Hi everyone, Can I resize my / patition? I installed 8.2 to a large (100gb) drive and would like to reduce the / partion to something more manageable. I tried to resize with Yast/Partitioner, got a message advising me that resizing ReiserFS is possible, but has not been very well tested. I proceeded, but then got a message that this cannot be done on a mounted partition. Can I unmount a running / partition? Another option would be to run a dos/windows based partiting program to reduce the size, but I am unsure what effect this will have on the operation of 8.2. Thanks for any suggestions. Jim Flanagan
On Thursday 18 December 2003 8:09 pm, Linuxjim wrote:
Hi everyone,
Can I resize my / patition?
I'll get back to that, but first...
Can I unmount a running / partition?
no -- the dos/microsoft equivalent would be akin to pulling drive-C out of your system "while it was on", which as you can imagine, would be disasterous. HOWEVER, you can unmount it if you boot from the "rescue" portion of the installation CD [actually, it won't, by default, get mounted in the first place...] so what you want to do is possible, and you don't even need to use a "dos" partitioner/sizer You said that you installed this on a large [100gb] drive and basically want to make things "easier to manage" -- generally, creating more partitions makes things harder, so I'm not sure what you'll gain by this. One important question is "what other partitions did you set aside" [and how large are they?] By this, I mean, "did you create a seperate partition and mount it as /home, /var, /opt, or any other similar top-level directory?" These are the usual suspects for mounting "on a seperate drive" [partition], and making an error in judgement as to the size needed will be annoying to say the least. One thing you might want to take a look at is the LVM -- Logical Volume Manager. This lets you break up a larger disk into smaller "virtual" drives which you can resize, append, and generally mess-with to your heart's content. [you can even use this to combine two or more smaller drives into one larger "virtual" drive] -- Yet another Blog: http://osnut.homelinux.net
On Thursday 18 December 2003 22:25, Tom Emerson wrote
On Thursday 18 December 2003 8:09 pm, Linuxjim wrote:
Hi everyone,
Can I resize my / patition?
I'll get back to that, but first...
Can I unmount a running / partition?
no -- the dos/microsoft equivalent would be akin to pulling drive-C out of your system "while it was on", which as you can imagine, would be disasterous. HOWEVER, you can unmount it if you boot from the "rescue" portion of the installation CD [actually, it won't, by default, get mounted in the first place...] so what you want to do is possible, and you don't even need to use a "dos" partitioner/sizer
No, I would not do that except by booting from a CD to run that program, but am still concerned Suse would not like the change without knowing about it first.
You said that you installed this on a large [100gb] drive and basically want to make things "easier to manage" -- generally, creating more partitions makes things harder, so I'm not sure what you'll gain by this. One important question is "what other partitions did you set aside" [and how large are they?] By this, I mean, "did you create a seperate partition and mount it as /home, /var, /opt, or any other similar top-level directory?" These are the usual suspects for mounting "on a seperate drive" [partition], and making an error in judgement as to the size needed will be annoying to say the least.
Suse is installed on hdb with two partitions, native, and swap. I would like to have one or more others just for what you are suggesting.
One thing you might want to take a look at is the LVM -- Logical Volume Manager. This lets you break up a larger disk into smaller "virtual" drives which you can resize, append, and generally mess-with to your heart's content. [you can even use this to combine two or more smaller drives into one larger "virtual" drive]
I'm not sure what you mean by "virtual" drive. When you "break up" a larger drive, does this effectively "resize" the partition (make hdb1 and hdb2 for example) or is virtual something else?
On Thursday 18 December 2003 8:54 pm, Linuxjim wrote:
On Thursday 18 December 2003 22:25, Tom Emerson wrote
On Thursday 18 December 2003 8:09 pm, Linuxjim wrote:
Can I unmount a running / partition?
no -- HOWEVER, you can unmount it if you boot from the "rescue" portion of the installation CD ...
No, I would not do that except by booting from a CD to run that program,
looks like we're on the same page here -- good :)
but am still concerned Suse would not like the change without knowing about it first.
