Also with Novell's recent focus of GNOME, what is going to happened to SuSE sponsored KDE efforts? Charles -- "It's God. No, not Richard Stallman, or Linus Torvalds, but God." (By Matt Welsh)

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:35:26 -0800 Curtis Rey wrote:

Perhaps it's time to look at Gentoo?  ... This Does not make me warm and fuzzy about the direction that OSS/Linux is going?

That or maybe it is time to start looking at HURD. At least we know HURD won't get coopted by the suits. Charles -- "I once witnessed a long-winded, month-long flamewar over the use of mice vs. trackballs...It was very silly." (By Matt Welsh)

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:26:18 -0500 (EST) "Robt. Miller" wrote:

I would guess that it's in Novell's best interest to keep the price of SuSE as low or lower than it is now.

Have you seen Novell's prices throughout the years? Charles -- "Never make any mistaeks." (Anonymous, in a mail discussion about to a kernel bug report.)

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Francisco Acosta wrote:

Novell, IFIK, knows nothing about low price.

That's true but I'm thinking that selling server OS's is the way for them to make money. The best way to facilitate this is for as many machines as possible to run SuSE. -- (o< |) //\ Powered by SuSE Linux /\obt. V_/_ Virusproof, Crashproof /\/\iller 9:43am up 21 days, 13:47, 18 users, load average: 1.01, 1.02, 1.01 processes 620012

Imagine the Novell train, running along the tracks with an old engine running out of steam. There are a lot of influential/monied passengers on board. As the train manager is getting really concerned about how things are shaping up another train overtakes it. This new train has SuSE written on the side, and is really moving. The train manager makes a decision and moves everyone over to the SUSE train and at the last moment he jumps over himself. The "novell" train now continues effortlessly down the track and the old train is forgotten. The new train still has SuSE written on the side. Are we the passengers waiting at the station ? Perhaps the novell community are more worried than we are ... Damian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Kaare Rasmussen" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [SLE] novell

Hi

...

I would guess that it's in Novell's best interest to keep the price of SuSE as low or lower than it is now. It's in their best interest (selling server OS's) for SuSE to become the new standard. 'Til I see otherwise, I'll take this as good news.

Novell could let SuSE and Ximian work together to make the best desktop ever. So there's a big opportunity for a very brght future.

OTOH, Novell has historically been excellent to make marketing disasters for end user software. WordPerfect, Corel, GroupWise, the Java Office Suite, ...

Lots of disasters and hardly any successes. Hardly a recipe for taking SuSE to new heights. The fear is the SuSE could be next in the list. OTOH, Novell has historically been excellent to make marketing disasters for end user software. WordPerfect, Corel, GroupWise, the Java Office Suite, SuSE (Provisional) LW999

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Don wrote:

well, the problem I have with this model is that IBM's power based systems are almost exclusively SuSe right now and in the near future...so you can bet Armonk is watching both of these really closely...

True. IBM can always buy the whole lot. -- (o< |) //\ Powered by SuSE Linux /\obt. V_/_ Virusproof, Crashproof /\/\iller 9:56am up 21 days, 14:00, 18 users, load average: 1.10, 1.12, 1.04 processes 620275

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:08:33 -0500 (EST) Don wrote:

just look at how they're ignoring OS/400....it's really sad to see that O/S going downhill....

Or OS/2. It was so much better than Windoze, but IBM marketing killed it. Charles -- "On a normal ascii line, the only safe condition to detect is a 'BREAK' - everything else having been assigned functions by Gnu EMACS." (By Tarl Neustaedter)

On Tuesday 04 November 2003 11:51, expatriate wrote:

Please move this thread to the OT section.

Why? Certainly Novell's purchase of SuSE is about as on-topic as your likely to get. Jesse

On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 06:57, Robt. Miller wrote:

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Don wrote:

...

well, the problem I have with this model is that IBM's power based systems are almost exclusively SuSe right now and in the near future...so you can bet Armonk is watching both of these really closely...

True. IBM can always buy the whole lot.

True too, but, who knows what communications have occurred between boardrooms? I see different fronts developing, ie Novell, IBM vs SCO, Microsoft. Seems like Novell will largely be learning more from SuSE, but SuSE gains dollar backing from Novell. Matt

On Tuesday 04 November 2003 19:17, Herman L. Knief wrote:

Let's hope it goes this way. The unfortunate part is that there are a number of "old school" execs at Novell that I am sure feel they exactly what needs to be done and likelihood that they'll destroy SuSE, just as they have pretty much destroyed all of their other acquisitions is a very real possibility.

