RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion - openSUSE Users

RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

Al Sutton

28 Apr 2002 28 Apr '02

11:42

I've now tried to get SuSE 8.0 Professional working, and I've come to the conclusion it's not suitable for production use, and so I've decided to switch back to the freely downloadable edition of RedHat 7.2. The list of reasons why I'm doing this are; 1) SuSE 8.0 doesn't recognise my IOMega ZIP CD (which is about two years old), whereas RedHat has done for a number of months. This makes me nervous as to which other devices are supported within the Linux kernel, but not in SuSE. 2) SuSE 8.0's support for wireless PCMCIA networking is appauling, and I can't justify it's use on laptops on this basis. RedHat's configuration interface treats wireless networking as just another ethernet device if you want to do simple interface. 3) I'm unable to boot SuSE 8.0 from a floppy disk on machines with USB floppy and/or CD-ROM drives (which is extremly useful for laptops). RedHat 7.2 offers a boot from single disk option for floppy drives. 4) I am unable to download a CD image to do installation from, which means I'm at the mercy of my CD's not being lost, and if they are I have to buy a new set. 5) To install NFS server support I have to install a set of packages which YaST complains may cause problems with each other. 6) SuSE complains if I try perform an installation from CD and then try to install packages from the DVD. Aren't they the same, and if not why not? I find this a shame, because I've heard some good things about SuSE, and I'm in the process of evaluating options for the base Linux distribution for the software product the company I work for sells. My final opinion of the product is that it's unfinished and therefore not suiable for use in productions systems. Before anyone starts offering me pointers to help files, FAQs, or any other source of "how to do this without using the SuSE tools", please don't. I'm of the opinion that if it's not integrated into SuSE's tools then SuSE probably don't want you to use it. The Wireless Lan section of the unofficial FAQ shows this well because it recommends switching off the SuSE setting in order to get things working. Al.

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Philipp Thomas

28 Apr 28 Apr

12:22

New subject: [SLE] RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

Al Sutton [ Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:42:36 +0100]:

...

and so I've decided to switch back to the freely downloadable edition of RedHat 7.2.

If you're happy with that, so be it.

...

1) SuSE 8.0 doesn't recognise my IOMega ZIP CD (which is about two years old), whereas RedHat has done for a number of months.

I don't know what's special about the ZIP CD. How is it connected to the computer?

...

This makes me nervous as to which other devices are supported within the Linux kernel, but not in SuSE.

What do you mean by not supported? That the hardware scan doesn't find the devices? That you can't configure the device via YaST2? Things like lm_sensors work on SuSE Linux yet you can't configure them via YaST2.

...

2) SuSE 8.0's support for wireless PCMCIA networking is appauling, and I can't justify it's use on laptops on this basis. RedHat's configuration interface treats wireless networking as just another ethernet device if you want to do simple interface.

Care to expand? I might then be able to reply.

...

4) I am unable to download a CD image to do installation from, which means I'm at the mercy of my CD's not being lost, and if they are I have to buy a new set.

Oh, you're unable to make images from the CDs you bought? Funny that you're able to use images to install from. Really, this argument is ridiculous.

...

5) To install NFS server support I have to install a set of packages which YaST complains may cause problems with each other.

This simply isn't true! Please tell me where you think YaST2 complained.

...

6) SuSE complains if I try perform an installation from CD and then try to install packages from the DVD. Aren't they the same, and if not why not?

They used to differ slightly in contents as there's a bit more space on the DVD. But even if YaST2 complains, you're able to continue working, so what's the hassle?

...

My final opinion of the product is that it's unfinished and therefore not suitable for use in productions systems.

Funny that companies like Oracle or SAP certify SuSE Linux then, wouldn't you think?

...

I'm of the opinion that if it's not integrated into SuSE's tools then SuSE probably don't want you to use it.