The only part you truly have to worry about is the physical placement of the "kernel" -- the loader process is a "bootstrap" type program that knows enough to physically manipulate the drive to position the head and read sectors, but doesn't /really/ know about partitions, formats, directories, etc. Lilo [in particular] makes a "map" of where the kernel is "on the disk" so that the boot loader can simply "read" it without needing to walk directories, mount partitions, etc. But all of that is a red herring -- generally, the "kernel" is one of the first few things written to the disk [unless you compile it yourself], so it would be pretty rare for a "resize" activity to "move around" the kernel such that the loader would fail. Once the kernel is loaded, it DOES know how to "deal with" partitions, filesystem (formats), directories, and so on. At this point the root directory (/) gets mounted and the kernel can actually locate and read the remaining configuration files (in /etc...) Since the kernel will be reading the directory, any "resizing" that moves a critical file would be OK since [presumably] the resizer also rewrites the directory
You said that you installed this on a large drive ... [typically other partitions are /home, /var, and so on]
Suse is installed on hdb with two partitions, native, and swap. I would like to have one or more others just for what you are suggesting.
One thing you might want to take a look at is the LVM -- Logical Volume Manager. This lets you break up a larger disk into smaller "virtual" drives which you can resize, append, and generally mess-with to your heart's content. [you can even use this to combine two or more smaller drives into one larger "virtual" drive]
I'm not sure what you mean by "virtual" drive. When you "break up" a larger drive, does this effectively "resize" the partition (make hdb1 and hdb2 for example) or is virtual something else?
something else: /dev/vg<number>/<volumeName> the LVM is a fairly advanced topic -- one I'm still "learning" myself, so I don't feel confident in saying explicitly "do this and it will work...", but rather, "read up on it, figure out the neat things it does, backup your system, devise a "volume grouping" plan, and reinstall to implement that plan" [and, of course, restore your data from the backup...] In fact, even though I *am* using some vg's on a system, it recently crashed and the "recovery effort" I went through opened my eyes to the fact that I need to do things a little differently anyway, so I'll soon be in the backup/reinstall/ restore cycle myself ;) -- Yet another Blog: http://osnut.homelinux.net
OK, since I don't have Knoppix, I booted from the Suse CD. However I could not get Yast to run. So, not knowing the command lines, I tried using the Suse Live Eval disk for 9.0 that I already have. I ran Yast from there and used Partitioner there and it worked great (I did get two error messages stating that crypting could not be completed on the 2 Loops that the live eval used, but that seemed to create no problems). I resized the one large partition down to about 20GB. Now, what would be a logical use of the remaing space. I have read that some users put their home dir on another partition, and perhaps usr as well. What is a logical structure for a home user?? Also, should the newly created partitions be primary or extended??? Thanks to all for the great advise. Jim Flanagan On Thursday 18 December 2003 23:41, Tom Emerson wrote:
On Thursday 18 December 2003 8:54 pm, Linuxjim wrote:
On Thursday 18 December 2003 22:25, Tom Emerson wrote
On Thursday 18 December 2003 8:09 pm, Linuxjim wrote:
Can I unmount a running / partition?
no -- HOWEVER, you can unmount it if you boot from the "rescue" portion of the installation CD ...
No, I would not do that except by booting from a CD to run that program,
looks like we're on the same page here -- good :)
but am still concerned Suse would not like the change without knowing about it first.
The only part you truly have to worry about is the physical placement of the "kernel" -- the loader process is a "bootstrap" type program that knows enough to physically manipulate the drive to position the head and read sectors, but doesn't /really/ know about partitions, formats, directories, etc. Lilo [in particular] makes a "map" of where the kernel is "on the disk" so that the boot loader can simply "read" it without needing to walk directories, mount partitions, etc.
But all of that is a red herring -- generally, the "kernel" is one of the first few things written to the disk [unless you compile it yourself], so it would be pretty rare for a "resize" activity to "move around" the kernel such that the loader would fail.
Once the kernel is loaded, it DOES know how to "deal with" partitions, filesystem (formats), directories, and so on. At this point the root directory (/) gets mounted and the kernel can actually locate and read the remaining configuration files (in /etc...) Since the kernel will be reading the directory, any "resizing" that moves a critical file would be OK since [presumably] the resizer also rewrites the directory
You said that you installed this on a large drive ... [typically other partitions are /home, /var, and so on]
Suse is installed on hdb with two partitions, native, and swap. I would like to have one or more others just for what you are suggesting.
