[opensuse] Seriously thinking to switch to LinuxMint 15
Hi, Sad to write this but I'm seriously thinking to migrate my openSUSE system toward Linux Mint 15. I installed Mint 15 as VirtualBox guest and it looks really superb with very crisp desktop and fonts and furthermore is working flawlessly! On the contrary I installed openSUSE 13.1 RC1 as well as VirtualBox guest but are still present some problems with Bluetooth and with Screen identification despite I installed Guest Additions. Ok RC1 is not the final version but sincerely I was expecting a better behaviour by openSUSE! Please tell me that I am wrong. Regards, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-desktop Gnome 3.8.3 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/21/2013 12:20 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Please tell me that I am wrong.
Why would we talk you out of doing what you want to do? The fair comparison would have been 12.3, with the KDE updates, but its entirely up to you. -- Explain again the part about rm -rf / -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 21/10/2013 17:27, John Andersen ha scritto:
On 10/21/2013 12:20 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Please tell me that I am wrong.
Why would we talk you out of doing what you want to do?
The fair comparison would have been 12.3, with the KDE updates, but its entirely up to you.
Because I use openSUSE since several years and I would like to stay with it. The Bluetooth issue (I cannot send file toward Linux just from Linux to outside despite I enabled file sharing) I was mentioning, is present also into 12.3/KDE which I have as main system (not Virtual). On LinuxMint15 Bluetooth works as it should! Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-desktop Gnome 3.8.3 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hi,
On the contrary I installed openSUSE 13.1 RC1 as well as VirtualBox guest but are still present some problems with Bluetooth If it is KDE, that is known, and will be resolved if not with final, then via
On Monday 21 of October 2013 17:20:40 Marco Calistri wrote: post release updates.
and with Screen identification despite I installed Guest Additions. Which kind of issues?
Ok RC1 is not the final version but sincerely I was expecting a better behaviour by openSUSE!
Please tell me that I am wrong.
You are wrong ;-)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Il 21/10/2013 17:29, šumski ha scritto:
On Monday 21 of October 2013 17:20:40 Marco Calistri wrote:
Hi,
On the contrary I installed openSUSE 13.1 RC1 as well as VirtualBox guest but are still present some problems with Bluetooth If it is KDE, that is known, and will be resolved if not with final, then via post release updates.
and with Screen identification despite I installed Guest Additions. Which kind of issues?
Cannot boot in 13.1 if when I selected Gnome, then I had to install LXDM Screen is not recognized (VirtualBox driver) Bluetooth is not working at all (VirtualBox driver)
Ok RC1 is not the final version but sincerely I was expecting a better behaviour by openSUSE!
Please tell me that I am wrong.
You are wrong ;-)
:-) - -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-desktop Gnome 3.8.3 Intel® Core? i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlJlhQkACgkQi4zJuA3lyFfxvACgjZObsmCidS8cxyp8SSD6fgkO 4sEAn0X+lDzfaLnb2KURd1acb9mbWtAx =TjHP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 21/10/13 16:48, Marco Calistri escribió:
Bluetooth is not working at all (VirtualBox driver)
Again, this is a known problem that everybody is aware of, will be fixed in the final release and/or via maintenance updates. "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 21/10/2013 18:34, Cristian Rodríguez ha scritto:
El 21/10/13 16:48, Marco Calistri escribió:
Bluetooth is not working at all (VirtualBox driver)
Again, this is a known problem that everybody is aware of, will be fixed in the final release and/or via maintenance updates.
"If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra
Well, I am patient enough to wait for final release be available, to check again before undertake the decision. Thanks. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-desktop Gnome 3.8.3 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Marco Calistri <marco.calistri@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
Il 21/10/2013 18:34, Cristian Rodríguez ha scritto:
El 21/10/13 16:48, Marco Calistri escribió:
Bluetooth is not working at all (VirtualBox driver)
Again, this is a known problem that everybody is aware of, will be fixed in the final release and/or via maintenance updates.
"If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra
Well,
I am patient enough to wait for final release be available, to check again before undertake the decision.
The reason 13.1 is semi-broken is Gnome & KDE share the bluetooth software stack and Gnome made the jump months ago, but KDE is just getting it done. openSUSE 13.1 either had to ship with a old Gnome bluetooth stack or a barely released KDE bluetooth stack. They decided on the barely released KDE stack. For that reason it is "hoped" that bluetooth will be solid in 13.1 General Release, but if not, updates will be pushed through maintenance as quickly as they are available. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 21/10/2013 22:04, Greg Freemyer ha scritto:
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Marco Calistri <marco.calistri@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
Il 21/10/2013 18:34, Cristian Rodríguez ha scritto:
El 21/10/13 16:48, Marco Calistri escribió:
Bluetooth is not working at all (VirtualBox driver)
Again, this is a known problem that everybody is aware of, will be fixed in the final release and/or via maintenance updates.