That's making it too simple. As we don't have limitless resources, neither in time nor developers, we have to make priorities. So things were many will profit are implemented earlier then those where only few will profit. Philipp PS: I've written to you both directly and via the list because I wanted to make sure you get my reply. But please only answer privately *or* via the list, not both.

Al Sutton

12:52

New subject: [SLE] RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

On Sunday 28 April 2002 13:22, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

Al Sutton [ Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:42:36 +0100]:

...
and so I've decided to switch back to the freely downloadable edition of RedHat 7.2.

If you're happy with that, so be it.

...
1) SuSE 8.0 doesn't recognise my IOMega ZIP CD (which is about two years old), whereas RedHat has done for a number of months.

I don't know what's special about the ZIP CD. How is it connected to the computer?

This was due to an incompatibility between the USB controller and I beleive SuSE Linux, although I am not 100% sure. The drive worked on the controller user RH 7.2, but required moving to another USB controller (the one on the mother board as opposed to an addition card) in order to work with SuSE 8.0.

...

...
This makes me nervous as to which other devices are supported within the Linux kernel, but not in SuSE.

What do you mean by not supported? That the hardware scan doesn't find the devices? That you can't configure the device via YaST2?

Things like lm_sensors work on SuSE Linux yet you can't configure them via YaST2.

My concern is that a number of products are advertised as "Working with RedHat", I had always seen this as pretty much interchangeable with "Working with Linux", but I'm now not so confident. I fully accept problem MAY be down to the USB controller becoming faulty in the last 4 weeks (since I had RH7.2 installed), but it seemed strange that I was able to burn a CD under RH7.2 before installing SuSE 7.3, and haven't been able to use it since installing 7.3 or upgrading to 8.0.

...

...
2) SuSE 8.0's support for wireless PCMCIA networking is appauling, and I can't justify it's use on laptops on this basis. RedHat's configuration interface treats wireless networking as just another ethernet device if you want to do simple interface.

Care to expand? I might then be able to reply.

I have a SMC 2632W wireless LAN PCMCIA card. Under RH 7.2 I configured it as eth0 when it was plugged in, and it was treated under as a normal ethernet device. Under SuSE 8.0 I have been unable to get it work (I posted the error message to the suse-line-e list earlier today), and the only information I've found is in the unofficial FAQ (at ) is definatley not the procedure I want to have to perform on each laptop that needs to use wireless networking.

...

...
4) I am unable to download a CD image to do installation from, which means I'm at the mercy of my CD's not being lost, and if they are I have to buy a new set.

Oh, you're unable to make images from the CDs you bought? Funny that you're able to use images to install from. Really, this argument is ridiculous.

Are you saying that all of the CDs & the DVD in SuSE 8 are free from copyright issues (Including the ones in th pay directory). If this is true what does the extra money go towards when I buy the professional edition over the personal edition?

...

...
5) To install NFS server support I have to install a set of packages which YaST complains may cause problems with each other.

This simply isn't true! Please tell me where you think YaST2 complained.

If this is untrue can you explain where the following error message comes from when I select Software -> Install/Remove Software under YaST2; Package nfs-utils interferes with: nfs-server, This is usually not a serious problem, but if you experience undesired behavior, you might need to remove packages manually.

...

...
6) SuSE complains if I try perform an installation from CD and then try to install packages from the DVD. Aren't they the same, and if not why not?

They used to differ slightly in contents as there's a bit more space on the DVD. But even if YaST2 complains, you're able to continue working, so what's the hassle?

The hassle is the apparent error message which doesn't tell me if it's OK to procced or not. If it doesn't cause a problem why am I warned? You may call it a minor issue, but it's irritating when you need to install multiple machines, and then have a NFS available central repository made form the DVD which other packages are installed from. If some machines only have the CD it means you get the error message, which is concerning to users.

...

...
My final opinion of the product is that it's unfinished and therefore not suitable for use in productions systems.

Funny that companies like Oracle or SAP certify SuSE Linux then, wouldn't you think?

