I want to use a notebook computer with Windows XP and Linux. I need Windows for Office (including Visio) and Project, while I need for developing and connection to otherLinux systems. What is the best setup for that? Dualboot and vmware? What should I take care when I purchase the notebook? bye Ronald
On Monday 23 May 2005 12:42, Ronald Wiplinger wrote:
I want to use a notebook computer with Windows XP and Linux. I need Windows for Office (including Visio) and Project, while I need for developing and connection to otherLinux systems. What is the best setup for that? Dualboot and vmware?
Well, if you have vmware, you won't need to have dual boot. Just SUSE on all the disk and a vmware virtual machine with windows inside.
On Monday, 23 of May 2005 11:42, Ronald Wiplinger wrote:
I want to use a notebook computer with Windows XP and Linux. I need Windows for Office (including Visio) and Project, while I need for developing and connection to otherLinux systems. What is the best setup for that? Dualboot and vmware?
I use dualboot and codeweaver's wine. To exchange data between xp and linux without any problems I have a 5GB fat partition. note that I do not use visio and project but I have seen both are supported by codeweavers.
What should I take care when I purchase the notebook?
You should find you laptop first, than verify if someone else already installed linux on this model and what are results: http://www.linux-on-laptops.com -- Marek Chlopek
I use SUSE and XP on my laptop, I have a Dell Inspiron 5150, specs are: Lithium Ion Battery (Paid Extra for it) Nvidia GeForce FX GO 5200 (Paid Extra for it) 15 inches 512 RAM 30 GB HD M Pentium 4 3.06GHz DVD-ROM drive Got a free printer with it. Total price: $1,200.00 Not bad for a new laptop with those specs. Works with SUSE out of the box. and I've tested all the way back to 8.2. Slackware and Free BSD don't work on it though for some reason, if you use fdisk topartition you get write errors. Weird. And it's ONLY the console based installations like Slackware and BSD. But SUSE runs great on it, finds all hardware and the sound card works without configuraton and so does th NIC. (I did NOT get wireless, I don't use it, dont want to use it and the only purpose it serves me is wardriving). I think it's a fairly cheap price for all you get, so I'll recommend that or something from IBM. Just don't buy a gateway.
Marek Chlopek wrote:
On Monday, 23 of May 2005 11:42, Ronald Wiplinger wrote:
I want to use a notebook computer with Windows XP and Linux. I need Windows for Office (including Visio) and Project, while I need for developing and connection to otherLinux systems. What is the best setup for that? Dualboot and vmware?
I use dualboot and codeweaver's wine. To exchange data between xp and linux without any problems I have a 5GB fat partition. note that I do not use visio and project but I have seen both are supported by codeweavers.
What should I take care when I purchase the notebook?
You should find you laptop first, than verify if someone else already installed linux on this model and what are results: http://www.linux-on-laptops.com
Different ways of shopping. Though a fine site, I've found that <http://www.linux-on-laptops.com> doesn't always have the latest listings. Newer laptops aren't always included. So instead, when I shop for a laptop (or any kind of linux hardware), I first determine if all the hardware is supported, e.g., the video card, wireless card, network card, modem, etc. The best place to look to determine if some piece of hardware is supported is to look in the documentation that comes with the driver code, typically in the README or Changelog files. You could also google for those hardware items to see if code for linux support has been written and how well that code works. hth, ken -- A lot of us are working harder than we want, at things we don't like to do. Why? ...In order to afford the sort of existence we don't care to live. -- Bradford Angier
Ronald Wiplinger wrote:
I want to use a notebook computer with Windows XP and Linux. I need Windows for Office (including Visio) and Project, while I need for developing and connection to otherLinux systems. What is the best setup for that? Dualboot and vmware?
I have that set up on my ThinkPad. Assuming your notebook came with Windows installed, you'll have to shrink the XP partion to make room for your Linux install. Then install SuSE as usual and it will add XP to the boot menu. Also, create a FAT32 partition, for exchanging data between sides. You can move the "My Documents" folder to that partition. You might also want to install OpenOffice & Mozilla on XP.
James Knott wrote:
Ronald Wiplinger wrote:
I want to use a notebook computer with Windows XP and Linux. I need Windows for Office (including Visio) and Project, while I need for developing and connection to otherLinux systems. What is the best setup for that? Dualboot and vmware?
I have that set up on my ThinkPad. Assuming your notebook came with Windows installed, you'll have to shrink the XP partion to make room for your Linux install. Then install SuSE as usual and it will add XP to the boot menu. Also, create a FAT32 partition, for exchanging data between sides. You can move the "My Documents" folder to that partition. You might also want to install OpenOffice & Mozilla on XP.
