On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 15:07, Robert Schweikert wrote:

With mysql now owned by Oracle, who knows how long it'll be maintained.

Oracle has made a public statement about its commitment to MySQL http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/042364 Insinuating that Oracle will stop maintaining MySQL is stirring up the FUD and nothing more. Oracle had to make clear commitments to MySQL as part of the EU Commission investigations into the purchase of Sun. Take a look into what really happened, and the claims made by Mr. Widenius (primary original author of MySQL), vs the statements made by Marten Mickos (former CEO of MySQL)... maybe you'll learn something about the person behind MariaDB. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 05/04/2010 08:30 AM, C wrote:

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 15:07, Robert Schweikert wrote:

...

With mysql now owned by Oracle, who knows how long it'll be maintained.

Oracle has made a public statement about its commitment to MySQL http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/042364 Insinuating that Oracle will stop maintaining MySQL is stirring up the FUD and nothing more. Oracle had to make clear commitments to MySQL as part of the EU Commission investigations into the purchase of Sun.

Take a look into what really happened, and the claims made by Mr. Widenius (primary original author of MySQL), vs the statements made by Marten Mickos (former CEO of MySQL)... maybe you'll learn something about the person behind MariaDB.

C.

Troublesome: 2. Non-assertion. As copyright holder, Oracle will change Sun’s current policy and shall not assert or threaten to assert against anyone that a third party vendor’s implementations of storage engines must be released under the GPL because they have implemented the application programming interfaces available as part of MySQL’s Pluggable Storage Engine Architecture. A commercial license will not be required by Oracle from third party storage engine vendors in order to implement the application programming interfaces available as part of MySQL's Pluggable Storage Engine Architecture. Reassuring: 9. MySQL Reference Manual. Oracle will continue to maintain, update and make available for download at no charge a MySQL Reference Manual similar in quality to that currently made available by Sun. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 05/04/2010 10:01 AM, C wrote:

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 15:43, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

Troublesome:

2. Non-assertion. As copyright holder, Oracle will change Sun’s current policy and shall not assert or threaten to assert against anyone that a third party vendor’s implementations of storage engines must be released under the GPL because they have implemented the application programming interfaces available as part of MySQL’s Pluggable Storage Engine Architecture.

A commercial license will not be required by Oracle from third party storage engine vendors in order to implement the application programming interfaces available as part of MySQL's Pluggable Storage Engine Architecture.

You have to love/hate legalese... depending how you read this.. doesn't it seem to lift some of the more draconian Sun restrictions.. and now basically says if you use the API, you don't have to GPL the result?

Yes, if one favors the take, extend, embrace, and don't give back model, than this is a wonderful change. This change certainly opens the doors into the proprietary abyss. Robert

C.

-- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Software Engineer Consultant LINUX rschweikert@novell.com 781-464-8147 Novell Making IT Work As One -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 05/04/2010 10:00 AM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

* C (smaug42@gmail.com) [20100504 16:02]:

...

doesn't it seem to lift some of the more draconian Sun restrictions.. and now basically says if you use the API, you don't have to GPL the result?

And thus opens the gate for the folks that take stuff from the comunity and never give anything back.

Philipp

Robert, Phillip: +1 ... Exactly! -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, May 04, 2010 at 08:37:50AM -0500, David C. Rankin wrote:

Thanks, Robert, Clayton

It's always a surprise when a bombshell like this drops and your are left wondering "... not even a peep on the list prior to the update?" "do they think people just won't notice stuff like this?"...

What mysql update are you talking about? Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* David C. Rankin [05-04-10 18:50]:

I did an update yesterday and with zypper's or yast's 'magic' the 'update' deleted mysql from my system and replaced it with 'MariaDB'. I sure in the heck didn't tell it to do that. Somebody at Novell included code somewhere that says "On the next update, delete mysql and replace it with MariaDB -- and don't make it obvious to the user."

Novell ??? Are you grasping straws? Or just flailing out where-ever? -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 04 May 2010 19:46:55 -0700, Linda Walsh wrote:

Doesn't Novell have some final say-so on SuSE, since the first step to their SLED product?

Nope, SLE(D) and openSUSE are two different pair of shoes.

it's what feeds their prime linux offering.

What makes you think so? Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 05 May 2010 05:44:31 Brian K. White wrote:

On 5/4/2010 7:20 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* David C. Rankin [05-04-10 18:50]:

...

I did an update yesterday and with zypper's or yast's 'magic' the 'update' deleted mysql from my system and replaced it with 'MariaDB'. I sure in the heck didn't tell it to do that. Somebody at Novell included code somewhere that says "On the next update, delete mysql and replace it with MariaDB -- and don't make it obvious to the user."

Novell ???

Are you grasping straws? Or just flailing out where-ever?

I know, this discussion is hilarious to witness.

People, your systems were not changed by any mystery. Novell did not make any such arbitrary disruptive change to your system. OpenSUSE 11.2 updates repo still has mysql and no mariadb in it.

That means if your system changed to mariadb during an update, it was because you ASKED for this to happen by adding some other repo to your install sources, and then performed a blind update instead of of reviewing the proposed update.

