[opensuse] seems like we're about to get a flurry of end of life's due to new support cycle.
11.0 was EOL today 11.1 will EOL in December 11.2 next May (I'm pretty sure). My machines will all very likely be on 11.3 long before next May and a few will already be on 11.4 by then, but I thought I'd remind people that don't upgrade often that with the shorter 18-month support cycle starting with 11.2 it's going to be hard to stay on an older release for very long. ie. in this case you have 10 months to move to 11.3 before 11.2 support goes away. 11.4 will come at 8 months into the cycle, so if 11.3 is a no-go for you, hopefully 11.4 will work and you can bypass 11.3 and upgrade straight from 11.2 to 11.4 during the final 2 months of 11.2 support. And when 11.4 comes out next spring, you'll have 10 months to move to it, or skip it and have 2 months to go from 11.3 to 11.5, etc., etc. (Please, no flames, it's not my intent to start a flame fest, but I suspect many don't know about the new support cycle.) Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 15:29, Greg Freemyer wrote:
11.0 was EOL today 11.1 will EOL in December 11.2 next May (I'm pretty sure).
My machines will all very likely be on 11.3 long before next May and a few will already be on 11.4 by then, but I thought I'd remind people that don't upgrade often that with the shorter 18-month support cycle starting with 11.2 it's going to be hard to stay on an older release for very long.
ie. in this case you have 10 months to move to 11.3 before 11.2 support goes away. 11.4 will come at 8 months into the cycle, so if 11.3 is a no-go for you, hopefully 11.4 will work and you can bypass 11.3 and upgrade straight from 11.2 to 11.4 during the final 2 months of 11.2 support.
And when 11.4 comes out next spring, you'll have 10 months to move to it, or skip it and have 2 months to go from 11.3 to 11.5, etc., etc.
(Please, no flames, it's not my intent to start a flame fest, but I suspect many don't know about the new support cycle.)
Eeeep :-P Thanks for clarifying this Greg. It was something lurking in my mind, but I hadn't taken time to look into it yet.... C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 15:29, Greg Freemyer wrote:
11.0 was EOL today 11.1 will EOL in December 11.2 next May (I'm pretty sure).
My machines will all very likely be on 11.3 long before next May and a few will already be on 11.4 by then, but I thought I'd remind people that don't upgrade often that with the shorter 18-month support cycle starting with 11.2 it's going to be hard to stay on an older release for very long.
ie. in this case you have 10 months to move to 11.3 before 11.2 support goes away. 11.4 will come at 8 months into the cycle, so if 11.3 is a no-go for you, hopefully 11.4 will work and you can bypass 11.3 and upgrade straight from 11.2 to 11.4 during the final 2 months of 11.2 support.
And when 11.4 comes out next spring, you'll have 10 months to move to it, or skip it and have 2 months to go from 11.3 to 11.5, etc., etc.
(Please, no flames, it's not my intent to start a flame fest, but I suspect many don't know about the new support cycle.)
Eeeep :-P Thanks for clarifying this Greg. It was something lurking in my mind, but I hadn't taken time to look into it yet....
Not so much a problem to keep well running servers running, until you need something new (like clamd now has the habbit to stop working when the version is too old).
C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-- L. de Braal BraHa Systems NL - Terneuzen T +31 115 649333 F +31 115 649444 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 7/26/2010 4:00 PM, Leen de Braal wrote:
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 15:29, Greg Freemyer wrote:
11.0 was EOL today 11.1 will EOL in December 11.2 next May (I'm pretty sure).
/snip/
Eeeep :-P Thanks for clarifying this Greg. It was something lurking in my mind, but I hadn't taken time to look into it yet....
Not so much a problem to keep well running servers running, until you need something new (like clamd now has the habbit to stop working when the version is too old).
C.