Have they cerified SuSE 8.0? If so then it may fit their needs, but as the subject of this Email states, these views are MY opinion of SuSE 8.0 operating to MY needs.

...

...
I'm of the opinion that if it's not integrated into SuSE's tools then SuSE probably don't want you to use it.

That's making it too simple. As we don't have limitless resources, neither in time nor developers, we have to make priorities. So things were many will profit are implemented earlier then those where only few will profit.

But I'm looking for a system my support people can use with the minimum of time spent fixing a problem. I don't want to get into them hacking config files just to get someones Wireless lan card working, or being called every time a user wants to install some new software over the network from the central server becuase they have a warning message about the version on the server being different from the version on their machine when it's not.

...

Philipp

PS: I've written to you both directly and via the list because I wanted to make sure you get my reply. But please only answer privately *or* via the list, not both.

Understood, the reply has gone to the list in order to allow others to put forward their viewpoints. Many thanks for your reply. Al.

Dave Smith

13:38

New subject: [SLE] RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

[some bits have been snipped for brevity or where I have no knowledge...] On Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 01:52:11PM +0100, al@alsutton.com wrote:

...

On Sunday 28 April 2002 13:22, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...
...
This makes me nervous as to which other devices are supported within the Linux kernel, but not in SuSE.

What do you mean by not supported? That the hardware scan doesn't find the devices? That you can't configure the device via YaST2?

My concern is that a number of products are advertised as "Working with RedHat", I had always seen this as pretty much interchangeable with "Working with Linux", but I'm now not so confident.

They are pretty much synonymous (sp?). However, some bits of hardware/ software won't be fully integrated into the setup system properly, requiring you to edit a config file, or enable a service, etc. Also, sometimes bugs do turn up. That's life.

...

I have a SMC 2632W wireless LAN PCMCIA card. Under RH 7.2 I configured it as eth0 when it was plugged in, and it was treated under as a normal ethernet device. Under SuSE 8.0 I have been unable to get it work (I posted the error message to the suse-line-e list earlier today), and the only information I've found is in the unofficial FAQ (at ) is definatley not the procedure I want to have to perform on each laptop that needs to use wireless networking.

As mentioned elsewhere, some bits are produced earlier than others, simply because SuSE doesn't have infinite resources, and features have to be prioritised. Wlan cards are a relatively new phenomenon, and Linux support is similarly new. I've not tried to get my wlan card running yet, but the last time I looked, the documentation for the linux wlan drivers was pretty fragmented.

...

Are you saying that all of the CDs & the DVD in SuSE 8 are free from copyright issues (Including the ones in th pay directory). If this is true what does the extra money go towards when I buy the professional edition over the personal edition?

It pays the people who build, test and check every extra package. It pays for the extra books you get. It pays for the extra media cost (and maybe extra shipping). And yes, it might also pay royalties for the 'pay' packages (I don't work for SuSE, so I can't comment on whether this is the case). However, you're making _backups_, and even if the DMCA (or equivalents has managed to remove the 'fair use' principle, I'd be very doubtful that SuSE (or anyone else) would sue you for copyright violation because you made backups. Of course, IANAL, but some common sense should come into play here...

...

...
They used to differ slightly in contents as there's a bit more space on the DVD. But even if YaST2 complains, you're able to continue working, so what's the hassle?

The hassle is the apparent error message which doesn't tell me if it's OK to procced or not. If it doesn't cause a problem why am I warned?

a) Because if the packages *do* still differ slightly between versions, then some people would want to know - there's an equivalent counter- argument... b) Because SuSE are busy making the rest of the distro work smoothly, rather than prioritising trivial things like this...

...

Have they cerified SuSE 8.0? If so then it may fit their needs, but as the subject of this Email states, these views are MY opinion of SuSE 8.0 operating to MY needs.