So, you went out of your way to add some external repo, and then you used it irresponsibly, and then you accused Novell of breaking your system. This is why big companies remove freedoms from the rest of us. Thanks.

One thing i have noticed over the past 18 months to 2 years is .. ,, When someone somewhere in Novelle/openSUSE drops a brick the first thing that happens is the buck is passed out to the users very quickly , This is NOT a good way to go A little LESS buck passing and a bit more oh S**T we frelled up would go a long long long way know what i mean . Pete bemused -- Powered by openSUSE 11.2 Milestone 2 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.30-rc6-git3-4- default KDE: 4.2.86 (KDE 4.2.86 (KDE 4.3 >= 20090514)) "release 1" 07:52 up 12 days 19:33, 3 users, load average: 0.02, 0.04, 0.00

-----Original Message----- From: Peter Nikolic [mailto:p.nikolic1@btinternet.com] Sent: 05 May 2010 07:56 To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] What is 'MariaDB' and what has it done with my mysql?? On Wednesday 05 May 2010 05:44:31 Brian K. White wrote:

On 5/4/2010 7:20 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* David C. Rankin [05-04-10 18:50]:

...

I did an update yesterday and with zypper's or yast's 'magic' the 'update' deleted mysql from my system and replaced it with 'MariaDB'. I sure in the heck didn't tell it to do that. Somebody at Novell included code somewhere that says "On the next update, delete mysql and replace it with MariaDB -- and don't make it obvious to the user."

Novell ???

Are you grasping straws? Or just flailing out where-ever?

I know, this discussion is hilarious to witness.

People, your systems were not changed by any mystery. Novell did not make any such arbitrary disruptive change to your system. OpenSUSE 11.2 updates repo still has mysql and no mariadb in it.

That means if your system changed to mariadb during an update, it was because you ASKED for this to happen by adding some other repo to your install sources, and then performed a blind update instead of of reviewing the proposed update.

So, you went out of your way to add some external repo, and then you used it irresponsibly, and then you accused Novell of breaking your system. This is why big companies remove freedoms from the rest of us. Thanks.

One thing i have noticed over the past 18 months to 2 years is .. ,, When someone somewhere in Novelle/openSUSE drops a brick the first thing that happens is the buck is passed out to the users very quickly , This is NOT a good way to go A little LESS buck passing and a bit more oh S**T we frelled up would go a long long long way know what i mean . Pete bemused Did you read the email Pete? It certainly looks like you didn't. If you add repos to your system from the build service, you can't blame 'Novelle' when those get updated. You have asked for the cutting edge, you're getting it. You can't complain about that. If it didn't get updated, you'd be the first to complain, as per usual. Pete -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 05/04/2010 11:44 PM, Brian K. White wrote:

On 5/4/2010 7:20 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* David C. Rankin [05-04-10 18:50]:

...

I did an update yesterday and with zypper's or yast's 'magic' the 'update' deleted mysql from my system and replaced it with 'MariaDB'. I sure in the heck didn't tell it to do that. Somebody at Novell included code somewhere that says "On the next update, delete mysql and replace it with MariaDB -- and don't make it obvious to the user."

Novell ???

Are you grasping straws? Or just flailing out where-ever?

I know, this discussion is hilarious to witness.

People, your systems were not changed by any mystery. Novell did not make any such arbitrary disruptive change to your system. OpenSUSE 11.2 updates repo still has mysql and no mariadb in it.

That means if your system changed to mariadb during an update, it was because you ASKED for this to happen by adding some other repo to your install sources, and then performed a blind update instead of of reviewing the proposed update.

So, you went out of your way to add some external repo, and then you used it irresponsibly, and then you accused Novell of breaking your system. This is why big companies remove freedoms from the rest of us. Thanks.

Oh contrair BKW, With a massive update-all, and no asking for Maria, she appeared out of the light like a moth drawn to a flame. While I did have the obs-database repository activated, on investigation, is still contains both mysql and mariadb. There is logic somewhere that was inserted that says mariadb=mysql or my system would have never pulled in a package on 'update' that was not previously 'installed' before. Sure sounds like someone doesn't want to end up with egg on their face :p -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 5/5/2010 8:49 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:

On 05/04/2010 11:44 PM, Brian K. White wrote:

...

On 5/4/2010 7:20 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* David C. Rankin [05-04-10 18:50]:

...

I did an update yesterday and with zypper's or yast's 'magic' the 'update' deleted mysql from my system and replaced it with 'MariaDB'. I sure in the heck didn't tell it to do that. Somebody at Novell included code somewhere that says "On the next update, delete mysql and replace it with MariaDB -- and don't make it obvious to the user."

Novell ???

Are you grasping straws? Or just flailing out where-ever?

I know, this discussion is hilarious to witness.

People, your systems were not changed by any mystery. Novell did not make any such arbitrary disruptive change to your system. OpenSUSE 11.2 updates repo still has mysql and no mariadb in it.

That means if your system changed to mariadb during an update, it was because you ASKED for this to happen by adding some other repo to your install sources, and then performed a blind update instead of of reviewing the proposed update.

