On Friday 27 May 2005 21:40, Arie Reynaldi Z wrote:

...

Well if every idiot who can't RTFM and screws up the install would quit spamming SUSE-Linux-E with how "bad" 9.3 is maybe they would do a little better.

Oo, so now it'ss the users fault ? They are actually good parameters that people very eager to use suse and they might just another M$ users who try to swtich to linux beacuse of license problem. Yes, the still see linux as windows, they dont know what kind of hardware in their PC's, but they want to switch to SuSE. So bare with them if they screw in installation or they dont like to RTFM... :) And it should be respond positively from developer point of view. regards,

I believe there is a middle ground somewhere in here. When I came to Linux and open source, the pervailing opinion was that OSS was about contributing to improve the product you are using. People who break the seal on the DVD box and proceed to install SuSE Linux need to appreciate that they are working with a different business model than that which prevails in the software industry. We need to keep in mind that companies such as NVidia and, even worse, ATI, put almost all their effort into supporting operating systems made by one company which holds a virtual monopoly on the desktop market. I reveived 9 DVDs with my new NVidia card. All of them require operating systems made by that one company. Sure, when I stuck the NVidia CD in with that companies flagship OS running, I got all kinds of nify GUI help in installing the drivers. With SuSE, things were a bit more arcane, and did not work flawlessly. But I got it working. That means it can work, and work better. I reported my problems to SuSE, and shared my observation on this list, so that other people could learn from my experience. And that is the bottom line. It's about sharing, and working together rather than relying on one invisible master to solve all our problems. Imagine what would happen if all the hardware vendors who put their resources into providing extensions to the monopolistic OS were to provide enhancements to Linux, and other OSs with a commitment to compatability, and interoperability. As regards RTFM, that takes time, and requires that you UTFM (understand). That takes experience. I've had things go wrong with installs on the monopolistic OS. When that happens, I have virtually no way of looking behind the GUI and seeing what is actually going wrong. After several hours of trial and error, I may discover that I have to give a particular field in the GUI focus even though it does not require any input. If something goes wrong with a SuSE setup, I may spend the same number of hours tracing through hard to follow configuration scripts and find that, for some reason a particular file is not being replaced, or modified. I can then implement a workaround, and notify SuSE of the problem. IMO, when you break the seal on the distribution CD, you are making a commitment to expend a bit of effort, and do you part to improve the product for yourself, and for the rest of the world. SuSE doesn't own Linux, and Novell doesn't own Linux. You own Linux. The "free" in free software does not mean cost free, it means free as in live free or die. Find the term Stamp Act here: http://www.americanrevolution.com/KingGeorge3rd.htm -- Regards, Steven

Allen wrote:

On Fri, May 27, 2005 at 02:36:44PM -0700, Osho GG wrote:

...

See the full news at

http://news.com.com/Novell+reports+loss+as+older+business+shrinks/2100-1014_...

I hope this does not influence the future of SuSE Linux negatively. A quote from the article:

Well if every idiot who can't RTFM and screws up the install would quit spamming SUSE-Linux-E with how "bad" 9.3 is maybe they would do a little better.

Hmm, yet another SuSE geek's response to a serious problem :-) . Why don't people try Xandros Deluxe v3.0? Installs like a dream, recognises all the hardware, automatically resizes Windows partitions during installation, the sound works from the start, installs during the installation process the nVidia driver without all the crap about proprietary s/ware, and it even runs some M$ software like Photoshop and Office because it comes with CrossOver Office. Oh, and when you turn off the Screensaver it actually turns off and stays off. Personally I think this is the future desktop OS to replace M$, but what do I know. If you live in Australia, a copy of Xandros OCE (Open Circulation Edition) v3.0 is available on the DVD which comes with the June issue of the APC magazine and if you have broadband then you can download this version from the xandros site www.xandros.com . Try it.

...

"Revenue grew, but we'd like to see them grow more," Tibbetts said. "Even in our Linux business, we would have liked to do better there."

-- Osho

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

-- "The truth of the matter is, if you listen carefully, Saddam would still be in power if he were president of the United States, and the world would be a lot better off." George W Bush 8 October 2004.

