I'm thinking of getting a GCS78 8-port KVM switch from Iogear. http://www.iogear.com/main.php?loc=product&Item=GCS78KIT&name=8-Port%20KVM%20Switch%20Kit%20,%20PS/2,%20w/KVM%20Cables Anyone have any first hand knowledge of the company or the switch. I'm going to have a mix of Windows and SUSE behind the switch. I'm hoping it will handle the mouse well enough that I can run X occasionally behind it, but I can live with CLI only. I definately need the mouse to work well in Windows. Thanks -- Greg Freemyer The Norcross Group Forensics for the 21st Century
Greg Freemyer wrote:
I'm thinking of getting a GCS78 8-port KVM switch from Iogear.
Anyone have any first hand knowledge of the company or the switch.
I'm going to have a mix of Windows and SUSE behind the switch.
I'm hoping it will handle the mouse well enough that I can run X occasionally behind it, but I can live with CLI only. I definately need the mouse to work well in Windows.
Thanks
Can you get a USB version? PS/2 switches tend to mess up the mouse, if Z-axis is used. BTW, you might also consider X over the network.
On 5/26/06, James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> wrote:
Greg Freemyer wrote:
I'm thinking of getting a GCS78 8-port KVM switch from Iogear.
Anyone have any first hand knowledge of the company or the switch.
I'm going to have a mix of Windows and SUSE behind the switch.
I'm hoping it will handle the mouse well enough that I can run X occasionally behind it, but I can live with CLI only. I definately need the mouse to work well in Windows.
Thanks
Can you get a USB version? PS/2 switches tend to mess up the mouse, if Z-axis is used.
BTW, you might also consider X over the network.
I guess I should think about that. I never even think about USB mice for some reason. Do the KVMs with USB mice work good with most models of KVM? Any issues getting into BIOS etc. with a USB mice? I really haven't used them much. And I do use FreeNX all the time, but if I need to be at the machine, I use a KVM. Greg -- Greg Freemyer The Norcross Group Forensics for the 21st Century
I'm thinking of getting a GCS78 8-port KVM switch from Iogear.
http://www.iogear.com/main.php?loc=product&Item=GCS78KIT&name=8-Port
%20KVM%20Switch%20Kit%20,%20PS/2,%20w/KVM%20Cables
Anyone have any first hand knowledge of the company or the switch.
I'm going to have a mix of Windows and SUSE behind the switch.
I'm hoping it will handle the mouse well enough that I can run X occasionally behind it, but I can live with CLI only. I definately need the mouse to work well in Windows.
Thanks
Can you get a USB version? PS/2 switches tend to mess up the mouse, if Z-axis is used.
BTW, you might also consider X over the network.
I guess I should think about that. I never even think about USB mice for some reason.
Do the KVMs with USB mice work good with most models of KVM? Any issues getting into BIOS etc. with a USB mice? I really haven't used them much.
And I do use FreeNX all the time, but if I need to be at the machine, I use a KVM.
Greg
I have had horrible luck with 2 USB KVM's from Belkin this past week with a Windows and a SuSE box connected to it. I end up losing both mouse and keyboard functionality on one of either of the boxes. I prefer PS2 actually and do have a better PS2 KVM but on one of the desktops there's no PS2 ports (a Dell GX280)!! What were they thinking... Anyway, I don't know anything about IOGear, however, I would recommend staying away from Belkin. I've never liked them in the first place but my employer purchases them.
On Friday 26 May 2006 6:22 pm, Warren Crigger wrote:
I'm thinking of getting a GCS78 8-port KVM switch from Iogear.
Greg
I have had horrible luck with 2 USB KVM's from Belkin this past week with a Windows and a SuSE box connected to it. I end up losing both mouse and keyboard functionality on one of either of the boxes.
I prefer PS2 actually and do have a better PS2 KVM but on one of the desktops there's no PS2 ports (a Dell GX280)!! What were they thinking...
Anyway, I don't know anything about IOGear, however, I would recommend staying away from Belkin. I've never liked them in the first place but my employer purchases them.
Totally agree with the Belkin assessment. Avoid them. Have you checked NewEgg.com for reviews of this IOgear switch? Stan
Warren Crigger wrote:
I prefer PS2 actually and do have a better PS2 KVM but on one of the desktops there's no PS2 ports (a Dell GX280)!! What were they thinking...
