMAND" or freezes after I press the enter key after entering the info as directed! I must admit, I use Konqueror to untar, since it is so easy to use. Right click on the file, and choose extract to. Linux is all about choice, usually providing 10 ways to do anything. Just choose the one you prefer. The really ironic part is it will not "take" an rpm, which I downloaded and tried to install and which YAST states it has, yet absolutely NO SHOW! If you mean you used the yast install part of Konqueror, I found it did not work in 9.2 for me. I just used Kpackage, which worked as expected. Since I made a different choice, I also made sure to always run ldconfig and SuSEconfig afterwards, since this is automatically done by Yast but not by Kpackage. I am a college grad and a Vietnam Vet with 100% disability, and thereby hangs a tale of itself! :-( Agreed. I understand a bit more. Hope you understand attacking SuSE on
OldSarge wrote: there have been a few challenges along the way. Such is Linux and life for that matter. their hosted help lists is not a productive move. We all use SuSE by our choice, and are more interested in making it even better by any help we can offer rather than making things even harder for them as a company, or for the employees who I am sure have given much more than they have received. -- Joe Morris New Tribes Mission Email Address: Joe_Morris@ntm.org Registered Linux user 231871
Hi Joe, On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:26:46 -0500 UTC (3:26 PM -0500 UTC my time), you wrote in part:
I am a college grad and a Vietnam Vet with 100% disability, and thereby hangs a tale of itself! :-(
J> Agreed. I understand a bit more. Hope you understand attacking SuSE on J> their hosted help lists is not a productive move. We all use SuSE by J> our choice, and are more interested in making it even better by any help J> we can offer rather than making things even harder for them as a J> company, or for the employees who I am sure have given much more than J> they have received. He has done this exactly before, if you were here, during v8.1 Chastising SUSE for not helping, bla, bla, bla. In those days, he accused SUSE of being anti-American, as they were a German company. /dev/null -- "deja moo," the feeling that you've heard this bull before.
On Tuesday 14 June 2005 20:24, OldSarge wrote:
To ALL: First, I wish ALL guru's or othewise being an authority on all of this, would get together on whether to top or bottom. I have had one or more say they do not want to read through old information, but want new on top, and, then I get those who say the convention is to post on bottom! Well, it is obvious to me
Perhaps.
and to anyone who can read, that there is NO CONVENTION that is generally accepted!
Think again: http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q5043905/Suse-Linux-Etiquette-e.html It's not whether or not you can read (I think that's taken as read), it's what you read if you can. You should bottom-post, and trim quoted material to include only the parts relevant to your post. -- Bill
On Tuesday 14 June 2005 12:24 pm, OldSarge wrote:
To ALL: First, I wish ALL guru's or othewise being an authority on all of this, would get together on whether to top or bottom.
Since we're wishing here, I wish you would learn to use paragraphs. Your posts are very very difficult to read, one giant run on paragraph. Scott -- POPFile, the OpenSource EMail Classifier http://popfile.sourceforge.net/ Linux 2.6.11.4-21.7-default x86_64
It might also help the list as a whole if some people would learn to sit on their hands for a few hours before posting a reply. This post and its subsequent threads is full of frustration and intolerance. Vaild frustration from Old Sarge and intolerance from some other list members. Come on guys, this does the image of SuSE and Linux as a whole no good at all. Please, if you have a problem with what somebody else posts sit on your hands for a while then compose a toned down response for the good of the community. -- Take care. Kevan Farmer 34 Hill Street Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR
On Sat, 2005-06-18 at 12:27 +0100, Kevanf1 wrote:
It might also help the list as a whole if some people would learn to sit on their hands for a few hours before posting a reply.
This post and its subsequent threads is full of frustration and intolerance. Vaild frustration from Old Sarge and intolerance from some other list members. Come on guys, this does the image of SuSE and Linux as a whole no good at all. Please, if you have a problem with what somebody else posts sit on your hands for a while then compose a toned down response for the good of the community.
Kevan, Thank you for writing that. I was thinking the same thing. When I first read the message I was surprised that someone would care so much whether someone posted on top of or at the bottom of another message. What's the big deal? It is still a SuSE user (part of our community) needing help or posting a comment. Just my two cents. Jason
At 01:03 AM 19/06/2005, Jason Riker wrote:
On Sat, 2005-06-18 at 12:27 +0100, Kevanf1 wrote:
It might also help the list as a whole if some people would learn to sit on their hands for a few hours before posting a reply.
This post and its subsequent threads is full of frustration and intolerance. Vaild frustration from Old Sarge and intolerance from some other list members. Come on guys, this does the image of SuSE and Linux as a whole no good at all. Please, if you have a problem with what somebody else posts sit on your hands for a while then compose a toned down response for the good of the community.
Kevan,
Thank you for writing that. I was thinking the same thing. When I first read the message I was surprised that someone would care so much whether someone posted on top of or at the bottom of another message. What's the big deal? It is still a SuSE user (part of our community) needing help or posting a comment.
Just my two cents.
Jason
Personally, I usually post just underneath where the problem is stated, then the reader can see what item I'm relating my answer to, and as most writers have more than one question item it's also easier to work out what part it's related to. regards scsijon
participants (11)
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Jason Riker -
Joe Morris (NTM) -
Kevanf1 -
OldSarge -
Scott Leighton -
scsijon -
Steven T. Hatton -
Sunny -
Tony Alfrey -
William Gallafent -
yep