Installs like a dream for you, but for me it doesn't. Xandros also doesn't support other things like SMP, among many other things, on Deluxe 3.0. You have to buy the Business Edition for that. Alfredo On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 09:26 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:

Basil,

On Saturday 28 May 2005 06:44, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

...

Why don't people try Xandros Deluxe v3.0? Installs like a dream, recognises all the hardware, automatically resizes Windows partitions during installation, the sound works from the start, installs during the installation process the nVidia driver without all the crap about proprietary s/ware, and it even runs some M$ software like Photoshop and Office because it comes with CrossOver Office. Oh, and when you turn off the Screensaver it actually turns off and stays off.

And already behind the times: Kernel 2.6.9, KDE 3.3, OO.o 1.1, X.org 6.7, Java 1.4.2, CrossOver Office 4.1 (which is a 30-day trial only). Limited s/w: Reiser and Ext3 only, e.g. But what would we expect: "Based on Debian..."

See http://www.xandros.com/products/home/desktopsurf/dsk_surf_details.html.

Generally speaking, there's no reason to think this distribution is any more impervious to things breaking (the screen saver, e.g.) as an individual user starts modifying and extending the configuration. And for what it's worth, I've not had any problem controlling my screen saver.

This distribution may be a good choice for some users, but probably not for those of us for whom SuSE is a good choice.

...

Personally I think this is the future desktop OS to replace M$, but what do I know.

Only you know what you know.

...

...

Randall Schulz

Alfredo Yunes wrote:

Installs like a dream for you, but for me it doesn't. Xandros also doesn't support other things like SMP, among many other things, on Deluxe 3.0. You have to buy the Business Edition for that.

Alfredo

On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 09:26 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

Basil,

On Saturday 28 May 2005 06:44, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

...

Why don't people try Xandros Deluxe v3.0? Installs like a dream, recognises all the hardware, automatically resizes Windows partitions during installation, the sound works from the start, installs during the installation process the nVidia driver without all the crap about proprietary s/ware, and it even runs some M$ software like Photoshop and Office because it comes with CrossOver Office. Oh, and when you turn off the Screensaver it actually turns off and stays off.

And already behind the times: Kernel 2.6.9, KDE 3.3, OO.o 1.1, X.org 6.7, Java 1.4.2, CrossOver Office 4.1 (which is a 30-day trial only). Limited s/w: Reiser and Ext3 only, e.g. But what would we expect: "Based on Debian..."

See http://www.xandros.com/products/home/desktopsurf/dsk_surf_details.html.

Generally speaking, there's no reason to think this distribution is any more impervious to things breaking (the screen saver, e.g.) as an individual user starts modifying and extending the configuration. And for what it's worth, I've not had any problem controlling my screen saver.

This distribution may be a good choice for some users, but probably not for those of us for whom SuSE is a good choice.

...

Personally I think this is the future desktop OS to replace M$, but what do I know.

Only you know what you know.

...

...

Randall Schulz

To the List: Actually buying and installing ANY version of Linux is the major goal of all on this list, I hope! But, when a distro has problems, instead of just bad mouthing it, people should ask for help!! The only "bad mouthing" I have, is that the distros come out with new versions WITHOUT COMPLETELY CORRECTING the problems with what is already out there!!! I am NOT upgrading from 9.2 to 9.3, simply because I have not mastered 9.2, which has a great deal to it! I do NOT understand how to untar no matter who gives me information on how to, for instance, and there are some minor upgrades that are tar that I would like to use and can't. So, is that the distro's fault? NO! I think, though, it would be nice if some of those who begrudge the neophytes attempts to learn and ask, would keep their fingers off the key board unless they have some CONSTRUCTIVE words to say!!!!! :-)

On Saturday 28 May 2005 22:13, Ken Schneider wrote:

On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 12:53 -0700, OldSarge wrote:

...

