[SLE] Bad idea to "pick on" a particular distribution
NOTE: This message is being e-mailed to info@redhatisnotlinux.org as well as to "suse-linux-e@suse.com" <suse-linux-e@suse.com>. Please RE to the SuSE list and let the RSN folks drop by and listen or participate as they like. I took a look at this site [ http://www.RedHatIsNotLinux.org ] because it was posted to the SuSE Linux mailing list. I agree with the spirit of what you are trying to accomplish, in so much as it regards the preservation of a free GLinux. (the 'G' may be silent as in "GNOME") I believe it is a bad idea to pick on any particular distribution. I have used SuSE for two very solid years. For the most part I am happy with SuSE, and I have the feeling they are on of the truer distributions in the OSS spirit. The has it's ups and downs. I have spilt blood over HP's WJA for (Red Hat) Linux. I have had the same type of experience with Corel's WordPerfect. In the latter case Corel was willing to assist the SuSE community in using their product with reasonably good results. The danger in naming Red Hat specifically is that it threatens to polarize the overall Linux community. I agree that RH has the potential of becoming the Microsoft of GLinux. To a large extent this is not their "fault". It's not RH who demands these vendors produce RH specific products. It seems to be more a combination of the traditional, one vendor of OS's, paradigm, as well as an ignorance on the part of the hardware vendor community as regards the overall GLinux community and market. I have never used RH, but I'm sure they produce a fine distribution. In the last century the Unix industry attempted to standardize on an agreed upon framework, and ended up with a heterogeneous plethora of Unix products that tend not to provide the interoperability promised by such an agreement. I would like to see the GLinux community accomplish what the Unix vendors failed to do. I don't believe singling out RH or any other distributor as the culprit will produce the sprit of trust and cooperation required to create a truly open GLinux platform. The problem arises that the GLinux distributors need some type of market differentiate to attract customers. If companies who distribute GLinux cannot make money, they will not survive. Finding the middle ground is not easy. It becomes more difficult when we start using antagonistic tactics. I humbly suggest you change the focus of your campaign away from an opposition to RH, and toward the goal of a truly open GLinux. Thanks for hearing me out, Steve -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
I do not believe that the site is anti-Red Hat. The creator is merely trying to make a point. Red Hat is not the only distribution of Linux out there. It is important that new users, and businesses that are starting to take an interest in Linux be made aware of the other alternatives out there. I have used both Red Hat and SuSE in my first year as a Linux user. I like them both. Unfortunately, Red Hat has gained an edge on the competition out there through no fault of its own. I am not saying that they will be the next Microsoft. I think that is absurd. However, they may unwillingly reduce competition between the distributions if most software will only install out of the box on a Red Hat Linux system. Perhaps I missed something at the site. If I did, then please correct me. However, I truly believe that the site creator is not trying to bash Red Hat. He is merely trying to say something akin to what I stated above. Victor On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Steven T. Hatton wrote:
NOTE: This message is being e-mailed to info@redhatisnotlinux.org as well as to "suse-linux-e@suse.com" <suse-linux-e@suse.com>. Please RE to the SuSE list and let the RSN folks drop by and listen or participate as they like.
I took a look at this site [ http://www.RedHatIsNotLinux.org ] because it was posted to the SuSE Linux mailing list. I agree with the spirit of what you are trying to accomplish, in so much as it regards the preservation of a free GLinux. (the 'G' may be silent as in "GNOME") I believe it is a bad idea to pick on any particular distribution. I have used SuSE for two very solid years. For the most part I am happy with SuSE, and I have the feeling they are on of the truer distributions in the OSS spirit. The has it's ups and downs. I have spilt blood over HP's WJA for (Red Hat) Linux. I have had the same type of experience with Corel's WordPerfect. In the latter case Corel was willing to assist the SuSE community in using their product with reasonably good results.
The danger in naming Red Hat specifically is that it threatens to polarize the overall Linux community. I agree that RH has the potential of becoming the Microsoft of GLinux. To a large extent this is not their "fault". It's not RH who demands these vendors produce RH specific products. It seems to be more a combination of the traditional, one vendor of OS's, paradigm, as well as an ignorance on the part of the hardware vendor community as regards the overall GLinux community and market. I have never used RH, but I'm sure they produce a fine distribution. In the last century the Unix industry attempted to standardize on an agreed upon framework, and ended up with a heterogeneous plethora of Unix products that tend not to provide the interoperability promised by such an agreement. I would like to see the GLinux community accomplish what the Unix vendors failed to do. I don't believe singling out RH or any other distributor as the culprit will produce the sprit of trust and cooperation required to create a truly open GLinux platform.
