[opensuse] Making KDE the default desktop once again

Graham Anderson

28 Jul 2009 28 Jul '09

16:13

Frank Karlitschek has posted on his blog about the possibility of having openSUSE use KDE as the default desktop. http://blog.karlitschek.de/2009/07/lets-make-kde-default-in-opensuse.html This is an interesting question, historically KDE was the default desktop of SuSE, until what seemed like internal politics made a play to have GNOME pushed as the preferred option instead. From the outside one can only speculate what happened at that time but the end result is we have the choice of either GNOME or KDE at install time. The majority of the openSUSE user base uses KDE, this is not in dispute. Would it not then make more sense to have KDE as the default desktop? What do you think? Has having a choice of desktop at installation time brought any tangible benefit? Should openSUSE go back to using KDE as the default desktop or maybe you think that GNOME should be the default desktop instead? You can vote for this either way at the openFATE feature request Frank created. https://features.opensuse.org/306967 Cheers the noo, Graham -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Show replies by date

Lars Müller

28 Jul 28 Jul

17:25

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 06:13:41PM +0200, Graham Anderson wrote: [ 8< ]

...

You can vote for this either way at the openFATE feature request Frank created. https://features.opensuse.org/306967

Please vote _and_ provide reasons/ arguments. I see a main advantage in having a preselected desktop. It is one question less. This is no advantage to a long time Linux user. But it is one annoying question less to a new user. Long time users will be able to get into the desktop details dialog while the installation. Or they upgrade an existing installation where this type of questions isn't raised. Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

Carlos E. R.

20:25

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2009-07-28 at 19:25 +0200, Lars Müller wrote:

...

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 06:13:41PM +0200, Graham Anderson wrote: [ 8< ]

...
You can vote for this either way at the openFATE feature request Frank created. https://features.opensuse.org/306967

Please vote _and_ provide reasons/ arguments.

I see a main advantage in having a preselected desktop. It is one question less. This is no advantage to a long time Linux user. But it is one annoying question less to a new user.

I don't. I much prefer openSUSE to remain agnostic, as it is now, same as I prefer the state to remain agnostic. I find the idea of having a default desktop - any desktop - almost offensive. And about new users... let them choose! Linux is about freedom, and freedom requires choices. The sooner they start choosing, better. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpvXtQACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UqRgCfQv8cxFN0MS2f1poXe1zhK55Y orIAoJcjv9n8VE+dkZceLABHyb0f5Wcx =jl0R -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Sven Burmeister

21:41

Am Dienstag, 28. Juli 2009 22:25:48 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

I find the idea of having a default desktop - any desktop - almost offensive.

What about e.g. your browser?

...

And about new users... let them choose! Linux is about freedom, and freedom requires choices. The sooner they start choosing, better.

The reason for defaults is to help new users because they cannot make a choice. That's why there are defaults for the filesystem, browser, email- client, chat client, package patterns in general etc. A new user does not know what KDE or Gnome is, how should he make a choice? You could as well put a "feeling lucky" button there. Having a default does not decrease choice, it only increases usability for new users. It adds no click for users who chose a different desktop but saves one click and an uninformed guess for new users. Informing the user on that "chose desktop" page what KDE/Gnome etc. are, is impossible, you have to try them in order to find out. So if its about choice for new users, install all desktops by default to enable them to test them. If its about usability, give them a default selection as it is done for all other parts of the installation. As I pointed out already, just because KDE is selected there is still the choice to click on Gnome or any other option on that page. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Gabriel

29 Jul 29 Jul

00:15

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...

The reason for defaults is to help new users because they cannot make a choice. That's why there are defaults for the filesystem, browser, email- client, chat client, package patterns in general etc.

A new user does not know what KDE or Gnome is, how should he make a choice? You could as well put a "feeling lucky" button there.

How did you choose your desktop the first time?, did you know anything about any desktop env? If the user does not know, then let him investigate, search, ask. Why make the choice for them? Current desktop selection windows is not good too. Option buttons should be replaced by check boxes, and let the user install all desktops if he/she wants. I don't understand, this isn't the first time you kde's users are trying to make it default. Why? No the reasons given in openfate are just a mere excuse. -- Kind Regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Graham Anderson

00:33

On Wednesday 29 July 2009 02:15:16 Gabriel wrote:

...