I think you're likely to find more and more cases like that. The original IMB PC-AT keyboard DIN connector got replaced by the PS2 mini-DIN, and the PS2 will eventually be replaced by USB. The original serial mouse got replaced by the PS2 mouse, and that'll very likely get replaced by the USB mouse. /Per Jessen, Zürich
Per Jessen wrote:
Warren Crigger wrote:
I prefer PS2 actually and do have a better PS2 KVM but on one of the desktops there's no PS2 ports (a Dell GX280)!! What were they thinking...
I think you're likely to find more and more cases like that. The original IMB PC-AT keyboard DIN connector got replaced by the PS2 mini-DIN, and the PS2 will eventually be replaced by USB. The original serial mouse got replaced by the PS2 mouse, and that'll very likely get replaced by the USB mouse.
Were the first mice serial? My first mouse was a Logitec bus mouse, with it's own controller. Later, I had an ATI video card, that supported a Logitek bus mouse.
James Knott wrote:
Per Jessen wrote:
I think you're likely to find more and more cases like that. The original IMB PC-AT keyboard DIN connector got replaced by the PS2 mini-DIN, and the PS2 will eventually be replaced by USB. The original serial mouse got replaced by the PS2 mouse, and that'll very likely get replaced by the USB mouse.
Were the first mice serial? My first mouse was a Logitec bus mouse, with it's own controller. Later, I had an ATI video card, that supported a Logitek bus mouse.
I don't think I've ever had/used a bus-mouse, but I think bus/serial mice were probably used around the same time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_mouse /Per Jessen, Zürich
Per Jessen wrote:
James Knott wrote:
Per Jessen wrote:
I think you're likely to find more and more cases like that. The original IMB PC-AT keyboard DIN connector got replaced by the PS2 mini-DIN, and the PS2 will eventually be replaced by USB. The original serial mouse got replaced by the PS2 mouse, and that'll very likely get replaced by the USB mouse. Were the first mice serial? My first mouse was a Logitec bus mouse, with it's own controller. Later, I had an ATI video card, that supported a Logitek bus mouse.
I don't think I've ever had/used a bus-mouse, but I think bus/serial mice were probably used around the same time.
IIRC, the bus mouse came first and the serial mouse was developed to eliminate the cost of the dedicated mouse controller.
On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 19:22 -0400, Warren Crigger
I have had horrible luck with 2 USB KVM's from Belkin this past week with a Windows and a SuSE box connected to it. I end up losing both mouse and keyboard functionality on one of either of the boxes.
Try <cntl><alt> F1 <cntl><alt> F7 to force recognition. -- ___ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ | | | | [__ | | | |___ |_|_| ___] | \/
Greg Freemyer wrote:
Do the KVMs with USB mice work good with most models of KVM? Any issues getting into BIOS etc. with a USB mice? I really haven't used them much.
I haven't any experience with a USB switch, but I've heard they don't have the same mouse problem. How often do you use a mouse in the BIOS settings?
On 5/26/06, James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> wrote:
Greg Freemyer wrote:
Do the KVMs with USB mice work good with most models of KVM? Any issues getting into BIOS etc. with a USB mice? I really haven't used them much.
I haven't any experience with a USB switch, but I've heard they don't have the same mouse problem. How often do you use a mouse in the BIOS settings?
I could be all wet, but I _assumed_ that KVMs either had ps/2 keyboard/mice or they had usb keyboard/mice. Are you implying that KVMs with usb mice would still have ps/2 keyboards? I guess I need to do a little more research. Greg
Greg Freemyer wrote:
On 5/26/06, James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> wrote:
Greg Freemyer wrote:
Do the KVMs with USB mice work good with most models of KVM? Any issues getting into BIOS etc. with a USB mice? I really haven't used them much.
I haven't any experience with a USB switch, but I've heard they don't have the same mouse problem. How often do you use a mouse in the BIOS settings?
I could be all wet, but I _assumed_ that KVMs either had ps/2 keyboard/mice or they had usb keyboard/mice. Are you implying that KVMs with usb mice would still have ps/2 keyboards?
No, I'm not. You'd need an adapter to do that.
I guess I need to do a little more research.
Greg
On 27/05/06, James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> wrote:
Greg Freemyer wrote:
On 5/26/06, James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> wrote:
Greg Freemyer wrote:
Do the KVMs with USB mice work good with most models of KVM? Any issues getting into BIOS etc. with a USB mice? I really haven't used them much.
I haven't any experience with a USB switch, but I've heard they don't have the same mouse problem. How often do you use a mouse in the BIOS settings?
I could be all wet, but I _assumed_ that KVMs either had ps/2 keyboard/mice or they had usb keyboard/mice. Are you implying that KVMs with usb mice would still have ps/2 keyboards?