One thing you might want to take a look at is the LVM -- Logical Volume Manager. This lets you break up a larger disk into smaller "virtual" drives which you can resize, append, and generally mess-with to your heart's content. [you can even use this to combine two or more smaller drives into one larger "virtual" drive]
I'm not sure what you mean by "virtual" drive. When you "break up" a larger drive, does this effectively "resize" the partition (make hdb1 and hdb2 for example) or is virtual something else?
something else: /dev/vg<number>/<volumeName>
the LVM is a fairly advanced topic -- one I'm still "learning" myself, so I don't feel confident in saying explicitly "do this and it will work...", but rather, "read up on it, figure out the neat things it does, backup your system, devise a "volume grouping" plan, and reinstall to implement that plan" [and, of course, restore your data from the backup...] In fact, even though I *am* using some vg's on a system, it recently crashed and the "recovery effort" I went through opened my eyes to the fact that I need to do things a little differently anyway, so I'll soon be in the backup/reinstall/ restore cycle myself ;)
On Sunday 21 December 2003 6:27 am, Linuxjim wrote: [reordered slightly]
I tried using the Suse Live Eval disk for 9.0 ... I ran Yast from there and used Partitioner there and it worked great
Cool! I should note this for members of my user group who might ask a similar question... ;)
I resized the one large partition down to about 20GB. [and later asked] Also, should the newly created partitions be primary or extended???
Due to things that might even predate Microsoft's "hand" in things, hard disks can only have 4 "partitions" -- typically, only one would be considered "active" [this is the one that "boots"] Dos/windows would only recognize one active partition, which made it pretty easy to "dual boot" to "some other OS" by simply changing which partition was "active" [also, since each partition was seperate, you didn't have to worry about one OS clobbering the data of another...] It soon became obvious that 4 partitions aren't enough, so a workaround was created whereby one of the partitions could be made an "extended" partition -- this would also be "available", but it wouldn't be the "active" [boot] partition. Within this partition, you could make quite a few more partitions [there is probably a limit, but I've never run into it...] So, "with all that said..." you typically want to make all of the "free space" you've opened up an "extended" partition, and from there you would assign other [logical] partitions to hold the rest of your data.
Now, what would be a logical use of the remaing space. I have read that some users put their home dir on another partition, and perhaps usr as well. What is a logical structure for a home user??
SuSE's admin guide/user manual talks about this a bit, but as you've already figured out, no two installations are alike -- what's good for one situation may not be suitable for another. In general, however, putting the "/home" portion of the directory tree in it's own partition is widely accepted as "a good thing" -- when you update your system [to 9.1, 10.x, or even a completely different distro] you don't have to "back up and restore" your (personal) data since a new installation can be set to "not format the /home partition" [in windows terms, think of it as having placed your "my documents" folder on drive D: instead of C:...] putting /var in it's own partition helps eliminate "typcial unix problems" when you get a "runaway" process that is logging data (typically to /var/log/ messages) -- most unix installations [even windows, for that matter] really doesn't like it when "the root partition" fills up -- by placing /var in it's own partition, you avoid this (often hard to recognize) problem [aside: once I started a process that backgrounded itself without my knowing it, and it was logging a block of data every 2 seconds -- several days later, the system stopped with "out of disk space" messages...] -- Yet another Blog: http://osnut.homelinux.net
On Sunday 21 December 2003 16:14, Tom Emerson wrote:
On Sunday 21 December 2003 6:27 am, Linuxjim wrote: [reordered slightly]
I tried using the Suse Live Eval disk for 9.0 ... I ran Yast from there and used Partitioner there and it worked great
Cool! I should note this for members of my user group who might ask a similar question... ;)
I resized the one large partition down to about 20GB.
[and later asked]
Also, should the newly created partitions be primary or extended???
Due to things that might even predate Microsoft's "hand" in things, hard disks can only have 4 "partitions" -- typically, only one would be considered "active" [this is the one that "boots"] Dos/windows would only recognize one active partition, which made it pretty easy to "dual boot" to "some other OS" by simply changing which partition was "active" [also, since each partition was seperate, you didn't have to worry about one OS clobbering the data of another...]
It soon became obvious that 4 partitions aren't enough, so a workaround was created whereby one of the partitions could be made an "extended" partition -- this would also be "available", but it wouldn't be the "active" [boot] partition. Within this partition, you could make quite a few more partitions [there is probably a limit, but I've never run into it...]