"If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra
Well,
I am patient enough to wait for final release be available, to check again before undertake the decision.
The reason 13.1 is semi-broken is Gnome & KDE share the bluetooth software stack and Gnome made the jump months ago, but KDE is just getting it done.
openSUSE 13.1 either had to ship with a old Gnome bluetooth stack or a barely released KDE bluetooth stack. They decided on the barely released KDE stack. For that reason it is "hoped" that bluetooth will be solid in 13.1 General Release, but if not, updates will be pushed through maintenance as quickly as they are available.
Greg
Hello Greg, Thanks for your reply. Another point of my general unsastisfaction is related to power-management for laptop. I don't know if it is a specific local issue faced on my lenovo Z470 or not, but current power management provided by Gnome or KDE (acoustic-alarm, screen notification, hibernation etc.) is still very limited and bad working on openSUSE. Then as soon as 13.1 final will be available, I wish to check if this part has been improved or not. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-desktop Gnome 3.8.3 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/22/2013 11:55 AM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Another point of my general unsastisfaction is related to power-management for laptop.
You know, this kind of stuff is all managed by the Linux Kernel. It has nothing to do with which Distro you are using. You seem to be laboring under the false impression that there is significant differences in deep system internals based on which distribution of Linux you are running. That is simply not the case. This is not a Ford VS Chevy situation. Its Milk in Plastic Bottles vs Milk in Paper cartons. If anything LinuxMint is behind the curve on almost everything they package, as reading the specs would tell you. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 22/10/2013 17:33, John Andersen ha scritto:
On 10/22/2013 11:55 AM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Another point of my general unsastisfaction is related to power-management for laptop.
You know, this kind of stuff is all managed by the Linux Kernel. It has nothing to do with which Distro you are using.
You seem to be laboring under the false impression that there is significant differences in deep system internals based on which distribution of Linux you are running.
That is simply not the case. This is not a Ford VS Chevy situation. Its Milk in Plastic Bottles vs Milk in Paper cartons.
If anything LinuxMint is behind the curve on almost everything they package, as reading the specs would tell you.
Hi John, I am pretty curious to repeat the power-management tests on Mint-15. I agree with you about the comparisons, but probably kernel selected in Mint is compliant with the features I expect regarding power management when using laptop battery powered. If not, then it means that Linux is still a "server tailored O.S." and in this case I am sorry to have just a M$ Windows alternative to get this feature working. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-desktop Gnome 3.8.3 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 22/10/13 20:08, Marco Calistri wrote:
Il 22/10/2013 17:33, John Andersen ha scritto:
On 10/22/2013 11:55 AM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Another point of my general unsastisfaction is related to power-management for laptop. You know, this kind of stuff is all managed by the Linux Kernel. It has nothing to do with which Distro you are using.
You seem to be laboring under the false impression that there is significant differences in deep system internals based on which distribution of Linux you are running.
That is simply not the case. This is not a Ford VS Chevy situation. Its Milk in Plastic Bottles vs Milk in Paper cartons.
If anything LinuxMint is behind the curve on almost everything they package, as reading the specs would tell you.
Hi John,
I am pretty curious to repeat the power-management tests on Mint-15. I agree with you about the comparisons, but probably kernel selected in Mint is compliant with the features I expect regarding power management when using laptop battery powered.
If not, then it means that Linux is still a "server tailored O.S." and in this case I am sorry to have just a M$ Windows alternative to get this feature working.
Cheers,
You have a choice of 6 kernels in openSUSE -(?)5 more than elsewhere. Where do you find them? In YaST Software Management. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.11.2 & kernel 3.11.6-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 OC 2GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 23/10/2013 01:29, Basil Chupin ha scritto:
On 22/10/13 20:08, Marco Calistri wrote:
Il 22/10/2013 17:33, John Andersen ha scritto:
On 10/22/2013 11:55 AM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Another point of my general unsastisfaction is related to power-management for laptop. You know, this kind of stuff is all managed by the Linux Kernel. It has nothing to do with which Distro you are using.
You seem to be laboring under the false impression that there is significant differences in deep system internals based on which distribution of Linux you are running.
That is simply not the case. This is not a Ford VS Chevy situation. Its Milk in Plastic Bottles vs Milk in Paper cartons.
If anything LinuxMint is behind the curve on almost everything they package, as reading the specs would tell you.
Hi John,
I am pretty curious to repeat the power-management tests on Mint-15. I agree with you about the comparisons, but probably kernel selected in Mint is compliant with the features I expect regarding power management when using laptop battery powered.
If not, then it means that Linux is still a "server tailored O.S." and in this case I am sorry to have just a M$ Windows alternative to get this feature working.
Cheers,
You have a choice of 6 kernels in openSUSE -(?)5 more than elsewhere.
Where do you find them? In YaST Software Management.