No, I'm not. You'd need an adapter to do that.
I guess I need to do a little more research.
Greg
There are some KVM's on the market that have both USB capability and ps/2 ports. Indeed, there are some that also have the older DIN style port in addition. These last are pretty rare nowadays though. Have you tried checking out eBay? They can be picked up very cheaply on there in whichever country you reside. -- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== PLEASE DON'T drink and drive it's not clever, it's just stupid. Kevan Farmer Linux user #373362 Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR
On Sun May 28 2006 04:27, Kevanf1 wrote:
On 27/05/06, James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> wrote:
Greg Freemyer wrote:
On 5/26/06, James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> wrote:
Greg Freemyer wrote:
Do the KVMs with USB mice work good with most models of KVM? Any issues getting into BIOS etc. with a USB mice? I really haven't used them much.
I haven't any experience with a USB switch, but I've heard they don't have the same mouse problem. How often do you use a mouse in the BIOS settings?
I could be all wet, but I _assumed_ that KVMs either had ps/2 keyboard/mice or they had usb keyboard/mice. Are you implying that KVMs with usb mice would still have ps/2 keyboards?
No, I'm not. You'd need an adapter to do that.
I guess I need to do a little more research.
Greg
There are some KVM's on the market that have both USB capability and ps/2 ports. Indeed, there are some that also have the older DIN style port in addition. These last are pretty rare nowadays though.
Have you tried checking out eBay? They can be picked up very cheaply on there in whichever country you reside. -- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== PLEASE DON'T drink and drive it's not clever, it's just stupid.
Kevan Farmer
Linux user #373362
Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR I use a 2 port kvm for a dos box and a linux box, each on different networks. Unfortunately the kvm does not seem to pass enough current to operate my optical mouse, whether I use USB or PS2 (it comes with a converter connector.
Thoughts? Rolling balls don't make it anymore. -- John R. Sowden AMERICAN SENTRY SYSTEMS, INC. Residential & Commercial Alarm Service UL Listed Central Station Serving the San Francisco Bay Area Since 1967 mail@americansentry.net www.americansentry.net
John R. Sowden wrote:
On Sun May 28 2006 04:27, Kevanf1 wrote:
Greg Freemyer wrote:
On 5/26/06, James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> wrote:
Greg Freemyer wrote:
Do the KVMs with USB mice work good with most models of KVM? Any issues getting into BIOS etc. with a USB mice? I really haven't used them much. I haven't any experience with a USB switch, but I've heard they don't have the same mouse problem. How often do you use a mouse in the BIOS settings? I could be all wet, but I _assumed_ that KVMs either had ps/2 keyboard/mice or they had usb keyboard/mice. Are you implying that KVMs with usb mice would still have ps/2 keyboards? No, I'm not. You'd need an adapter to do that.
I guess I need to do a little more research.
Greg There are some KVM's on the market that have both USB capability and
On 27/05/06, James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> wrote: ps/2 ports. Indeed, there are some that also have the older DIN style port in addition. These last are pretty rare nowadays though.
Have you tried checking out eBay? They can be picked up very cheaply on there in whichever country you reside. -- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== PLEASE DON'T drink and drive it's not clever, it's just stupid.
Kevan Farmer
Linux user #373362
Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR I use a 2 port kvm for a dos box and a linux box, each on different networks. Unfortunately the kvm does not seem to pass enough current to operate my optical mouse, whether I use USB or PS2 (it comes with a converter connector.
Thoughts? Rolling balls don't make it anymore.
Perhaps a powered hub between switch and mouse?
On Sunday, May 28, 2006 @ 7:37 AM, John Sowden wrote:
On Sun May 28 2006 04:27, Kevanf1 wrote:
On 27/05/06, James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> wrote:
Greg Freemyer wrote:
On 5/26/06, James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> wrote:
Greg Freemyer wrote:
Do the KVMs with USB mice work good with most models of KVM? Any issues getting into BIOS etc. with a USB mice? I really haven't used them much.
I haven't any experience with a USB switch, but I've heard they don't have the same mouse problem. How often do you use a mouse in the BIOS settings?
I could be all wet, but I _assumed_ that KVMs either had ps/2 keyboard/mice or they had usb keyboard/mice. Are you implying that KVMs with usb mice would still have ps/2 keyboards?
No, I'm not. You'd need an adapter to do that.
I guess I need to do a little more research.
Greg
There are some KVM's on the market that have both USB capability and ps/2 ports. Indeed, there are some that also have the older DIN style port in addition. These last are pretty rare nowadays though.
