On Sunday 26 February 2006 21:25, houghi wrote:

On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 11:40:09AM +1100, Peter Flodin wrote:

...

On 2/27/06, houghi wrote:

...

On FOSDEM I understood that the won't be a downloadable DVD. On http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse/2006-Jan/0542.html I read that there will be a DVD. SO what is it going to be?

houghi

Unless something has recently changed, DVD for 10.1 is the same as for 10.0 and all explained on this page: http://en.opensuse.org/Media_layout

ie there is no OSS DVD, so download.openSUSE.org and its mirrors will not host a DVD.

On FOSDEM I clearly heard the statement that thre would be no DVD for download. The statement I heard said: Two versions. Boxed and download. Question from the audience: Will there be a DVD or only 5 CD's. Answer, only 5 CD's, because a lot of the infratructure we use can not handle files larger then 2GB.

That is the reason for my question. The URL's above I am aware of. The statement on FOSDEM was the most recent, so it could be that there has been a change.

houghi

I have to say, I'm a bit confused by this. I had thought the DVD would be available, with a CD of non-OSS materials seperately. I mainly thought this because of how the new layout of the CD's, the dropping of OSS vs non-OSS, the whole evaluation DVD, etc, etc, etc. I'll be purchasing the box set as I usually do... do you know if the DVD will definitely include non-OSS? Joseph M. Gaffney aka CuCullin

Viras wrote:

The boxed set will contain a DVD. There only wont be a downloadable DVD at the website (at least that's what they said at the FOSDEM).

plenty of room for "makeDVD" :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

On Monday 27 February 2006 14:02, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

A "wise" decision

I don't know if I agree. I like the dvd - more packages, less media and burning, faster installation. A lot of mirrors have been providing the dvd.iso for 10.0, should be possible to do the same for 10.1. At the very least provide dvd.iso-torrents if the reason is truly a technical one concerning http-servers. But I guess we haven't had final confirmation yet whether there'll be a downloadable dvd or not - at least from the SUSE-mirrors. Not having the dvd on OpenSUSE-mirrors makes sense, of course. cb400f

Am Dienstag, 28. Februar 2006 02:36 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

The Monday 2006-02-27 at 14:02 +0100, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

...

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006, Viras wrote:

...

The boxed set will contain a DVD. There only wont be a downloadable DVD at the website (at least that's what they said at the FOSDEM).

A "wise" decision, as long as not even the 10.0-supplied apache is able to deliver files > 2 GB.

I'm curious. O:-)

Does downloading a dvd image have more impact of an ftp server than downloading (or installing) from the classical ftp tree, ie, each separate rpm? I mean, of course, with many simultaneous clients, as in gwdg.

I think it is more a case that some software is still compiled without big file support, so the files over 2GB either crap-out or they get truncated. Firefox, for example, has problems with large ISO's, downloading the Debian DVD image with firefox made a 2GB file out of the original ~4GB ISO on the server. With the advent of fast internet connections and large multimedia files, it looks like some tools are still struggling to catch up. Hopefully big file support will be included soon... Dave -- "I got to go figure," the tenant said. "We all got to figure. There's some way to stop this. It's not like lightning or earthquakes. We've got a bad thing made by men, and by God that's something we can change." - The Grapes of Wrath, by John Steinbeck

Am Dienstag, 28. Februar 2006 21:10 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

The Tuesday 2006-02-28 at 08:08 +0100, David Wright wrote:

...

I think it is more a case that some software is still compiled without big file support, so the files over 2GB either crap-out or they get truncated.

Firefox, for example, has problems with large ISO's, downloading the Debian DVD image with firefox made a 2GB file out of the original ~4GB ISO on the server.