Hmmm... if you install, say, Firefox and/or Thunderbird under both Win and Suse, can they be set up to use a single shared inbox/bookmark directory? It *seems* intuitively obvious, but there always seem to be some hidden gotchas.
David McMillan wrote:
James Knott wrote:
Ronald Wiplinger wrote:
I want to use a notebook computer with Windows XP and Linux. I need Windows for Office (including Visio) and Project, while I need for developing and connection to otherLinux systems. What is the best setup for that? Dualboot and vmware?
I have that set up on my ThinkPad. Assuming your notebook came with Windows installed, you'll have to shrink the XP partion to make room for your Linux install. Then install SuSE as usual and it will add XP to the boot menu. Also, create a FAT32 partition, for exchanging data between sides. You can move the "My Documents" folder to that partition. You might also want to install OpenOffice & Mozilla on XP.
Hmmm... if you install, say, Firefox and/or Thunderbird under both Win and Suse, can they be set up to use a single shared inbox/bookmark directory? It *seems* intuitively obvious, but there always seem to be some hidden gotchas.
Yes, you can do that, using symbolic links. The only requirement, is that both versions point to the same locations. This means you'll have to move the XP "Documents and Settings" folder to the FAT32 partition and then create links on the Linux side, to share them. It's tricky, but can be done. A few years ago, I did something similar, between two computers, one running OS/2 and the other Linux.
Ronald, On Monday 23 May 2005 02:42, Ronald Wiplinger wrote:
I want to use a notebook computer with Windows XP and Linux. I need Windows for Office (including Visio) and Project, while I need for developing and connection to otherLinux systems. What is the best setup for that? Dualboot and vmware?
Both are viable options. VMWare costs significant dollars and you'll need roughly twice as much RAM if you want to run a full mix of software concurrently in both environments (unless you're already flush with RAM). If you don't need concurrent operation and if you don't need to switch off frequently between the two OSes, dual boot is probably good enough. Also, VMWare setup and configuration is not for the faint of heart. VMWare will also force you to choose which is the host environment and which is the guest. I think it's better to use a Linux host with Windows as the guest OS (the one that runs in the virtualized environment).
What should I take care when I purchase the notebook?
If you want to run two good operating systems, get a Mac, which will run both Linux and MacOS X.
bye
Ronald
Randall Schulz
Randall R Schulz wrote:
Ronald,
On Monday 23 May 2005 02:42, Ronald Wiplinger wrote:
I want to use a notebook computer with Windows XP and Linux. I need Windows for Office (including Visio) and Project, while I need for developing and connection to otherLinux systems. What is the best setup for that? Dualboot and vmware?
Both are viable options. VMWare costs significant dollars and you'll need roughly twice as much RAM if you want to run a full mix of software concurrently in both environments (unless you're already flush with RAM).
If you don't need concurrent operation and if you don't need to switch off frequently between the two OSes, dual boot is probably good enough. Also, VMWare setup and configuration is not for the faint of heart. VMWare will also force you to choose which is the host environment and which is the guest. I think it's better to use a Linux host with Windows as the guest OS (the one that runs in the virtualized environment).
Very correct about RAM. VMWare runs very slowly without adequate RAM. It is also a long wait to get to your linux apps when running VMWare. I can confirm that both Project and Visio run without a hitch using Codeweavers Crossover Office. I am using version 4.1 for Crossover Office, and Suse 9.2. - James W
On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 06:40:51AM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Ronald,
On Monday 23 May 2005 02:42, Ronald Wiplinger wrote:
I want to use a notebook computer with Windows XP and Linux. I need Windows for Office (including Visio) and Project, while I need for developing and connection to otherLinux systems. What is the best setup for that? Dualboot and vmware?
Both are viable options. VMWare costs significant dollars and you'll need roughly twice as much RAM if you want to run a full mix of software concurrently in both environments (unless you're already flush with RAM).
If you don't need concurrent operation and if you don't need to switch off frequently between the two OSes, dual boot is probably good enough. Also, VMWare setup and configuration is not for the faint of heart. VMWare will also force you to choose which is the host environment and which is the guest. I think it's better to use a Linux host with Windows as the guest OS (the one that runs in the virtualized environment).
What should I take care when I purchase the notebook?
If you want to run two good operating systems, get a Mac, which will run both Linux and MacOS X.
Not starting a fame war here, but for the price of a Mac laptop I could get almost a 1 TB Server. That's my biggest problem with Macs, they are WAY to expensive even though a few of my fellow "Network security Analysis people" say the hardware is very nice.
bye
Ronald
Randall Schulz
-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
Quoting Ronald Wiplinger <ronald@elmit.com>:
I want to use a notebook computer with Windows XP and Linux. I need Windows for Office (including Visio) and Project, while I need for developing and connection to otherLinux systems. What is the best setup for that? Dualboot and vmware?