Alfredo Yunes wrote:

To the List: Actually buying and installing ANY version of Linux is the major goal of all on this list, I hope! But, when a distro has problems, instead of just bad mouthing it, people should ask for help!! The only "bad mouthing" I have, is that the distros come out with new versions WITHOUT COMPLETELY CORRECTING the problems with what is already out there!!! I am NOT upgrading from 9.2 to 9.3, simply because I have not mastered 9.2, which has a great deal to it! I do NOT understand how to untar no matter who gives me information on how to, for instance, and there are some minor upgrades that are tar that I would like to use and can't. So, is that the distro's fault? NO! I think, though, it would be nice if some of those who begrudge the neophytes attempts to learn and ask, would keep their fingers off the key board unless they have some CONSTRUCTIVE words to say!!!!! :-)

What is it about tar that you don't understand?

tar xvf some_tar_file.who_cares_about_the_extension

Or, since we're talking about 'neophytes', open konqueror the file manager, right-click on the tar file and "Extract" Linux is a desktop solution

On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 13:48 -0700, OldSarge wrote:

Ken Schneider wrote:

...

On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 12:53 -0700, OldSarge wrote:

...

What is it about tar that you don't understand?

tar xvf some_tar_file.who_cares_about_the_extension

will extract all of the files from a tar file. If the tar file is compressed use the appropriate switch: xzvf - for gzipped tar files xjvf - for bzipped tar files xZvf - for compressed tar files

If you only want to look at the contents of the tar file change the x (eXtract) with a t (for Tally).

It really is quite simple once you know a couple of basics. If you give me a specific example of a tar file I will give you the exact tar command.

To Mr. Schneider: Thank you for your response. The tar file I just downloaded is; /tmp/OOo_1.1.4_linuxintel_/install.tar.gz

cd /tmp tar xzvf OOo_1.1.4_linuxintel_install.tar.gz (You had a slash between _ and install which is not correct). cd OOo_1.1.4_linuxintel_install ./install (to install the package, follow the prompts). There may be a README file with further instructions. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge

Ken Schneider wrote:

On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 12:53 -0700, OldSarge wrote:

...

Alfredo Yunes wrote:

To the List: Actually buying and installing ANY version of Linux is the major goal of all on this list, I hope! But, when a distro has problems, instead of just bad mouthing it, people should ask for help!! The only "bad mouthing" I have, is that the distros come out with new versions WITHOUT COMPLETELY CORRECTING the problems with what is already out there!!! I am NOT upgrading from 9.2 to 9.3, simply because I have not mastered 9.2, which has a great deal to it! I do NOT understand how to untar no matter who gives me information on how to, for instance, and there are some minor upgrades that are tar that I would like to use and can't. So, is that the distro's fault? NO! I think, though, it would be nice if some of those who begrudge the neophytes attempts to learn and ask, would keep their fingers off the key board unless they have some CONSTRUCTIVE words to say!!!!! :-)

What is it about tar that you don't understand?

tar xvf some_tar_file.who_cares_about_the_extension

will extract all of the files from a tar file. If the tar file is compressed use the appropriate switch: xzvf - for gzipped tar files xjvf - for bzipped tar files xZvf - for compressed tar files

If you only want to look at the contents of the tar file change the x (eXtract) with a t (for Tally).

It really is quite simple once you know a couple of basics. If you give me a specific example of a tar file I will give you the exact tar command.

To Mr. Schneider: correct that to read /tmp/OOo_1.1.4_linuxintel_install.tar.gz

Randall R Schulz wrote: [snip]

And already behind the times: Kernel 2.6.9, KDE 3.3, OO.o 1.1, X.org 6.7, Java 1.4.2, CrossOver Office 4.1 (which is a 30-day trial only). Limited s/w: Reiser and Ext3 only, e.g. But what would we expect: "Based on Debian..." [snip]

IME, the vast majority of users neither know nor care whether they are up with or behind the times. They just want something that is dead easy to install and use, which comes with the right kind of software and which works very reliably. Since users like this probably won't be running particularly new hardware, older programs that go easier on resources can be a plus point. These users exist in their countless millions. They simply do not have the money to buy new copies of Windows software and fancy new hardware. A friend of mine who runs an old p2 recently asked me what a "computer's bios" was. They had never heard the term and hadn't any idea. I guess anyone who wants to produce a pop OS really has to start at a level that's this basic. My own money is on Ubuntu, but not for a couple of years at a guess. Oh, and "based on Debian" may well be the wave of the future anyway, not a putdown. The city of Munich clearly thinks so. :) Fish

On Saturday 28 May 2005 23:14, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

Well, following that train of thought then what would explain the Australian University that I just read about that got rid of their Debian lab in favor of an OS X lab?