BC
Hi Basil, Do you know if any of these 6 kernels provide a real working power-management and Bluetooth stack to be used with a laptop? Thanks. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-desktop Gnome 3.8.3 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 23/10/13 12:37, Marco Calistri wrote:
Il 23/10/2013 01:29, Basil Chupin ha scritto:
On 22/10/13 20:08, Marco Calistri wrote:
Il 22/10/2013 17:33, John Andersen ha scritto:
On 10/22/2013 11:55 AM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Another point of my general unsastisfaction is related to power-management for laptop. You know, this kind of stuff is all managed by the Linux Kernel. It has nothing to do with which Distro you are using.
You seem to be laboring under the false impression that there is significant differences in deep system internals based on which distribution of Linux you are running.
That is simply not the case. This is not a Ford VS Chevy situation. Its Milk in Plastic Bottles vs Milk in Paper cartons.
If anything LinuxMint is behind the curve on almost everything they package, as reading the specs would tell you.
Hi John,
I am pretty curious to repeat the power-management tests on Mint-15. I agree with you about the comparisons, but probably kernel selected in Mint is compliant with the features I expect regarding power management when using laptop battery powered.
If not, then it means that Linux is still a "server tailored O.S." and in this case I am sorry to have just a M$ Windows alternative to get this feature working.
Cheers, You have a choice of 6 kernels in openSUSE -(?)5 more than elsewhere.
Where do you find them? In YaST Software Management.
BC
Hi Basil,
Do you know if any of these 6 kernels provide a real working power-management and Bluetooth stack to be used with a laptop?
Thanks.
Cheers,
No, I don't but someone here must or will know. I have desktop computers so the kernels I install are kernel-desktop. But for a laptop perhaps another kernel is more suited ((?) kernel-default?) which is why I mentioned that there are 6 versions of the kernel available - including one called kernel-vanilla. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.11.2 & kernel 3.11.6-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 OC 2GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 23/10/2013 11:57, Basil Chupin ha scritto:
On 23/10/13 12:37, Marco Calistri wrote:
Il 23/10/2013 01:29, Basil Chupin ha scritto:
On 22/10/13 20:08, Marco Calistri wrote:
Il 22/10/2013 17:33, John Andersen ha scritto:
On 10/22/2013 11:55 AM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Another point of my general unsastisfaction is related to power-management for laptop. You know, this kind of stuff is all managed by the Linux Kernel. It has nothing to do with which Distro you are using.
You seem to be laboring under the false impression that there is significant differences in deep system internals based on which distribution of Linux you are running.
That is simply not the case. This is not a Ford VS Chevy situation. Its Milk in Plastic Bottles vs Milk in Paper cartons.
If anything LinuxMint is behind the curve on almost everything they package, as reading the specs would tell you.
Hi John,
I am pretty curious to repeat the power-management tests on Mint-15. I agree with you about the comparisons, but probably kernel selected in Mint is compliant with the features I expect regarding power management when using laptop battery powered.
If not, then it means that Linux is still a "server tailored O.S." and in this case I am sorry to have just a M$ Windows alternative to get this feature working.
Cheers, You have a choice of 6 kernels in openSUSE -(?)5 more than elsewhere.
Where do you find them? In YaST Software Management.
BC
Hi Basil,
Do you know if any of these 6 kernels provide a real working power-management and Bluetooth stack to be used with a laptop?
Thanks.
Cheers,
No, I don't but someone here must or will know.
I have desktop computers so the kernels I install are kernel-desktop. But for a laptop perhaps another kernel is more suited ((?) kernel-default?) which is why I mentioned that there are 6 versions of the kernel available - including one called kernel-vanilla.
BC
Fine Basil, Also I am using kernel-desktop which possibly is not tailored for laptop best usage. It would be nice to find a "kernel-laptop" version and that for this everything needed for a better usability were enabled and correctly working. I could give a try on my 13.1 RC1 guest machine to replace kernel to see if something changes. Thanks. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-desktop Gnome 3.8.3 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/23/2013 12:51 PM, Marco Calistri pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Il 23/10/2013 11:57, Basil Chupin ha scritto:
On 23/10/13 12:37, Marco Calistri wrote:
No, I don't but someone here must or will know.
I have desktop computers so the kernels I install are kernel-desktop. But for a laptop perhaps another kernel is more suited ((?) kernel-default?) which is why I mentioned that there are 6 versions of the kernel available - including one called kernel-vanilla.
BC
Fine Basil,
Also I am using kernel-desktop which possibly is not tailored for laptop best usage.
It would be nice to find a "kernel-laptop" version and that for this everything needed for a better usability were enabled and correctly working.
I could give a try on my 13.1 RC1 guest machine to replace kernel to see if something changes.
Thanks.
Cheers,
I'm using kernel-default on my laptop and power management works with my settings. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 19:30:04 -0400 Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote: <snipped>
I'm using kernel-default on my laptop and power management works with my settings.