Considering the fact, that Microsoft has more or less removed Novell from their marketplace. I don't think these old school boys, are the ones in control here, but rather visionaries, who see Linux and Open source as the future and see this as the opportunity to be on the leading boat, tomorrow. But, we'll see.

On Tuesday 04 November 2003 2:28 pm, Roberto J. Dohnert wrote:

Personally I hate this deal and I dont think it will end any better than the destruction of both companies. Novell has proven to me time and time again that they dont know what they are doing and I think this deal should be squashed while they still have time, unfortunately, no ones going to listen so I will say this, I will continue to be faithful to SUSE because of SUSE. I use SUSE for everything, from Webservers to running streaming servers to desktop to firewall. But I dont trust Novell, I will never trust Novell and I do hope that Novell learned from its many mistakes in the past and dont screw this up because for me this will be the last chance novell ever gets from me. To you SUSE/Novell guys, please do not cut retail distribution of SUSE Linux because i for one like having my CD's and DVD come on a box, downloading ISO's and FTP installs are for the birds.

-- To view my Linux help page and howto's goto

http://www.geocities.com/kane121975/

I have information on x86 Linux and PowerPC Linux

Greetings, I agree with you!!! I think that if someone from SuSE takes a little time to read all of todays posts they can have a clear vision of what users love about SuSE and fear about Novell... I don't want to be a linux orphan... I WANT SUSE! Cheers, -- Sergio Espinoza Dien linux@sergioespinoza.com http://www.sergioespinoza.com/ http://www.xtremecode.net/ Linux User #328168 *Delivered by Kmail

Charles and several others... Your emails have been coming thru with a attachment names FILE.BIN. My virus checker says it is clean but I am not willing to open it. Any idea of what is happening? StephenW Sarasota --- Charles Philip Chan wrote:

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:28:20 -0800 (PST) "Roberto J. Dohnert" wrote:

...

Personally I hate this deal and I dont think it will end any better than the destruction of both companies.

I am trying to be optimistic.

...

Novell has proven to me time and time again that they dont know what they are doing and I think this deal should be squashed while they still have time,

Yes. They have great technology though, but they are greedy. They priced themselves right out of the market. If they would have lowered the price of Netware, they would have won the PC network wars. Also, the Novell Office Suite fiasco was just comical.

...

unfortunately, no ones going to listen so I will say this, I will continue to be faithful to SUSE because of SUSE.

Same here.

...

But I dont trust Novell, I will never trust Novell

Don't blame you.

...

and I do hope that Novell learned from its many mistakes in the past and dont screw this up because for me this will be the last chance novell ever gets from me.

Definitely.

Let hope they don't screw up. A product with NDS running on SuSE Linux out of the box sounds interesting. Let hope they don't price themselves out of the market though. We do lack a good directory service.

Charles

-- We are using Linux daily to UP our productivity - so UP yours! (Adapted from Pat Paulsen by Joe Sloan)

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Charles Philip Chan wrote:

Can you see this one, this one clear signed. That is because we have signed the message with pgp-mime. Your mailer don't know how to handle that. It is just a text file with our pgp signatures.

Yes, I see it now. I visited the Mozilla Thunderbird site to see if I could find any mention of this issue. So far I don't see any mention of this problem. Can you please explain what you are doing with your messages so I can try to make a more intelligent bug report. Better yet, since you understand this problem, could I talk you into complaining to Mozilla Thunderbird development yourself? Thanks Damon Register

I downloaded the suse 9.0 live cd and it's great (I plan to upgrade to suse 9.0 from suse 7.3) But the old configure KPPP is still a problem. Is there a HOW TO on using dial-up to get on the internet or a HOW TO on winmodems and linux? I never really solved this problem before (I mainly use the internet at work), though, I know the issues involved. I know the Knoppix Forum has a solution, I don't know if it would applicable for suse 9.0. I try to gooogle the archives of suse-linux-e and came up with nothing satisfying. Some help would be appreciated.