So, "with all that said..." you typically want to make all of the "free space" you've opened up an "extended" partition, and from there you would assign other [logical] partitions to hold the rest of your data.
Now, what would be a logical use of the remaing space. I have read that some users put their home dir on another partition, and perhaps usr as well. What is a logical structure for a home user??
SuSE's admin guide/user manual talks about this a bit, but as you've already figured out, no two installations are alike -- what's good for one situation may not be suitable for another. In general, however, putting the "/home" portion of the directory tree in it's own partition is widely accepted as "a good thing" -- when you update your system [to 9.1, 10.x, or even a completely different distro] you don't have to "back up and restore" your (personal) data since a new installation can be set to "not format the /home partition" [in windows terms, think of it as having placed your "my documents" folder on drive D: instead of C:...]
putting /var in it's own partition helps eliminate "typcial unix problems" when you get a "runaway" process that is logging data (typically to /var/log/ messages) -- most unix installations [even windows, for that matter] really doesn't like it when "the root partition" fills up -- by placing /var in it's own partition, you avoid this (often hard to recognize) problem [aside: once I started a process that backgrounded itself without my knowing it, and it was logging a block of data every 2 seconds -- several days later, the system stopped with "out of disk space" messages...]
Thanks for the good info. I definately want home on its own partition. Will re-read the manuals and decide what else I want to move. Question, once I set a partition as home, how should I move the data? Just copy it over? Also, I think each partion should be mounted, but I haven't found out how to do that. Again, thanks for all the good help. Jim Flanagan
On Sunday 21 December 2003 5:29 pm, Linuxjim wrote:
Question, once I set a partition as home, how should I move the data? Just copy it over?
Yes, almost. When you create new partitions, they aren't part of the "directory tree" -- EVERYTHING has to be "in the tree" to be accessible -- as a result, the new partitions are, by default, "not accessible". To gain access, you MOUNT them "somewhere" in the directory tree -- this is the so-called "mount point", and all it really is is an (empty) directory. In your case, you should create a temporary mount point like this: $ cd /mnt [/mnt is a pretty standard "basic mount point"] $ md tmphome $ mount /dev/hda<x> tmphome The "<x>" above should be the NUMBER of the new partition that you created. You can then copy [or move, actually] the /home contents to /tmphome [you will probably have to do this as root; just make sure to retain permissions and ownership...] After you've moved the files, the real "/home" directory will now be empty, so issue these commands: $ cd /mnt $ umount tmpome $ cd / $ mount /dev/hda<x> home Notice that the UNMOUNT command has only ONE "n" in it [don't ask me why -- it
Also, I think each partion should be mounted, but I haven't found out how to do that.
The above commands show how to do that manually, however you'll probably want this to be automatic at bootup :) For this, there is a configuration file in /etc called "fstab" which contains the mount points for every partition. You may see some with the option "noauto" on the line -- as you might giess, "auto" is the default, and it means that when the command "mount -a" is issued, all lines in fstab that don't have "noauto" will be automatically mounted. If you scan the startup/init scripts, you'll find this mount command in one of them... Of course, editing this file by hand can be a little daunting for a first-time admin -- if you prefer the graphical method of management, in the Yast partitioner application you will see a drop-down box where you set the default mount point, (or type in a mount point if the one you want to use wasn't pre-specified) and a button called "fstab options" -- this lets you set things like "don't mount at boot" [noauto], let any user mount it, etc. -- Yet another Blog: http://osnut.homelinux.net
Thank you very much for such a clear explanation. Jerome On Sunday 21 December 2003 08:11 pm, Tom Emerson wrote:
On Sunday 21 December 2003 5:29 pm, Linuxjim wrote:
Question, once I set a partition as home, how should I move the data? Just copy it over?
Yes, almost. When you create new partitions, they aren't part of the "directory tree" -- EVERYTHING has to be "in the tree" to be accessible -- as a result, the new partitions are, by default, "not accessible". To gain access, you MOUNT them "somewhere" in the directory tree -- this is the so-called "mount point", and all it really is is an (empty) directory.
