[opensuse] Which openSUSE (evergreen/tumbleweed) for home server?
Hi! I've been running openSUSE since S.u.S.E. (I think it was spelled like that) 8.0 both in work as well as home. And I've always had problems in updating the system at home - where I can't just buy a new server every other year. Currently I'm still running 11.3 which has degraded really badly. I've reached EOL with openSUSE previously, but never has the repos disappeared or died like now. So, it's painfully clear that I need to update. First question is, which "version?" I mean, just the regular, some evergreen or tumbleweed? The last 2 ones are strange to me, I don't know them but they sound like they finally have a goal of being around a little longer. I'm not really interested in office software, but server software like samba, printing and mediatomb. I do also run experimental development things there (like node.js + mongoDB/redis) as well as media encoding. Despite updating the servers many times, I still don't know how it should be done. I've always done it somehow differently :-} I have 4 data disks (2 data + 2 backup, no raids) and system running on separate physical disk. How should I do it? A) do clean install on the system disk (and hope nothing happens to the data disks) and loose all settings on samba, mediatomb and all other serversoftware? or B) try some "update" from the installer? While there are many users, I think I'm probably the only one who logs in graphically... so will KDE be completely screwed up because of the old settings if I do update? Or how should I go about this? -- HG. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* HG <hg.list@gmail.com> [04-07-12 11:58]:
I've been running openSUSE since S.u.S.E. (I think it was spelled like that) 8.0 both in work as well as home. And I've always had problems in updating the system at home - where I can't just buy a new server every other year. Currently I'm still running 11.3 which has degraded really badly. I've reached EOL with openSUSE previously, but never has the repos disappeared or died like now. So, it's painfully clear that I need to update.
http://download.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/distribution/11.3/
First question is, which "version?" I mean, just the regular, some evergreen or tumbleweed?
evergreen is particular opensuse versions designated for longer term support by volunteers. tumbleweed is "rolling release" supported primarly by Gregg KH, gregkh@suse.de. I have a server running 11.2-evergreen and have been satisfied. imnsho, either would be a good choice. Evergreen is targeted at five years, iirc, and you would probably be replacing hardware about then. Tumbleweed will last as long as it is popular. Both depend on supporters. For a home server w/o outside access, I would guess any version would do as long as you don't have hardware difficulties. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hi! On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
First question is, which "version?" I mean, just the regular, some evergreen or tumbleweed?
evergreen is particular opensuse versions designated for longer term support by volunteers.
tumbleweed is "rolling release" supported primarly by Gregg KH, gregkh@suse.de.
I have a server running 11.2-evergreen and have been satisfied.
Since I'm currently running 11.3, I can't really go down. Would be really difficult. Might as well go up... as it seems that there will not be 11.3 evergreen.
imnsho, either would be a good choice. Evergreen is targeted at five years, iirc, and you would probably be replacing hardware about then. Tumbleweed will last as long as it is popular. Both depend on supporters.
For a home server w/o outside access, I would guess any version would do as long as you don't have hardware difficulties.
I do have outside access (ssh, regular web some times and some times some experimental node.js services). Still I'm not that worried about not getting updates, but the problem is that I cannot install stuff anymore on the 11.3 as the repos have somehow disappeared. Sounds like evergreen would be better supported but as I'm not on supported version of that, I should probably go for 12.1 and tumbleweed? -- HG. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2012/04/07 19:36 (GMT+0300) HG composed:
the problem is that I cannot install stuff anymore on the 11.3 as the repos have somehow disappeared.
Officially that's true, but that's not the reality. http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/discontinued/distribution/ -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hi! On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
On 2012/04/07 19:36 (GMT+0300) HG composed:
the problem is that I cannot install stuff anymore on the 11.3 as the repos have somehow disappeared.
Officially that's true, but that's not the reality. http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/discontinued/distribution/
Thanks! I need to check this out! -- HG. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 12:36 PM, HG <hg.list@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi!
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
First question is, which "version?" I mean, just the regular, some evergreen or tumbleweed?
evergreen is particular opensuse versions designated for longer term support by volunteers.
tumbleweed is "rolling release" supported primarly by Gregg KH, gregkh@suse.de.
I have a server running 11.2-evergreen and have been satisfied.
Since I'm currently running 11.3, I can't really go down. Would be really difficult. Might as well go up... as it seems that there will not be 11.3 evergreen.
imnsho, either would be a good choice. Evergreen is targeted at five years, iirc, and you would probably be replacing hardware about then. Tumbleweed will last as long as it is popular. Both depend on supporters.