I think we should calm down a bit here. On the PPC note, IBM has heavily invested in this deal, with $50million of shares, so they will not let Novell mess this up. IBM is not stupid, they know SuSE is their biggest ally in the Linux arena as far as R&D etc goes. And as for comparing SuSE on the desktop to the RH guys, don't bother, I doubt a decision has even been made regarding the whole thing yet. Remember, the guys at SuSE know the community, so does IBM. Novell will have a lot of people giving them good advice. Justin -- http://www.palmcoder.net On 4 Nov 2003, at 14:55, Don wrote:

well, the problem I have with this model is that IBM's power based systems are almost exclusively SuSe right now and in the near future...so you can bet Armonk is watching both of these really closely...

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, LinuxWorld999 wrote:

...

----- Original Message ----- From: "Kaare Rasmussen" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [SLE] novell

...

Hi

...

I would guess that it's in Novell's best interest to keep the price of SuSE as low or lower than it is now. It's in their best interest (selling server OS's) for SuSE to become the new standard. 'Til I see otherwise, I'll take this as good news.

Novell could let SuSE and Ximian work together to make the best desktop ever. So there's a big opportunity for a very brght future.

OTOH, Novell has historically been excellent to make marketing disasters for end user software. WordPerfect, Corel, GroupWise, the Java Office Suite, ...

Lots of disasters and hardly any successes. Hardly a recipe for taking SuSE to new heights. The fear is the SuSE could be next in the list.

OTOH, Novell has historically been excellent to make marketing disasters for end user software. WordPerfect, Corel, GroupWise, the Java Office Suite, SuSE (Provisional)

LW999

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mads Martin Joergensen" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [SLE] novell <snip>

And they will bring enough money for SuSE to survive in general. Guys, don't forget the fact that there a possibility SuSE would not have survived without this deal.

<snip> This is certainly worth considering. LW999

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, LinuxWorld999 wrote:

Whether Novell will take this advise is another matter. Lets hope they do.

LW999

I just hope NOVL doesn't use IBM's Marketing division....

They will hopefully use Suses marketing corps.. runep ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kaare Rasmussen"

OTOH, Novell has historically been excellent to make marketing disasters

for

end user software. WordPerfect, Corel, GroupWise, the Java Office Suite, ...

Kaare Rasmussen [4 Nov 2003 15:39:12 +0100]:

...

Novell could let SuSE and Ximian work together to make the best desktop ever. So there's a big opportunity for a very brght future.

Many people seem to miss that one of Ximians strongest assets is Red Carpet in its enterprise version. *This* is IMO the reason why Novell bought them, as its the enterprise market they're after.

Philipp

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

Year, I don't see where some of us small time users (with a few SuSE servers) can benefit from this takeover. Technically Novell will of course to able to add very interesting stuff to Linux, but I also beleive that their main focus will be larger compagnies. It COULD meen that products like SuSE personal and professional will loose their edge, and all development will go into the enterprice server solutions. The better they make these two versions, the less interesting the bigger siblings will become (for smaller compagnies at least). It all depends on how Novell handle things, but whatever they do, there will always be these conflicting interests, and they can not just focus on making the best possible product. We have used SuSE with great plessure for many years now (I think we started with version 5.0), but I now see us in a situation where we have to look around for other alternatives, just so if the smaller SuSE solutions lose momentum we can jump ship. I'l hate to do it, but if Novell don't find a way to solve this problem with conflicting interests, we have to do it. Bo

On Tuesday 04 November 2003 07:35, Curtis Rey wrote:

On Tuesday 04 November 2003 05:53, Charles Philip Chan wrote:

...

Also with Novell's recent focus of GNOME, what is going to happened to SuSE sponsored KDE efforts?

Charles

Perhaps it's time to look at Gentoo?

S*&T, I have a sinking feeling that SuSE will soon be raped by the suits and rendered all but unusable to the commoners such as our selves. Can anyone say SuSE Linux only on Novel Iron and only at Novell license costs?

This Does not make me warm and fuzzy about the direction that OSS/Linux is going? First RH and Now SuSE, and don't give me that BS about Fedora being just a community development of RHEL. It's a way to obfiscate development vs support. The community gets to do the bulk of the development and only paying/licensed customers get the support. Or in otherwords.. You do the work and will charge for the service - and never the twain will meet.

