Linux CD-RW Driver?

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Re: [SLE] Problem getting started...

Thomas Jones

29 Sep 2002 29 Sep '02

00:56

Has anyone seen any drivers for the Creative CD-RW RW4224E? My SuSE 8.0 system is recognizing it as a SCSI device....which obviously is incorrect given its a IDE device. I not only cannot burn disks with it....but it won't even read a ISO9660 filesystem. <relevant boot.msg snip> <6>scsi0 : SCSI host adapter emulation for IDE ATAPI devices <4> Vendor: CREATIVE Model: CD-RW RW4224E Rev: 1.36 <4> Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02 <4>Attached scsi CD-ROM sr0 at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 0 <4>sr0: scsi3-mmc drive: 24x/24x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray Thanks. Thomas Jones

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Jay Vollmer

29 Sep 29 Sep

01:14

New subject: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

jvollmer@visi.com

...

Has anyone seen any drivers for the Creative CD-RW RW4224E? My SuSE 8.0 system is recognizing it as a SCSI device....which obviously is incorrect given its a IDE device. I not only cannot burn disks with it....but it won't even read a ISO9660 filesystem.

<relevant boot.msg snip>

<6>scsi0 : SCSI host adapter emulation for IDE ATAPI devices <4> Vendor: CREATIVE Model: CD-RW RW4224E Rev: 1.36 <4> Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02 <4>Attached scsi CD-ROM sr0 at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 0 <4>sr0: scsi3-mmc drive: 24x/24x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray

Obviously, you're loading the SCSI emulation module (ide-scsi,) which allows your IDE devices to be controlled by SCSI commands. Check to see that /dev/cdrom and /dev/cdrecorder are both pointing to /dev/sr0. -- JAY VOLLMER JVOLLMER@VISI.COM TEXT REFS DOUBLEPLUSUNGOOD SELFTHINK VERGING CRIMETHINK IGNORE FULLWISE

Thomas Jones

01:34

New subject: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

Yes it is pointing to /dev/sr0. I didn't realize there was such a thing that used SCSI controllers to talk to IDE devices. Regardless, it doesn't seem to play well together. Any ideas anyone? Maybe i'll just have to pull it...and hook up my external HP CD-RW to this system. On Saturday 28 September 2002 20:14, Jay Vollmer wrote:

...

jvollmer@visi.com

...
Has anyone seen any drivers for the Creative CD-RW RW4224E? My SuSE 8.0 system is recognizing it as a SCSI device....which obviously is incorrect given its a IDE device. I not only cannot burn disks with it....but it won't even read a ISO9660 filesystem.

<relevant boot.msg snip>

<6>scsi0 : SCSI host adapter emulation for IDE ATAPI devices <4> Vendor: CREATIVE Model: CD-RW RW4224E Rev: 1.36 <4> Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02 <4>Attached scsi CD-ROM sr0 at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 0 <4>sr0: scsi3-mmc drive: 24x/24x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray

Obviously, you're loading the SCSI emulation module (ide-scsi,) which allows your IDE devices to be controlled by SCSI commands.

Check to see that /dev/cdrom and /dev/cdrecorder are both pointing to /dev/sr0.

Anders Johansson

01:41

New subject: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

Thomas Jones said:

...

Yes it is pointing to /dev/sr0. I didn't realize there was such a thing that used SCSI controllers to talk to IDE devices.

Yes, sadly. It's a pain, but for some reason it's necessary for things like cd recorders to be treated as scsi devices. Don't know why, but windows also does it, although it's slightly more transparent there.

...

Regardless, it doesn't seem to play well together. Any ideas anyone? Maybe i'll just have to pull it...and hook up my external HP CD-RW to this system.

What do you get if you do, as root, "cdrecord -scanbus"? //Anders

Carlos E. R.

13:04

New subject: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

...

Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 03:41:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Johansson To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

Thomas Jones said:

...
Yes it is pointing to /dev/sr0. I didn't realize there was such a thing that used SCSI controllers to talk to IDE devices.

Yes, sadly. It's a pain, but for some reason it's necessary for things like cd recorders to be treated as scsi devices. Don't know why, but windows also does it, although it's slightly more transparent there.