Like others said, if you don't like it, go use something else. If you have something that meets your needs better than SuSE, then of course you'd be silly *not* to use it... IME, no distribution ever has every possible thing working, with easy configuration even in one release. There's always something you have to go and fix. If they did, they'd either be hopelessly out-of-date, or they'd completely dominate the Linux market (since no-one would buy anything else). As a small anecdote, I tried a few distributions to decide which one to install across my network of relatively diverse machines. SuSE was the only distribution which installed cleanly on all the machines. Admittedly, this was a few years ago (in the days of RH5.2).

...

...
That's making it too simple. As we don't have limitless resources, neither in time nor developers, we have to make priorities. So things were many will profit are implemented earlier then those where only few will profit.

But I'm looking for a system my support people can use with the minimum of time spent fixing a problem. I don't want to get into them hacking config files just to get someones Wireless lan card working, or being called every time a user wants to install some new software over the network from the central server becuase they have a warning message about the version on the server being different from the version on their machine when it's not.

Then maybe you've chosen the wrong distribution. SuSE is generally very polished and easy to configure, but IMHO, they tend to lag behind RH slightly on getting things working, but once they do work, they work better. It's not that long ago that RH had serious problems with marginal tools like gcc... Oh, and these are my opinions, not necessarily those of ST... :-) -- David Smith Work Email: Dave.Smith@st.com STMicroelectronics Home Email: David.Smith@ds-electronics.co.uk Bristol, England

Monte Milanuk

14:09

New subject: [SLE] RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

--- Dave Smith wrote:

...

...
...
They used to differ slightly in contents as there's a bit more space on the DVD. But even if YaST2 complains, you're able to continue working, so what's the hassle?

The hassle is the apparent error message which doesn't tell me if it's OK to procced or not. If it doesn't cause a problem why am I warned?

a) Because if the packages *do* still differ slightly between versions, then some people would want to know - there's an equivalent counter- argument...

b) Because SuSE are busy making the rest of the distro work smoothly, rather than prioritising trivial things like this...

I have to agree w/ Al on this one. I have a small home LAN w/ a DVD drive installed on the server, just for the express purpose of serving the install medium to the other SuSE Linux boxen on my little net. If I do a network install w/ floppies (doesn't always go very smoothly w/ 7.3 at least), mounting the DVD via NFS, no problems later. If I install locally w/ a CDROM, then every darn time I want to access the networked DVD, YAST2 bitches at me at least a couple of times. Very, very annoying. Try putting up w/ it on a regular basis, and you'll find it is very non-"trivial". I posted the problem here a while back, and someone pointed me to their hack/solution, but I could never get it to work right. IMHO, this is something that perhaps YAST2 should be smart enough to handle. YMMV. Monte ===== "All right, breaks over. Back on your heads! ;)" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com

Thorsten Kukuk

14:52

New subject: [SLE] RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

On Sun, Apr 28, Al Sutton wrote:

...

...
...
1) SuSE 8.0 doesn't recognise my IOMega ZIP CD (which is about two years old), whereas RedHat has done for a number of months.

I don't know what's special about the ZIP CD. How is it connected to the computer?

This was due to an incompatibility between the USB controller and I beleive SuSE Linux, although I am not 100% sure. The drive worked on the controller user RH 7.2, but required moving to another USB controller (the one on the mother board as opposed to an addition card) in order to work with SuSE 8.0.

This are the usual problems with the USB kernel stack: In one kernel version controller A does not work, in the next kernel release controller B makes problems. I'm sure you will find USB controllers, where Red Hat does not work, but SuSE does. This is a big problem with the current USB development.

...

...
...
4) I am unable to download a CD image to do installation from, which means I'm at the mercy of my CD's not being lost, and if they are I have to buy a new set.

Oh, you're unable to make images from the CDs you bought? Funny that you're able to use images to install from. Really, this argument is ridiculous.

Are you saying that all of the CDs & the DVD in SuSE 8 are free from copyright issues (Including the ones in th pay directory).