<snip> The acquisition of SUSE by "ANY" U.S. company is very B-A-D!. All companies in the U.S. fear Microsoft. Their business decisions, strategies, and implemented and marketed technologies are too heavily influenced by what Microsoft does or they think they will do. European companies have no fear of Microsoft and do not allow their businesses to be controlled by them. One of the main reasons SUSE has done well is because they are "NOT" a U.S. - based or owned company. Novel's focus is only on surviving. They are floundering in the surf and are grabbing for life preservers. SUSE, to them, is nothing more than one of many of these. They will hang on to SUSE until they find a bigger one and then it will be tossed aside like any other useless object. They have been trying for years to find a way out of their archaic technology base and they see Linux as the vehicle to do that. Let them buy Red Hat to squander. SCO is Microsoft bought and paid for. These lawsuits against Linux is nothing more than Microsoft up to their old tricks. Microsoft has laid out the game plan, provided the strategies, and provided funding with their so-called "license purchase" from SCO. SCO is dying and they know it. Their last technology conference showed their "new" technology which was two years old by current standards. The senario for them is to create as much FUD in the Linux market as possible and then file for bankruptcy, then be bought out by Microsoft, along with all of their technology rights. And if the stupid courts rule in SCO's favor, guess what technology and property rights they will own?!? This is the only line of attack that Microsoft has. There is too much momentum behind Linux and no one single entity for them to attach or squash. IBM and Novel are like surfers, waiting for that next, big wave. Right now, Linux is that wave. IBM has adopted and discarded more "great" technology over the years than any other company in the world. Linux for them is nothing more than the current new toy. When the momentum dies down, they will toss it aside just like they did PS/2, OS/2, and a host of other technologies. Novel will do the same. Linux is SUSE's livelyhood. SUSE, as a single entity, will fight much harder to keep Linux alive than any of the big U.S. companies. If the U.S. companies want to help the Linux movement, they should leave SUSE as an individual company and provide R & D funds and support, and aid in the marketing of the SUSE product. SUSE is our best shot at a Linux distribution that reaches from the home user to the corporate IT department. Leave it alone and support it as it stands. The only thing that will keep Linux alive is Linux, and the great people behind it that want to have and provide an alternative to the Microsoft monopoly. SUSE has a good history of listening to its consumers. If you are opposed to this acquisition let them know. Send e-mails to SUSE protesting this acquisition. Also send the protest to Novell. They do not listen to their consumers as well as SUSE does but every little bit helps. I have done both. You can do so at the following also: Press Contact: Bruce Lowry Novell, Inc. Phone: (415) 591-6523 E-mail: blowry@novell.com Joseph Eckert SUSE LINUX Phone: (203) 270-3711 E-mail: jeckert@suse.com Survey at Novel: http://www.novell.com/news/leadstories/2003/nov3/ This acquisition is "NOT" good for the Linux movement. SUSE is soon to be the biggest player in the Linux world. Red Hat is bailing out of the consumer market and Mandrake is still trying to find funding. SUSE is the best shot we have, but only if it remains as it is and continues to grow as a single, non - U.S. held entity. SUSE stick to your roots!!! Jack A.

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Mark wrote:

And now, for our viewing pleasure in the coming months, will all the other dubious dominos will start re-arranging themselves - Sun, Apple, petit Mandrake, AMD, Nvidia, etc. - while Big Bill Buddha sits there impassively, high above it all?

I doubt that Bill's sitting impassively right now and if he has a brain in his head he ought to be throwing one of his infamous tantrums as we speak. -- (o< |) //\ Powered by SuSE Linux /\obt. V_/_ Virusproof, Crashproof /\/\iller 3:37pm up 21 days, 19:41, 18 users, load average: 1.01, 1.02, 1.00 processes 628220

On Tuesday 04 November 2003 14:29, Mark wrote:

Jack Alderson wrote: [snip]

...

The acquisition of SUSE by "ANY" U.S. company is very B-A-D!. All companies in the U.S. fear Microsoft. Their business decisions, strategies, and implemented and marketed technologies are too heavily influenced by what Microsoft does or they think they will do. European companies have no fear of Microsoft and do not allow their businesses to be controlled by them. One of the main reasons SUSE has done well is because they are "NOT" a U.S. - based or owned company.

[snip]

Good points. As a Brit, I feel depressed that a really good slice of European IT (and there is precious little of it) has been swallowed by Uncle Sam. I like SuSE because they don't do Red Hat's big swinging "We are Linux" BS. Many of us Europeans prefer the low-key approach.

[snip]

Still let's be realistic. The only way forward for SuSE is to reinvent itself, at least to a degree, as an American company. Otherwise, they'll never be able to break into the world's most lucrative IT market.