A donation? As long as OS X is tied to an overly expensive hardware platform it will never be more than a niche player, no matter how good it is. For the same reason you will always see more Toyotas and Hondas than Ferraris or BMWs on the streets If IBM would price the POWER platform more reasonably though, I would leap at it. Those chips really are nice

On Saturday 28 May 2005 23:44, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

On 5/28/05, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

As long as OS X is tied to an overly expensive hardware platform it will never be more than a niche player, no matter how good it is. For the same reason you will always see more Toyotas and Hondas than Ferraris or BMWs on the streets

FUD

How is that FUD? FUD stands for Fear, uncertainty and doubt. The price of the POWER platform is out there for anyone to see. While the price tag does scare me, there is no uncertainty or doubt about it. It is bloody expensive

...

If IBM would price the POWER platform more reasonably though, I would leap at it. Those chips really are nice

Cell

huh?

On Sunday 29 May 2005 00:27, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

On 5/28/05, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

On Saturday 28 May 2005 23:44, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

...

On 5/28/05, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

As long as OS X is tied to an overly expensive hardware platform it will never be more than a niche player, no matter how good it is. For the same reason you will always see more Toyotas and Hondas than Ferraris or BMWs on the streets

FUD

How is that FUD? FUD stands for Fear, uncertainty and doubt. The price of the POWER platform is out there for anyone to see. While the price tag does scare me, there is no uncertainty or doubt about it. It is bloody expensive

FUD in this sense equals bullshit.

Cute

A comparable Dual AMD 64 is as expensive or more expensive the a Dual G5 of the same power so again... the cost buy in argument is crap.

Oh I am sorry, I do beg your forgiveness. All the masses who went out and bought dual Opterons for their desktops could have gotten dual G5s for the same price. My my, what a mistake to make, how could I have been so stupid

And when you have the Mini, iBook, iMac and eMac out there.. again for what you get .. it's not expensive.

Most people can't buy on a cost/performance argument, most people have to look at actual money spent

But then again I don't give a shit... let people use what they want but don't use that niche market shit... it's the same argument that Windows user use against Linux .. "well, until grandma can use it.. it's a niche player".

No, not really. Until it gets a significant percentage of users it is, and yes, linux on the desktop is a niche player still (linux on the server isn't).

...

...

Cell

huh?

PPC Cell Processor.. ie. XBox 360 and Playstation 3 as well as the new server blades that IBM showed at E3. There is also talk that these will power Apple laptops and Desktops in the very near future. They top out at 3.8ghz now but IBM says they will be running at 4.6Ghz within 18 months.

Sounds very interesting

On Saturday 28 May 2005 6:48 pm, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

PPC Cell Processor.. ie. XBox 360 and Playstation 3 as well as the new server blades that IBM showed at E3. There is also talk that these will power Apple laptops and Desktops in the very near future. They top out at 3.8ghz now but IBM says they will be running at 4.6Ghz within 18 months.

Sounds very interesting

It is. ;) Fred -- "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" Brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security and the Patriot Act(s) numerous Presidential Directives, etc.

Mark, On Saturday 28 May 2005 13:51, Mark Crean wrote:

Randall R Schulz wrote: [snip]

...

And already behind the times: Kernel 2.6.9, KDE 3.3, OO.o 1.1, X.org 6.7, Java 1.4.2, CrossOver Office 4.1 (which is a 30-day trial only). Limited s/w: Reiser and Ext3 only, e.g. But what would we expect: "Based on Debian..."

[snip]

IME, the vast majority of users neither know nor care whether they are up with or behind the times. They just want something that is dead easy to install and use, which comes with the right kind of software and which works very reliably. Since users like this probably won't be running particularly new hardware, older programs that go easier on resources can be a plus point. These users exist in their countless millions. They simply do not have the money to buy new copies of Windows software and fancy new hardware.

The real point of my post was the part you neglected to quote or respond to:

This distribution may be a good choice for some users, but probably not for those of us for whom SuSE is a good choice.

If you want no muss, no fuss, then maybe one of the laggard distributions is a better choice. I truly appreciate having available the myriad improvements that the authors of the software I use are continually making. I really notice _and miss_ what's absent from my RedHat Enterprise 3 desktop at work vis a vis SuSE 9.3. KMail has come quite a long way in the past year or so, e.g. If users just want a box for email and Web browsing, then any old thing will do. That's not me and that's not, I think, the users SuSE caters to.