I would never dare to dowload such a big file using firefox or mozilla... I wouldn't download even a 10 Mb file with it, it has barfed on me at mid-download so many times on me... :-(

Just downloaded 6GB from IBM using their download manager Java program under Firefox, although that wasn't one file, the biggest file was only 1.8GB. Apart from the odd server reset I've not seen any problems with it. Dave -- "I got to go figure," the tenant said. "We all got to figure. There's some way to stop this. It's not like lightning or earthquakes. We've got a bad thing made by men, and by God that's something we can change." - The Grapes of Wrath, by John Steinbeck

Am Mittwoch, 1. März 2006 02:37 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

The Tuesday 2006-02-28 at 21:56 +0100, David Wright wrote:

...

...

I would never dare to dowload such a big file using firefox or mozilla... I wouldn't download even a 10 Mb file with it, it has barfed on me at mid-download so many times on me... :-(

Just downloaded 6GB from IBM using their download manager Java program under Firefox, although that wasn't one file, the biggest file was only 1.8GB. Apart from the odd server reset I've not seen any problems with it.

My adsl can change IP in the middle of a download - it did that, in fact, last time I tried downloading a 80 Mb file with Mozilla when there were only 15 Mb or so left. Mozilla download manager whatever did not recover, it just stuck there. I "Cancelled" it, lost the already downloaded part, and retried with wget instead.

Maybe you have a fully reliable network, or better luck.

Ah, ok... My router has a nice function which allows you to set the time to re-establish the connection, it is currently set for a 03:00 reconnect, an the provider only resets the IP once every 24 hours... Dave -- "I got to go figure," the tenant said. "We all got to figure. There's some way to stop this. It's not like lightning or earthquakes. We've got a bad thing made by men, and by God that's something we can change." - The Grapes of Wrath, by John Steinbeck

On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 02:02:40PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Those IP changes seem to happen randomly, perhaps when they are doing maintenance or some thing. Just in case, I reconnected my router to my UPS: perhaps I had a micro-power outage that reset my adsl router.

It could be done on purpose. In Belgium many ADSL connections loose their IP after 36 (I think) hours. This is a pure business decision so people who want a fixed IP will need to pay more. It could be that this is the case with you as well. Best ask your provider.

No big deal, I don't have an Internet domain name to keep updated ;-)

Dynamic DNS should help you there a bit, as long as you can live with 1 minute timeouts from time to time. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 04:43:52PM +0100, jdd wrote:

no. it's a load balancing problem between servers, most of the users shut down the computer a night, so the servers needs to be re-balanced from time to time.

That could be the case in France, although I believe it to be utter and complete bollocks. Especially when you see that DHCP can give you a fixed IP adress. In Belgium when you take a more expensive account type, you will still be connected to the identical infrastructure. You will get a fixed IP adress with those, that is the main difference. re-balancing does not mean that they need to throw away your IP adress and give you a new one. They could give you a semi-fixed IP adress that is released after 24 hours of not being connected with a certain MAC adress. That way you will have the same IP adress as long as you are connected. If you are disconnected for longer then 24 hours (say over the weekend) then you get a new IP adress.

...

Dynamic DNS should help you there a bit, as long as you can live with 1 minute timeouts from time to time.

don't know. dyndns don't solve the IP problem. need to know is the sending server looks at the name or at the IP once the connexion is running

I was refering to the domain part, not the IP part. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 05:57:57PM +0100, jdd wrote:

houghi wrote:

...

complete bollocks. Especially when you see that DHCP can give you a fixed IP adress.

I can't say that for sure. the case of a network with 10 computers and the one with thousand is quite different. My ISF (Free) don't charge anything to have a fixed IP (what I have), but each client is stuck to a precise server at the end of it's line.

So in France the situation is different. The best is to ask the provider why they do it. Still strange that they change the IP every 24 hours. If you are connected and have an IP adress, there should be no reason as to why you should get another IP adress. They could even do a new IP with every connection, if they want to. and drop the 24 hours. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 10:03:54PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So in my case it can be a small power glitch that forced my router to reset and retrain, or something on my ISP side.

