Fwd: Returned mail: see transcript for details
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:51:33 -0700 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON(at)Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org> To: <suse(at)tlinx.org> The original message was received at Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:51:25 -0700 from Athenae [192.168.3.12] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <factory(at)lists.opensuse.org> (reason: 550 5.7.1 Spam identified (10.1/5.0)) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mx1.opensuse.org.:
DATA <<< 550 5.7.1 Spam identified (10.1/5.0) 454 4.0.0 Service unavailable
Reporting-MTA: dns; Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org Received-From-MTA: DNS; Athenae Arrival-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:51:25 -0700 Final-Recipient: RFC822; factory(at)lists.opensuse.org Action: failed Status: 5.7.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; mx1.opensuse.org Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.7.1 Spam identified (10.1/5.0) Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:51:33 -0700 Final-Recipient: RFC822; opensuse(at)opensuse.org Action: failed Status: 5.7.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; mx1.opensuse.org Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.7.1 Spam identified (10.1/5.0) Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:51:33 -0700 Subject: Re: New Tumbleweed snapshot 20210908 released!, and first try spammy bounce? From: L A Walsh <suse(at)tlinx.org> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:51:06 -0700 To: oS-fctry <factory(at)lists.opensuse.org> Well, gave me a chance to add a bit to the message: On 2021/09/10 03:00, Dominique Leuenberger wrote: Why are there 4 dates associated with the release(s) that go out? internal date: 0907 title date (in message) 0908 file date: 0909 actual message date 0910. Shouldn't any of those agree? ----Also, why did the first copy of this get bounced as *s*p*a*m*???? Haven't seen that before... Will have to try some other addresses to see if this one gets through or bounces... I mean what is possibly spammy about the below? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:22:46 -0700 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON=Ishtar-sc-tlinx-org> To: Postmaster-Ishtar-sc-tlinx-org The original message was received at Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:22:38 -0700 from Athenae [192.168.3.12] with id 18AJMagZ020964 ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <factory(at)lists.opensuse.org> (reason: 550 5.7.1 Spam identified (10.4/5.0)) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mx2.opensuse.org.:
DATA <<< 550 5.7.1 Spam identified (10.4/5.0) 454 4.0.0 Service unavailable ===============================
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: New Tumbleweed snapshot 20210908 released! Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:22:21 -0700 From: L A Walsh <suse-tlinx-org> To: factory-lists-opensuse-org References: <163126805338.15681.9955158119170188019(at)go-agent-stagingbot-7> I have a question about the date listed in the subject. If I look at the repomd.xml file in oss/repodata, on dl.os.org, I see a timestamp of 09-Sep-2021 13:48 (i.e. 20210909 , not 0908). Looking inside that file I see the cpeid having a value of 20210907! Thats 3 different values: the 7th in the file, the 8th on the announce, and the 9th on the file date. So why don't any of them agree? UmVwb3J0aW5nLU1UQTogZG5zOyBJc2h0YXIuc2MudGxpbngub3JnDQpSZWNlaXZlZC1Gcm9t LU1UQTogRE5TOyBBdGhlbmFlDQpBcnJpdmFsLURhdGU6IEZyaSwgMTAgU2VwIDIwMjEgMTI6 NTE6MjUgLTA3MDANCg0KRmluYWwtUmVjaXBpZW50OiBSRkM4MjI7IGZhY3RvcnlAbGlzdHMu b3BlbnN1c2Uub3JnDQpBY3Rpb246IGZhaWxlZA0KU3RhdHVzOiA1LjcuMQ0KUmVtb3RlLU1U QTogRE5TOyBteDEub3BlbnN1c2Uub3JnDQpEaWFnbm9zdGljLUNvZGU6IFNNVFA7IDU1MCA1 LjcuMSBTcGFtIGlkZW50aWZpZWQgKDEwLjEvNS4wKQ0KTGFzdC1BdHRlbXB0LURhdGU6IEZy aSwgMTAgU2VwIDIwMjEgMTI6NTE6MzMgLTA3MDANCg0KRmluYWwtUmVjaXBpZW50OiBSRkM4 MjI7IG9wZW5zdXNlQG9wZW5zdXNlLm9yZw0KQWN0aW9uOiBmYWlsZWQNClN0YXR1czogNS43 LjENClJlbW90ZS1NVEE6IEROUzsgbXgxLm9wZW5zdXNlLm9yZw0KRGlhZ25vc3RpYy1Db2Rl OiBTTVRQOyA1NTAgNS43LjEgU3BhbSBpZGVudGlmaWVkICgxMC4xLzUuMCkNCkxhc3QtQXR0 ZW1wdC1EYXRlOiBGcmksIDEwIFNlcCAyMDIxIDEyOjUxOjMzIC0wNzAwDQoNCg==
On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:57:59 -0700 L A Walsh <suse@tlinx.org> wrote: [snip] You missed the one address that is useful admin@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth wrote:
On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:57:59 -0700 L A Walsh <suse@tlinx.org> wrote:
[snip]
You missed the one address that is useful admin@opensuse.org
I take it there was an implicit question of why the posting got identified as spam? The reason being - please don't reply to Tumbleweed snapshot announcements _without_ changing the subject. It is unfortunately not so easy to get that message back to the poster. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (19.4°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes.