For a home server w/o outside access, I would guess any version would do as long as you don't have hardware difficulties.
I do have outside access (ssh, regular web some times and some times some experimental node.js services). Still I'm not that worried about not getting updates, but the problem is that I cannot install stuff anymore on the 11.3 as the repos have somehow disappeared.
Sounds like evergreen would be better supported but as I'm not on supported version of that, I should probably go for 12.1 and tumbleweed?
-- HG.
In your shoes, I would update to 11.4 (I just did that a couple weeks ago for one my small fileservers). 11.4 is very likely to be a evergreen supported release. (there was a vote and it won.) 12.1 is very unlikely to be a evergreen supported release. (long term kernel support issues. kernel 3.0 has been designated by kernel.org for multi-year support. 3.1 is already out of support from kernel.org's perspective.) You can probably get at least 3 years out of 11.4 from today. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hi! On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 11:19 PM, Greg Freemyer <greg.freemyer@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 12:36 PM, HG <hg.list@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi!
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
First question is, which "version?" I mean, just the regular, some evergreen or tumbleweed?
evergreen is particular opensuse versions designated for longer term support by volunteers.
tumbleweed is "rolling release" supported primarly by Gregg KH, gregkh@suse.de.
I have a server running 11.2-evergreen and have been satisfied.
Since I'm currently running 11.3, I can't really go down. Would be really difficult. Might as well go up... as it seems that there will not be 11.3 evergreen.
imnsho, either would be a good choice. Evergreen is targeted at five years, iirc, and you would probably be replacing hardware about then. Tumbleweed will last as long as it is popular. Both depend on supporters.
For a home server w/o outside access, I would guess any version would do as long as you don't have hardware difficulties.
I do have outside access (ssh, regular web some times and some times some experimental node.js services). Still I'm not that worried about not getting updates, but the problem is that I cannot install stuff anymore on the 11.3 as the repos have somehow disappeared.
Sounds like evergreen would be better supported but as I'm not on supported version of that, I should probably go for 12.1 and tumbleweed?
-- HG.
In your shoes, I would update to 11.4 (I just did that a couple weeks ago for one my small fileservers).
How should I go about the installation? Will 11.3 upgrade to 11.4 nicely? What about 12.1? Or should I write down all settings from users, samba, ssh, mediatomb, and all other services that I can think of and wipe the disk completely and do a clean install? What about the user preferences, such as kde preferences, somewhere in home dir? If the KDE is updated, will those mess it up? If so, how to get around it? Delete all dirs starting with .? Or, actually re-create all users to different directory and then just copy all folders that sound like they contain data (like Documents)? -- HG. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting HG <hg.list@gmail.com>:
In your shoes, I would update to 11.4 (I just did that a couple weeks ago for one my small fileservers). How should I go about the installation? Will 11.3 upgrade to 11.4 nicely? What about 12.1?
I haven't had any significant issues updating in the 11.x/12.x time series. It isn't like the old days when upgrading was dicey. Just be aware of major package version bumps, that is always the biggest issue. Things like PosgreSQL where after you upgrade don't work until you do a proper restore. <http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam@whitemice.org>:
Quoting HG <hg.list@gmail.com>:
In your shoes, I would update to 11.4 (I just did that a couple weeks ago for one my small fileservers). How should I go about the installation? Will 11.3 upgrade to 11.4 nicely? What about 12.1? I haven't had any significant issues updating in the 11.x/12.x time series. It isn't like the old days when upgrading was dicey. Just be aware of major package version bumps, that is always the biggest issue. Things like PosgreSQL where after you upgrade don't work until you do a proper restore. <http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/>
Sorry, meant to send <http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/2012/04/zyppering-from-114-to-121.html> The same is trivially possible from 11.3 and onwards. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam@whitemice.org> wrote:
Quoting Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam@whitemice.org>:
Quoting HG <hg.list@gmail.com>:
In your shoes, I would update to 11.4 (I just did that a couple weeks ago for one my small fileservers).
How should I go about the installation? Will 11.3 upgrade to 11.4 nicely? What about 12.1?
I haven't had any significant issues updating in the 11.x/12.x time series. It isn't like the old days when upgrading was dicey. Just be aware of major package version bumps, that is always the biggest issue. Things like PosgreSQL where after you upgrade don't work until you do a proper restore. <http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/>
Sorry, meant to send <http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/2012/04/zyppering-from-114-to-121.html>
The same is trivially possible from 11.3 and onwards.