The deal with clamd (whatever it is) is exactly what drove me to look at Linux in the first place--the idea that M/S would implement something like this to force you to upgrade at their ridiculous prices, or to pay a rental payment after a certain period of time. It's now the anti-malware programs that do that, and of course, you can't run M/S without anti-malware. But for Linux to start down this bitter path is atrocious! (Another thread has already illustrated this problem vis-a-vis KDE-3.) --doug -- Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 07/26/2010 03:15 PM, Doug wrote:
On 7/26/2010 4:00 PM, Leen de Braal wrote:
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 15:29, Greg Freemyer wrote:
11.0 was EOL today 11.1 will EOL in December 11.2 next May (I'm pretty sure).
/snip/
Eeeep :-P Thanks for clarifying this Greg. It was something lurking in my mind, but I hadn't taken time to look into it yet....
Not so much a problem to keep well running servers running, until you need something new (like clamd now has the habbit to stop working when the version is too old).
C.
The deal with clamd (whatever it is) is exactly what drove me to look at Linux in the first place--the idea that M/S would implement something like this to force you to upgrade at their ridiculous prices, or to pay a rental payment after a certain period of time. It's now the anti-malware programs that do that, and of course, you can't run M/S without anti-malware. But for Linux to start down this bitter path is atrocious! (Another thread has already illustrated this problem vis-a-vis KDE-3.)
But Doug, Clamav is OpenSource and free. It's an antivirus package for Linux and, while it can be used on a single-user desktop, it's really intended for use on SMTP MTA servers. Clamav's end-of-life process merely enforces good security practices, since older versions might not flag current malware. Further, even if you run your installation past your distribution's end-of-life you can always download and install Clamav manually. Hint: It's trivially easy to do. Hardly a bitter and atrocious path. Relax and accept the Tao of OpenSource. Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 7/26/2010 6:15 PM, Doug wrote:
On 7/26/2010 4:00 PM, Leen de Braal wrote:
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 15:29, Greg Freemyer wrote:
11.0 was EOL today 11.1 will EOL in December 11.2 next May (I'm pretty sure).
/snip/
Eeeep :-P Thanks for clarifying this Greg. It was something lurking in my mind, but I hadn't taken time to look into it yet....
Not so much a problem to keep well running servers running, until you need something new (like clamd now has the habbit to stop working when the version is too old).
C.
The deal with clamd (whatever it is) is exactly what drove me to look at Linux in the first place--the idea that M/S would implement something like this to force you to upgrade at their ridiculous prices, or to pay a rental payment after a certain period of time. It's now the anti-malware programs that do that, and of course, you can't run M/S without anti-malware. But for Linux to start down this bitter path is atrocious! (Another thread has already illustrated this problem vis-a-vis KDE-3.)
The difference is in linux you have actually choices. Ubuntu has LTS releases , 5 year support, just exactly for this reason. I don't know what every other distro has in terms of long term support options but they almost all have some option. Further, inconvenient as it may seem, it's at least possible, allowed, and not exactly that hard, to just maintain your own support for old distros. I have a copy of the oss, non-oss, and updates repos for 32 and 64 bit of opensuse from 10.0 up, and the original boxed media for 9.0 and 9.3 too but not a copy of the updates repos. I rsync copy the repos while they are up and just keep them after that. When I need to update a package for an old repo, I just copy the src.rpm to one of the old boxes running that version and rebuild. The spec file sometimes needs fixing and sometimes there are dependencies that need similar updating but it's all doable. Then the resulting binary rpm goes into my own repo so it's availabe to my other machines without further rebuilding. That possible vs not-possible is all the difference in the world from MS, Apple, Adobe, etc... I have production boxes with 200 users each(live, interactive login application users, all day every day) running on 10.0 and every version since. It's impractical and indeed irresponsible to upgrade them without real cause, like the box exploded cause. And occasionally I do have to add or update some package on all boxes to support the ever ongoing development of our main application we rent use of, so I do have to do this rebuilding somewhat routinely and it's never been much of a problem so far. In fact my biggest problem has been the other way around, getting some old software to build on new versions of opensuse since it used to be part of opensuse and now we absoluetly require it, and it's no longer part of opensuse, and the original authors haven't touched it in years and the language it's written in has changed over time such that the old source is no longer valid. (The package is pdftk and requires a specific old (or older) version of gcj and libgcj. I currently manage to maintain it in the build service since luckily gcj43/libgcj43 are still maintained in opensuse even though newer versions are also included. But when that breaks (I haven't even looked at 11.3 yet) it won't really be that big of a deal since I can just maintain it in my own local repo almost as easily, or I can add libgccj43 to my build service repo if it gets removed from opensuse oss/non-oss) The comparison with MS is really a bit unfair in this light. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Brian K. White wrote:
The difference is in linux you have actually choices. Ubuntu has LTS releases , 5 year support, just exactly for this reason.