In your case, you should create a temporary mount point like this:
$ cd /mnt [/mnt is a pretty standard "basic mount point"] $ md tmphome $ mount /dev/hda<x> tmphome
The "<x>" above should be the NUMBER of the new partition that you created. You can then copy [or move, actually] the /home contents to /tmphome [you will probably have to do this as root; just make sure to retain permissions and ownership...] After you've moved the files, the real "/home" directory will now be empty, so issue these commands:
$ cd /mnt $ umount tmpome $ cd / $ mount /dev/hda<x> home
Notice that the UNMOUNT command has only ONE "n" in it [don't ask me why -- it
Also, I think each partion should be mounted, but I haven't found out how to do that.
The above commands show how to do that manually, however you'll probably want this to be automatic at bootup :) For this, there is a configuration file in /etc called "fstab" which contains the mount points for every partition. You may see some with the option "noauto" on the line -- as you might giess, "auto" is the default, and it means that when the command "mount -a" is issued, all lines in fstab that don't have "noauto" will be automatically mounted. If you scan the startup/init scripts, you'll find this mount command in one of them...
Of course, editing this file by hand can be a little daunting for a first-time admin -- if you prefer the graphical method of management, in the Yast partitioner application you will see a drop-down box where you set the default mount point, (or type in a mount point if the one you want to use wasn't pre-specified) and a button called "fstab options" -- this lets you set things like "don't mount at boot" [noauto], let any user mount it, etc.
On Monday 22 December 2003 01:36, Jerome Lyles wrote:
Thank you very much for such a clear explanation. Jerome
Absolutely! Many thanks Tom for all the great help. Will give it a go tonight. Jim Flanagan
On Sunday 21 December 2003 08:11 pm, Tom Emerson wrote:
On Sunday 21 December 2003 5:29 pm, Linuxjim wrote:
Question, once I set a partition as home, how should I move the data? Just copy it over?
Yes, almost. When you create new partitions, they aren't part of the "directory tree" -- EVERYTHING has to be "in the tree" to be accessible -- as a result, the new partitions are, by default, "not accessible". To gain access, you MOUNT them "somewhere" in the directory tree -- this is the so-called "mount point", and all it really is is an (empty) directory.
In your case, you should create a temporary mount point like this:
$ cd /mnt [/mnt is a pretty standard "basic mount point"] $ md tmphome $ mount /dev/hda<x> tmphome
The "<x>" above should be the NUMBER of the new partition that you created. You can then copy [or move, actually] the /home contents to /tmphome [you will probably have to do this as root; just make sure to retain permissions and ownership...] After you've moved the files, the real "/home" directory will now be empty, so issue these commands:
$ cd /mnt $ umount tmpome $ cd / $ mount /dev/hda<x> home
Notice that the UNMOUNT command has only ONE "n" in it [don't ask me why -- it
Also, I think each partion should be mounted, but I haven't found out how to do that.
The above commands show how to do that manually, however you'll probably want this to be automatic at bootup :) For this, there is a configuration file in /etc called "fstab" which contains the mount points for every partition. You may see some with the option "noauto" on the line -- as you might giess, "auto" is the default, and it means that when the command "mount -a" is issued, all lines in fstab that don't have "noauto" will be automatically mounted. If you scan the startup/init scripts, you'll find this mount command in one of them...
Of course, editing this file by hand can be a little daunting for a first-time admin -- if you prefer the graphical method of management, in the Yast partitioner application you will see a drop-down box where you set the default mount point, (or type in a mount point if the one you want to use wasn't pre-specified) and a button called "fstab options" -- this lets you set things like "don't mount at boot" [noauto], let any user mount it, etc.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:09:24 -0600, Linuxjim <linuxjim@earthlink.net> wrote:
Can I resize my / patition? I installed 8.2 to a large (100gb) drive and would like to reduce the / partion to something more manageable. I tried to resize with Yast/Partitioner, got a message advising me that resizing ReiserFS is possible, but has not been very well tested. I proceeded, but then got a message that this cannot be done on a mounted partition. Can I unmount a running / partition?
