On 01/07/2015 02:50 PM, Hans Witvliet wrote:

On Wed, 2015-01-07 at 12:39 -0500, Doug wrote: <snip>

...

You can install Windows 8.1 even if you don't have the system disk, _IF_ you have recorded the installation key. If you don't have the install key, I'm pretty sure you're out of luck, unless you can talk the dealer into giving you a disk with the proper key. </snip>

Small comment on that, Some months ago, I feared my daughter hosed her laptop (W7.1 & OS_13.1)

I assumed I had to re-install the lot, but I could not find the original key.

After some googling I learned that the keys are stored encrypted on the disk, and there are tools for finding the keys for 7, 7.1, 8, 8.1 and make them readable so you re-use them again Bad news however is that these are windows programs. It seems very unlikely you can run them under wine ...

as for me, I remembered that before doing anything with that laptop, i booted 13.1 and did a "dd" from the entire hdd to an usb-drive, so i don't have personal experience with the key-finder-tool, but perhaps someone else on the list.

hw

Well, the trick is, if you buy a computer with no disk and no key, download and run the keyfinder program before you do anything else, and write down the key somewhere you can find it. (I think the seller is supposed to put a label with the key somewhere on the machine, but maybe he didn't, or maybe I'm wrong.) Perhaps someone reading here can say if it's possible to run some kind of keyfinder from Linux, assuming you can access the Windows files from Linux, as you say you can do. --doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Doug composed on 2015-01-07 12:39 (UTC-0500):

you can download a full install disk from Microsoft.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1-windows_install/... seems to say with 8.1 you cannot, implying if you need one, you must get either iso or media from a vendor. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 01/08/2015 12:47 PM, Doug wrote:

Microsoft itself provides the iso file. You must have the installation key from your original install. If you don['t have it, and if there's enough left of the original, you

Doesn't W8.1 have the recovery disc process available, where you burn your own DVDs? That should be the first thing anyone who buys a Windows computer should do. BTW, I downloaded a W7 ISO from MS to create my W7 virtual machine on openSUSE. I bought a refurb computer that came with W7, but it's recovery process would only save to a 8GB USB drive which I didn't have. I was able to use the licence key with the downloaded ISO and got a better install than I could have with the recovery USB drive. The refurb computer runs Linux exclusively, so there's no licence violation. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Joe Zappa composed on 2015-01-07 16:36 (UTC-0500):

Microsoft goes out of their way to make sure that Windows does not play well with others.

It looks that way, but it ain't necessarily on purpose, or any more than a trivial problem WRT multiboot. When you put a Linux bootloader on a primary instead of the MBR and use legacy MBR boot code to get to that bootloader, the worst one can expect a Windows installer to do is flip two bits in the partition table. Most no boot after installation trouble starts because Linux installers assume a non-null MBR code block needs to be different than as found, which is not materially different from what a Windows installer does. Meanwhile I figured out long before GPT/UEFI that W98 and later XP would install as one wished by giving it limited options, meaning partition in advance, and when its installer found choices needed to be made, it offered up whatever it found acceptable, and accepted the choice made. That meant installing it was not only possible after Linux was installed, but also to other than a primary, choice and location of which was up to the person installing. And done intelligently, the only "non-nice" result would be moving the active flag on HD0, easily reversed via a procedure that could be done booted to Windows in trivially more time than it takes to boot. At least as late as Win7, installation taking as little as one partition remained possible, and with no more "damage" than moving the active flag on HD0. Simply give the Windows installer only one choice, and it will take it. I choose not to give it more than a stepping stone among the partitioned space at the very front of the disk. It boots from a primary, but runs off a logical: Disk /dev/sda: 2000.4 GB, 2000398934016 bytes, 3907029168 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes Disk label type: dos Disk identifier: 0xc22068fb Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sda1 2048 821247 409600 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sda2 821248 4917247 2048000 82 Linux swap / Solaris /dev/sda3 * 4917248 5736447 409600 83 Linux /dev/sda4 5736448 3907028991 1950646272 5 Extended /dev/sda5 5736480 14227455 4245488 82 Linux swap / Solaris /dev/sda6 14227488 14743551 258032 e W95 FAT16 (LBA) /dev/sda7 14743584 113047551 49151984 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sda8 113047584 133527551 10239984 83 Linux /dev/sda9 133527584 154007551 10239984 83 Linux /dev/sda10 154007584 174487551 10239984 83 Linux /dev/sda11 174487584 194967551 10239984 83 Linux /dev/sda12 194967584 3793016831 1799024624 83 Linux /dev/sda13 3793016864 3797112831 2047984 83 Linux /dev/sda14 3797112864 3801208831 2047984 83 Linux /dev/sda15 3801208864 3805304831 2047984 83 Linux /dev/sda16 3805304864 3808724991 1710064 83 Linux /dev/sda17 3808725024 3907028991 49151984 d7 Unknown

This has been a historical trend going back even before Linux was started.