No, they are not free from copyright issues. But it is not forbidden to make backups from the media, you are even allowed to make copies and give them to good friends for free.

...

...
...
5) To install NFS server support I have to install a set of packages which YaST complains may cause problems with each other.

This simply isn't true! Please tell me where you think YaST2 complained.

If this is untrue can you explain where the following error message comes from when I select Software -> Install/Remove Software under YaST2;

Package nfs-utils interferes with: nfs-server, This is usually not a serious problem, but if you experience undesired behavior, you might need to remove packages manually.

I don't see the problem you have: The nfs-utils for the kernel NFS server are installed and you try to install the userland NFS server, which conflicts with the kernel NFS server utilities. YaST2 is correct to disallow this. If you wish to switch from kernel NFS to userland NFS, you need to deinstall at first the one.

...

...
...
6) SuSE complains if I try perform an installation from CD and then try to install packages from the DVD. Aren't they the same, and if not why not?

They used to differ slightly in contents as there's a bit more space on the DVD. But even if YaST2 complains, you're able to continue working, so what's the hassle?

The hassle is the apparent error message which doesn't tell me if it's OK to procced or not. If it doesn't cause a problem why am I warned?

Because it can cause problems, so we warn. You can calculate it yourself: 7 CDs does not fit on one DVD. So there is seldom used software missing on the DVD which can cause problems for you. So YaST2 is correct to warn you about this. Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk http://www.suse.de/~kukuk/ kukuk@suse.de SuSE Linux AG Deutschherrnstr. 15-19 D-90429 Nuernberg -------------------------------------------------------------------- Key fingerprint = A368 676B 5E1B 3E46 CFCE 2D97 F8FD 4E23 56C6 FB4B

Philipp Thomas

15:53

New subject: [SLE] RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

Hi Al, Al Sutton [ Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:52:11 +0100]:

...

My concern is that a number of products are advertised as "Working with RedHat",

I think this is mostly because of laziness and because RedHat has been very successful in making people think that Linux is RedHat. Many companies, specially on your side of the pond just don't care about the difference between Linux and RedHat. I guess for many products it would suffice to state the versions of libraries needed, but it's far easier to say 'works with RedHat'.

...

I had always seen this as pretty much interchangeable with "Working with Linux", but I'm now not so confident.

Yes and no :) Yes, it pretty much _is_ interchangeable but not always. The products may need special versions of libraries that are present on one distribution but not on the other. Or they use init scripts and RH and SuSE differ in where they place them. Or take Rational clearcase, which uses its own special file system and thus needs a kernel module. This kernel module will only work with an older RH kernel but not with one of the SuSE kernels and Rational just only supplies this one module. This is one of the main reasons why the LSB was founded: to create a standard base which allows ISVs to ignore the differences between distributions.

...

I have a SMC 2632W wireless LAN PCMCIA card. Under RH 7.2 I configured it as eth0 when it was plugged in, and it was treated under as a normal ethernet device. Under SuSE 8.0 I have been unable to get it work (I posted the error message to the suse-line-e list earlier today), and the only information I've found is in the unofficial FAQ (at ) is definatley not the procedure I want to have to perform on each laptop that needs to use wireless networking.

I'll try to get some information on that card. From all I know about wireless cards they all need some additional work. And it doesn't stop there because you need to use additional measures like using VPN to make them really secure.

...

Are you saying that all of the CDs & the DVD in SuSE 8 are free from copyright issues (Including the ones in th pay directory).

Besides the pay directory they are free from copyright issues (leaving aside the YaST license). But nobody forbids you to make images for backup purposes.

...

If this is true what does the extra money go towards when I buy the professional edition over the personal edition?

In that you get more than twice the amount of software? In that you can compile/develop with the professional edition?.

...