It is documented on the web page of the developer of the cdrtools utilities: +++ README.ATAPI.gz People often ask me why do you depend on ATAPI-SCSI emulation, why don't you support generic IDE? Well first a statement: There is no single IDE burner out! Even a CD-ROM cannot be used decently if you use only IDE commands. Opening/closing the door, playing audio and similar things cannot be done using IDE commands - you will need SCSI commands to do this. But how do we do this with a drive that uses an IDE interface? The ATAPI standard describes method of sending SCSI commands over IDE with some small limitations to the "real" SCSI standard. For this reason ATAPI-SCSI emulation is the native method of supporting ATAPI devices. Just imagine that IDE is one of many SCSI transport mechanisms. This are some SCSI transports: - Parallel SCSI (what most people call SCSI) - SCSI over fiber optics - SCSI over IEEE 1394 (Fire Wire) - SCSI over USB - SCSI over IDE (ATAPI) As you now see, the use of the naming convention "ATAPI-SCSI emulation" is a little bit misleading. It should rather be called: "IDE-SCSI host adapter emulation" Some naming explanations: ATA Attachment Adapter IDE Integrated Drive Electronics (A Drive that includes ATA) ATAPI ATA Packet Interface When cdrecord has problems with ATAPI drives on Linux this usually is a Linux kernel problem. The Linux kernel maintainers unfortunately refuse to correct their current IDE driver system setup which does not support ATAPI by default. ATAPI _is_ SCSI over IDE transport. It is hard to understand why Linux still uses a standard driver setup that is designed for IDE CD-ROM drives made before 1994 (using a IDE compat mode that only allows to use the drive read-only) and does not handle to send SCSI commands to ATAPI drives by default. This makes it hard for people who just started with Linux to do CD-writing on Linux if they own an ATAPI drive. ++- For more info, have a look at "http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/glone/employees/joerg.schilling/private/..." -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

Curtis Rey

19:24

New subject: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

Ah, now the light shines. Is there a reason or specific justification by the kernal maintainers/developers as to why the aforementioned ATAPI parameters aren't included in the kernal drivers? Is there some sort of patent or copyright issue here? Or should I just start sending nice little requests to Andre Hedrick and friends asking them to address this. Thanks for the heads up and cheers. Curtis. :) On Sunday 29 September 2002 06:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 03:41:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Johansson To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

Thomas Jones said:

...
Yes it is pointing to /dev/sr0. I didn't realize there was such a thing that used SCSI controllers to talk to IDE devices.

Yes, sadly. It's a pain, but for some reason it's necessary for things like cd recorders to be treated as scsi devices. Don't know why, but windows also does it, although it's slightly more transparent there.

It is documented on the web page of the developer of the cdrtools utilities:

+++ README.ATAPI.gz People often ask me why do you depend on ATAPI-SCSI emulation, why don't you support generic IDE?

Well first a statement: There is no single IDE burner out! Even a CD-ROM cannot be used decently if you use only IDE commands. Opening/closing the door, playing audio and similar things cannot be done using IDE commands - you will need SCSI commands to do this. But how do we do this with a drive that uses an IDE interface?

The ATAPI standard describes method of sending SCSI commands over IDE with some small limitations to the "real" SCSI standard. For this reason ATAPI-SCSI emulation is the native method of supporting ATAPI devices. Just imagine that IDE is one of many SCSI transport mechanisms.

This are some SCSI transports:

- Parallel SCSI (what most people call SCSI) - SCSI over fiber optics - SCSI over IEEE 1394 (Fire Wire) - SCSI over USB - SCSI over IDE (ATAPI)

As you now see, the use of the naming convention "ATAPI-SCSI emulation" is a little bit misleading. It should rather be called: "IDE-SCSI host adapter emulation"

Some naming explanations:

ATA Attachment Adapter IDE Integrated Drive Electronics (A Drive that includes ATA) ATAPI ATA Packet Interface

When cdrecord has problems with ATAPI drives on Linux this usually is a Linux kernel problem. The Linux kernel maintainers unfortunately refuse to correct their current IDE driver system setup which does not support ATAPI by default. ATAPI _is_ SCSI over IDE transport. It is hard to understand why Linux still uses a standard driver setup that is designed for IDE CD-ROM drives made before 1994 (using a IDE compat mode that only allows to use the drive read-only) and does not handle to send SCSI commands to ATAPI drives by default. This makes it hard for people who just started with Linux to do CD-writing on Linux if they own an ATAPI drive.

++-

For more info, have a look at "http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/glone/employees/joerg.schilling/privat e/cdrecord.html"

Carlos E. R.

30 Sep 30 Sep

00:43

New subject: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

Curtis, No, I don't suppose it is a patent issue, it is just they do it that way; correctly or incorrectly, I don't know. If you have a look at the docs in that web page, you will see that he is... I don't know how to say... perhaps beligerant with the linux internals. I can not claim to know enough to take sides on that. In any case, interesting reading. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson El 02.09.29 a las 12:24, Curtis Rey escribió:

...

Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 12:24:18 -0700 From: Curtis Rey To: Carlos E. R. , suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

Ah, now the light shines. Is there a reason or specific justification by the kernal maintainers/developers as to why the aforementioned ATAPI parameters aren't included in the kernal drivers? Is there some sort of patent or copyright issue here?