... i prefer to use knoppix (cd based Linux) for this type of work, and i recommend it to others -- << http://michaeljtobler.homelinux.com/ >> Once, adv.: Enough. "The Devil's Dictionary"
On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 11:49:37PM -0600, mjt wrote:
... i prefer to use knoppix (cd based Linux) for this type of work, and i recommend it to others
Mind if I ask you what are the advantages of knoppix over native SuSE CD in rescue mode when using to fix SuSE installation? Thank you, -Kastus
On Friday 19 December 2003 7:24 am, Kastus wrote:
On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 11:49:37PM -0600, mjt wrote:
... i prefer to use knoppix (cd based Linux) for this type of work, and i recommend it to others
Mind if I ask you what are the advantages of knoppix over native SuSE CD in rescue mode when using to fix SuSE installation?
this is a no-brainer... Knoppix puts you into a full graphical desktop and gives you access to lots of tools that only run in this mode. Not only that, but rescuing data is nice and easy as well as you can easily plug USB drives in. Also the settings that Knoppix has automatically set itself up to can be used as a baseline for things like xf86.config etc.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 23:24:08 -0800, Kastus <NOSPAM@tprfct.net> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 11:49:37PM -0600, mjt wrote:
... i prefer to use knoppix (cd based Linux) for this type of work, and i recommend it to others
Mind if I ask you what are the advantages of knoppix over native SuSE CD in rescue mode when using to fix SuSE installation?
... sure Kastus! in addition to the numerous home boxes i maintain (which, BTW, are running different distros), i also administer many other boxes out in the real world. so, for *me*, knoppix is my swiss-army knife of Linux utility CD distro :)) if i were to only work on suse boxen, then maybe the suse CD#1 boot method would be appropriate, but in my case, knoppix works for all -- << http://michaeljtobler.homelinux.com/ >> Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.
On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 02:16:50AM -0600, mjt wrote:
... sure Kastus!
What does ellipses at the start of your every posting mean? By definition, it's omission or suppression of parts of words or sentences, but I don't see anything omitted or suppressed. Just curious.
in addition to the numerous home boxes i maintain (which, BTW, are running different distros), i also administer many other boxes out in the real world. so, for *me*, knoppix is my swiss-army knife of Linux utility CD distro :))
In real life, I have to administer 100+ RedHat boxes and my swiss-army knife to fix a non-booting system is SuSE CD1
if i were to only work on suse boxen, then maybe the suse CD#1 boot method would be appropriate, but in my case, knoppix works for all
Just to confirm, in my case, SuSE CD1 works for all Regards, -Kastus
Kastus wrote:
On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 02:16:50AM -0600, mjt wrote:
... sure Kastus!
What does ellipses at the start of your every posting mean? By definition, it's omission or suppression of parts of words or sentences, but I don't see anything omitted or suppressed. Just curious.
in addition to the numerous home boxes i maintain (which, BTW, are running different distros), i also administer many other boxes out in the real world. so, for *me*, knoppix is my swiss-army knife of Linux utility CD distro :))
In real life, I have to administer 100+ RedHat boxes and my swiss-army knife to fix a non-booting system is SuSE CD1
if i were to only work on suse boxen, then maybe the suse CD#1 boot method would be appropriate, but in my case, knoppix works for all
Just to confirm, in my case, SuSE CD1 works for all
Regards, -Kastus
There are some excellent tools out there, I carry both knoppix and timos rescuecd, the latter boots much quicker than knoppix and loads into memory and so is faster when dealing with slow boxen and crud like laptops that need repair. At home when I have a down box, I boot knoppix and get straight to work. I've downloaded MandrakeMove beta CDROM which allows you to use the CDROM once it's loaded, like you can with timos rescuecd. I also hope to download the mepis 2 CD set and give that a try - in an article yesterday, a unashamed Mandrake hater was giving it praise as the only Mandrake based distro he ever liked. That's the beauty of Linux, there is always something that fits whatever you need with just a few CD's all bases are covered. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer Linux Only Shop.
On Friday 19 December 2003 18:01 pm, Kastus wrote:
On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 02:16:50AM -0600, mjt wrote:
... sure Kastus!
What does ellipses at the start of your every posting mean? By definition, it's omission or suppression of parts of words or sentences, but I don't see anything omitted or suppressed. Just curious.
The ellipsis can also indicate continuation from an earlier point. Dylan -- Sweet moderation Heart of this nation Desert us not We are between the wars - Billy Bragg
participants (8)
-
Dylan -
Jerome Lyles -
Kastus -
Linuxjim -
mjt -
Paul Cooke -
Sid Boyce -
Tom Emerson