Don't forget, Windows originally ran on top of DOS, and IBM selected DOS as the OS necessary to create sales of its hardware. The only thing that mattered was maintaining reputation with this new thing the PC. It had to just work. For clones to work, they had to run the apps that ran on IBM's hardware, which necessitated DOS. There was no serious option for any other OS for a long time. Any would require different software. Eventually Xenix came around, but it basically existed for a nominal number of turnkey systems using special software for which DOS compatibility was irrelevant. It was only later with OS/2 that the idea of more than one OS on a PC was conceived. The inertia was strong, and M$ had no reason to change its focus, which was and is license sales. To it then there was nothing to be gained, and little if any more there is now.

When I buy a laptop, I take the original hard disk with the Windows installation out, and put it in storage, and then put in a new hard drive.

Makes excellent sense. Just because one creates media from the OEM installation doesn't mean the new creation can be expected to work. The only way to test either involves a 2nd HD, or risking loss of the original by attempting to test the validity of the media. The only complete ready to go including Windows license PC I ever bought for myself I sort of did the same thing with. Rather than putting directly into storage, I cloned it to a new (larger) HD first, then tried booting the clone. It offered a boot menu with 2 choices, system restore, and Windows. Neither worked. Windows proceeded a few seconds, then the machine POSTed. Restore ground away copying or whatever for a while, then when trying to boot Windows it proceeded a few seconds after which it was POSTing again. Before support ever got back to me, I downloaded and burned a Win7 iso, installed it, and installed 13.1. When I got the callback the only help I had use for was in finding get activated in the menu. I had thought applying updates on a new installation caused activation automatically.

If I want to attempt to make a dual-boot...

Virtually all mine are multiboot, easier than performing repair or diagnostic operations from live media, and good fallback for when any kind of upgrade goes haywire. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

John Andersen composed on 2015-01-08 04:43 (UTC-0500):

All of this (Pointless IMHO) effort is wasted to get dual boot to work when dual boot is hardly a worthwhile thing to have any more. Its at best a miserable solution even after your get it working perfectly.

I don't dual boot anything. I multiboot virtually everything. Nobody can unconditionally troubleshoot and do follow up to bug reports about hardware without using the hardware involved, or for software the same software configuration, including OS. Many things can be virtualized, but not everything.

Use a VM for pete sake, or buy another drive, and the mounting carrier for your laptop.

VMs induce people to put everything on one big filesystem. There's a lot more to loose at once that way, and IMO more troublesome to backup and restore, inducing not doing it at all. I attribute many of the bugs we see in modern software to virtualization, laziness from the apparent simplicity of using VMs, and consequent failure to test on a reasonably wide variety of actual hardware. I have no material use for VMs even on the machines that support them in hardware. What they can't do is what I need, and what they can do I don't need. Multiboot may be old school, but it still provides utility without equal. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 01/08/2015 03:52 PM, Billie Walsh wrote:

If your system doesn't have boat loads of resources to start with then both operating systems suck.

Does that just about sum it up?

- a few years back [when i needed Windows ] i ran VMware on Linux, for the Windows ............ - from my recollection : ran just fine : both Linux & Win at natural speeds .............. regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* James Knott [01-08-15 10:00]: [...]

I run Windows 7 on Virtualbox on openSUSE 13.1. One thing I've noticed is the video isn't up to running Google Earth.

with a native version available, why stoop to windows. You are just handcuffing yourself. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 01/08/2015 11:51 AM, James Knott wrote:

On 01/08/2015 10:47 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* James Knott [01-08-15 10:00]: [...]

...

I run Windows 7 on Virtualbox on openSUSE 13.1. One thing I've noticed is the video isn't up to running Google Earth. with a native version available, why stoop to windows. You are just handcuffing yourself.

Neither the "official" nor SUSE versions work well.

Also, my main point about mentioning it was to show not all things work well in a VM. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 01/08/2015 12:11 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* James Knott [01-08-15 11:53]:

...

On 01/08/2015 10:47 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* James Knott [01-08-15 10:00]: [...]

...

I run Windows 7 on Virtualbox on openSUSE 13.1. One thing I've noticed is the video isn't up to running Google Earth. with a native version available, why stoop to windows. You are just handcuffing yourself.

Neither the "official" nor SUSE versions work well. It is better on Tw, at least I haven't seen recent problems. You can improve 13.1 by using the following alias or script to start google-earth:

alias=google-earth='while ! google-earth; do echo RESTARTING; done'

or:

#!/bin/bash #while ! google-earth; do echo RESTARTING; done rm -rf /home/<user>/.googleearth/Cache rm -rf /home/<user>/.googleearth/Temp /usr/bin/google-earth exit

The script works better as the alias is just brute-force restart.

This is using the latest rpm from google, didn't know there was an openSUSE version.

Actually, the Earth function is now built into Google Maps, where it works fine. There's really not much need for a separate app now. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org