On Tuesday 16 April 2002 10:26 am, Derek Fountain, commented about:

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I would stay away from nVidia chips completely and use Matrox. Maybe the performance is not as good, but with Linux you stay clear of all that stupid, senseless, buggy binary-driver-only hell.

How will SuSE-8.0 cope with nVIDIA graphics hardware? I persuaded a colleague to install 7.3 on his box and was horribly embarassed by the way it repeatedly crashed as soon as KDE was running.

Once I'd got the latest nVIDIA drivers in place it was fine, but the whole installation experience wasn't a good advertisement for "easy to install" Linux! ======================== Derek, My guess is to put the blame where blame is due in this case! Blame nVidia and the graphics card included in the laptop. This can't be SuSE's fault or Linux, because with closed source drivers, like those from nVidia, you can't allow for all the quirks associated with their graphics cards!

As they said in Indiana Jones, "Choose poorly and pay the consequences, choose wisely and enjoy the benefits" ! ;o) Not quite verbatim, but close enough that everyone gets the idea. My choice has been ATI since going thru buggy-binary-driver-only hell with an nVidia card and I haven't regretted it since. Mine is the 7200 Radeon, great 2d & excellent 3d. Patrick -- ---KMail 1.3.2--- SuSE Linux v7.3 Pro--- Registered Linux User #225206 Magic Page Products -- Amiga-SuSE-PC Sales & Service URL: http://home.sprintmail.com/~tracerb

I have a chance to pick up a used Radeon 7200 from a friend. I did a little research on it and read that it wasn't good for First Person Shooter games such as UT and Quake 3 Arena. <causes very poor fps or something like that> Could you perhaps verify or dispell this for me?

Thanks

On Tue, 2002-04-16 at 08:52, Patrick wrote: My choice has been ATI since ========================= Mark, Sorry, I can't say about those games as I am not a big 3d gamer. I get very good results with included 3d games from SuSE, like Tux racer & TuxKart, etc, so I don't see why UT or Quake should be any different. It is not the best setup for 3d I am sure, but I have no complaints

On Tuesday 16 April 2002 07:06 pm, Mark Doucette, commented about: thus far in that area. I get good results from Gears, although that is not a real good test of 3d I understand. Good Luck on your Quest! Patrick -- ---KMail 1.3.2--- SuSE Linux v7.3 Pro--- Registered Linux User #225206 Magic Page Products -- Amiga-SuSE-PC Sales & Service URL: http://home.sprintmail.com/~tracerb

Derek, SuSE is not at fault here - remember this is like taking Linux and trying to run a WinModem on it - it may or may not work - but it's not the fault of Linux in any way. nVIDIA refuses to play by the same rules as every other graphics card company does - either leave it alone and give out specs so other developers can build or open the source and let others assist them. SuSE would be more then happy, along with every other Linux distro out there, to make the cards work as well as any other card - problem is nVIDIA isn't - and that's sorta the end of the line with what anyone outside nVIDIA can do. John W Higgins john@wishdev.com P.S. It is amazing to see that the complaint level is so much higher for nVIDIA graphics card then WinModems. Maybe if they were called winVIDIA graphics cards people wouldn't assume they would work. That wasn't directed at you Derek, just a random thought that came to mind :) -----Original Message----- From: Derek Fountain [mailto:fountai@hursley.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 12:01 AM To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Best graphics card?

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How will SuSE-8.0 cope with nVIDIA graphics hardware? I persuaded a colleague to install 7.3 on his box and was horribly embarassed by the way it repeatedly crashed as soon as KDE was running.

Once I'd got the latest nVIDIA drivers in place it was fine, but the whole installation experience wasn't a good advertisement for "easy to install" Linux!

======================== Derek, My guess is to put the blame where blame is due in this case! Blame nVidia and the graphics card included in the laptop. This can't be

I wasn't looking to aportion blame. The machine is a desktop, not a laptop, and it's a supplied office machine. Like most people in an office environment, we at IBM don't get to choose the hardware the company puts in front of us. The nVIDIA setup in 7.3 just didn't work out of the box for the machine I tried it on. It locked the machine solid. I don't care who's fault it is, I just wondered if SuSE have made efforts to ensure their product works better for 8.0. -- 7:57am up 42 days, 16:20, 2 users, load average: 0.20, 0.13, 0.13 -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com

* Derek Fountain (Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 10:00:13AM +0100)

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SuSE is not at fault here

Yes it is. SuSE is shipping a product which just doesn't work. If it doesn't work they should say "not supported", preferably on the box, but at least as part of the installation. I don't care about the politics, I care about whether it works or not.