What should I take care when I purchase the notebook?
bye
Ronald
If you need to run highly interactive programs (i.e. Quake or any action game, a Spanish tutorial with sound and video) under both OSes, dual boot. VMware was very poor with video and sound, is getting better. If you just occasionally need the other OS, VMware or Wine are possibilities. VMware requires lots of memory. Win XP requires at least 128MB of its own, so 256MB is a minimum for VMware, 512MB is better. If you choose dual boot, be sure and shutdown, not suspend to disk, when switching OSes. It seems like it should work, but I ended up with corrupted file systems in both Linux and WinXP. Not every time, but often enough. Reinstalling WinXP and all applications, plus restoring the data from backups is no fun. To fix Linux I only needed to run fschk from a rescue CD. I think there are rescue CDs for Windows, but I don't have one yet. Linux does mount the WinXP partition, but read-only. Windows doesn't see the Linux partitions. IBM Thinkpads are supported in Linux except for the hard disk protection mechanism. I think the finger print read support is non-existant or shaky. Support for the ATI graphics chip is a problem, you can have either 3D acceleration or suspend, but not both. HTH, Jeffrey
On Monday 23 May 2005 2:42 am, Ronald Wiplinger wrote:
I want to use a notebook computer with Windows XP and Linux. I need Windows for Office (including Visio) and Project, while I need for developing and connection to otherLinux systems. What is the best setup for that? Dualboot and vmware?
What should I take care when I purchase the notebook?
I had very similar needs as you. I have found that vmware is not a very good solution for a notebook. I used it for a few months and then stopped using it. While vmware is taxing on memory and CPU, that problem can be solved by buying more memory and/or buying hyper-threaded/dual-core (when they will be available) CPUs. The reason why I stopped using it were many-fold: 1. Suspend-resume is very painfully slow. If you are a road-warrior, then vmware's suspend/resume will make the notebook suspend/resume very slow. This is because you have to suspend the virtual machine before you suspend the physical one and then resume the virtual machine after you resume the physical one. I have found that this takes anywhere from 2 to 3 minutes depending on the size of RAM allocated to virtual machine and the speed of your machine. 2. Clock problems while running on batteries. If I start vmware when my notebook is connected to power supply and then remove the power supply; the CPU frequency drops (as it should). This confuses the virtual machine's clock run really fastl. Unfortunately, there is no fix for this. 3. X memory blow up. I found that X was constantly using more and more memory and became unusable after a few days. I had to restart my X server every 2-3 days. I am using X.org 6.8.2. Once I stopped using Vmware; I have had no problems with X memory blow up. To vmware's credit, it does work well if you are just plugging in your laptop into power supply and do not have to ever suspend/resume your machine. Regarding which laptop to purchase, I would recommend IBM T series laptop (T42, T43 etc.) whole-heartedly. -- Osho
Osho, On Monday 23 May 2005 08:21, Osho GG wrote:
...
The reason why I stopped using it were many-fold:
1. Suspend-resume is very painfully slow. If you are a road-warrior, then vmware's suspend/resume will make the notebook suspend/resume very slow. This is because you have to suspend the virtual machine before you suspend the physical one and then resume the virtual machine after you resume the physical one. I have found that this takes anywhere from 2 to 3 minutes depending on the size of RAM allocated to virtual machine and the speed of your machine.
There are a great many options for how VMWare operates that bear very heavily on perceived performance. I use it in a way that makes it much faster than the default.
2. Clock problems while running on batteries. If I start vmware when my notebook is connected to power supply and then remove the power supply; the CPU frequency drops (as it should). This confuses the virtual machine's clock run really fastl. Unfortunately, there is no fix for this. 3. X memory blow up. I found that X was constantly using more and more memory and became unusable after a few days. I had to restart my X server every 2-3 days. I am using X.org 6.8.2. Once I stopped using Vmware; I have had no problems with X memory blow up.
Keep in mind that version 5 was just released. Since VMWare development is quite active, it's reasonable to hope and expect (but verify, of course) that these issues have been fixed. And VMWare (the company) is responsive, so if you report a problem, there's a good chance they'll produce a fix. Both (2) and (3) sound like an outright bugs. They should be reported.
To vmware's credit, it does work well if you are just plugging in your laptop into power supply and do not have to ever suspend/resume your machine.
There's much to VMWare's credit. It's very impressive software. And no, I have no connection, personal or financial, to this company.
...
-- Osho
Randall Schulz
Randall R Schulz wrote:
Osho,
On Monday 23 May 2005 08:21, Osho GG wrote:
...
The reason why I stopped using it were many-fold:
1. Suspend-resume is very painfully slow. If you are a road-warrior, then vmware's suspend/resume will make the notebook suspend/resume very slow. This is because you have to suspend the virtual machine before you suspend the physical one and then resume the virtual machine after you resume the physical one. I have found that this takes anywhere from 2 to 3 minutes depending on the size of RAM allocated to virtual machine and the speed of your machine.