That is Ubuntu's biggest advantage, IMHO, and openSUSE's biggest weakness. YaST is openSUSE's best feature. It used to be the software management part but synaptic is pretty much the same now. Ubuntu's distribution upgrade and boot management is better, so where YaST really wins out for me at the moment is the disk 'partitioner'.
Further, inconvenient as it may seem, it's at least possible, allowed, and not exactly that hard, to just maintain your own support for old distros. ... I have production boxes with 200 users each(live, interactive login application users, all day every day) ...
And in your position, that makes your solution very reasonable. But I'm a developer, not an admin, and the only reason I do admin is because the people who are paid to do it here will only do it for M$ or OSX (unless I'm willing to share a communal RedHat box). So what I look for is ease of admin and least grief.
The comparison with MS is really a bit unfair in this light.
Indeed. --M$ Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2010-07-27 at 10:31 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
Brian K. White wrote:
The difference is in linux you have actually choices. Ubuntu has LTS releases , 5 year support, just exactly for this reason.
That is Ubuntu's biggest advantage, IMHO, and openSUSE's biggest weakness. YaST is openSUSE's best feature. It used to be the software management part but synaptic is pretty much the same now. Ubuntu's distribution upgrade and boot management is better, so where YaST really wins out for me at the moment is the disk 'partitioner'.
One little niggle here, 5 Years is for the server edition, it's 3 years on the desktop. "As you've probably seen, Canonical just released the latest LTS (long-term support) version of Ubuntu. Ubuntu 10.04 (Lucid Lynx) exists in both desktop and server form. The desktop form will be supported for three years and the server version five years, making the OS an appealing option for enterprise users. I looked at the server edition for ServerWatch.: http://www.serverwatch.com/article.php/3885826/Ubuntu-LTS-1004-a-Linux-OS-at... It's supposed to be a breeze upping the distro from one LTS to the next. (It wasn't that bad doing the 9,04 to 9.10 to 10.04, but it sucked a good bit of bandwidth.) {snip} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
[re-sending] On 2010-07-26 15:29, Greg Freemyer wrote:
11.0 was EOL today 11.1 will EOL in December 11.2 next May (I'm pretty sure).
My machines will all very likely be on 11.3 long before next May and a few will already be on 11.4 by then, but I thought I'd remind people that don't upgrade often that with the shorter 18-month support cycle starting with 11.2 it's going to be hard to stay on an older release for very long.
ie. in this case you have 10 months to move to 11.3 before 11.2 support goes away. 11.4 will come at 8 months into the cycle, so if 11.3 is a no-go for you, hopefully 11.4 will work and you can bypass 11.3 and upgrade straight from 11.2 to 11.4 during the final 2 months of 11.2 support.
It is indeed a problem, worsened because the repos disappear (instead of being left as static archives for some time). -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" GM (Elessar))
participants (9)
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Brian K. White -
C -
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Howorth -
Doug -
Greg Freemyer -
Leen de Braal -
Lew Wolfgang -
Mike McMullin