[opensuse] Updates and other s/w management on 10.3
Why is it necessary to build a new database of patches every time I choose another YaST s/w function? The delays waiting to update or pick a new package are quite a time hit. Even if these processes just completed and I leave YaST an re-enter I have to wait again a very long time before I can choose another package. Switching between "Online Update" and "Software Management" does the same thing over again. Can't a system be designed to at least give the user the illusion that it is going faster? Cheers, Bob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 01 September 2007 14:58, Robert Lewis wrote:
Why is it necessary to build a new database of patches every time I choose another YaST s/w function?
The delays waiting to update or pick a new package are quite a time hit.
Even if these processes just completed and I leave YaST an re-enter I have to wait again a very long time before I can choose another package. Switching between "Online Update" and "Software Management" does the same thing over again.
Can't a system be designed to at least give the user the illusion that it is going faster?
Cheers, Bob
It is annoying, but software management is under heavy development and it is better all the time. Though, I complained on fact than YOU doesn't need to update world, but only one repository and I was not satisfied with comment. Bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=304211 was closed as invalid, but if you can see the same symptoms than please reopen it and attach /var/log/YaST2/y2log. To get very verbose output try from console: zypper -vvvvv ref | tee > refresh it will update all repositories, and console output will be written in file refresh. BTW, the best place for complains about Beta is opensuse-factory mail list. For developers is now very busy time and they probably follow bugzilla and factory list. Also check: http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs_10.3_dev -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 9/1/07, Rajko M.
On Saturday 01 September 2007 14:58, Robert Lewis wrote:
Why is it necessary to build a new database of patches every time I choose another YaST s/w function?
The delays waiting to update or pick a new package are quite a time hit.
Even if these processes just completed and I leave YaST an re-enter I have to wait again a very long time before I can choose another package. Switching between "Online Update" and "Software Management" does the same thing over again.
Can't a system be designed to at least give the user the illusion that it is going faster?
Cheers, Bob
It is annoying, but software management is under heavy development and it is better all the time. Though, I complained on fact than YOU doesn't need to update world, but only one repository and I was not satisfied with comment.
Bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=304211 was closed as invalid, but if you can see the same symptoms than please reopen it and attach /var/log/YaST2/y2log. To get very verbose output try from console: zypper -vvvvv ref | tee > refresh it will update all repositories, and console output will be written in file refresh.
BTW, the best place for complains about Beta is opensuse-factory mail list. For developers is now very busy time and they probably follow bugzilla and factory list. Also check: http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs_10.3_dev
-- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Is it normal with 10.3 Beta 2 for the little blue ICON in the bottom right to always say: " Unable to check whether updates are available" ? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 01 September 2007 17:46, Robert Lewis wrote: ...
Is it normal with 10.3 Beta 2 for the little blue ICON in the bottom right to always say: " Unable to check whether updates are available" ?
I'm not sure is there any bug, but it means that it can't access the update repository. Try: zypper sl and is is there listed anything "update". If not, you can add it with: zypper sa http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/update/10.3/ update it will add repository and name it 'update'. It is not real repository, just tests to see is update system working. Once you run them there will be no more notifications. -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 9/1/07, Rajko M.
On Saturday 01 September 2007 17:46, Robert Lewis wrote: ...
Is it normal with 10.3 Beta 2 for the little blue ICON in the bottom right to always say: " Unable to check whether updates are available" ?
I'm not sure is there any bug, but it means that it can't access the update repository. Try: zypper sl and is is there listed anything "update".
If not, you can add it with: zypper sa http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/update/10.3/ update it will add repository and name it 'update'.
It is not real repository, just tests to see is update system working. Once you run them there will be no more notifications.
-- Regards, Rajko.
Thanks Rajko. That works fast and it now turned the ICON to a red triangle with a exclamation mark in the center. At least it shows me how it will look. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 9/1/07, Robert Lewis
On 9/1/07, Rajko M.
wrote: On Saturday 01 September 2007 14:58, Robert Lewis wrote:
Why is it necessary to build a new database of patches every time I choose another YaST s/w function?
The delays waiting to update or pick a new package are quite a time hit.
Even if these processes just completed and I leave YaST an re-enter I have to wait again a very long time before I can choose another package. Switching between "Online Update" and "Software Management" does the same thing over again.