The problem arises that the GLinux distributors need some type of market differentiate to attract customers. If companies who distribute GLinux cannot make money, they will not survive. Finding the middle ground is not easy. It becomes more difficult when we start using antagonistic tactics. I humbly suggest you change the focus of your campaign away from an opposition to RH, and toward the goal of a truly open GLinux.
Thanks for hearing me out,
Steve
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
I too have used RedHat in the past. In my opinion, RedHat -is- already becoming a Micro$oft-like Linux-dist. How often do we hear conversations more or less like this: 'What do you run in your company/at home?" "Linux" "What kind?" "What kind? eerr.. RedHat? (what else?)" I really have *never* heard anyone say SuSE, Caldera, SlackWare or ay other dist. If you're running Linux, you're running RedHat Linux (what else). That's almost asking what OS you're running on your PC at home. "Windoze *of course*". No OS/2, Linux, BeOS or other OS'ses. I personally like SuSE, and I'm stickin' with it. Never had any serious trouble with it. I never had such great support, service (the Powered-by-SuSE stickers!) and fun using other software/hardware/(N)OS. As far as I'm concerned, SuSE, Caldera, Slackware, etc aren't paying enough attention to marketing, as RedHat does. Rogier "Victor R. Cardona" wrote:
...snip
I have used both Red Hat and SuSE in my first year as a Linux user. I like them both. Unfortunately, Red Hat has gained an edge on the competition out there through no fault of its own. I am not saying that they will be the next Microsoft. I think that is absurd. However, they may unwillingly reduce competition between the distributions if most software will only install out of the box on a Red Hat Linux system. ...snip
Thanks for hearing me out,
Steve
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Red Hat is not Microsoft. How could they be when they release the source for every enhancement they make. They also do not object to other distributions being based on theirs. To say that they are like Microsoft simply because they are the most popular is ridiculous. However, I must agree with you on one point, SuSE does not spend much money on marketing, but I am glad they don't. I would rather they spent their resouces on product development and enhancement. That is what makes SuSE Linux a better distribution then Red Hat. Victor On Sun, 30 Apr 2000, Rogier Maas wrote:
I too have used RedHat in the past. In my opinion, RedHat -is- already becoming a Micro$oft-like Linux-dist. How often do we hear conversations more or less like this:
'What do you run in your company/at home?" "Linux" "What kind?" "What kind? eerr.. RedHat? (what else?)"
I really have *never* heard anyone say SuSE, Caldera, SlackWare or ay other dist. If you're running Linux, you're running RedHat Linux (what else). That's almost asking what OS you're running on your PC at home. "Windoze *of course*". No OS/2, Linux, BeOS or other OS'ses.
I personally like SuSE, and I'm stickin' with it. Never had any serious trouble with it. I never had such great support, service (the Powered-by-SuSE stickers!) and fun using other software/hardware/(N)OS.
As far as I'm concerned, SuSE, Caldera, Slackware, etc aren't paying enough attention to marketing, as RedHat does.
Rogier
"Victor R. Cardona" wrote:
...snip
I have used both Red Hat and SuSE in my first year as a Linux user. I like them both. Unfortunately, Red Hat has gained an edge on the competition out there through no fault of its own. I am not saying that they will be the next Microsoft. I think that is absurd. However, they may unwillingly reduce competition between the distributions if most software will only install out of the box on a Red Hat Linux system. ...snip
Thanks for hearing me out,
Steve
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
At 03:51 AM 4/30/2000 +0200, Rogier Maas wrote:
I too have used RedHat in the past. In my opinion, RedHat -is- already becoming a Micro$oft-like Linux-dist. How often do we hear conversations more or less like this:
Hmmm , In a slight way I do agree with you . Red hat has a realy nice slick logo , and it realy sticks to you.Easy to remember and stays there the next time you browse the isles. They have also done a lot of good marketing and started long before suse. They were the first to realy hit retial shelves. So they do have a big edge on "hype"
'What do you run in your company/at home?" "Linux" "What kind?" "What kind? eerr.. RedHat? (what else?)" I really have *never* heard anyone say SuSE, Caldera, SlackWare or ay other dist. If you're running Linux, you're running RedHat Linux (what else). That's almost asking what OS you're running on your PC at home. "Windoze *of course*". No OS/2, Linux, BeOS or other OS'ses.