Contact your provider and ask them if they are able to tell what is happening or why they give a new IP or at least when they give out a new IP. Depending on the quality of the helpdesk, this might need to be answerd by somebody not on thephone (2nd or even 3rd level)

If I can discover a way to log the IP number the router gets, then I could investigate. I can ssh to my router and learn the IP, but it is not easy to automatize.

It depends on your router. If you can get it with something else then SSH (e.g. via a website) then it should be very easy. I have a script that look each minute if the IP adress on my router has changed. It should not be too difficult to change it to log your IP changed and the time the changes occour. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

Chop the file up into smaller chunks... then the user (that wants a DVD image) can cat it back together. A DVD install is much nicer than a multiple CD install. You can get Dual layer DVD Burners for $39 if you know where to look. On 2/28/06, David Wright wrote:

Am Dienstag, 28. Februar 2006 02:36 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

The Monday 2006-02-27 at 14:02 +0100, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

...

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006, Viras wrote:

...

The boxed set will contain a DVD. There only wont be a downloadable DVD at the website (at least that's what they said at the FOSDEM).

A "wise" decision, as long as not even the 10.0-supplied apache is able to deliver files > 2 GB.

I'm curious. O:-)

Does downloading a dvd image have more impact of an ftp server than downloading (or installing) from the classical ftp tree, ie, each separate rpm? I mean, of course, with many simultaneous clients, as in gwdg.

I think it is more a case that some software is still compiled without big file support, so the files over 2GB either crap-out or they get truncated.

Firefox, for example, has problems with large ISO's, downloading the Debian DVD image with firefox made a 2GB file out of the original ~4GB ISO on the server.

With the advent of fast internet connections and large multimedia files, it looks like some tools are still struggling to catch up. Hopefully big file support will be included soon...

Dave -- "I got to go figure," the tenant said. "We all got to figure. There's some way to stop this. It's not like lightning or earthquakes. We've got a bad thing made by men, and by God that's something we can change." - The Grapes of Wrath, by John Steinbeck

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-- "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

that would be a neat trick to put the 5 iso images onto a DVD disc... boot from it and install SuSE. Is there some special magic you know about that I don't? Who gives a flip what currency it is in? The point is that MOST people now have the ability to boot from DVD. Installing from DVD is preferable than installing from CD. If it is too difficult a concept to support the user community then I guess the users move on. Users have been asking for DVD ISO's for a long time... its comes down to aquestion do you supply what the user wants or not. The more users you have using SuSE the more corporations that will use it when there is a question between SLES and Dead Rat. so it is *49.2650078 Euro http://www.outpost.com/entry?site=op:mfe031406&sku=4761159 Eitherway... put the dvd iso's up there and they will come. * On 3/18/06, houghi wrote:

On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 09:51:40AM -0600, John Ahrends wrote:

...

Chop the file up into smaller chunks... then the user (that wants a DVD image) can cat it back together. A DVD install is much nicer than a multiple CD install. You can get Dual layer DVD Burners for $39 if you know where to look.

1) Please do not toppost 2) All the available ISOs fit on one single layer DVD. You still will have place available for extra RPM's So for that purpose you do not need a Dual layer DVD burner. 3) Not all people pay in USD. ;-)

houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

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-- "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

At the time that I posted that... the particular Drive was on sale for $39 US.... it is now $59... That particular vendor constantly has DVD drives for $cheap. The point is that DVDs drives are becoming a norm. It is getting to the point that it is more mainstream to have a DVD drive in a machine than it is to have a CDR only. I am just pointing out where the mainstream user will be. If you look at all the other distro's they are offering DVD ISO images because they understand that. The bottom line is this. I have supported SuSE as long as I have because I ran it on my PC first. If you want SuSE to grow you need the desktop users to find it and love it. I have been a SuSE supporter Since 4.4.1.. before that it was slackware so the transition makes sense. I put SLES any where I can because I know how good SuSE is. If I was coming into this game now I might pass on SuSE to go to another distro because I don't like messing with 5 CD's when I can put on another distro that provides a DVD. On 3/18/06, houghi wrote:

On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 10:35:57AM -0600, John Ahrends wrote:

...

that would be a neat trick to put the 5 iso images onto a DVD disc... boot from it and install SuSE.