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...
The reason for defaults is to help new users because they cannot make a choice. That's why there are defaults for the filesystem, browser, email- client, chat client, package patterns in general etc.

A new user does not know what KDE or Gnome is, how should he make a choice? You could as well put a "feeling lucky" button there.

How did you choose your desktop the first time?, did you know anything about any desktop env?

Yes of course I did, at the time and to this day, for me KDE is a more productive environment to use.

...

If the user does not know, then let him investigate, search, ask. Why make the choice for them?

Why not make the choice for them? The user surveys show that the type of user that chooses openSUSE is already knowledgeable about Linux. These people know they have a choice and will have no problem choosing an alternative. Less than 10% of the users are new users. Focus on what works well for the demographic that chooses openSUSE, that would be _KDE_.

...

I don't understand, this isn't the first time you kde's users are trying to make it default. Why?

The default was KDE previously until internal politics seemed to push GNOME where it was not wanted.

...

No the reasons given in openfate are just a mere excuse.

/facepalm -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Peter Nikolic

06:48

On Wednesday 29 Jul 2009 01:15:16 Gabriel wrote:

...

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...
The reason for defaults is to help new users because they cannot make a choice. That's why there are defaults for the filesystem, browser, email- client, chat client, package patterns in general etc.

A new user does not know what KDE or Gnome is, how should he make a choice? You could as well put a "feeling lucky" button there.

How did you choose your desktop the first time?, did you know anything about any desktop env?

If the user does not know, then let him investigate, search, ask. Why make the choice for them?

Current desktop selection windows is not good too. Option buttons should be replaced by check boxes, and let the user install all desktops if he/she wants.

I don't understand, this isn't the first time you kde's users are trying to make it default. Why? No the reasons given in openfate are just a mere excuse

...

.

I think you will find that SuSE and then Opensuse IS a KDE distro always has been until someone got into bed with Gnome and tried to force us down that path as was stated due internal politics . If you go back in the archives you will find all the rumpus over it , Just be happy that Gnome is actually mentioned because if things had gone slightly different a while back there would be NO Gnome in Opensuse. Pete

Sven Burmeister

07:54

Am Mittwoch, 29. Juli 2009 02:15:16 schrieb Gabriel:

...

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...
The reason for defaults is to help new users because they cannot make a choice. That's why there are defaults for the filesystem, browser, email- client, chat client, package patterns in general etc.

A new user does not know what KDE or Gnome is, how should he make a choice? You could as well put a "feeling lucky" button there.

How did you choose your desktop the first time?, did you know anything about any desktop env?

I started with RedHat and did not have to make a choice. Then I switched to SuSE and did not have to make a choice either.

...

If the user does not know, then let him investigate, search, ask. Why make the choice for them?

Because if a new user comes to that page he wants to install Linux and being told: "do some reading and research first" does not help in that situation.

...

Current desktop selection windows is not good too. Option buttons should be replaced by check boxes, and let the user install all desktops if he/she wants.

In fact, selecting all desktops by default would be the only valid solution, if one argues that new users need to try each desktop before they can make a choice. Having one selected by default is the other valid solution if one argues in favour of usability, as e.g. little things like switching DE or knowing that they each have separate settings (unlike the OSs the new users come from) just make life harder for newbies. The whole point of defaults is to relief them of making a choice if they cannot take it because of lack of knowledge. The purpose of choice is that they can change defaults if they want to. If you really think that (new) users must be forced to make a choice and investigate, ask etc. then I wait for your fate requests that the user is asked during installation which browser to use by default, which filesystem, email-client, chat-client, file-browser etc. Anything else would not be consequent. Although Gnome has taken this to an extreme, I thought that especially Gnome users should like and understand what defaults are meant to be. And I still don't get why selecting a default desktop decreases choice. the only difference is that one of the radio-buttons on that installation page is selected, it does not change anything for those that want a different desktop. So why does it decrease choice? Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Gabriel

13:07

On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 4:54 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...

And I still don't get why selecting a default desktop decreases choice. the only difference is that one of the radio-buttons on that installation page is selected, it does not change anything for those that want a different desktop. So why does it decrease choice?