+1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 23/10/2013 21:30, Ken Schneider - openSUSE ha scritto:
On 10/23/2013 12:51 PM, Marco Calistri pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Il 23/10/2013 11:57, Basil Chupin ha scritto:
On 23/10/13 12:37, Marco Calistri wrote:
No, I don't but someone here must or will know.
I have desktop computers so the kernels I install are kernel-desktop. But for a laptop perhaps another kernel is more suited ((?) kernel-default?) which is why I mentioned that there are 6 versions of the kernel available - including one called kernel-vanilla.
BC
Fine Basil,
Also I am using kernel-desktop which possibly is not tailored for laptop best usage.
It would be nice to find a "kernel-laptop" version and that for this everything needed for a better usability were enabled and correctly working.
I could give a try on my 13.1 RC1 guest machine to replace kernel to see if something changes.
Thanks.
Cheers,
I'm using kernel-default on my laptop and power management works with my settings.
Hi, You mean that you get screen and or acoustic warnings when battery enters in critical charge? Your laptop goes into hibernate then resume correctly? Which laptop are your using? Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-desktop Gnome 3.8.3 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/24/2013 11:41 AM, Marco Calistri pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Il 23/10/2013 21:30, Ken Schneider - openSUSE ha scritto:
On 10/23/2013 12:51 PM, Marco Calistri pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Il 23/10/2013 11:57, Basil Chupin ha scritto:
On 23/10/13 12:37, Marco Calistri wrote:
No, I don't but someone here must or will know.
I have desktop computers so the kernels I install are kernel-desktop. But for a laptop perhaps another kernel is more suited ((?) kernel-default?) which is why I mentioned that there are 6 versions of the kernel available - including one called kernel-vanilla.
BC
Fine Basil,
Also I am using kernel-desktop which possibly is not tailored for laptop best usage.
It would be nice to find a "kernel-laptop" version and that for this everything needed for a better usability were enabled and correctly working.
I could give a try on my 13.1 RC1 guest machine to replace kernel to see if something changes.
Thanks.
Cheers,
I'm using kernel-default on my laptop and power management works with my settings.
Hi,
You mean that you get screen and or acoustic warnings when battery enters in critical charge?
Yes.
Your laptop goes into hibernate then resume correctly?
Yes.
Which laptop are your using?
HP dv9925nr Also I'm using openSUSE 12.2 but have had the same functionality across many versions.
Cheers,
-- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 24/10/2013 14:22, Ken Schneider - openSUSE ha scritto:
On 10/24/2013 11:41 AM, Marco Calistri pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Il 23/10/2013 21:30, Ken Schneider - openSUSE ha scritto:
On 10/23/2013 12:51 PM, Marco Calistri pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Il 23/10/2013 11:57, Basil Chupin ha scritto:
On 23/10/13 12:37, Marco Calistri wrote:
No, I don't but someone here must or will know.
I have desktop computers so the kernels I install are kernel-desktop. But for a laptop perhaps another kernel is more suited ((?) kernel-default?) which is why I mentioned that there are 6 versions of the kernel available - including one called kernel-vanilla.
BC
Fine Basil,
Also I am using kernel-desktop which possibly is not tailored for laptop best usage.
It would be nice to find a "kernel-laptop" version and that for this everything needed for a better usability were enabled and correctly working.
I could give a try on my 13.1 RC1 guest machine to replace kernel to see if something changes.
Thanks.
Cheers,
I'm using kernel-default on my laptop and power management works with my settings.
Hi,
You mean that you get screen and or acoustic warnings when battery enters in critical charge?
Yes.
Your laptop goes into hibernate then resume correctly?
Yes.
Which laptop are your using?
HP dv9925nr
Also I'm using openSUSE 12.2 but have had the same functionality across many versions.
Cheers,
Ok, then could be my hardware... Or evene BIOS... Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-desktop Gnome 3.8.3 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 10:06:22 -0200 Marco Calistri <marco.calistri@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
Or evene BIOS...
That happens too, but if you skip bug report that will not be corrected for you, nor for anyone using the same model. So you have opportunity to be guinea pig for greater good :) (I never refused to test something that can help many people.) Check with kernel-default first. Independent of result you should file bug report: If kernel-default works, then they have to fix either kernel-desktop, or application that doesn't work with that kernel. If it doesn't, and Ken has no problems with the same, then it is nice opportunity for kernel guys to include correction for your laptop BIOS. They call that quirks for buggy BIOSes :) Although, you should look first at your laptop manufacturer web site, is there any updates to your BIOS. -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 27/10/2013 03:49, Rajko ha scritto:
On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 10:06:22 -0200 Marco Calistri <marco.calistri@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
Or evene BIOS...
That happens too, but if you skip bug report that will not be corrected for you, nor for anyone using the same model. So you have opportunity to be guinea pig for greater good :) (I never refused to test something that can help many people.)