[snip]

I'm an American, and as such I've been witness to the effects of what Microsoft's tyranical monopoly has on other U.S. companies both directly and indirectly. And their tactics discust me to no end. I agree that SuSE needs to advance but with the help of American companies not being purchased by them. I think the best way that American companies can help SuSE (or any other company in this same venue) is to provide financial investment, technical and development suport. In order to advance, SuSE (and Linux in general) needs access to internal standards in order to provide software interfaces and drivers that will allow them to tie into the larger legacy systems and infrastructures that these companies have developed over the years. I think these things would go a lot further to adancing SuSE and Linux as a whole rather than a takeover by one large American company that will stiffle some of SuSE's technology that has been developed; particularly that for the desktop. Some of this has been done but many companies still have fear of Microsoft retaliation and as a result do not provide any inhouse support for Linux. I think this will only become worse now that SuSE is pushed into obscurity by a company that has been beaten out on several fronts by Microsoft in the past. This will not instill confidence in these companies to break the strangle hold that Microsoft has on them and support other systems. The future is uncertain but I see this as a terrible blow to SuSE and the Linux community as a whole. Time will tell if Novell can prove itself capable of handling such a responsiblity. I doubt that they can. I hope I'm wrong. Jack A.

On Tuesday 04 November 2003 16:22, Terence McCarthy wrote:

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:29:09 +0000

Mark wrote:

...

Good points. As a Brit, I feel depressed that a really good slice of European IT (and there is precious little of it) has been swallowed by Uncle Sam. I like SuSE because they don't do Red Hat's big swinging "We are Linux" BS. Many of us Europeans prefer the low-key approach.

I agree.

...

Still let's be realistic. The only way forward for SuSE is to reinvent itself, at least to a degree, as an American company. Otherwise, they'll never be able to break into the world's most lucrative IT market.

I don't agree. SuSE does not need to re-invent itself- it's done very well as a European-centric organisation in America, (think IBM) which is only one market. I don't know the figures for IT spend world wide, but I suspect that emerging markets (Russia, China, India, for example - in no particular order) will be the best ones to follow.

I suspect that Europe as a whole is not far behind the US IT spend, and the emerging market, in say, India, could dwarf the US market on its own.

M$ dominates the existing, and current, market, especially in the USA, but also in most techno-developed Western countries. Outside the US, the existing, and more importantly the developing, markets are wary if not outright antagonistic towards the US domination (read, for the most part, M$).

Linux, and especially SuSE Linux has already broken into the world's most lucrative markets. We don't need another Red Hat.

Terence

Well said. SuSE was standing tall on its own and was showing good management with its inroads and contracts with the large U.S. companies. There was no need for it to be bought out by a feable U.S. company like Novell. Jack A.

On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 16:56, js wrote:

Jack Alderson wrote:

...

On Tuesday 04 November 2003 16:22, Terence McCarthy wrote:

...

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:29:09 +0000

Mark wrote:

...

Good points. As a Brit, I feel depressed that a really good slice of <well snipped>

Well said. SuSE was standing tall on its own and was showing good management with its inroads and contracts with the large U.S. companies. There was no need for it to be bought out by a feable U.S. company like Novell.

Jack A.

Grow up.

Now now, lets not get into silly name calling. Anyway, whats the address of the OT mailing list? Just waiting for CKM to kill this discussion soon, although very relevant it maybe. Until things start happening I am sure its business as usual for SuSE. 3 things could happen, could get worse, get better or stay the same. I think RH may have seriously misjudged though... Matt

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:36:53 +0100 js wrote:

This is the whole point. They have NOT done very well. They've stayed afloat based on customer loyalty

Yes, they've stayed afloat- customer loyalty isn't bought- it's earned.

and have only recently begun making inroads into various European government establishments.

But they have and are.

Their financial problems have been known in the financial sector for some time now, and a year ago all the buzz was whether or not they would survive. This was no joke.

No, but to quote you " they've stayed afloat".

I'm just glad suse has a deal that ensures its survival for the foreseeable future.

So am I- if that was the only way to go.

Since I love SuSE as an OS and not as a girlfriend or uncle, I don't have an emotional attachment like some do. This is my fourth distro. I've moved on from others when they didn't innovate or conduct themselves in a business-like fashion, so I've learned not to get any more attached to it than I would my favorite wrench. As long as suse makes a good product, I'll keep buying it but my world doesn't depend on it. It's a tool.