If this is untrue can you explain where the following error message comes from when I select Software -> Install/Remove Software under YaST2;

Package nfs-utils interferes with: nfs-server, This is usually not a serious problem, but if you experience undesired behavior, you might need to remove packages manually.

This is, because you need either own *or* the other. To quote the information from the package nfs-server: ------------------------------------------ There are 2 NFS Server: the userspace NFS server and the kernel NFS server. This package contains the userspace NFS server. The utilities for the kernel NFS server can be found in the "nfs-utils" package. ------------------------------------------ Maybe the names are a bit misleading, as you only need nfs-utils if you use the kernel NFS server. In this case nfs-utils *do* conflict with nfs-server because both provide a NFS server.

...

The hassle is the apparent error message which doesn't tell me if it's OK to procced or not. If it doesn't cause a problem why am I warned?

It *could* cause problems, but more if you installed from DVD and later decide to use the CD. But YaST2 can't decide if it could cause problems or not. It can only tell you that you're using a different set of disks, so to speak.

...

If some machines only have the CD it means you get the error message, which is concerning to users.

I can understand that, but it should be easy to tell those users to just ignore the message. Once again, we do have to mark them differently and providing YaST2 with the knowledge what is harmless and what is not would be way more work then possible.

...

Have they cerified SuSE 8.0?

Not that I know. The base of their certification is our SuSE Linux Enterprise Server and there currently one that's based on SuSE Linux 8.0 .

...

server being different from the version on their machine when it's not.

But it *is* different. Philipp

Matthew Johnson

18:23

New subject: [SLE] RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

...

This was due to an incompatibility between the USB controller and I beleive SuSE Linux, although I am not 100% sure. The drive worked on the controller user RH 7.2, but required moving to another USB controller (the one on the mother board as opposed to an addition card) in order to work with SuSE 8.0.

...

I fully accept problem MAY be down to the USB controller becoming faulty in the last 4 weeks (since I had RH7.2 installed), but it seemed strange that I was able to burn a CD under RH7.2 before installing SuSE 7.3, and haven't been able to use it since installing 7.3 or upgrading to 8.0.

Hotplug support is a new feature added to Linux generally, basically they decided to lump PCI and USB under one heading 'Hotplug', Cannot remember where I saw this, probably on the kernel mailing list Here is a link anyway: http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-hotplug If your USB controller has not died then perhaps this is the reason for your issue and for the issue with mice. Matt

Keith Winston

18:43

New subject: [SLE] RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

On Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 11:23:08AM -0700, Matthew Johnson wrote:

...

Hotplug support is a new feature added to Linux generally, basically they decided to lump PCI and USB under one heading 'Hotplug', Cannot remember where I saw this, probably on the kernel mailing list

Here is a link anyway:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-hotplug

Did you notice that hotplug has a status of "beta"? Best Regards, Keith -- LPIC-2, MCSE, N+ Got spam? Get spastic http://spastic.sourceforge.net

mike

30 Apr 30 Apr

01:25

New subject: [SLE] RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

On Sunday 28 April 2002 14:43, Keith Winston wrote:

...

On Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 11:23:08AM -0700, Matthew Johnson wrote:

...
Hotplug support is a new feature added to Linux generally, basically they decided to lump PCI and USB under one heading 'Hotplug', Cannot remember where I saw this, probably on the kernel mailing list

Here is a link anyway:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-hotplug

Did you notice that hotplug has a status of "beta"?

Best Regards, Keith

I noticed that it beats the hell out of Mandrake's USB driver for keeping track of a mouse on a switch. mg

Al Sutton

28 Apr 28 Apr

12:31

Since sending this I've been able to diagnose point 1) as being due to a incompatibility with my USB controller, and so I can access the IOMega ZIP CD from another USB controller. Al. On Sunday 28 April 2002 12:42, Al Sutton wrote:

...

I've now tried to get SuSE 8.0 Professional working, and I've come to the conclusion it's not suitable for production use, and so I've decided to switch back to the freely downloadable edition of RedHat 7.2.