Or should I just start sending nice little requests to Andre Hedrick and friends asking them to address this.

Thanks for the heads up and cheers. Curtis. :)

On Sunday 29 September 2002 06:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
...
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 03:41:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Johansson To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

Thomas Jones said:

...
Yes it is pointing to /dev/sr0. I didn't realize there was such a thing that used SCSI controllers to talk to IDE devices.

Yes, sadly. It's a pain, but for some reason it's necessary for things like cd recorders to be treated as scsi devices. Don't know why, but windows also does it, although it's slightly more transparent there.

It is documented on the web page of the developer of the cdrtools utilities:

+++ README.ATAPI.gz People often ask me why do you depend on ATAPI-SCSI emulation, why don't you support generic IDE?

Well first a statement: There is no single IDE burner out! Even a CD-ROM cannot be used decently if you use only IDE commands. Opening/closing the door, playing audio and similar things cannot be done using IDE commands - you will need SCSI commands to do this. But how do we do this with a drive that uses an IDE interface?

The ATAPI standard describes method of sending SCSI commands over IDE with some small limitations to the "real" SCSI standard. For this reason ATAPI-SCSI emulation is the native method of supporting ATAPI devices. Just imagine that IDE is one of many SCSI transport mechanisms.

This are some SCSI transports:

- Parallel SCSI (what most people call SCSI) - SCSI over fiber optics - SCSI over IEEE 1394 (Fire Wire) - SCSI over USB - SCSI over IDE (ATAPI)

As you now see, the use of the naming convention "ATAPI-SCSI emulation" is a little bit misleading. It should rather be called: "IDE-SCSI host adapter emulation"

Some naming explanations:

ATA Attachment Adapter IDE Integrated Drive Electronics (A Drive that includes ATA) ATAPI ATA Packet Interface

When cdrecord has problems with ATAPI drives on Linux this usually is a Linux kernel problem. The Linux kernel maintainers unfortunately refuse to correct their current IDE driver system setup which does not support ATAPI by default. ATAPI _is_ SCSI over IDE transport. It is hard to understand why Linux still uses a standard driver setup that is designed for IDE CD-ROM drives made before 1994 (using a IDE compat mode that only allows to use the drive read-only) and does not handle to send SCSI commands to ATAPI drives by default. This makes it hard for people who just started with Linux to do CD-writing on Linux if they own an ATAPI drive.

++-

For more info, have a look at "http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/glone/employees/joerg.schilling/privat e/cdrecord.html"

Curtis Rey

29 Sep 29 Sep

01:55

New subject: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

Thomas Jones wrote:

...

Yes it is pointing to /dev/sr0. I didn't realize there was such a thing that used SCSI controllers to talk to IDE devices.

Regardless, it doesn't seem to play well together. Any ideas anyone? Maybe i'll just have to pull it...and hook up my external HP CD-RW to this system.

On Saturday 28 September 2002 20:14, Jay Vollmer wrote:

No, don't pull it and go external. Just more head aches. This is not Windows. You have to give each device and/or program specific permission of anyone other than the root account won't run them (or at least not correctly unless it's "pre-configured" that way and generally devices aren't preconfigure except during installation because SuSE set it up that way. You need to give your user account permissions and have said user account associated with that group. The default permission sets for this device are probably user(aka owner) = root and group(aka users) =root. Which means if you ain't root you don't use it. change the group settings to disks and allow you user/s accounts to belong to the group "disks" with "rwx" (read, write, execute/enter) permissions. You may also need to do the same with the program you wish to use to burn with. If the users account doesn't have permissions to use it then it won't work for them. In KDE if you have "XCDRoast" installed and click on the program from the start menu it will most likely give you a message that your users accounts don't have the proper permissions setup and might ask if you would in fact like to set this up (via the program). I'm betting that this is you problem. And this also extends to any directory/sub directory a "user" (not root aka the admin) wants to access/enter/use. As in the directories /media/cdrecorder/ If you give the directory group permissions for the user but don't give the sub dir "cdrecorder" directory the same permissions then your back to --- not allow for the user account's. Keep asking question. You'll get help and figure it out. Once you figure it out then your just that much more empowered and experienced. I'm an end users and struggled at first. Now, not say I can be an admin in an IT department, but I can tweak my Linux box to burn at will, get 100+ fps in games with my Nvidia card, and even begun to set up firewalls (though the rule set still gives me headaches). Look in your SuSE manual about setting it up or try the SBD (support data base). I bet you'll find alot of answers there. Cheers, Curtis

Anders Johansson

02:02

New subject: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

Curtis Rey said:

...

don't use it. change the group settings to disks and allow you user/s accounts to belong to the group "disks"

It's not good to let normal users belong to group disk. I know I recommended it once, but I must have been drinking at the time. All hard disk devices are owned by group disk, so users in that group can do just about anything they want to your system. You may as well give them root. If this is the solution you want to work with, it's better to set up a new group, and let everything be owned by that new group. //Anders

Curtis Rey

02:10

New subject: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

Anders Johansson wrote:

...