Ok, then why not make other desktop default? As you may know, the majority of users who install everything by default, leave it as is. So I can only think that kde users are afraid of loosing market, or why have this discussion over and over again. -- Kind Regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sven Burmeister

13:37

Am Mittwoch, 29. Juli 2009 15:07:35 schrieb Gabriel:

...

On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 4:54 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...
And I still don't get why selecting a default desktop decreases choice. the only difference is that one of the radio-buttons on that installation page is selected, it does not change anything for those that want a different desktop. So why does it decrease choice?

Ok, then why not make other desktop default?

...

As you may know, the majority of users who install everything by default, leave it as is. So I can only think that kde users are afraid of loosing market, or why have this discussion over and over again.

What kind of argument is that? Should I now answer: since you are against KDE, whatever desktop you use is afraid that nobody would pick it if he knew KDE first? That kind of discussion is bogus and I won't get into it. The reasons why selecting KDE for openSUSE have been listed in this thread, user statistics is one of them. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Gabriel

13:49

On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...

What kind of argument is that? Should I now answer: since you are against KDE, whatever desktop you use is afraid that nobody would pick it if he knew KDE first? That kind of discussion is bogus and I won't get into it. The reasons why selecting KDE for openSUSE have been listed in this thread, user statistics is one of them.

If statistics is all you care about, then install windows and use IE. I'm not against KDE, and I don't remember any GNOME user proposing: "hey lets make openSUSE suggest GNOME as default". Why to bring this topic every year? What is the problem with the current non default desktop scheme? -- Kind Regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sven Burmeister

14:05

Am Mittwoch, 29. Juli 2009 15:49:45 schrieb Gabriel:

...

On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Sven

Burmeister wrote:

...
What kind of argument is that? Should I now answer: since you are against KDE, whatever desktop you use is afraid that nobody would pick it if he knew KDE first? That kind of discussion is bogus and I won't get into it. The reasons why selecting KDE for openSUSE have been listed in this thread, user statistics is one of them.

If statistics is all you care about, then install windows and use IE.

Thanks. I wrote "is one of them" you made that "is all you care about". What else do I need to say about your argumentation?

...

I'm not against KDE, and I don't remember any GNOME user proposing: "hey lets make openSUSE suggest GNOME as default".

Why to bring this topic every year?

What is the problem with the current non default desktop scheme?

I thought you read the thread and the fate request? Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Gabriel

14:34

On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...

I thought you read the thread and the fate request?

I did, but the other reasons are just as weak as the statistics. But thats, ok, you want to make the installation easier for "new users", put a one screen only setup with a simple message "wait while we install your system", and install all the defaults. Come on, you want kde, there is a KDE only cd, let the DVD as it is. -- Kind Regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

20:15

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2009-07-29 at 15:37 +0200, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...

Am Mittwoch, 29. Juli 2009 15:07:35 schrieb Gabriel:

...
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 4:54 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

...
And I still don't get why selecting a default desktop decreases choice. the only difference is that one of the radio-buttons on that installation page is selected, it does not change anything for those that want a different desktop. So why does it decrease choice?

Ok, then why not make other desktop default?

...
As you may know, the majority of users who install everything by default, leave it as is. So I can only think that kde users are afraid of loosing market, or why have this discussion over and over again.

What kind of argument is that? Should I now answer: since you are against KDE, whatever desktop you use is afraid that nobody would pick it if he knew KDE first? That kind of discussion is bogus and I won't get into it. The reasons why selecting KDE for openSUSE have been listed in this thread, user statistics is one of them.

I'm not against KDE. I use KDE. And gnome. And others. I'm against defining a default desktop, its different. It seems to me that the main reason to set kde as default is to make new users choose kde and increase "market share", with the excuse of no choosing being easier. And that is unfair. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpwreEACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Uc/wCffqHgdXggY/UxX/GU5O79cW1A vV8AnRmQDFb9SgNvyInKP/AvA/8tvjSs =7hHS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Lars Müller

28 Jul 28 Jul

21:47

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:25:48PM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On Tuesday, 2009-07-28 at 19:25 +0200, Lars Müller wrote:

...
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 06:13:41PM +0200, Graham Anderson wrote: [ 8< ]

...
You can vote for this either way at the openFATE feature request Frank created. https://features.opensuse.org/306967

Please vote _and_ provide reasons/ arguments.

I see a main advantage in having a preselected desktop. It is one question less. This is no advantage to a long time Linux user. But it is one annoying question less to a new user.

I don't.

I much prefer openSUSE to remain agnostic, as it is now, same as I prefer the state to remain agnostic.

I find the idea of having a default desktop - any desktop - almost offensive.

Sounds like said by a dogmatist. Bash is enough! vim or emacs? Why do we nedd it we have printf. ;)

...

And about new users... let them choose! Linux is about freedom, and freedom requires choices. The sooner they start choosing, better.

Users new to an operating system don't care about the name or type of the desktop. With the install they intend to get a working system. Any extra question causes an extra hurdle. That's one reason why Apple is successfull while we on the Linux side still keep going on with the discussion(s). Instead of focusing to the real issues we discuss the 20th rename of a package. And so on. It is a very small minority of new users which intend, need, and like the freedom of window manager choise. And this freedom still would be there. Even if we would implement some type of default window manager preselection - maybe depending on the geographical location or the used language. It's a very, very basic task for a non Linux beginner to change this to the preferred alternative. But it is a sucking hard question to someone new to Linux or Open Source Software at all. At this level the majority of users does't know nor care about Gnome, KDE, fvwm2, or xfce. Install fast and give me a browser. That's what the majority needs. I don't get the offensive part of making it easier to newcomers. The only 'offense' I'm able to see is if I'm a long time Gnome guy from Italy and the default for Europe would be KDE. But even in this example I currently must switch from none preselected window manager to Gnome. Oh well, this is a small step for the mankind but a big one to a dogmatist. :) But on the other side we would provide a well fitting default to 60 or 70% of the users of a region. And it would be one question, one hurdle less to a newcomer. Hey dogma, sorry for trying to drive this in a more userfriendly direction. Dudes, I'm not ready nor willing to switch to Mac OS. Let us try to make this Linux as user-friendly and easy to use as possible to new users. If we're not able to manage this task I fear we'll keep stalling at this low point of market shares. Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

Carlos E. R.

29 Jul 29 Jul

13:03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2009-07-28 at 23:47 +0200, Lars Müller wrote: ...

...

Dudes, I'm not ready nor willing to switch to Mac OS. Let us try to make this Linux as user-friendly and easy to use as possible to new users. If we're not able to manage this task I fear we'll keep stalling at this low point of market shares.

Then the default should be gnome - it is preconfigured, works out of the box, no wasting time with needless options :-P - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpwSKoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9X4UgCaApRlTclHryf8v6769TtqcFXm XCoAn0vjpL8a3Oztt5alqDXFoZV/MurD =AcmN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Peter Nikolic

14:23

On Wednesday 29 Jul 2009 14:03:36 Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On Tuesday, 2009-07-28 at 23:47 +0200, Lars Müller wrote:

...

...
Dudes, I'm not ready nor willing to switch to Mac OS. Let us try to make this Linux as user-friendly and easy to use as possible to new users. If we're not able to manage this task I fear we'll keep stalling at this low point of market shares.

Then the default should be gnome - it is preconfigured, works out of the box, no wasting time with needless options :-P Aye up planet zorg calling

Graham Anderson

00:43

On Tuesday 28 July 2009 22:25:48 Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

I find the idea of having a default desktop - any desktop - almost offensive.

Oh please spare us the self sacrifice you make to ensure you remove _ALL_ packages and only install the ones you want of choice.. I can almost feel the pain it must have caused you to look at the pattern selection of current openSUSE and be driven to near suicide by the idea of having to have useless crap installed by default... ¬_¬ What were you doing when KDE was the default desktop previously? Proselytising that it was anti free software or just getting on with your life by installing what you wanted anyway? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

G T Smith

08:40

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Graham Anderson wrote:

...

On Tuesday 28 July 2009 22:25:48 Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
I find the idea of having a default desktop - any desktop - almost offensive.

Oh please spare us the self sacrifice you make to ensure you remove _ALL_ packages and only install the ones you want of choice.. I can almost feel the pain it must have caused you to look at the pattern selection of current openSUSE and be driven to near suicide by the idea of having to have useless crap installed by default... ¬_¬

What were you doing when KDE was the default desktop previously? Proselytising that it was anti free software or just getting on with your life by installing what you wanted anyway?