Check with kernel-default first. Independent of result you should file bug report:
If kernel-default works, then they have to fix either kernel-desktop, or application that doesn't work with that kernel.
If it doesn't, and Ken has no problems with the same, then it is nice opportunity for kernel guys to include correction for your laptop BIOS. They call that quirks for buggy BIOSes :)
Although, you should look first at your laptop manufacturer web site, is there any updates to your BIOS.
Hi Rajko, My BIOS is the latest available for my Lenovo Z470. By reading dmesg I extracted some parts which may be I should try to dig in: [ 0.064056] smpboot: CPU0: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz (fam: 06, model: 2a, stepping: 07) [ 0.168282] Performance Events: PEBS fmt1+, 16-deep LBR, SandyBridge events, Intel PMU driver. [ 0.168287] perf_event_intel: PEBS disabled due to CPU errata, please upgrade microcode [ 0.221798] [Firmware Bug]: ACPI: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored [ 1.085734] PM: Checking hibernation image partition /dev/disk/by-id/ata-SAMSUNG_HM501II_S2PMJ56B607218-part7 [ 4.697197] usb 2-1.6: Product: Broadcom Bluetooth 2.1 Device [ 4.697199] usb 2-1.6: Manufacturer: Broadcom Corp [ 4.697200] usb 2-1.6: SerialNumber: EC55F9D38D0F [ 11.256984] ACPI Warning: 0x0000000000001880-0x000000000000189f SystemIO conflicts with Region \_SB_.PCI0.SBUS.SMBI 1 (20120913/utaddress-251) [ 11.256992] ACPI: If an ACPI driver is available for this device, you should use it instead of the native driver [ 11.415878] ACPI: Deprecated procfs I/F for battery is loaded, please retry with CONFIG_ACPI_PROCFS_POWER cleared [ 11.418550] ACPI Warning: 0x0000000000000428-0x000000000000042f SystemIO conflicts with Region \PMIO 1 (20120913/utaddress-251) [ 11.418559] ACPI: If an ACPI driver is available for this device, you should use it instead of the native driver [ 11.418564] ACPI Warning: 0x0000000000000540-0x000000000000054f SystemIO conflicts with Region \GPIO 1 (20120913/utaddress-251) [ 11.418568] ACPI: If an ACPI driver is available for this device, you should use it instead of the native driver [ 11.418570] ACPI Warning: 0x0000000000000530-0x000000000000053f SystemIO conflicts with Region \GPIO 1 (20120913/utaddress-251) [ 11.418574] ACPI: If an ACPI driver is available for this device, you should use it instead of the native driver [ 11.418576] ACPI Warning: 0x0000000000000500-0x000000000000052f SystemIO conflicts with Region \GPIO 1 (20120913/utaddress-251) [ 11.418579] ACPI: If an ACPI driver is available for this device, you should use it instead of the native driver [ 11.418581] lpc_ich: Resource conflict(s) found affecting gpio_ich In particular I am looking to [Firmware Bug] and [ACPI Warnings] but so far I've not idea if I could apply some workaround simply by adding specific lines at kernel boot as: CONFIG_ACPI_PROCFS_POWER cleared (??) What's this means? Your critics are right about my lack of bug reporting, the fact is that it is easier to post in the List and more and more I have not predisposition to login in bugzilla (apologies!!). Beside power-management also Bluetooth is buggy because I can only send a file from Linux to remote device and not vice-versa. Funny that running two different guest machine from this buggy openSUSE I can send/receive over Bluetooth perfectly. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-default Gnome 3.8.4 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 11:55:20 -0200 Marco Calistri <marco.calistri@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
... My BIOS is the latest available for my Lenovo Z470.
By reading dmesg I extracted some parts which may be I should try to dig in: ... [ 0.221798] [Firmware Bug]: ACPI: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored
This you can try to cure with kernel boot parameter: acpi_osi=Linux this will tell kernel not to pretend it is Windows, which was done in the past to prevent BIOS to disable, or configure in a wrong way, devices and their functionality, because it has wrong presumption what Linux can, and can't do.
... Your critics are right about my lack of bug reporting, the fact is that it is easier to post in the List and more and more I have not predisposition to login in bugzilla (apologies!!).
I have good experience with SUSE kernel guys. They are fast and furious :)
Beside power-management also Bluetooth is buggy because I can only send a file from Linux to remote device and not vice-versa.
You should describe exactly what you do. When you tell that you can send file from Linux to remote, I assume that you use openSUSE box to upload file to remote. The vice versa is not clear. Do you use again openSUSE box to download file from remote, or you are trying to upload file from remote device to the openSUSE box. This can be two different problems, which may be important to guys that know bluetooth and try to help you. I don't use bluetooth to communicate between computers, so I did not have to learn much about it.