The list of reasons why I'm doing this are;

1) SuSE 8.0 doesn't recognise my IOMega ZIP CD (which is about two years old), whereas RedHat has done for a number of months. This makes me nervous as to which other devices are supported within the Linux kernel, but not in SuSE.

2) SuSE 8.0's support for wireless PCMCIA networking is appauling, and I can't justify it's use on laptops on this basis. RedHat's configuration interface treats wireless networking as just another ethernet device if you want to do simple interface.

3) I'm unable to boot SuSE 8.0 from a floppy disk on machines with USB floppy and/or CD-ROM drives (which is extremly useful for laptops). RedHat 7.2 offers a boot from single disk option for floppy drives.

4) I am unable to download a CD image to do installation from, which means I'm at the mercy of my CD's not being lost, and if they are I have to buy a new set.

5) To install NFS server support I have to install a set of packages which YaST complains may cause problems with each other.

6) SuSE complains if I try perform an installation from CD and then try to install packages from the DVD. Aren't they the same, and if not why not?

I find this a shame, because I've heard some good things about SuSE, and I'm in the process of evaluating options for the base Linux distribution for the software product the company I work for sells.

My final opinion of the product is that it's unfinished and therefore not suiable for use in productions systems.

Before anyone starts offering me pointers to help files, FAQs, or any other source of "how to do this without using the SuSE tools", please don't. I'm of the opinion that if it's not integrated into SuSE's tools then SuSE probably don't want you to use it. The Wireless Lan section of the unofficial FAQ shows this well because it recommends switching off the SuSE setting in order to get things working.

Al.

andre

13:06

New subject: [SLE] Re: RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

Al Sutton wrote:

...

Since sending this I've been able to diagnose point 1) as being due to a incompatibility with my USB controller, and so I can access the IOMega ZIP CD from another USB controller.

Al.

same problem here too, seems some no name brand taiwanese motherboards ship with grotty USB. Solved when installed ASUS mob. Some of the other remarks aren't true though ;) eg. the most obvious no download images - why don't you just make backups of the disk(s) ?? Change frustrates - i spent few minutes trying to find where to disable sunrpc/portmap and ended up changing the run level scripts cause i just cannot find a similiar line to old rc.config portmap="no" ? Guess i need more skills ;) (a lot of gripes is just about not understanding) When deadrat brings out a new vers. i will look at it but SuSE is the cats whiskers. (I miss XINE ? What now for DVD's ?) 2c andre

Trent Clifton

13:28

New subject: I miss Xine

--- andre wrote:

...

(I miss XINE ? What now for DVD's ?)

What happened to Xine? Is it not included in the 8.0 distribution, or is it not compatable with 8.0, or...? -Trent __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com

andre

13:38

New subject: [SLE] Re: I miss Xine

Trent Clifton wrote:

...

--- andre wrote:

...
(I miss XINE ? What now for DVD's ?)

What happened to Xine? Is it not included in the 8.0 distribution, or is it not compatable with 8.0, or...?

-Trent

it is not included :( andre

Ewan Leith

13:35

New subject: [SLE] Re: RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

The same Xine DVD packages mentioned on this list a couple of months ago for suse 7,3 work fine for 8.0 (im using them myself). Ewan

...

(I miss XINE ? What now for DVD's ?)

2c

andre

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andre

13:42

New subject: [SLE] Re: RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

Ewan Leith wrote:

...

The same Xine DVD packages mentioned on this list a couple of months ago for suse 7,3 work fine for 8.0 (im using them myself).

Ewan

Hi Ewan, I get :: libXv.so.1 is required error. andre

Michael Hasenstein

29 Apr 29 Apr

18:41

New subject: [SLE] Re: RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

andre wrote:

...