It must of been pre v8.00 when it was was a default. Spent a lot of time mucking around with the different options available, tended to use KDE3 for quite a while until discovered some other stuff. It was usable but not particularly special. One of strengths of Linux is choice. Must admit do not really mind having an idiot install, so long as there is an expert install. I usually upgrade rather than re-install but having being forced to re-install from scratch due to reasons beyond my control, I had recently my first experience of the 'improved' installation process. I found the dumbed down installation process with some rather dodgy defaults a definite retrograde step. It is useful to have some default starting templates from which to start a new installation (which I seem to remember being available at one time but seem to have now disappeared), but the current one size fits all install is not very much use to someone who *knows* what they want to put on the machine, and just creates much unwanted grief for an experienced user. Did not want (or need) KDE4, so initially went with GNOME and was pleasantly surprised the improved effective basic interface of the newer version over previous versions I came into contact with. Definitely better for the function that machine provides. I do not want to be in the situation where I would have to strip one desktop out and reinstall my preferred selections. I am with Carlos on this one. It does (unintentionally) insult the intelligence of those who have an idea of what they are doing to provide near mandatory defaults. This really requires a balancing act between those who know little and and could not care less, and those who know a lot and care more. If you get the former at the expense of loosing the latter you have lost the distro. - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkpwCucACgkQasN0sSnLmgJJSwCePGvz74BddjT3A/1yNvOAej+N tT8AoKNQh/b+wGNjHzXV1x+WcXVFDyWr =QXgK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

12:56

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: On Wednesday, 2009-07-29 at 02:43 +0200, Graham Anderson wrote:

...

On Tuesday 28 July 2009 22:25:48 Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
I find the idea of having a default desktop - any desktop - almost offensive.

Oh please spare us the self sacrifice you make to ensure you remove _ALL_ packages and only install the ones you want of choice.. I can almost feel the pain it must have caused you to look at the pattern selection of current openSUSE and be driven to near suicide by the idea of having to have useless crap installed by default... ¬_¬

What were you doing when KDE was the default desktop previously? Proselytising that it was anti free software or just getting on with your life by installing what you wanted anyway?

I installed KDE - and more. I've nothing against kde, I use it. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpwRxAACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Vf0gCeOjxX4EdL817wnkTYwtgojUV/ cdcAn3SEQjwyJFSqXcstMzVIz9cW9Yjm =TGO7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Dan Goodman

28 Jul 28 Jul

18:41

Graham Anderson wrote:

...

...

The majority of the openSUSE user base uses KDE, this is not in dispute. Would it not then make more sense to have KDE as the default desktop?

For me it would not, both because when I chose this distro, I wanted to be able to run both. Didn't quite work out (see below) that I could do so on the same box, but...

...

What do you think? Has having a choice of desktop at installation time brought any tangible benefit? Definitely. After a fiasco I went through trying to install KDE3, KDE4, Gnome AND a couple more DE's during an update from 10.3 to 11.1, I had to start over with a clean install, and went with Gnome only. Had I not had the choice, I would have probably switched distros instead (although reluctantly). Should openSUSE go back to using KDE as the default desktop or maybe you think that GNOME should be the default desktop instead?

Neither ... choice is good. Keeps the competititon honest, etc., and serves the need of more users and potential users.

...

You can vote for this either way at the openFATE feature request Frank created. https://features.opensuse.org/306967

It is my understanding that this post constitutes a recording of my vote. If not, please reply to me directly (originator only, pls.) Dan Notice: This communication, including attachments, may contain confidential or proprietary information to be conveyed solely for the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, or if you otherwise received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this e-mail, including attachments, without reading or saving them in any manner. The unauthorized use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this e-mail, including attachments, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

20:27

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2009-07-28 at 14:41 -0400, Dan Goodman wrote:

...

It is my understanding that this post constitutes a recording of my vote. If not, please reply to me directly (originator only, pls.)

No, it doesn't. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpvXysACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Xg1gCff3iFgc1p3b6icOKzAmxOxxi0 BcMAnROM/EYt9zg51HjHIjjCg+HW9/3G =BI0f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

5386

Age (days ago)

5387

Last active (days ago)

List overview

Download

21 comments

8 participants

participants (8)

Carlos E. R.
Dan Goodman
G T Smith
Gabriel
Graham Anderson
Lars Müller
Peter Nikolic
Sven Burmeister