Funny that running two different guest machine from this buggy openSUSE I can send/receive over Bluetooth perfectly.
This tells that bluetooth works fine at the kernel level, but GUI has a trouble to deal with it.
Cheers,
-- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 27/10/2013 14:24, Rajko ha scritto:
On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 11:55:20 -0200 Marco Calistri <marco.calistri@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
... My BIOS is the latest available for my Lenovo Z470.
By reading dmesg I extracted some parts which may be I should try to dig in: ... [ 0.221798] [Firmware Bug]: ACPI: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored
This you can try to cure with kernel boot parameter: acpi_osi=Linux
this will tell kernel not to pretend it is Windows, which was done in the past to prevent BIOS to disable, or configure in a wrong way, devices and their functionality, because it has wrong presumption what Linux can, and can't do.
Done! And also I added this line: pcie_aspm=force
Your critics are right about my lack of bug reporting, the fact is that it is easier to post in the List and more and more I have not predisposition to login in bugzilla (apologies!!).
I have good experience with SUSE kernel guys. They are fast and furious :)
Beside power-management also Bluetooth is buggy because I can only send a file from Linux to remote device and not vice-versa.
You should describe exactly what you do. When you tell that you can send file from Linux to remote, I assume that you use openSUSE box to upload file to remote. The vice versa is not clear. Do you use again openSUSE box to download file from remote, or you are trying to upload file from remote device to the openSUSE box.
Remote device is my Nokia Lumia 710 (Windows Phone 7.8 smartphone). If I try to send a file from it toward openSUSE it fails all the times, despite all is paired and sharing enabled.
This can be two different problems, which may be important to guys that know bluetooth and try to help you.
I don't use bluetooth to communicate between computers, so I did not have to learn much about it.
I use Bluetooth rarely but when I use, I expect that works!
Funny that running two different guest machine from this buggy openSUSE I can send/receive over Bluetooth perfectly.
This tells that bluetooth works fine at the kernel level, but GUI has a trouble to deal with it.
I think that the kernel side which is working is the kernel of guests O.S. (Ubuntu and Linux Mint) not the kernel of the host itself (openSUSE 12.3) then this kernel has a buggy Bluetooth stack or even a wrong policy configuration I don't know, I just see that doesn't works. Regards, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-default Gnome 3.8.4 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/27/2013 3:20 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Remote device is my Nokia Lumia 710 (Windows Phone 7.8 smartphone). If I try to send a file from it toward openSUSE it fails all the times, despite all is paired and sharing enabled.
This can be two different problems, which may be important to guys that know bluetooth and try to help you.
I don't have a windows phone to test with, but perhaps you should test with something else before laying the blame on Opensuse. I routinely send photos to my Opensuse 12.3 with my Android phones. It always works. I've also sent from my Android tablet. No problem. I've also sent with my Windows 8.1 Surface Pro, but with windows I have to remember to uncheck the Authentication Checkbox, because windows has an additional (non standard) authentication layer on top of pairing. In KDE Configure Bluetooth, under the details of each paired device there is a TRUST check box. Without that checked, you have to authorize each transmission. I don't find any evidence of a buggy bluetooth stack. It might not support ALL available bluetooth profiles, but file transfer is absolute supported. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 27/10/2013 20:31, John Andersen ha scritto:
On 10/27/2013 3:20 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Remote device is my Nokia Lumia 710 (Windows Phone 7.8 smartphone). If I try to send a file from it toward openSUSE it fails all the times, despite all is paired and sharing enabled.
This can be two different problems, which may be important to guys that know bluetooth and try to help you.
I don't have a windows phone to test with, but perhaps you should test with something else before laying the blame on Opensuse.
I routinely send photos to my Opensuse 12.3 with my Android phones. It always works. I've also sent from my Android tablet. No problem.
I've also sent with my Windows 8.1 Surface Pro, but with windows I have to remember to uncheck the Authentication Checkbox, because windows has an additional (non standard) authentication layer on top of pairing.
In KDE Configure Bluetooth, under the details of each paired device there is a TRUST check box. Without that checked, you have to authorize each transmission.
I don't find any evidence of a buggy bluetooth stack. It might not support ALL available bluetooth profiles, but file transfer is absolute supported.
As I wrote I can send perfectly over Bluetooth toward the same Linux box where 12.3 is running as main O.S. but using different guest O.S. running as virtual-machines. May be I have something buggy here, if it is not the kernel it is something else. Permission, sharing and all the others Bluetooth settings are ok. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-default Gnome 3.8.4 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/27/2013 05:23 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:
As I wrote I can send perfectly over Bluetooth toward the same Linux box where 12.3 is running as main O.S. but using different guest O.S. running as virtual-machines.