I agree with you on that one. At the local NYC linux group (NYLUG/LUNY) I think I was the only one using Suse. This was about six months ago. Heven been to any meeting lately. Red hat owns most of the teritory.
I personally like SuSE, and I'm stickin' with it. Never had any serious trouble with it. I never had such great support, service (the Powered-by-SuSE stickers!) and fun using other software/hardware/(N)OS.
When I tested linux out , Was with Suse 5.3 boxed set. Piad 69.00 for it at borders in N.J. Why suse , It was the ONLY distro that HAD PNONE SUPORT. Red Hat had only email suport. As a totaly newbie I wanted to be able to get ahpold of a real humon on the phone. That is what put it ahead of the pack. I has also heard a number of comliants about redhat and there not suporting certian hardware. Once I got my hands dirty with yasy I was I started to realy like what I saw. But What realy does make a big impression is the mailing list. Every one here is so helpfull and there are so meny that chime in , regardless of how stupid the question or how meny times its been posted before. You get anbswers and diffreent solutions.
As far as I'm concerned, SuSE, Caldera, Slackware, etc aren't paying enough attention to marketing, as RedHat does.
I have to agree with you here. I would also like to see better printer suport and beter suport for the newer hardware. I am well aware of the dificulty of this due to the manufacturees not helping. But this realy does need to be addressed , especialy if they want to realy push into the windows market. Matter of fact I plan on loading corel linux and corel Ofiice 2000 Delux just to check out the printer suport. Thats how important it is to me. Whats realy good about the open source is the ability to see other code and build on it. Keeps every one in check. even Red Hat , as they MUST release the code. Even Corel must do the same. Remember the noise created when they did not include it on the demno version or whatebver it was. THey have done a lot in a very short time withthere l9inux os and office 2000 product. Now if only they can suport it and clean up the problems with it. Time will tell.
Rogier
"Victor R. Cardona" wrote:
...snip
I have used both Red Hat and SuSE in my first year as a Linux user. I like them both. Unfortunately, Red Hat has gained an edge on the competition out there through no fault of its own. I am not saying that they will be the next Microsoft. I think that is absurd. However, they may unwillingly reduce competition between the distributions if most software will only install out of the box on a Red Hat Linux system. ...snip
Thanks for hearing me out,
Steve
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Samy Elashmawy wrote:
At 03:51 AM 4/30/2000 +0200, Rogier Maas wrote:
I too have used RedHat in the past. In my opinion, RedHat -is- already becoming a Micro$oft-like Linux-dist. How often do we hear conversations more or less like this:
Hmmm , In a slight way I do agree with you . Red hat has a realy nice slick logo , and it realy sticks to you.Easy to remember and stays there the next time you browse the isles.
They have also done a lot of good marketing and started long before suse.
If you're refering to the company, and not to the marketing when you say they 'started long before suse', I would have to correct you: SuSE (the company) has existed and distributed Linux for longer than Red Hat (the company).
They were the first to realy hit retial shelves. So they do have a big edge on "hype"
I will admit, though, that Red Hat has the edge in marketing terms... SuSE are starting to get their act together with marketing now, which is good. Bye, Chris -- Sorry everybody - all the servers at the ISP I use for email have been down for the past four days. They've come back up again, so now I have to catch up on all that mail... __ _ -o)/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Chris Reeves /\\ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / ICQ# 22219005 _\_v __/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
If you're refering to the company, and not to the marketing when you say they 'started long before suse', I would have to correct you:
SuSE (the company) has existed and distributed Linux for longer than Red Hat (the company).
Cool , never knew that , and I am quit surprised by that. It just shows how well Redhat markets its self. I had allways "assumed" that SuSe was newer. Most likley cause I heard od RH way before Suse.
They were the first to realy hit retial shelves. So they do have a big edge on "hype"
Its more than just "hype" They realy "market" there product , you see refrences to it every where. You see books on it every where. It realy has a lot of market visability. Much more than suse.