A friend of mine who runs an old p2 recently asked me what a "computer's bios" was. They had never heard the term and hadn't any idea. I guess anyone who wants to produce a pop OS really has to start at a level that's this basic. My own money is on Ubuntu, but not for a couple of years at a guess.

I'm a professional software developer. I can't live at the end of the technology spectrum where these people do. It gets pretty hard just trying to be helpful to them after a while. On the other hand, I was at a bookstore the other day and the cash register (the "point-of-sale terminal"), which was Windows-based, was having problems, possibly hardware-related--it wouldn't acknowledge the mouse that was plainly there and correctly connected. The person staffing the register, who identified herself as a nurse (this was the Stanford medical bookstore, which happens to have a decent IT section, too) couldn't get the thing through its start-up processing to enable its function as a cash register. I used the arrow keys to select the icon she said she needed to click to boot the POS terminal (delicious double entendre, eh?) and got the thing going. Ignoring one more diagnostic alert was all that was required, since the mouse was not used during normal operations. Now here's the good part: She gave me 10% off my purchase for being a good samaritan!

Oh, and "based on Debian" may well be the wave of the future anyway, not a putdown. The city of Munich clearly thinks so.

Good for them. Novell's going to have to make a lot of mistakes to drive me away from SuSE.

:)

Fish

Randall Schulz

On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 12:26, Randall R Schulz wrote:

Basil,

On Saturday 28 May 2005 06:44, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

...

Why don't people try Xandros Deluxe v3.0? Installs like a dream, recognises all the hardware, automatically resizes Windows partitions during installation, the sound works from the start, installs during the installation process the nVidia driver without all the crap about proprietary s/ware, and it even runs some M$ software like Photoshop and Office because it comes with CrossOver Office. Oh, and when you turn off the Screensaver it actually turns off and stays off.

And already behind the times: Kernel 2.6.9, KDE 3.3, OO.o 1.1, X.org 6.7, Java 1.4.2, CrossOver Office 4.1 (which is a 30-day trial only). Limited s/w: Reiser and Ext3 only, e.g. But what would we expect: "Based on Debian..."

I'e got the 3.02 community release on my HD, nice, but no internet, install the 2.0 community version, nice, and internet.

See http://www.xandros.com/products/home/desktopsurf/dsk_surf_details.html.

Generally speaking, there's no reason to think this distribution is any more impervious to things breaking (the screen saver, e.g.) as an individual user starts modifying and extending the configuration. And for what it's worth, I've not had any problem controlling my screen saver.

Xandros warns you that if you use .deb packages from elsewhere it cannot probably handle any updates for them.

This distribution may be a good choice for some users, but probably not for those of us for whom SuSE is a good choice.

Agreed, Ubuntu 5.04 hoary hedgehog is head and shoulders better than Xandros In My Opinion!!!. Neither of them have YaST which I must admit has me spoiled rotten.

...

Personally I think this is the future desktop OS to replace M$, but what do I know.

Only you know what you know.

It needs a lot of work to get there, but this may be the difference between their box version capabilities and their download (bit-torrent only) version.

it clown wrote:

to me it seems asif suse is always first to add new things to their distro. Why dont they first sort out all the little bugs for example: cd drive problems, wvdial and more than one network card will swop ip's. Maybe all these and more have been fixed in 9.3 seeing i am using 9.1. I like suse but it always seems asif there are small basic things that do not work as it should.