Al Sutton wrote:

...
Since sending this I've been able to diagnose point 1) as being due to a incompatibility with my USB controller, and so I can access the IOMega ZIP CD from another USB controller. Al.

same problem here too, seems some no name brand taiwanese motherboards ship with grotty USB. Solved when installed ASUS mob. Some of the other remarks aren't true though ;) eg. the most obvious no download images - why don't you just make backups of the disk(s) ?? Change frustrates - i spent few minutes trying to find where to disable sunrpc/portmap and ended up changing the run level scripts cause i just cannot find a similiar line to old rc.config portmap="no" ?

look into /etc/sysconfig/* basically, rc.config has been split into many small files which are now in that directory. For LSB compatibility.

...

Guess i need more skills ;) (a lot of gripes is just about not understanding) When deadrat brings out a new vers. i will look at it but SuSE is the cats whiskers.

(I miss XINE ? What now for DVD's ?)

2c

andre

Art Fore

28 Apr 28 Apr

18:54

New subject: [SLE] RedHat -v- SuSE 8.0 - My opinion

I had the opposite problem than you, I eventually gave up on RedHat 7.2 and went to Suse 7.3. When I installed RH, installation went fine, but when I booted, I had a blank screen. Being new to Linux, it took me weeks to get RH 7.2 going, then is crashed continually with segmentation faults. My computer had NVIDIA card in it, and since the NVIDIA drivers were not open source, they did not support them. With Suse the Video worked out of the box with the nv driver. I upgraded to the NVIDIA drivers via yast2, which actually downloads the files from NVIDIA, and with the exception of one minor edit in the XF86Config file, it worked. Suse 7.3 had problems with PCMCIA and with modems, but this is fixed in 8.0, and it even installed sound drivers and sound works which was a pain in 7.3. I also find SuSE easier to work with and configure than RH. My only complaint with Suse is their support reply is so slow. Art Fore On Sunday 28 April 2002 04:42, Al Sutton wrote:

...

I've now tried to get SuSE 8.0 Professional working, and I've come to the conclusion it's not suitable for production use, and so I've decided to switch back to the freely downloadable edition of RedHat 7.2.

The list of reasons why I'm doing this are;

1) SuSE 8.0 doesn't recognise my IOMega ZIP CD (which is about two years old), whereas RedHat has done for a number of months. This makes me nervous as to which other devices are supported within the Linux kernel, but not in SuSE.

2) SuSE 8.0's support for wireless PCMCIA networking is appauling, and I can't justify it's use on laptops on this basis. RedHat's configuration interface treats wireless networking as just another ethernet device if you want to do simple interface.

3) I'm unable to boot SuSE 8.0 from a floppy disk on machines with USB floppy and/or CD-ROM drives (which is extremly useful for laptops). RedHat 7.2 offers a boot from single disk option for floppy drives.

4) I am unable to download a CD image to do installation from, which means I'm at the mercy of my CD's not being lost, and if they are I have to buy a new set.

5) To install NFS server support I have to install a set of packages which YaST complains may cause problems with each other.

6) SuSE complains if I try perform an installation from CD and then try to install packages from the DVD. Aren't they the same, and if not why not?

I find this a shame, because I've heard some good things about SuSE, and I'm in the process of evaluating options for the base Linux distribution for the software product the company I work for sells.

My final opinion of the product is that it's unfinished and therefore not suiable for use in productions systems.

Before anyone starts offering me pointers to help files, FAQs, or any other source of "how to do this without using the SuSE tools", please don't. I'm of the opinion that if it's not integrated into SuSE's tools then SuSE probably don't want you to use it. The Wireless Lan section of the unofficial FAQ

shows this well because it recommends switching off the SuSE setting in order to get things working.

Al.

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13 participants

participants (13)

Al Sutton
andre
Art Fore
Dave Smith
Ewan Leith
Keith Winston
Matthew Johnson
Michael Hasenstein
mike
Monte Milanuk
Philipp Thomas
Thorsten Kukuk
Trent Clifton