I will admit, though, that Red Hat has the edge in marketing terms... SuSE are starting to get their act together with marketing now, which is good.
Yep they are improving on it. Of cource most peaple under estamate work of mouth. i suspect that and the Suse rep for yast and the Roclk solid mailing list are what realy keep users coming back. Once that word of mouth gets some major momentum , wach out. I think were getting there right closesly. I have allways recamended suse , Just pionting out that it has six cds comapered to tother distros with only one or two cds. Then tell them you would have to download all the other apps you want to install. Its also good to look ath the other distros and see what they are doing , and how they are uping the ante and then asking suse to implement more features. They (suse) must go nuts with that. But is is part and parcel to evolving and changing with the times. I plan on slaping Corel and WP Office3 2000 on one of my boxes to check it out. Tried a version of Mandrake and nver made it throgh the install. That was a version or too older than whats curent. All those $2.00 demos are sometimes tempting.
Bye, Chris -- Sorry everybody - all the servers at the ISP I use for email have been down for the past four days. They've come back up again, so now I have to catch up on all that mail... __ _ -o)/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Chris Reeves /\\ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / ICQ# 22219005 _\_v __/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
* Chris Reeves <chris.reeves@iname.com>:
I will admit, though, that Red Hat has the edge in marketing terms... SuSE are starting to get their act together with marketing now, which is good.
As their success rises we'll start seeing messages claiming how SuSE has become "microsoft-like" and how they aren't a part of the community anymore. ;-) It's almost like success is scary or something. |David -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
----------------------------- John Vincent Medina Catral catral@earthlink.net http://i.am/johncatral ICQ# 7113128 -----Original Message----- From: System Administrator [mailto:root@CPKWEBSER5.ncr.disa.mil]On Behalf Of Steven T. Hatton Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 1:03 PM To: info@redhatisnotlinux.org; suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: [SLE] Bad idea to "pick on" a particular distribution NOTE: This message is being e-mailed to info@redhatisnotlinux.org as well as to "suse-linux-e@suse.com" <suse-linux-e@suse.com>. Please RE to the SuSE list and let the RSN folks drop by and listen or participate as they like. I took a look at this site [ http://www.RedHatIsNotLinux.org ] because it was posted to the SuSE Linux mailing list. I agree with the spirit of what you are trying to accomplish, in so much as it regards the preservation of a free GLinux. (the 'G' may be silent as in "GNOME") I believe it is a bad idea to pick on any particular distribution. I have used SuSE for two very solid years. For the most part I am happy with SuSE, and I have the feeling they are on of the truer distributions in the OSS spirit. The has it's ups and downs. I have spilt blood over HP's WJA for (Red Hat) Linux. I have had the same type of experience with Corel's WordPerfect. In the latter case Corel was willing to assist the SuSE community in using their product with reasonably good results. The danger in naming Red Hat specifically is that it threatens to polarize the overall Linux community. I agree that RH has the potential of becoming the Microsoft of GLinux. To a large extent this is not their "fault". It's not RH who demands these vendors produce RH specific products. It seems to be more a combination of the traditional, one vendor of OS's, paradigm, as well as an ignorance on the part of the hardware vendor community as regards the overall GLinux community and market. I have never used RH, but I'm sure they produce a fine distribution. In the last century the Unix industry attempted to standardize on an agreed upon framework, and ended up with a heterogeneous plethora of Unix products that tend not to provide the interoperability promised by such an agreement. I would like to see the GLinux community accomplish what the Unix vendors failed to do. I don't believe singling out RH or any other distributor as the culprit will produce the sprit of trust and cooperation required to create a truly open GLinux platform. The problem arises that the GLinux distributors need some type of market differentiate to attract customers. If companies who distribute GLinux cannot make money, they will not survive. Finding the middle ground is not easy. It becomes more difficult when we start using antagonistic tactics. I humbly suggest you change the focus of your campaign away from an opposition to RH, and toward the goal of a truly open GLinux. Thanks for hearing me out, Steve -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/ -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
participants (7)
-
chris.reeves＠iname.com -
hattons＠cpkwebser5.ncr.disa.mil -
icarus＠guldennet.nl -
jcm＠bigskytel.com -
linux＠gamebox.net -
samelash＠ix.netcom.com -
vcardona＠home.com