Curtis Rey said:

...
don't use it. change the group settings to disks and allow you user/s accounts to belong to the group "disks"

It's not good to let normal users belong to group disk. I know I recommended it once, but I must have been drinking at the time. All hard disk devices are owned by group disk, so users in that group can do just about anything they want to your system. You may as well give them root.

If this is the solution you want to work with, it's better to set up a new group, and let everything be owned by that new group.

//Anders

Sorry, I'm the only user on my system. So, is it wiser to set the cdrecorder/sr0 devices to "users"? Cheers, Curtis

Anders Johansson

02:16

New subject: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

Curtis Rey said:

...

Sorry, I'm the only user on my system. So, is it wiser to set the cdrecorder/sr0 devices to "users"?

Yes, and don't forget the /dev/sg* devices. Those are the ones programs such as cdrecord actually work with. If you're the only user on the system it may seem silly to worry about these things, but the arguments against it are pretty much the same as the arguments against running as root all the time. //Anders

Curtis Rey

01:33

New subject: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

Thomas Jones wrote:

...

Has anyone seen any drivers for the Creative CD-RW RW4224E? My SuSE 8.0 system is recognizing it as a SCSI device....which obviously is incorrect given its a IDE device. I not only cannot burn disks with it....but it won't even read a ISO9660 filesystem.

<relevant boot.msg snip>

<6>scsi0 : SCSI host adapter emulation for IDE ATAPI devices <4> Vendor: CREATIVE Model: CD-RW RW4224E Rev: 1.36 <4> Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02 <4>Attached scsi CD-ROM sr0 at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 0 <4>sr0: scsi3-mmc drive: 24x/24x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray

Thanks. Thomas Jones

This is probably because it's be handed off to the "ide-scsi" emulation when you installed the OS. What you need to realize (if your unaware) that in order to burn cdroms you must use the ide-scsi module. Even if you look in the file system registry under Windows under SCSI you'll more likely than not see any cdrom listed there (especially for burners). So, first go into the "/dev" directory and you'll probably see to symlinks. One named "cdrom" and the other named "cdrecorder". I'm betting the symlink "cdrom" point to a default cdrom device and not device "sr0". Your cdrecorder is actually running as /dev/sr0 for device "s"csi "r"ecorder device # 0. If the symlink for the "cdrecorder" points to dev/cdrom0 (of something like that) then it's pointing to the wrong device. If it's pointing to /dev/sr0 then it's correct. The "cdrom" device may or may not point to /dev/sr0. Either way you cannot record/burn CDs with a cdrom (it only reads, no write/rewrite). you have to use dev/cdrecorder (aka sr0). I bet if you look at you file tree in you'll see a directory named "media" and under that you'll possibly 3 sub dirs. "cdrecorder", "cdrom", and "floppy". For the issue concerning file sys reads. I have had this problem with cdroms, especially if a cdrecorder/burner is installed as well. I you have both there is a work around in the SuSE support files. Anyway, to make sure you can burn with the recorder device change the group permission to disk (make sure that device sr0 is changed, the symlink may or may not change by it's self as well. If not then change the symlink group permissions to disk). Of course you need to do this as "root" (forgive me if I'm oversimplifying, I don't know your level of experience). It should read something like: /dev/cdrecorder points to /dev/sr0, and furthermore should look like this: ~ la /dev/sr0 rwxrwxr-x root disk /dev/sr0 or user root group disks and like wise for /dev/cdrecorder symlink. Then you need to make sure that the users, such as your own user account are added to the group "disks" You can also change the group of the device and it's symlink to "users" if you want. But changing it to disks and giving the group "disks" read, write, and execute permissions should do it. If you need further help please post to the list agian. HTH, Curtis :)

Bryan Tyson

02:17

New subject: [SLE] Linux CD-RW Driver?

On Saturday 28 September 2002 20:56, Thomas wrote:

...

Has anyone seen any drivers for the Creative CD-RW RW4224E? My SuSE 8.0 system is recognizing it as a SCSI device....which obviously is incorrect given its a IDE device.

Actually for a CD-RW you *do* need SCSI emulation. *************************************************** Powered by SuSE Linux 8.0 Professional KDE 3.0.0 KMail 1.4 This is a Microsoft-free computer Bryan S. Tyson bryantyson@earthlink.net ***************************************************

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Anders Johansson
Bryan Tyson
Carlos E. R.
Curtis Rey
Jay Vollmer
Thomas Jones