There are a great many options for how VMWare operates that bear very heavily on perceived performance. I use it in a way that makes it much faster than the default.
Could you please tell in what way you use it Randall ?
2. Clock problems while running on batteries. If I start vmware when my notebook is connected to power supply and then remove the power supply; the CPU frequency drops (as it should). This confuses the virtual machine's clock run really fastl. Unfortunately, there is no fix for this. 3. X memory blow up. I found that X was constantly using more and more memory and became unusable after a few days. I had to restart my X server every 2-3 days. I am using X.org 6.8.2. Once I stopped using Vmware; I have had no problems with X memory blow up.
Keep in mind that version 5 was just released. Since VMWare development is quite active, it's reasonable to hope and expect (but verify, of course) that these issues have been fixed. And VMWare (the company) is responsive, so if you report a problem, there's a good chance they'll produce a fix.
Both (2) and (3) sound like an outright bugs. They should be reported.
To vmware's credit, it does work well if you are just plugging in your laptop into power supply and do not have to ever suspend/resume your machine.
There's much to VMWare's credit. It's very impressive software.
And no, I have no connection, personal or financial, to this company.
...
-- Osho
Randall Schulz
Erik Jakobsen
Erik, On Monday 23 May 2005 08:48, Erik Jakobsen wrote:
Randall R Schulz wrote:
...
There are a great many options for how VMWare operates that bear very heavily on perceived performance. I use it in a way that makes it much faster than the default.
Could you please tell in what way you use it Randall ?
For starters, use physical disks or partitions thereof, not logical disks emulated as files on the host operating system. Disable snapshots and debugging. Don't disable acceleration. By all means install the VMWare tools in the guest OS. They make a huge difference, especially in graphics and mouse handling and general smoothness of operation.
...
Erik Jakobsen
On Monday 23 May 2005 08:54, Osho GG wrote:
...
There are not many (if any) options to control the speed of suspend/resume a virtual machine. I tried everything I was suggested in the vmware 5 forums but there is no way to speed up suspend/resume of virtual machine to a point that I consider usable.
I wouldn't know--I have no particular use for it. But if it takes so long to suspend, why not just shut down? The VMWare BIOS start-up is quite fast. Windows XP's start-up is also far faster than earlier versions. Randall Schulz
On Monday 23 May 2005 8:34 am, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Osho,
On Monday 23 May 2005 08:21, Osho GG wrote:
...
The reason why I stopped using it were many-fold:
1. Suspend-resume is very painfully slow. If you are a road-warrior, then vmware's suspend/resume will make the notebook suspend/resume very slow. This is because you have to suspend the virtual machine before you suspend the physical one and then resume the virtual machine after you resume the physical one. I have found that this takes anywhere from 2 to 3 minutes depending on the size of RAM allocated to virtual machine and the speed of your machine.
There are a great many options for how VMWare operates that bear very heavily on perceived performance. I use it in a way that makes it much faster than the default.
There are not many (if any) options to control the speed of suspend/resume a virtual machine. I tried everything I was suggested in the vmware 5 forums but there is no way to speed up suspend/resume of virtual machine to a point that I consider usable.
2. Clock problems while running on batteries. If I start vmware when my notebook is connected to power supply and then remove the power supply; the CPU frequency drops (as it should). This confuses the virtual machine's clock run really fastl. Unfortunately, there is no fix for this. 3. X memory blow up. I found that X was constantly using more and more memory and became unusable after a few days. I had to restart my X server every 2-3 days. I am using X.org 6.8.2. Once I stopped using Vmware; I have had no problems with X memory blow up.
Keep in mind that version 5 was just released. Since VMWare development is quite active, it's reasonable to hope and expect (but verify, of course) that these issues have been fixed. And VMWare (the company) is responsive, so if you report a problem, there's a good chance they'll produce a fix.
Both (2) and (3) sound like an outright bugs. They should be reported.
I have tried version 5. It still has these problems. I have also asked for help by reporting these bugs on vmware 5 forums about these issues but they have not been fixed.
To vmware's credit, it does work well if you are just plugging in your laptop into power supply and do not have to ever suspend/resume your machine.
There's much to VMWare's credit. It's very impressive software.
It is very impressive indeed. I would say it is definitely a high quality product for desktop users. I wouldn't say the same for notebook users. -- Osho
participants (12)
-
Allen -
David McMillan -
Erik Jakobsen -
James Knott -
James Wright -
Jeffrey L. Taylor -
ken -
Marek Chlopek -
Osho GG -
Randall R Schulz -
Ronald Wiplinger -
Silviu Marin-Caea