Can't a system be designed to at least give the user the illusion that it is going faster?
Cheers, Bob
It is annoying, but software management is under heavy development and it is better all the time. Though, I complained on fact than YOU doesn't need to update world, but only one repository and I was not satisfied with comment.
Bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=304211 was closed as invalid, but if you can see the same symptoms than please reopen it and attach /var/log/YaST2/y2log. To get very verbose output try from console: zypper -vvvvv ref | tee > refresh it will update all repositories, and console output will be written in file refresh.
BTW, the best place for complains about Beta is opensuse-factory mail list. For developers is now very busy time and they probably follow bugzilla and factory list. Also check: http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs_10.3_dev
-- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Is it normal with 10.3 Beta 2 for the little blue ICON in the bottom right to always say: " Unable to check whether updates are available" ?
When I boot my machine the OpenSUSE updater has a window that says downloading Updating This window is not movable and obscures other ICONS. When it finishes the Blue icon has a big question mark that says: "Unable to check whether upgrades are available". Is this expected behavior for the beta? Also, if I click on: "Online Update" in YaST I get back: "No Active Update Source is available". Perhaps this is because it is beta as well as I think the two are related.. By the way, on my Pentium III 1-GHZ machine by turning off Kerry / Beagle he software updater became a lot more responsive. Prior to that I was blaming the updater for being way to slow. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 01 September 2007 18:27, Robert Lewis wrote: ...
When it finishes the Blue icon has a big question mark that says: "Unable to check whether upgrades are available". Is this expected behavior for the beta?
Also, if I click on: "Online Update" in YaST I get back: "No Active Update Source is available". Perhaps this is because it is beta as well as I think the two are related..
Answer is in eralier post.
By the way, on my Pentium III 1-GHZ machine by turning off Kerry / Beagle he software updater became a lot more responsive. Prior to that I was blaming the updater for being way to slow.
You can count that Beagle is in the very beginning busy. Later on every few seconds it scans few pieces of information, not much of load even for your machine. They brought it pretty much under control. Second is zypper, once it has downloaded repositories metadata, it access only database and it is way faster, and much faster than 10.2. Though you can count if you close Software Management and again open after more than 10 minutes, it will check for changes again, and it will be somewhat slower, but never as it is immediately after installation. Betas (and other development versions) have no regular updates via YOU. It is used normal Software Management because all changes go direct in main Factory repository: http://en.opensuse.org/Factory but I would not recommend you to use it without more experience. Sometimes it is badly broken. I don't expect big problems now when it carries Beta software, but you never know. -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 02 September 2007, Robert Lewis wrote:
This window is not movable and obscures other ICONS.
If you single click on the window (well popup really) it goes away but it carries on working in the background. Double click the system tray icon to show the status again.
When it finishes the Blue icon has a big question mark that says: "Unable to check whether upgrades are available". Is this expected behavior for the beta?
Yeah, some days it works, some days it doesn't, typical early beta... John. -- -- Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 01 September 2007, Robert Lewis wrote:
Why is it necessary to build a new database of patches every time I choose another YaST s/w function?
The delays waiting to update or pick a new package are quite a time hit.
Even if these processes just completed and I leave YaST an re-enter I have to wait again a very long time before I can choose another package. Switching between "Online Update" and "Software Management" does the same thing over again.
Can't a system be designed to at least give the user the illusion that it is going faster?
Cheers, Bob
Not sure if this is your problem, but in Yast in Software Repositories, you can turn off Auto Update for the repositories, this is what forces zypper to re-download the full repo listing from the server everytime you so much as breathe. Instead it will just reload them from cache, which is quicker but still annoying. I've used every other major package management system out there, and I don't recall any of them being so slow, not even urpmi. I'm giving it some patience as it is under heavy development, but it had better improve by the RC's. Another thing, I hope they remember the ACID concepts before they finish zypper off, it really should complete all the package downloads first before trying to apply any packages, otherwise a download failure could leave you with a broken system. John. -- -- Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 02 September 2007 04:14, John Layt wrote:
I've used every other major package management system out there, and I don't recall any of them being so slow, not even urpmi. patience as it is under heavy development, but it had better improve by the RC's.