Have you tried checking out eBay? They can be picked up very cheaply on there in whichever country you reside. -- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== PLEASE DON'T drink and drive it's not clever, it's just stupid.
Kevan Farmer
Linux user #373362
Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR I use a 2 port kvm for a dos box and a linux box, each on different networks. Unfortunately the kvm does not seem to pass enough current to operate my optical mouse, whether I use USB or PS2 (it comes with a converter connector.
Thoughts? Rolling balls don't make it anymore.
-- John R. Sowden
I have an IOGEAR USB KVM switch that I've had for 4 years. I use it with an optical mouse. I switch between a SuSE and Windows with it and have never experienced any problems with it whatsoever, on either machine. No mouse problems and no keyboard problems. Greg Wallace
On Sat, 2006-05-27 at 17:38 -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:
I could be all wet, but I _assumed_ that KVMs either had ps/2 keyboard/mice or they had usb keyboard/mice. Are you implying that KVMs with usb mice would still have ps/2 keyboards?
I guess I need to do a little more research.
The mouse I have is usb but I convert it to ps2 for the KVM. I like having my mouse recognized on boot not some time after. The KB is old 1/2 inch connector but converted to PS2 because I like the look and feel. -- ___ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ | | | | [__ | | | |___ |_|_| ___] | \/
On Friday 26 May 2006 17:45, Greg Freemyer wrote:
I'm thinking of getting a GCS78 8-port KVM switch from Iogear.
http://www.iogear.com/main.php?loc=product&Item=GCS78KIT&name=8-Port%20KVM% 20Switch%20Kit%20,%20PS/2,%20w/KVM%20Cables
Anyone have any first hand knowledge of the company or the switch.
I'm going to have a mix of Windows and SUSE behind the switch.
I have used 2 - 2port PS2 KVM switches by Iogear for over a year without the first problem switching between WinXP and Linux. I also have a 2port PS2 switch by Belkin which has caused me much anguish and grief... most frequently it does not switch between machines with the KB shortcut - it requires u use the switch built into the unit -- a BIG pain when it is in the floor. It sometimes loses the mouse also. And to add insult to injury; I paid $30 more for the Belkin switch. :^( Buy the IOgear KVM switch and be happy. Tom
On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 18:45 -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:
I'm thinking of getting a GCS78 8-port KVM switch from Iogear.
I have a different model which is based on embedded logic and uses a double tap on the scroll lock to trigger the switch. It works fine but some of the horizontal scrolling my mouse wheel provides does not work in legacy Windows. In linux its just fine except for needing to hack the zaxis line in xorg.conf -- ___ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ | | | | [__ | | | |___ |_|_| ___] | \/
To all those who are having problems switching the mouse between Windows and the SuSE XWindows session, I have successfully used the below procedure and it works EVERY time. I have a no name desktop 2 node PS/@ switch. Whenever I want to switch to Windows from Linux, then I make certain that the Linux is on CLI ie Ctrl-Alt=F2 before I toggle the switch. I can then 'work' in Windows and when I want my real OS back, I switch the switch and am greeted by a blank screen. I Ctrl-Alt=F7 and XWindows returns with full mouse capability. The key is that Linux MUST be in CLI mode before switching else you will lose mouse connectivity when switching back and possibly kb too. HiH, although with the comments on this list I will be investing in a IOGear switch as soon as financially possible. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On 01/06/06, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) <hylton@global.co.za> wrote:
To all those who are having problems switching the mouse between Windows and the SuSE XWindows session, I have successfully used the below procedure and it works EVERY time.
I have a no name desktop 2 node PS/@ switch. Whenever I want to switch to Windows from Linux, then I make certain that the Linux is on CLI ie Ctrl-Alt=F2 before I toggle the switch.
I can then 'work' in Windows and when I want my real OS back, I switch the switch and am greeted by a blank screen. I Ctrl-Alt=F7 and XWindows returns with full mouse capability.
The key is that Linux MUST be in CLI mode before switching else you will lose mouse connectivity when switching back and possibly kb too.
HiH, although with the comments on this list I will be investing in a IOGear switch as soon as financially possible.
I have been successfully using a Linksys KVM to switch between SuSE10/Knoppix/Kubuntu (dependent upon which drive I happen to have in at the time) and a Windows 2000 PC. The KVM is a simple block of plastic with leads coming out of it. It is not a nice looking switch box but it does the business and I have never had to go into the CLI in Linux to switch either way :-) -- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== PLEASE DON'T drink and drive it's not clever, it's just stupid. Kevan Farmer Linux user #373362 Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thursday, June 01, 2006 @ 12:56 PM, Kevan Farmer wrote:
On 01/06/06, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) <hylton@global.co.za> wrote:
To all those who are having problems switching the mouse between Windows and the SuSE XWindows session, I have successfully used the below procedure and it works EVERY time.