Step 5) is out of date zypper dup --download "in-advance" That has been default since zypper as included in os 11.4. Separately you are missing zypper in zypper. That used to be recommended as the first step after zypper refresh. Maybe it is not needed anymore? Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2012-04-10 at 16:22 -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:
Step 5) is out of date zypper dup --download "in-advance" That has been default since zypper as included in os 11.4.
Hmm, the all the documentation I found mentioned the above option.
Separately you are missing zypper in zypper. That used to be recommended as the first step after zypper refresh. Maybe it is not needed anymore?
I've upgraded multiple hosts without it. And on my last 11.4 host, which I upgraded last night, I tried the "zypper in zypper" and it failed with unresolved dependencies [that host has no third-party repositories - just the core repos]. But "zypper dup" worked perfectly in performing the upgrade.
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam@whitemice.org> wrote:
On Tue, 2012-04-10 at 16:22 -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:
Step 5) is out of date zypper dup --download "in-advance" That has been default since zypper as included in os 11.4.
Hmm, the all the documentation I found mentioned the above option.
I did a test when I wrote that. If upgrading from 11.3 to 11.4 with a simple zypper dup, then you need the --download "in-advance" option to get the behavior you want. If you do: zypper in zypper zypper dup then you don't need the option. ie. zypper as included in 11.4 and newer defaults to that option.
Separately you are missing zypper in zypper. That used to be recommended as the first step after zypper refresh. Maybe it is not needed anymore?
I've upgraded multiple hosts without it. And on my last 11.4 host, which I upgraded last night, I tried the "zypper in zypper" and it failed with unresolved dependencies [that host has no third-party repositories - just the core repos]. But "zypper dup" worked perfectly in performing the upgrade.
Strange I did 3 11.3 => 11.4 migrations in the last month. I did all with zypper in zypper; zypper dup. Greg -- Greg Freemyer Head of EDD Tape Extraction and Processing team Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer CNN/TruTV Aired Forensic Imaging Demo - http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/23/how-computer-evidence-gets-retriev... The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hi! On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Greg Freemyer <greg.freemyer@gmail.com> wrote:
I did 3 11.3 => 11.4 migrations in the last month.
I did all with zypper in zypper; zypper dup.
what does zypper in zypper do (or mean)? Updates zypper itself or? -- HG. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 3:42 AM, HG <hg.list@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi!
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Greg Freemyer <greg.freemyer@gmail.com> wrote:
I did 3 11.3 => 11.4 migrations in the last month.
I did all with zypper in zypper; zypper dup.
what does zypper in zypper do (or mean)? Updates zypper itself or?
Yes, Assume for a minute that there is a design issue in 11.3's zypper that causes zypper dup to fail. It has been the opensuse policy to release the redesigned zypper in the following release (11.4 in this case). Thus if 11.3's zypper has a issue with doing a zypper dup, the safe way to upgrade is to first pull down zypper from 11.4. It will have a number of dependencies, so it will pull down a significant number of packages, but nowhere near the full upgrades worth. At least in 11.1 and 11.2 days, it was recommended you start your zypper dup style upgrades by upgrading zypper first. I no longer see that advice on the wiki, so maybe things have smoothed out now. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2012/04/14 10:08 (GMT-0400) Greg Freemyer composed:
HG wrote:
what does zypper in zypper do (or mean)? Updates zypper itself or?
Yes,
At least in 11.1 and 11.2 days, it was recommended you start your zypper dup style upgrades by upgrading zypper first.
I no longer see that advice on the wiki, so maybe things have smoothed out now.
I still do it, both out of habit, and because it seems safe and sensible. Except I don't. What I do, largely because most of my dups are to Factory, is: 1-zypper in rpm libzypp zypper wget curl mkinitrd perl-Bootloader yast2-bootloader openSUSE-release satsolver-tools (obsoleted in 12.2 by I'm not yet sure what) udev mc 2-zypper al <kernel> 3-zypper dup 4-zypper rl <kernel> 5-(optional) reboot 6-zypper dup My thinking is: 1-make sure foundational stuff is done first 2-generate initrd on a freshly installed kernel no more than once -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Adam Tauno Williams -
Felix Miata -
Greg Freemyer -
HG -
Patrick Shanahan -
Rajko M.