Somebody has to own the bluetooth. Its going to be the host os or the guest os. If it works sending files to the host os via bluetooth on Opensuse 12.3 then Opensuse is doing its job and there is no problem. If that doesn't work on a guest os you have a problem with how your VM software handles shared devices. Its a question for what ever list deals with that Virtual Machine software. -- Explain again the part about rm -rf / -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 27/10/2013 23:49, John Andersen ha scritto:
On 10/27/2013 05:23 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:
As I wrote I can send perfectly over Bluetooth toward the same Linux box where 12.3 is running as main O.S. but using different guest O.S. running as virtual-machines.
Somebody has to own the bluetooth. Its going to be the host os or the guest os.
If it works sending files to the host os via bluetooth on Opensuse 12.3 then Opensuse is doing its job and there is no problem.
If that doesn't work on a guest os you have a problem with how your VM software handles shared devices. Its a question for what ever list deals with that Virtual Machine software.
I resolved Bluetooth problem by reverting previous Gnome-3.8 Stable to default. I upgraded Gnome-3.6 to 3.8 some times ago but couldn't suppose that it could broke Bluetooth. Now I roll-backed Gnome to default openSUSE 12.3 version and Bluetooth works perfectly send/receive! Later I will check if also power-management now works as I expect with my laptop. This served me as lesson: to avoid upgrading things before the final official release be ready but also sometimes is good to experiment new things. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-default Gnome 3.6.2 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 28/10/2013 00:31, Marco Calistri ha scritto:
Il 27/10/2013 23:49, John Andersen ha scritto:
On 10/27/2013 05:23 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:
As I wrote I can send perfectly over Bluetooth toward the same Linux box where 12.3 is running as main O.S. but using different guest O.S. running as virtual-machines.
Somebody has to own the bluetooth. Its going to be the host os or the guest os.
If it works sending files to the host os via bluetooth on Opensuse 12.3 then Opensuse is doing its job and there is no problem.
If that doesn't work on a guest os you have a problem with how your VM software handles shared devices. Its a question for what ever list deals with that Virtual Machine software.
I resolved Bluetooth problem by reverting previous Gnome-3.8 Stable to default.
I upgraded Gnome-3.6 to 3.8 some times ago but couldn't suppose that it could broke Bluetooth.
Now I roll-backed Gnome to default openSUSE 12.3 version and Bluetooth works perfectly send/receive!
Later I will check if also power-management now works as I expect with my laptop.
This served me as lesson: to avoid upgrading things before the final official release be ready but also sometimes is good to experiment new things.
Cheers,
Power-management is still not working for my laptop (Lenovo Z470) despite I installed kernel-default and revert back to standard Gnome version 3.6.2. When battery reaches critical level my laptop simply shutdown despite I set to hibernate when critical charge. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-default Gnome 3.6.2 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Marco Calistri <marco.calistri@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
I resolved Bluetooth problem by reverting previous Gnome-3.8 Stable to default.
I upgraded Gnome-3.6 to 3.8 some times ago but couldn't suppose that it could broke Bluetooth.
13.1 will ship with a broken KDE bluetooth, so don't expect it to work for a week or two after release. Greg -- Greg Freemyer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 02/11/2013 12:53, Greg Freemyer ha scritto:
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Marco Calistri <marco.calistri@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
I resolved Bluetooth problem by reverting previous Gnome-3.8 Stable to default.
I upgraded Gnome-3.6 to 3.8 some times ago but couldn't suppose that it could broke Bluetooth.
13.1 will ship with a broken KDE bluetooth, so don't expect it to work for a week or two after release.
Greg -- Greg Freemyer
Hi Greg, Yes, I heard about it, then I will wait a bit before to run the upgrade. But more than Bluetooth I would like to have a working power management instead, in order to manage my Lenovo Z470 laptop correctly. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.2 (Mantis) 64 bit - Kernel 3.4.6-2.10-default Gnome 3.6.2 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/27/2013 05:20 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Il 27/10/2013 14:24, Rajko ha scritto:
On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 11:55:20 -0200 Marco Calistri <marco.calistri@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
... My BIOS is the latest available for my Lenovo Z470.
By reading dmesg I extracted some parts which may be I should try to dig in: ... [ 0.221798] [Firmware Bug]: ACPI: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored This you can try to cure with kernel boot parameter: acpi_osi=Linux
this will tell kernel not to pretend it is Windows, which was done in the past to prevent BIOS to disable, or configure in a wrong way, devices and their functionality, because it has wrong presumption what Linux can, and can't do. Done! And also I added this line: pcie_aspm=force
Your critics are right about my lack of bug reporting, the fact is that it is easier to post in the List and more and more I have not predisposition to login in bugzilla (apologies!!). I have good experience with SUSE kernel guys. They are fast and furious :)
Beside power-management also Bluetooth is buggy because I can only send a file from Linux to remote device and not vice-versa. You should describe exactly what you do. When you tell that you can send file from Linux to remote, I assume that you use openSUSE box to upload file to remote. The vice versa is not clear. Do you use again openSUSE box to download file from remote, or you are trying to upload file from remote device to the openSUSE box. Remote device is my Nokia Lumia 710 (Windows Phone 7.8 smartphone). If I try to send a file from it toward openSUSE it fails all the times, despite all is paired and sharing enabled.