I have a no name desktop 2 node PS/@ switch. Whenever I want to switch to Windows from Linux, then I make certain that the Linux is on CLI ie Ctrl-Alt=F2 before I toggle the switch.
I can then 'work' in Windows and when I want my real OS back, I switch the switch and am greeted by a blank screen. I Ctrl-Alt=F7 and XWindows returns with full mouse capability.
The key is that Linux MUST be in CLI mode before switching else you will lose mouse connectivity when switching back and possibly kb too.
HiH, although with the comments on this list I will be investing in a IOGear switch as soon as financially possible.
I have been successfully using a Linksys KVM to switch between SuSE10/Knoppix/Kubuntu (dependent upon which drive I happen to have in at the time) and a Windows 2000 PC. The KVM is a simple block of plastic with leads coming out of it. It is not a nice looking switch box but it does the business and I have never had to go into the CLI in Linux to switch either way :-)
-- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== PLEASE DON'T drink and drive it's not clever, it's just stupid.
Kevan Farmer
I have an 3+ year old IOGEAR MINIVIEW fully USB KVM switch that has never failed to switch back and forth between my two machines without any problems with either the mouse or the keyboard. Greg Wallace -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
I should have said mouse, keyboard and monitor. On Thursday, June 01, 2006 @ 12:56 PM, Kevan Farmer wrote:
On 01/06/06, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) <hylton@global.co.za> wrote:
To all those who are having problems switching the mouse between Windows and the SuSE XWindows session, I have successfully used the below procedure and it works EVERY time.
I have a no name desktop 2 node PS/@ switch. Whenever I want to switch to Windows from Linux, then I make certain that the Linux is on CLI ie Ctrl-Alt=F2 before I toggle the switch.
I can then 'work' in Windows and when I want my real OS back, I switch the switch and am greeted by a blank screen. I Ctrl-Alt=F7 and XWindows returns with full mouse capability.
The key is that Linux MUST be in CLI mode before switching else you will lose mouse connectivity when switching back and possibly kb too.
HiH, although with the comments on this list I will be investing in a IOGear switch as soon as financially possible.
I have been successfully using a Linksys KVM to switch between SuSE10/Knoppix/Kubuntu (dependent upon which drive I happen to have in at the time) and a Windows 2000 PC. The KVM is a simple block of plastic with leads coming out of it. It is not a nice looking switch box but it does the business and I have never had to go into the CLI in Linux to switch either way :-)
-- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== PLEASE DON'T drink and drive it's not clever, it's just stupid.
Kevan Farmer
I have an 3+ year old IOGEAR MINIVIEW fully USB KVM switch that has never failed to switch back and forth between my two machines without any problems with either the mouse or the keyboard. Greg Wallace -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
To all those who are having problems switching the mouse between Windows and the SuSE XWindows session, I have successfully used the below procedure and it works EVERY time.
I have a no name desktop 2 node PS/@ switch. Whenever I want to switch to Windows from Linux, then I make certain that the Linux is on CLI ie Ctrl-Alt=F2 before I toggle the switch.
I can then 'work' in Windows and when I want my real OS back, I switch the switch and am greeted by a blank screen. I Ctrl-Alt=F7 and XWindows returns with full mouse capability.
The key is that Linux MUST be in CLI mode before switching else you will lose mouse connectivity when switching back and possibly kb too.
This doesn't work here. -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
On Thursday 01 June 2006 06:32 am, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
with the comments on this list I will be investing in a IOGear switch as soon as financially possible.
I bought an I/O Gear mini kvm from Walmart: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2470632 The web site shows 29.57 and "online only," but my local Walmart had it in the store for 24.95. I have been using it to switch between two Linux systems. It has worked perfectly so far (about a week of use). Bryan *************************************** Powered by Mepis Linux 3.4-3 KDE 3.5.2 KMail 1.8.3 This is a Microsoft-free computer Bryan S. Tyson bryantyson@earthlink.net *************************************** -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
participants (12)
-
Bryan S. Tyson -
Carl William Spitzer IV -
Greg Freemyer -
Greg Wallace -
Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) -
James Knott -
John R. Sowden -
Kevanf1 -
Per Jessen -
S Glasoe -
Tom J Owens -
Warren Crigger