On 2021/09/11 01:00, Per Jessen wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:57:59 -0700 L A Walsh wrote: [snip] You missed the one address that is useful admin@opensuse.org
Not entirely, as I got this back in 1 response: Your mail to 'admin-auto@lists.opensuse.org' with the subject Fwd: Returned mail: see transcript for details Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. === I tried postmaster and I think that caused it to goto admin-auto, so I didn't know the list-specific address I did try the general, postmaster, which seemed to trigger the routing you say is useful.
I take it there was an implicit question of why the posting got identified as spam?
---- Well, sorta,
The reason being - please don't reply to Tumbleweed snapshot announcements _without_ changing the subject.
---- Why? [...**!!!***] it was in reference to the announcement, though...
It is unfortunately not so easy to get that message back to the poster.
=== it was NOT specifically to the person who's script was running. It's more of a general question to the list asking why are there 4 date-times associated with a release that are all different from each other. Two might be the same but for timezone, not sure, but 3 were definitely different. After trying to send that a few times, I was getting a bit peeved and wondering how a list that had never marked any of my posts as spam suddenly seemed to be marking most of them as spam. **!!!***--Wait, are you saying that because my topic pertained to the release announcement and, I logically used a subject responding to the release announcement, that having a correct subject for the topic in this case, caused the spam flag? That's horrible! It wasn't spam, and it was proper use of the subject. If that user doesn't want responses to that mail, that's fine, they can route any messages received on their machine to 'trash', but the message to the list was to the list, not them. If you check the original email, their email wasn't included as one of the addressee's because it wasn't something about their email that I necessarily thought was pertinent to them -- I only sent it to the list because that's where I wanted it to go. Usually, if I responding to a person's email, and I am responding to what they said (on a list), I will send a copy to both the list and to them with the intent that I was sending it to the list for possible comment, but was also responding specifically to something they said, so according to internet convention and general politeness, I also addressed the response to them as well. Now that is a courtesy that they can control by adding a "reply-to" field that excludes them, or by adding a filter on their end. It isn't something a list or ISP should mangle as it violates normal email RFC's and standards. Google, w/gmail and its other products demonstrates a penchant for violating such standards and will auto-delete duplicate emails that might go to a user. That causes me no end of problems as some emails goto the list, and some goto me, with the effect that any conversation isn't kept together, with following an email chain jumping back and forth between multiple folders on my machine: -- "Record (Sent)", the list-folder, and my "domain" folder. Even though people who send responses to me and the list, properly, end up w/their response to the list not appearing in my list box, but usually in my 'Domain' box as that gets sent directly to me and doesn't go through the list reflector and gets here first. Anyway -- auto-spamming based on a logical and useful subject seems very likely to catch normal users by surprise and doesn't seem to be very user-friendly?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 El 2021-09-12 a las 12:47 -0700, L A Walsh escribió:
On 2021/09/11 01:00, Per Jessen wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
...
**!!!***--Wait, are you saying that because my topic pertained to the release announcement and, I logically used a subject responding to the release announcement, that having a correct subject for the topic in this case, caused the spam flag?
Exactly, and it is intentional. Replying to that email with the same subject is forbidden by policy. Just change the subject. Don't argue :-) - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.2 (Legolas)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHoEARECADoWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCYT5sWhwccm9iaW4ubGlz dGFzQHRlbGVmb25pY2EubmV0AAoJELUzGBxtjUfVdYkAn3FtHXqneN/9FnKVZ/gL OE+UsfX/AKCYA8Nmtt1qMl/f8Pu6mvkQeeMjfw== =IJjq -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
L A Walsh wrote:
On 2021/09/11 01:00, Per Jessen wrote:
The reason being - please don't reply to Tumbleweed snapshot announcements _without_ changing the subject.
Why? [...**!!!***] it was in reference to the announcement, though...
It is the agreed-upon "netiquette" on the factory list.
**!!!***--Wait, are you saying that because my topic pertained to the release announcement and, I logically used a subject responding to the release announcement, that having a correct subject for the topic in this case, caused the spam flag?
Any posting with subject matching "New Tumbleweed snapshot [0-9]+ released" will be refused, which we do by identifying it is as spam, yes.
That's horrible! It wasn't spam, and it was proper use of the subject.
It is probably best to take this up on the factory list. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (17.1°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes.
participants (4)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Howorth -
L A Walsh -
Per Jessen