So, you went out of your way to add some external repo, and then you used it irresponsibly, and then you accused Novell of breaking your system. This is why big companies remove freedoms from the rest of us. Thanks.

Oh contrair BKW,

With a massive update-all, and no asking for Maria, she appeared out of the light like a moth drawn to a flame. While I did have the obs-database repository activated, on investigation, is still contains both mysql and mariadb. There is logic somewhere that was inserted that says mariadb=mysql or my system would have never pulled in a package on 'update' that was not previously 'installed' before. Sure sounds like someone doesn't want to end up with egg on their face :p

What do you mean contraire? You just said exactly what I said. How is that contraire. Apparently we have not been clear enough. If you do not understand how adding extra install sources works, then do not use them. If you do not understand how rpms work, then do not use any that did not come from you original install dvd. Just buy a dvd, install from that, and do not add anything else, and you will never have these mysteries. Nothing happened that you did not _ask for_. If you do not understand how you asked for this, that's no one elses fault. If I sound a little more annoyed over this than would seem reasonable it's because this is really part of a larger problem, which is a huge problem that apparently will never leave the human race. Like I said, THIS is why companies never allow any sort of freedoms with their products. Because every time they do the slightest little bit, users just mess everything up and then accuse the vendor of shipping something broken and make the vendor eat the cost of giving the user a whole new whatever-it-was-they-broke. It's like giving someone this amazing powerful new tool, fire, and they burn themselves with it, and then they accuse you of burning them and try to get you locked up. The only sane response is don't give people fire. Oh well, without fire they'll freeze in the winter and they can't fashion steel tools to do other work and basically they'll miss out on civilization, but I can't help that, when I gave them fire they attacked me. If they manage to discover it on their own that's nice, but I can't help, because I can't afford to be attacked, I have my own family to look out for. Too bad it also means no one else can help me either because they don't know if I'll attack them for it. They don't dare tell me about electricity for instance so I miss out on that. So there we are, a world full of people who are forced to avoid anything like cooperation and generosity. Did you happen to read the book or see the movie Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy? There was a scene where this planet had a life form that sensed intelligent imaginative thought and any time it sensed any it smacked it. So the dominant life form evolved to avoid thinking intelligently or imaginatively. That's US. You help, you get burned, you stop helping. Thanks for helping continue that "don't help because it just gets you attacked" world. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, May 04, 2010 at 07:20:40PM -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* David C. Rankin [05-04-10 18:50]:

...

I did an update yesterday and with zypper's or yast's 'magic' the 'update' deleted mysql from my system and replaced it with 'MariaDB'. I sure in the heck didn't tell it to do that. Somebody at Novell included code somewhere that says "On the next update, delete mysql and replace it with MariaDB -- and don't make it obvious to the user."

Novell ???

Are you grasping straws? Or just flailing out where-ever?

Actually I think David has server:database added or some other OBS repo. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 04/05/10 23:47, David C. Rankin wrote:

I did an update yesterday and with zypper's or yast's 'magic' the 'update' deleted mysql from my system and replaced it with 'MariaDB'. I sure in the heck didn't tell it to do that. Somebody at Novell included code somewhere that says "On the next update, delete mysql and replace it with MariaDB -- and don't make it obvious to the user."

I do have OBS-database as a repository and looking at the individual repos, that is where 'sweet Maria' must have come from. I think you are safe as long as you don't have the database repo active. (Of course, I could be wrong there - you might meet her on your next date .. I mean update ;-)

That was slightly inflammatory ... You are using an OBS repository. Not inherently bad, but don't use 'em mindlessly - and certainly don't claim that what you got from there is a "system update" - cause its not, it may not even be from Novell/SUSE, and you chose it. You didn't read the package list from the zypper up. Hence, its entirely your own fault if you don't notice what happens to your system. Noone at anywhere said "don't make it obvious to the user". The secret code that decides to install packages is called ... wait for it ... RPM! And believe it or not, it doesn't operate on Novell's (or MS, or Linus, or Stallman) instructions. Its workings are entirely transparent. Don't try shifting the blame to SUSE by pointing at zypper or Yast. They're just frontends. What (I am guessing) happened is that someone created a new mariadb package in OBS:server:database. This is completely reasonable, as it is interesting new software. In the spec file they wrote "Provides: mysql = %{version} Obsoletes: mysql < %{version}" which is sort-of true, you certainly don't want both installed at the same time, and mariadb does provide everything that mysql did. At this point it is literally a complete copy as far as I can tell. RPM then had a look at this package and said look! A new package that obsoletes one I've got installed! Let's update! And unfortunately you didn't read when it told you it was going to do this so it went ahead. In fact looking at the mariadb specfile, what I described above is exactly what happened. I doubt the author of the mariadb package wanted to force everyone to switch to mariadb. The simple fix is to no longer have mariadb "Obsolete: mysql" but simply "Conflict: mysql". 2 minutes work. Everyone, no need to go crazy assigning blame over a trivial error. There is no evidence that anyone has any hidden agenda, and *no evidence that the default in Factory or future released versions is going to change*. mariadb isn't even in Factory. Someone packaged mariadb in a side project is all. News at 11. Regards, Tejas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org