Is there some special magic you know about that I don't?

1) Please do not toppost. Please read http://en.opensuse.org/Opensuse_mailing_list_netiquette

2) It would indeed be a need trick to put 5 ISOs (or 6 soon) on one DVD. I use makeSUSEdvd for that. I put the (softlinks to) the 6 CD's in one directory and run it with: makeSUSEdvd -o ../dvd -a /usr/src/packages/RPMS/ That adds several RPMs I have on the DVD as well that are not available anywhere else and can be installed during the installation.

...

Who gives a flip what currency it is in?

The people taking the money. When you are talking about USD, you mostly also talk about the US only. Many people live in places that do not have the USD as a currency. Furthermore many of these places have TVA wich will make the price you claim is possible not achievable.

...

so it is *49.2650078 Euro

http://www.outpost.com/entry?site=op:mfe031406&sku=4761159

That gives me a price of almost 60USD, not 39USD you claimed. A difference of 50%. Also I would have I looked and was unable to see how I could order it and what the price would be for me.

Prices for Belgium are around 50EUR http://www.mpl.be/products.aspx?id=30&sid=195 YMMV

...

Eitherway... put the dvd iso's up there and they will come.

Uhm. Nobody said they would not be put online, because they are. The ISOs they put online are single layer ones. They contain the same as the 5 CDs. However they are not available for Beta. I could even imagine that for future beta's (10.2) only the 3 CD's will be online and the rest via FTP. Or at least for the Alpha's and the first few Beta's. Only the last 2 Beta's and the RC could have 5(6) CD's online for testing purposes.

houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

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-- "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

John Ahrends wrote:

I have been a SuSE supporter Since 4.4.1.. before that it was slackware so the transition makes sense. I put SLES any where I can because I know how good SuSE is. If I was coming into this game now I might pass on SuSE to go to another distro because I don't like messing with 5 CD's when I can put on another distro that provides a DVD.

relax, take a nap and you will feel better. SUSE IS providing a DVD for the stable release. and anyway, why download a hole DVD (which is always quite long) when you can have a small cd and install by ftp? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

If I choose to top post I will... Because that is how e-mail works... Just because someone knew to the internet decides he wants to impose some stupid NEW rules e-mail doesnt mean I give a rats ass. On 3/18/06, houghi wrote:

On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 12:52:43PM -0600, John Ahrends wrote: <snip>

...

I have been a SuSE supporter Since 4.4.1.. before that it was slackware so the transition makes sense. I put SLES any where I can because I know how

If I want to middle post... I guess I just did.

...

to another distro because I don't like messing with 5 CD's when I can

good SuSE is. If I was coming into this game now I might pass on SuSE to go put on

...

another distro that provides a DVD.

Are you dence, stupid or just unable to read?

1) DO NOT TOPPOST <-----<<< DON"T TYPE IN ALL CAPS... :) 2) SUSE provides a DVD iso 3) It is SUSE now and not SuSE anymore. (5 points if your 80 IQ tell tell me what SuSE stood for... without looking it up on the net)

If I want to continue to refer to S.u.S.E. I will. If I want to invite you to go take a flying leap... well you get the picture. houghi

-- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

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-- "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

That is funny... No I did not start out on AOL.... I do remember when AOL did not provide a proper internet connection. I also would tend to wager that my progress with tech has eclipsed you a bit grasshopper. I remember when people of your caliber were posting on news groups with an endless "Me too!" Don't worry this is my last post as I have better things to do than to bicker with Y'all about where to type a response... Oh and by the way... the top post was an accident... its a habbit from my REAL job... The way everone else in the known universe converses in e-mail. It makes it easier to read because you know that the person you are receiving the e-mail from is the guy on top... what a concept. On 3/18/06, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* John Ahrends [03-18-06 22:35]:

...

If I choose to top post I will... Because that is how e-mail works... Just because someone knew to the internet decides he wants to impose some stupid NEW rules e-mail doesnt mean I give a rats ass.

Your choice. But you may not receive many more responses. And you may have been around for a while, but I suspect you started on aol and except for your move to linux, haven't progressed much.

:0 #<plonk> * ^From john\.ahrends\@gmail\.com /dev/null

-- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2

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-- "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

On 3/19/06, Glenn Holmer wrote:

On Saturday 18 March 2006 21:55, John Ahrends wrote:

...

That is funny... No I did not start out on AOL.... I do remember when AOL did not provide a proper internet connection. I also would tend to wager that my progress with tech has eclipsed you a bit grasshopper.

Heh... I remember when AOL was a Commodore 64-only dialup network called QuantumLink. Now I use one of my SUSE boxen to route serial traffic from my Commodore over the net:

http://quantum-link.org/

-- ====================================================== Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682) ====================================================== "Greater coherence cannot be achieved. Not even the Netherlanders have managed this." -Anton Webern ======================================================

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Thats very kewl. My first computer had 4K of RAM. -- "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

On Sat, 2006-03-18 at 21:55 -0600, John Ahrends wrote:

That is funny... No I did not start out on AOL.... I do remember when AOL did not provide a proper internet connection. I also would tend to wager that my progress with tech has eclipsed you a bit grasshopper.

I remember when people of your caliber were posting on news groups with an endless "Me too!"

Don't worry this is my last post as I have better things to do than to bicker with Y'all about where to type a response...

Oh and by the way... the top post was an accident... its a habbit from my REAL job... The way everone else in the known universe converses in e-mail.

It -may- work in conversational email, but -not- in question/answer email. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:32:38 -0600, John Ahrends wrote:

decides he wants to impose some stupid NEW rules e-mail doesnt mean I give a rats ass.

Those rules, commonly known as netiquette, go back to the times when internet was a purely academic thing, i.e. they are roughly two decades old. Philipp

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:20:44 -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:

That was the mid to late 70's. So that would be 3 decades.

I thought so, but wasn't sure, having come to the net in the late 80's.

Just because MS can not follow standards

I guess that's bashing the wrong one. All those people that came to internet when it went commercial basically only learned of such rules by chance. Add to that lame excuses of a MUA like Lotus Notes and you've got all ingredients :(( Philipp

On 3/19/06, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:20:44 -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:

...

That was the mid to late 70's. So that would be 3 decades. I thought so, but wasn't sure, having come to the net in the late 80's.

...

Just because MS can not follow standards

I guess that's bashing the wrong one. All those people that came to internet when it went commercial basically only learned of such rules by chance. Add to that lame excuses of a MUA like Lotus Notes and you've got all ingredients :((

Maybe, I was thinking of the broken OutLook and OutLook Express. I remember doing a beta and trying to convice them to change the behavior. To make it more standard. Then they released the first version and it has been that way ever since.

-- Boyd Gerber ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047

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Its all opinion...

And Outbreak is not an e-mail client I would use. Pine is what I started with. Its all about people thinking that their way is the only way. I like reading from the top because that is the last post... makes it easier to read for me.... if I am keeping up that is all I need to read... if it is not I can just scroll down and work my way up... If you havent guessed by now I love yanking the chains of people who think they are better than everyone else when most of the time they are just wannabe's In case you want to accuse me of some M$ bigotry I can save you the trouble. I only use windows when forced into it. I used to hate AOL. Now I know it is a good place for some people to start (internet with training wheels) Again this really started because someone wanted to try and tell me that my preference to download a DVD iso was stupid. I like having one disc... now if SuSE was to get as stable as Debian is as far as installing from one disk. I guess there is more amunition for Y'all to chomp on... :) -- "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

Hi, On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Monday 2006-02-27 at 14:02 +0100, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

...

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006, Viras wrote:

...

...

The boxed set will contain a DVD. There only wont be a downloadable DVD at the website (at least that's what they said at the FOSDEM).

A "wise" decision, as long as not even the 10.0-supplied apache is able to deliver files > 2 GB.

I'm curious. O:-)

Does downloading a dvd image have more impact of an ftp server than downloading (or installing) from the classical ftp tree, ie, each separate rpm? I mean, of course, with many simultaneous clients, as in gwdg.

Downloading a big image causes much less filesystem operations at the server than fetching a bunch of single files. At ftp.gwdg.de, just the filesystem I/O is the bottleneck. But usually at the home user side the network is the bottleneck, so it makes sense to use an external server as the installation source. This way, much less volume has to get transfered. But if the servers have a high load, this "less volume" transfer may need longer than the "big volume", due to filesystem latencies. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)

Hi, On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Tuesday 2006-02-28 at 08:35 +0100, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

...

...

Does downloading a dvd image have more impact of an ftp server than downloading (or installing) from the classical ftp tree, ie, each separate rpm? I mean, of course, with many simultaneous clients, as in gwdg.

Downloading a big image causes much less filesystem operations at the server than fetching a bunch of single files. At ftp.gwdg.de, just the filesystem I/O is the bottleneck.

I see.

I was wrong then, I thought that many people downloading the iso images would be heavier on you than the same users installing by ftp.

...

But usually at the home user side the network is the bottleneck, so it makes sense to use an external server as the installation source. This way, much less volume has to get transfered.

Yes, that part I knew ;-)

...

But if the servers have a high load, this "less volume" transfer may need longer than the "big volume", due to filesystem latencies.

Yes, that's easy to understand.

And I suppose that those programs that download big files retrieving diferent chunks (start points) at the same time from the same server makes things worse, specially for the rest of the users. :-?

I have seen that working, but I have always refused to do it myself.

I'm not clear what the real consequences for the server are, and they may be different between 2.4 and 2.6 kernels and between 32 and 64 bit systems. At least I tolerate such behaviour, thinking that there is a good chance that the inode data still are in cache when the second chunk gets requested, resulting in less filesystem I/O for "finding" the chunk. But with 32 bit arch and 2.4 kernels this probably is not very much the case, because the inode cache is very much limited in size (and more limited in SUSE kernels than in vanilla, to reduce the chance of hash collisions). But anyways, it is nothing else than 10 users fetching the same file at the same time, but somewhat "asynchronously". Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)

Ah, that would explain why I can't backup my DVD (I only have 1-sided media). The boxed version most definetly will. It will be dual layer and contain

much more then the 5 CD's + 1 CD.

houghi --

On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 02:43:30PM +0100, Christoph Thiel wrote:

We will offer a DVD5 (via ftp.suse.com), that will be equal to CD5+1.

Ok. Clear. It was not clear with what was said on FOSDEM. Or at least how I understood it.

That should clear the confusion, right? ;) Just for the record:

- http://en.opensuse.org/Media_layout !!

Already know the page (look at the history. ;-). houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 04:42:23PM +0100, Peter Czanik wrote:

Thanks. I really hate burning CDs, but a DVD5 is still worth starting k3b :) My mirror infrastructure runs on FreeBSD, so large files could not cause me a problem in the past 5+ years :)

I just burn a DVD on a rewritable to test makeSUSEdvd, installation I do without the disk. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Liviu Damian wrote:

On Monday 27 February 2006 15:43, Christoph Thiel wrote:

...

We will offer a DVD5 (via ftp.suse.com), that will be equal to CD5+1.

Will you offer deltaiso for the dvd? A lot of people downloaded the Eval DVD for 10.0. It will be nice to have a deltaiso for it if the size will be considerably smaller (at most 40% of the full download size).

We will definitely look into that -- but I'm not sure if it makes much sense, if we only save 10-20%. Let's see how it works out as soon as 10.1 is final. Regards Christoph