Yes, to a degree, in the same way Shakespeare is only a playwright, and Michelangelo is only a stone mason. There are two ways of looking at it: the purely utilitarian (it's a tool and I will only support it as long as it serves me well), and the holistic. Like the "Fair Trade" movement, this latter also represents something more, an idea, a vision, an enhancement to the way in which we live, a way we can contribute, as well as consume. People need more than utiltarianism. Terence

On Tuesday 04 November 2003 21:29, Mark wrote:

Still let's be realistic. The only way forward for SuSE is to reinvent itself, at least to a degree, as an American company. Otherwise, they'll never be able to break into the world's most lucrative IT market.

Let's be realistic, for a German company to "reinvent" itself as an American company as you said, may turn both ways, as some have suggested. We're att crossroads, not just in the IT world, where one party is getting old and shaggy and about to leave the arena, while the younger has a chance to become big. It wouldn't be unheard of, that the *older* would use tactics to remove the younger competition. That might be the case, if we were talking US vs. Europe here. But in this case, I doubt there's any motivation of that sort on either side.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Long" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [SLE] novell

On Tuesday 04 November 2003 07:38, Rob Sell wrote:

...

Jeez at first I thought you were trolling... from the site

"Novell Acquires SUSE LINUX With the open source expertise of SUSE LINUX and Novell's award-winning networking solutions and services, Novell can now deliver enterprise-class service and support for Linux from the server to the desktop."

I'm not sure if this is good or bad for SuSE and/or users.

O H M Y G O O D N E S S !!!

<snip> Oh well, the rumours were true. SuSE Linux that we have come to know and love is or will be owned by Novell. This certainly makes me jittery, and unhappy. :( Perhaps it is time to evalulate "Linux From Scratch". :) Looks like SuSE Linux 9.0 will be a "Classic" as being the last version issued under SuSE's own colours. Future versions will be from a Novell-owned company. Could the name be changed from SuSE Linux to Novell Linux? LW999

Lets just hope that they don't start shoving gnome at the users over kde, like redhat did...

If course Red Hat were always going to push GNOME, they funded a large part of it's early development, in the same way that SuSE have traditionally funded KDE hackers. What I hope is that this could mean that SuSE start to take GNOME seriously. It would be nice if the two desktops were equal partners in the distro - wouldn't that be novel? (or Novell ;) ) Who knows, it might even mean that in future, XD on SuSE might suck less James -- James Ogley, Webmaster, Rubber Turnip james@rubberturnip.org.uk http://www.rubberturnip.org.uk Jabber: riggwelter@myjabber.net Using Free Software since 1994, running GNU/Linux (SuSE 9.0) GNOME updates for SuSE: http://www.usr-local-bin.org

Would this be a way to save Suse from software patents.

CWSIV Well, I have been wondering along those lines myself. The thing that came to mind was that perhaps some sort of situation is present wherein Novell might have in regards to Unix patents. Pair this with a decent investment by IBM in Novell stock and the Whole SCO thing. IANAL but I have been curious as to

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 05 November 2003 12:52, Carl William Spitzer IV wrote: the language in the agreement when Novell sold whatever Unix it did to SCO. This could also be a way for SuSE to actually be able to ride the coattails, as it were, by using some of Novell's holdings as well. The access to new market channels, ISV's, OEM's, etc.., that they take advantage of. Maybe there will be a new level of inroads that SuSE and Novell can jointly capitalize on. As someone else pointed out, Many of SuSE's deals have been base on a full range of offerings. Taken the Munich case as an example. The contract is for both "back" and "front" end products and services. I just can't see the sense in converting wholey to big iron and only backend products. Yes the backend is very profitable and is somewhat sustainable revenue stream. Especially in light of licenses and services contracts, as well as long term enterprise contracts (read 3 to 5 years). Land a nice size enterprise deal and your have something relatively long term to build on. Cheers, Curtis. - -- Those who throw objects at the crocodiles will be asked to retrieve them. NOTICE TO SPAMMERS: NO TRESPASSING. Violators will be shot. Survivors will be shot again. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/qZLdiqnGhdjCOJsRArWEAJoDCl2xlriG7AR5hXy0ahdWEcvYRACfUI3p HTkNxBeZ8k9qYC+C0YuzBtM= =kCL9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----