Better no rush. One of things that slows down the package management, besides that there are functions that will be optimized, is heavy logging necessary to hunt down bugs. What I value are improvements that I see, not time frame it happens.
Another thing, I hope they remember the ACID concepts before they finish zypper off, it really should complete all the package downloads first before trying to apply any packages, otherwise a download failure could leave you with a broken system.
It happens and it is normal during development, specially under heavy load, when you have to find time to go trough bug reports that are not always package management software although it is problem with software installation. -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 02 September 2007 11:14:41 am John Layt wrote:
Not sure if this is your problem, but in Yast in Software Repositories, you can turn off Auto Update for the repositories, this is what forces zypper to re-download the full repo listing from the server everytime you so much as breathe. Instead it will just reload them from cache, which is quicker but still annoying.
Even if autorefresh is on, refreshing repos is smart. It only download changed, non available files. (except for the repo index, which is used to check if it changed) Duncan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
"Robert Lewis"
Why is it necessary to build a new database of patches every time I choose another YaST s/w function?
The delays waiting to update or pick a new package are quite a time hit.
Even if these processes just completed and I leave YaST an re-enter I have to wait again a very long time before I can choose another package. Switching between "Online Update" and "Software Management" does the same thing over again.
Can't a system be designed to at least give the user the illusion that it is going faster?
Could you file a bugreport with some suggestions? thanks, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform/openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Can't a system be designed to at least give the user the illusion that it is going faster?
the point is an update of the data is necessary only when Yast install don't find on the server the package it looks for. you could then add the "refresh" option on the error message that is displayed at this time. you could also make this update nightly jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 02 September 2007 08:37, jdd wrote:
the point is an update of the data is necessary only when Yast install don't find on the server the package it looks for.
YaST doesn't browse server to see what is there, or ask for <file><version> and when it can't find it than update local database. If there is change on server, probably written in one small file that is fast to download, it will download changed files. The present feeling that is still slow is produced by fact that in Beta as installation source is used Factory that has always a lot of changes, and YaST has to update status very often, most of the time on every start. Once 10.3 get released the biggest repository (oss) that takes most of the time for update will be static, there will be no need for update and YaST will fly. That is what I have seen when Beta2 was released. Factory was frozen few days, and YaST sw_single was starting very fast. Of course there is place for improvement. One that I really would like to see is YOU. It should not look for other repositories than update. The part of it's function, security updates, requires known source of update, you can't allow 3rd party repositories to get in game trough dependencies, and that makes scan of all repositories pointless. Second possible speedup would be to use few mirrors at once if user has high speed Internet. Smart uses multiple connections, though I don't know is it with different mirrors. It downloads metadata very fast. That feeling is amplified with graphic layout that shows many downloads at once.
you could also make this update nightly
Right, but as mentioned above with Factory it will make not much difference, and later with static repo it would disappear as a problem. Besides, not many desktop users leave computer on all the time. Second, main number of complain comes from users used to wait until task is done, because many GUI programs tend to be designed to ask for permanent attention, insted to ask whatever has to be asked in the begin and then do their job in background. Even with very slow software management it is possible to do other tasks, and from time to time check what is done. -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
On Sunday 02 September 2007 08:37, jdd wrote:
the point is an update of the data is necessary only when Yast install don't find on the server the package it looks for.
YaST doesn't browse server to see what is there, or ask for <file><version> and when it can't find it than update local database.
yes it does, of course. I don't speak of beta here, but of 10.x stable... the original folder do never change, of course, so there is no need for test or problem, but any other do (update, guru, packman...) and if it's not fresh it complaining not finding the package you need (only if there is a newer package, of course). It says "I don't find the CDXX", even for the net and ask for what must be done...
Right, but as mentioned above with Factory it will make not much difference,
doesn't matter really, nobody use factory for day to day work
Besides, not many desktop users leave computer on all the time.
many do, but not all, but this is easy to implement and usefull for some (You works that way or did at least)
their job in background. Even with very slow software management it is possible to do other tasks, and from time to time check what is done.
it's very boring to install a new hardware and have to wait hours... for example a new scanner needs sane... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
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Andreas Jaeger
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Duncan Mac-Vicar P.
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jdd
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John Layt
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Rajko M.
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Robert Lewis