This can be two different problems, which may be important to guys that know bluetooth and try to help you.
I don't use bluetooth to communicate between computers, so I did not have to learn much about it.
I use Bluetooth rarely but when I use, I expect that works!
Funny that running two different guest machine from this buggy openSUSE I can send/receive over Bluetooth perfectly. This tells that bluetooth works fine at the kernel level, but GUI has a trouble to deal with it.
I think that the kernel side which is working is the kernel of guests O.S. (Ubuntu and Linux Mint) not the kernel of the host itself (openSUSE 12.3) then this kernel has a buggy Bluetooth stack or even a wrong policy configuration I don't know, I just see that doesn't works.
Regards,
BUT, you could forgetting that the phone is a "Winbloze" phone - in which case - "Winbloze" - will - not - work will with any LINUX stuff. -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ - Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding (314) 838-5587 / dahechler@att.net / www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com Home & Business user of Linux - 13 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/27/2013 3:42 PM, Duaine Hechler wrote:
BUT, you could forgetting that the phone is a "Winbloze" phone - in which case - "Winbloze" - will - not - work will with any LINUX stuff.
Nice rant, but he has already stated it works with other Linux distros. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 15:45:24 -0700, John Andersen wrote:
On 10/27/2013 3:42 PM, Duaine Hechler wrote:
BUT, you could forgetting that the phone is a "Winbloze" phone - in which case - "Winbloze" - will - not - work will with any LINUX stuff.
Nice rant
Well, that and it's nonsense. "Winbloze" technologies certainly do work with Linux. Probably owing to the fact that Microsoft is now one of the larger corporate contributors to the Linux kernel. So as rants go, it's also not particularly current on the state of interoperability. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 14:51:06 -0200 Marco Calistri <marco.calistri@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
Also I am using kernel-desktop which possibly is not tailored for laptop best usage.
It is. Desktop is meant as in GNOME, or KDE, not type of hardware. It provides better user desktop interactivity. In other words background processes shouldn't slowdown desktop reaction to user input. Try default kernel. You will probably see little or no difference, but time sensitive background processes will have more chance to finish what they do. In case that kernel-default works, it is time to file a bug report. -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 24/10/2013 02:45, Rajko ha scritto:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 14:51:06 -0200 Marco Calistri <marco.calistri@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
Also I am using kernel-desktop which possibly is not tailored for laptop best usage.
It is. Desktop is meant as in GNOME, or KDE, not type of hardware. It provides better user desktop interactivity. In other words background processes shouldn't slowdown desktop reaction to user input.
Try default kernel. You will probably see little or no difference, but time sensitive background processes will have more chance to finish what they do.
In case that kernel-default works, it is time to file a bug report.
Thanks Rajko, I will try kernel-default. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri (amdturion) opensuse 12.3 (Dartmouth) 64 bit - Kernel 3.7.10-1.16-desktop Gnome 3.8.3 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Marco Calistri said the following on 10/21/2013 03:20 PM:
Hi,
Sad to write this but I'm seriously thinking to migrate my openSUSE system toward Linux Mint 15.
Sure. What not, there are a lot of other distributions out there with different edges. What's Mint derived from? I was under the impression it was derived from Ubuntu. Is that still the case? In which case why not go with Ubuntu -- 13.10 is just out. Have you looked at https://kororaproject.org/ That's derived from Fedora, which is a little less conservative than openSuse. You can put that on a USB stick and LiveBoot it onto the 'raw metal'.
I installed Mint 15 as VirtualBox guest and it looks really superb with very crisp desktop and fonts and furthermore is working flawlessly!
Good for you! That's not to say that it will perform the same on some specific 'raw metal' or that something that doesn't perform well virtually won't perform better on 'raw metal'. Nothing new here, we've met this kind of thing before. The USB interface was a classic!
On the contrary I installed openSUSE 13.1 RC1 as well as VirtualBox guest but are still present some problems with Bluetooth and with Screen identification despite I installed Guest Additions.
Ok RC1 is not the final version but sincerely I was expecting a better behaviour by openSUSE!
Please tell me that I am wrong.
You're not wrong for some values of 'Wrong', but neither are you right for some value of 'Right'. -- How long did the whining go on when KDE2 went on KDE3? The only universal constant is change. If a species can not adapt it goes extinct. That's the law of the universe, adapt or die. -- Billie Walsh, May 18 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (12)
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Anton Aylward -
Basil Chupin -
Carl Hartung -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Duaine Hechler -
Greg Freemyer -
Jim Henderson -
John Andersen -
Ken Schneider - openSUSE -
Marco Calistri -
Rajko -
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