Funny, I've installed a whole slew of linux boxes with nvidia cards, anmd I never had problems (well, scrtach that, I've had millions of problems with that, but .. with 7.3 I could - unpack computer, insert NVidia board - insert suse install DVD - do a full install and get working X and everything (not top notch X, but good enough to be able to run YOU or to get a konsole/xterm in which I could ftp to the NVidia website and downld the .tgz files

I'm hoping that SuSE will have done something sensible for 8.0, like stop the X configuration until the RPMs can be acquired (via the internet or whatever), then running a script to plug in the right bits before running sax. i.e. automate the hoops that need to be jumped through in order to make it work properly.

Once again I am (a bit) confused. I could get Sax to work on an NVidia board (with the opensource nv module)

That's because no one claims that Winmodems will work flawlessly. If SuSE made it clear that nVIDIA graphics cards don't work properly without extra help then no one would be complaining.

OK, my mind is a bit hazy here, but I thought that if ytou try to enable 3D in sax you get a popup that sez you need to run YOU or downld the tgz filkes yourself. Kind regards, -- Gerhard den Hollander Phone :+31-10.280.1515 Global IT Support manager Direct:+31-10.280.1539 Jason Geosystems BV Fax :+31-10.280.1511 (When calling please note: we are in GMT+1) gdenhollander@jasongeo.com POBox 1573 visit us at http://www.jasongeo.com 3000 BN Rotterdam JASON.......#1 in Reservoir Characterization The Netherlands This e-mail and any attachment is/are intended solely for the named addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, we request that you do not disseminate, forward, distribute or copy this e-mail message. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and destroy the original message.

On Wednesday 17 April 2002 12:08, Jónas Helgi Pálsson wrote:

nVIDIA whom does not allow SuSE and other Linux dist. to include their drivers, and does not include it with the card? Or SuSE for not been allowed to get you up'n'running without a hazzle.

From the nvidia license

2.1.2 Linux Exception. Notwithstanding the foregoing terms of Section 2.1.1, SOFTWARE designed exclusively for use on the Linux operating system may be copied and redistributed, provided that the binary files thereof are not modifie in any way (except for unzipping of compressed files). As far as I can see, the decision not to include the "real" nvidia drivers is therefore completely a question of politics and as such quite unfair on the users wo, as Derek said, for the most part just want a working system. Anders

On Wednesday 17 April 2002 04:00 am, you wrote:

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SuSE is not at fault here

Yes it is. SuSE is shipping a product which just doesn't work. If it doesn't work they should say "not supported", preferably on the box, but at least as part of the installation. I don't care about the politics, I care about whether it works or not.

They *DO* work! They just haven't worked for *you* and some few others. So get a different graphics card or a different distro if all you can do is blame SuSE.

I'm hoping that SuSE will have done something sensible for 8.0, like stop the X configuration until the RPMs can be acquired (via the internet or whatever), then running a script to plug in the right bits before running sax. i.e. automate the hoops that need to be jumped through in order to make it work properly.

You've got to be kidding, right? Stop the X configuration just for you and a few others who can't seem to get their nVidia cards to work? This has gotten into the surrealistic with this kind of request! Your bitching won't make nVidia disclose their drivers. They are *c l o s e d s o u r c e*, understand? A whole OS is *NOT* going to be stopped just for one companys drivers to be made non-proprietary. You're seeming to miss the whole point of all of this. Go get an ATI card ferchrissake!

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P.S. It is amazing to see that the complaint level is so much higher for nVIDIA graphics card then WinModems. Maybe if they were called winVIDIA

That's because no one claims that Winmodems will work flawlessly. If SuSE made it clear that nVIDIA graphics cards don't work properly without extra help then no one would be complaining.

*Some* people *have* gotten some winmodems to "work flawlessly". Therefore this is the same argument as you're trying to use with nVidia cards. Not *everyone* is saying they "work flawlessly". Sheesh! John -- Microsoft says: You *will* use our products. You *will* pay us what we ask. You *will* be happy with it or we sick our lawyers on you!

I apologize to all who have answered this upteen times. I just got a Minolta DiMage 5.It works really nice but I want a smartcard media readar for the machine so I can pop in the flash card and have it read.Sorry to interchange Flash card with Smartmedia card like that.Are they the same? Can someone reccommend a card reader that will work well with SuSE 7.3? TIA cheers

SanDisk has a reader that can read both CF and SM. http://www.sandisk.com/consumer/im.asp I have not used the readers, but other people I know here have used one of the SanDisk readers. Most are available a local computer outlets or via mail order. On 17 Apr 2002 at 14:36, rev rob wrote:

I apologize to all who have answered this upteen times. I just got a Minolta DiMage 5.It works really nice but I want a smartcard media readar for the machine so I can pop in the flash card and have it read.Sorry to interchange Flash card with Smartmedia card like that.Are they the same? Can someone reccommend a card reader that will work well with SuSE 7.3? TIA cheers

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. Yes, and if you ever intend home theater, do not get an NVidia. They are fuzzy, compared to Radeon. Also from that perspective, the ATI8500 has serious gamma problems. For home theater, for the time being, most-liked are the 7200 and 7500, in that order. On Tuesday, 16 April 2002 8:43, you wrote:

* Kaare Rasmussen [Apr 16. 2002 15:29]:

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I think it's time to get a new machine. SuSE 8.0 comes with exciting 3D games :-)

But what is the "best buy" for a graphics card? My hardware friends tell me about

ATI Radeon. Should be powerful compared to the price GForce 2. Not as good as Gforce 3, but cheaper GForce 3. Very fast but expensive GForce 4. ???

I would stay away from nVidia chips completely and use Matrox. Maybe the performance is not as good, but with Linux you stay clear of all that stupid, senseless, buggy binary-driver-only hell.

On Tuesday 16 April 2002 12:26 pm, you wrote:

On Tuesday 16 April 2002 15:43, Mads Martin Jørgensen wrote:

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* Kaare Rasmussen [Apr 16. 2002 15:29]:

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I think it's time to get a new machine. SuSE 8.0 comes with exciting 3D games :-)

But what is the "best buy" for a graphics card? My hardware friends tell me about

ATI Radeon. Should be powerful compared to the price GForce 2. Not as good as Gforce 3, but cheaper GForce 3. Very fast but expensive GForce 4. ???

I would stay away from nVidia chips completely and use Matrox. Maybe the performance is not as good, but with Linux you stay clear of all that stupid, senseless, buggy binary-driver-only hell.

Hmmmm wonder what I have been doing wrong then. I have a GeForce2 and have had zero problems with it in combination with SuSE7.3. The HW acceleration works fine. I can play Wolfenstein with all the detail settings on maximum, Armagetron with max detail settings. This is with a clean install of 7.3 and the YOU updates for nVidia.... no futzing around with anything.

Are the problems people have had related to a combination of hardware, and not just some wonkey binary drivers from nVidia?

C.

It seems to be a problem with a little of each. The big thing though that's been said, is, that nVidia doesn't want to cooperate with Linux as well as ATI or Matrox apparently. I've got no problems running my Hercules ProphetII with the nVidia drivers either, but it'd be so much easier if everything set up on the first try, instead of having to rely on going out on the web and hunting down, then downloading drivers for said video cards. I for one, am going to get myself an ATI Radeon 7200 (as per some recommendations in this list), and give my Herc card to my dad or sister (they run M$, but sis is coming around a little at a time), as soon as possible, so that it's installed and ready for when my 8.0 gets here in the mail. John -- Microsoft says: You *will* use our products. You *will* pay us what we ask. You *will* be happy with it or we sick our lawyers on you!

* S.Toms (Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 10:49:02PM -0700)

On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Joshua Lee wrote:

jl> On Tuesday 16 April 2002 10:27 am, you wrote: jl> > I think it's time to get a new machine. SuSE 8.0 comes with exciting jl> > 3D games :-) jl> > jl> > But what is the "best buy" for a graphics card? My hardware friends jl> > tell me about jl> > jl> > ATI Radeon. Should be powerful compared to the price GForce 2. Not jl> > as good as Gforce 3, but cheaper GForce 3. Very fast but expensive jl> > GForce 4. ??? jl> > jl> > But of course performance depends a lot on the driver, so - what is jl> > the best card for Linux use in order of price/performance? jl> jl> Despite what people have said about nVidia I like them, but then again jl> I haven't had any problems with my drivers. I'm running an nVidia TNT jl> card, which is not top of the line but still gives me excellent fps jl> for many games. jl>

Same here, I have the VisionTek GeForce 3 ti200 and have had very good luck with it. Works excellent for playing DVD's as well as games, but then I don't play too many different games. For waht it's worth, I paid approximately $115.00 US for my card on uBid about 6 months ago.

the geforce4 is an excellent card, the egforce4 MX is equivalent of a geforce3 performance wise, but a lot cheaper. You will need the 2880 nvidia drivers to use dual screen on the 4 series (and you need the upcoming drivers if you want to be ab le to run our software on them ;) ) But really, imo there is no better 3d card for linux than the NVidia ones. Gerhard, <@jasongeo.com> == The Acoustic Motorbiker == -- __O If your watch is wound, wound to run, it will =`\<, If your time is due, due to come, it will (=)/(=) Living this life, is like trying to learn latin in a chines firedrill