I'm on 9.3 and I haven't seen any CD drive problems either in new installs or upgrade of my x86_64 laptop. Wvdial on the x86_64 has worked right through from 9.2 to 9.3, I was surprised to see that it picked up my config which I must have done some time previously and not tested. By one or more network cards, I presume you mean ethernet bonding, looks simple from http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/hints/downloads/files/ethernet-bonding.txt, but I haven't yet tried it, I may have a go later as I have 3 boxen each with a spare ethernet connected to a second hub, but not bonded. I'm running 4 9.3 boxes including 1 x86_64 laptop and a P-II/333 laptop with 64M memory and 2M video using fvwm, 1 gentoo, 1 Mandrake 10.1 with SCSI and DVB-T card, 1 Mandriva LE2005 box, 1 BBIagent Linux box k6-II/333 128M as firewall to a cable modem (Astaro Secure Linux there as backup), plus one UltraSPARC 5 with the latest Solaris 10 installed and under KDE which I was surprised to see included, it's the same look and feel as my Linux boxen, they've included many GNU apps (including df, so "df -h" works) except for locate and recursive grep etc. and findutils from www.solarisfreeware.com, file says it's a package, but pkgadd doesn't recogise it, then again Sun has to retain a certain amount of same old hat stuff to let people know it's Solaris. All round SuSE has done a great job as has the other distros I use and I could use any of them in any environment. For many years I've used SuSE on the work's laptop to do everything, X3270 to talk to mainframes, xdmcp to admin large Solaris-based Sun/Fujitsu servers, give powerpoint presentations, run Lotus Notes mail, Citrix Linux client and use my home network to connect into work with the Cisco VPN Linux client and on the road, using a free ISP to dial-in to work using Cisco VPN. I've shown colleagues that I can do everything they can with Windows and more, just more securely, robust and versatile - all at a fraction of the cost as my SuSE distro is legal however many boxen it's installed on. Linux has been doing the job well on the desktop/laptop for years, I long ago cleaned Windows out of this house, even at my daughter's house they use SuSE 9.1 and recently she bought a new 17" LCD screen to replace the monitor - no problem, most time was spent getting it out of the box. Of course, I'd point any other occasional user at Linspire or Xandros if they weren't quite local to me. Regards Sid. <STUFF DELETED> -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Keen licensed Private Pilot Retired IBM Mainframes and Sun Servers Tech Support Specialist Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux for all Computing Tasks

On Sun, 2005-05-29 at 04:21, it clown wrote:

On Sat, 28 May 2005 23:57:53 -0400 Mike McMullin wrote:

{snip} (Speaking of Xandros)

...

It needs a lot of work to get there, but this may be the difference > between their box version capabilities and their download (bit-torrent only) version.

to me it seems asif suse is always first to add new things to their distro. Why dont they first sort out all the little bugs for example: cd drive problems, wvdial and more than one network card will swop ip's. Maybe all these and more have been fixed in 9.3 seeing i am using 9.1. I like suse but it always seems asif there are small basic things that do not work as it should.

I'm running 9.1 here, I don't have any cd drive problems, wvdial when I use it instead of dsl works ok. I did have intermittent NIC problems on 2 of the 5 systems running 9.1 (one is now 9.3). I'm not too sure that 9.3 is going to be a good upgrade, but I've ordered it anyhow. I'll know when I go there whole hog. I've been using SuSE since 7.1 personal, and every update has always had more good in it than bad. I can't say that about Windows: Dos-95, fabulous, I hated 3.xx; 95-98, good but then it had to be MS-Dos and no other for the boot to DOS option to work; 98-ME, I won't be buying another version of Windows if I can help it at all. My son's laptop provided by his school with XP_Pro on it, doesn't impress me. At work I've used NT4, 2k, and XP-Pro, I'm not impressed by them from a user point of view. XP-Pro will trash the passwords, and seems to have deleted my account because I don't use it often enough. IIRC ME did this on occasion with some programs.

On Sunday 29 May 2005 19:37, Janne Karhunen wrote:

No. They can do better by getting things right with 10.0. Things definitely don't get better by experienced users being quiet about existing problems.

Oh, that reminds me of the feedback form. Do they actually listen to that anymore? Haven't had any answers from there since Novell took charge.

There is an open bugzilla now. bugzilla.novell.com. Feel free to use it

They are supposed to have more experienced support staff available now, but it surely looks like the exact opposite.

How so?

Same goes for documentation. They surely don't bother to make it easily available anymore.

The web site is being heavily reworked to incorporate all the suse.com content. This will take a while. But even so, right now all knowledge base articles are searchable.

On Sun, 2005-05-29 at 19:45 +0200, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

Oh, that reminds me of the feedback form. Do they actually listen to that anymore? Haven't had any answers from there since Novell took charge.

There is an open bugzilla now. bugzilla.novell.com. Feel free to use it

Just went ot the site to report a kernel oops and I don't see 9.3 pro as a system to report on. Any ideas? -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge