[opensuse] News Article - Re: Novell and openSUSE
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10173667-16.html Novell's $340 million lifeline from Microsoft appears to be losing its potency. Although Microsoft originally gifted Novell $240 million to help fight Red Hat, and later added another $100 million to the pile, it doesn't seem to be enough to revive Novell's fortunes, as the company reported disappointing first-quarter earnings and a slide even in its Linux business, which had been growing fairly well. "The pipe fell apart," declared Novell CEO Ron Hovsepian, as The Register reports. That's an intriguing statement, as other open-source companies with which I work have seen their pipelines grow tremendously, as enterprises look to open source to save money and boost productivity through the downturn. Novell now plans to cut prices aggressively to increase its market share, according to Hovsepian. Part of the problem, however, is that Novell isn't really an open-source company, and it doesn't pretend to be one. Most of its revenue comes from proprietary software, and that software didn't deliver in the first quarter. -- kai www.perfectreign.com | www.ecmplace.com www.twitter.com/PerfectReign -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-- kai www.perfectreign.com | www.ecmplace.com www.twitter.com/PerfectReign
So we're in a recession and the company is feeling the pain. Microsoft just laid people off too. Google had to make some changes too..... What does this have to with Opensuse? -- Michael S. Dunsavage -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:
-- kai www.perfectreign.com | www.ecmplace.com www.twitter.com/PerfectReign
So we're in a recession and the company is feeling the pain. Microsoft just laid people off too. Google had to make some changes too.....
What does this have to with Opensuse?
Only that Novell is openSUSE's parent... "Nor will it help that of the roughly 100 jobs Novell recently terminated, Novell reportedly trimmed 20 percent, or 30 people, from its OpenSuse ranks, according to Linux Magazine. Novell's OpenSuse community lead, Joe Brockmeier, has tried to put a positive spin on these layoffs, but with OpenSuse providing an early testbed for some of the technology that feeds into Suse Linux Enterprise Server, this can't be positive for innovation in Novell's Linux business. But the larger concern is Novell's continued dependence on Microsoft to sell Suse Linux. I have suggested in the past that Novell's reliance on Microsoft appeared to be waning. It appears that I was wrong, as The Register suggests:" -- kai www.perfectreign.com | www.ecmplace.com www.twitter.com/PerfectReign -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kai Ponte wrote:
Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:
-- kai www.perfectreign.com | www.ecmplace.com www.twitter.com/PerfectReign
So we're in a recession and the company is feeling the pain. Microsoft just laid people off too. Google had to make some changes too.....
What does this have to with Opensuse?
Only that Novell is openSUSE's parent...
"Nor will it help that of the roughly 100 jobs Novell recently terminated, Novell reportedly trimmed 20 percent, or 30 people, from its OpenSuse ranks, according to Linux Magazine. Novell's OpenSuse community lead, Joe Brockmeier, has tried to put a positive spin on these layoffs, but with OpenSuse providing an early testbed for some of the technology that feeds into Suse Linux Enterprise Server, this can't be positive for innovation in Novell's Linux business.
But the larger concern is Novell's continued dependence on Microsoft to sell Suse Linux. I have suggested in the past that Novell's reliance on Microsoft appeared to be waning. It appears that I was wrong, as The Register suggests:"
What really needs to be known, is "what" are other distos. who have gained market share doing that Novell isn't? openSUSE IS a better distro., but somehow "something" isn't being done to gain the market share that it should have. Fred -- The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
The article was sles related primarily, not opensuse. Can we drop it since this is not a sles list? On 2/28/09, Fred A. Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com> wrote:
Kai Ponte wrote:
Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:
-- kai www.perfectreign.com | www.ecmplace.com www.twitter.com/PerfectReign
So we're in a recession and the company is feeling the pain. Microsoft just laid people off too. Google had to make some changes too.....
What does this have to with Opensuse?
Only that Novell is openSUSE's parent...
"Nor will it help that of the roughly 100 jobs Novell recently terminated, Novell reportedly trimmed 20 percent, or 30 people, from its OpenSuse ranks, according to Linux Magazine. Novell's OpenSuse community lead, Joe Brockmeier, has tried to put a positive spin on these layoffs, but with OpenSuse providing an early testbed for some of the technology that feeds into Suse Linux Enterprise Server, this can't be positive for innovation in Novell's Linux business.
But the larger concern is Novell's continued dependence on Microsoft to sell Suse Linux. I have suggested in the past that Novell's reliance on Microsoft appeared to be waning. It appears that I was wrong, as The Register suggests:"
What really needs to be known, is "what" are other distos. who have gained market share doing that Novell isn't? openSUSE IS a better distro., but somehow "something" isn't being done to gain the market share that it should have.
Fred
-- The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
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On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 19:20 -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote:
but somehow "something" isn't being done to gain the market share that it should have.
The 2 main commercial distros are Suse and RH, right? But RH has Oracle's clone and CentOS. Does anyone really mimic Suse or Opensuse? I'd be curious to see the commerical suse numbers. -- Michael S. Dunsavage -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2009/02/28 19:20 (GMT-0500) Fred A. Miller composed:
What really needs to be known, is "what" are other distos. who have gained market share doing that Novell isn't? openSUSE IS a better distro., but somehow "something" isn't being done to gain the market share that it should have.
Ubuntu is available on a single CD, which they will provide gratis to anyone who bothers to ask for one. OpenSUSE must be purchased, or a big DVD iso downloaded (if you don't know how to how to use a NET CD to start an http install). -- "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up." Ephesians 4:29 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 28 February 2009 07:41:52 pm Felix Miata wrote:
Ubuntu is available on a single CD, which they will provide gratis to anyone who bothers to ask for one. OpenSUSE must be purchased, or a big DVD iso downloaded (if you don't know how to how to use a NET CD to start an http install).
I it is interesting that *ubuntus have no DVD. They give you small work base that you can upgrade as you want. What they still don't have is: Button: Read introduction Button: More programs Button: Setup devices Button: Setup programs Button: Beautify you screen Button: Ask question Though, we don't have it too. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Rajko M. <rmatov101@charter.net> wrote:
On Saturday 28 February 2009 07:41:52 pm Felix Miata wrote:
Ubuntu is available on a single CD, which they will provide gratis to anyone who bothers to ask for one. OpenSUSE must be purchased, or a big DVD iso downloaded (if you don't know how to how to use a NET CD to start an http install).
I it is interesting that *ubuntus have no DVD. They give you small work base that you can upgrade as you want. What they still don't have is:
Button: Read introduction Button: More programs Button: Setup devices Button: Setup programs Button: Beautify you screen Button: Ask question
Though, we don't have it too.
-- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
No DVD, they have a Live-CD which they expect everyone to install Ubuntu from. Or they have network boot. Then, you can add Apps throgh Add/Remove. They have a Sort By Popularity button, so you can get the common/popular stuff immediately in their Add/Remove Apps thingy. Allen -- Allen Registered Linux User 484485 (http://counter.li.org/) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 28 February 2009 09:26:51 pm Allen Zhu wrote:
They have a Sort By Popularity button, so you can get the common/popular stuff immediately in their Add/Remove Apps thingy.
I'm sure that our ftp admin can extract that information from download logs and create "Most downloaded" ranking list. It wouldn't be perfect, but it will much better then asking around. How to create real popularity list? -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 28 February 2009 09:26:51 pm Allen Zhu wrote:
They have a Sort By Popularity button, so you can get the common/popular stuff immediately in their Add/Remove Apps thingy.
I'm sure that our ftp admin can extract that information from download logs and create "Most downloaded" ranking list. It wouldn't be perfect, but it will much better then asking around.
How to create real popularity list?
There is also a feature request for something similar: https://features.opensuse.org/305877 Tom -- Thomas Schmidt (tschmidt [at] suse.de) SUSE Linux Products GmbH :: Research & Development :: Tools "Don't Panic" Douglas Adams (1952 - 11.05.2001) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 March 2009 06:38:09 am Thomas Schmidt wrote:
Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 28 February 2009 09:26:51 pm Allen Zhu wrote:
They have a Sort By Popularity button, so you can get the common/popular stuff immediately in their Add/Remove Apps thingy.
I'm sure that our ftp admin can extract that information from download logs and create "Most downloaded" ranking list. It wouldn't be perfect, but it will much better then asking around.
How to create real popularity list?
There is also a feature request for something similar: https://features.opensuse.org/305877
It is exactly what I meant.
"Don't Panic" Douglas Adams (1952 - 11.05.2001)
No prob, Tom. I don't. ;-) -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2009-02-28 at 21:09 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:
I it is interesting that *ubuntus have no DVD.
Yes, they have. http://cdimage.ubuntu.com//releases/hardy/release/ubuntu-8.04.1-dvd-i386.iso Interestingly, though, the metalink to that only has one source, so it dowloads slowly. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEUEARECAAYFAkmqBpoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VcVACgly5WOkS38nXD63ASyTkYjc4P wCgAmLqyfs8bgXuoo8ZcsyvUIKcukm8= =JTel -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 21:09 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 28 February 2009 07:41:52 pm Felix Miata wrote:
Ubuntu is available on a single CD, which they will provide gratis to anyone who bothers to ask for one. OpenSUSE must be purchased, or a big DVD iso downloaded (if you don't know how to how to use a NET CD to start an http install).
I it is interesting that *ubuntus have no DVD. They give you small work base that you can upgrade as you want. What they still don't have is:
Button: Read introduction Button: More programs Button: Setup devices Button: Setup programs Button: Beautify you screen Button: Ask question
Though, we don't have it too.
-- Regards, Rajko
Well we have: -OBS -studio (brewing online your own live cd/dvd/usb image) (On fosdem, people kept asking if something like studio was available for ubuntu/debian, so it looks like it's something people like.) hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2009/3/1 Hans Witvliet <hwit@a-domani.nl>:
Well we have: -OBS -studio (brewing online your own live cd/dvd/usb image)
(On fosdem, people kept asking if something like studio was available for ubuntu/debian, so it looks like it's something people like.)
Well suse studio is a proprietary Novell product just like netware et al. It's hardly an asset to a free software project like openSUSE. -- Benjamin Weber -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 March 2009, Benji Weber wrote:
2009/3/1 Hans Witvliet <hwit@a-domani.nl>:
Well we have: -OBS -studio (brewing online your own live cd/dvd/usb image)
(On fosdem, people kept asking if something like studio was available for ubuntu/debian, so it looks like it's something people like.)
Well suse studio is a proprietary Novell product just like netware et al. It's hardly an asset to a free software project like openSUSE.
Just another nail in the Novell coffin. Or even perhaps the SuSE name. Oh, well, at least the idea is a good one. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 11.0 Kernel 2.6.25 KDE 3.5 Kmail 1.9 2:43pm up 1:06, 2 users, load average: 0.01, 0.17, 0.20 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 March 2009 07:46:01 am Mike wrote:
On Sunday 01 March 2009, Benji Weber wrote:
2009/3/1 Hans Witvliet <hwit@a-domani.nl>:
Well we have: -OBS -studio (brewing online your own live cd/dvd/usb image)
(On fosdem, people kept asking if something like studio was available for ubuntu/debian, so it looks like it's something people like.)
Well suse studio is a proprietary Novell product just like netware et al. It's hardly an asset to a free software project like openSUSE.
Just another nail in the Novell coffin. Or even perhaps the SuSE name. Oh, well, at least the idea is a good one.
Mike
Intersting opinion Mike. Why it would be bad if http://www.susestudio.com/ brings some money in the house. Something has to pay bills: developers salary, office rooms, computer equipment, utility bills, interest on loans and to share holders, tax, and few more things that I missed. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 March 2009, Rajko M. wrote:
On Sunday 01 March 2009 07:46:01 am Mike wrote:
On Sunday 01 March 2009, Benji Weber wrote:
2009/3/1 Hans Witvliet <hwit@a-domani.nl>:
Well we have: -OBS -studio (brewing online your own live cd/dvd/usb image)
(On fosdem, people kept asking if something like studio was available for ubuntu/debian, so it looks like it's something people like.)
Well suse studio is a proprietary Novell product just like netware et al. It's hardly an asset to a free software project like openSUSE.
Just another nail in the Novell coffin. Or even perhaps the SuSE name. Oh, well, at least the idea is a good one.
Intersting opinion Mike.
Why it would be bad if http://www.susestudio.com/ brings some money in the house. Something has to pay bills: developers salary, office rooms, computer equipment, utility bills, interest on loans and to share holders, tax, and few more things that I missed.
I have no problem with that. But nowhere does it say that this is the idea. Yes, they offer jobs, and yet they release folks. Strange.. Your statement makes me think that the service is a pay as you go type of service. But I checked the wiki that is referenced on the site and there is nothing mentioned. So, you tell me. How will this "service" make money for Novell/SUSE? Mike -- Powered by SuSE 11.0 Kernel 2.6.25 KDE 3.5 Kmail 1.9 3:47pm up 2:10, 2 users, load average: 0.20, 0.17, 0.17 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 March 2009 08:52:31 am Mike wrote: ...
I have no problem with that. But nowhere does it say that this is the idea. Yes, they offer jobs, and yet they release folks. Strange.. Your statement makes me think that the service is a pay as you go type of service. But I checked the wiki that is referenced on the site and there is nothing mentioned. So, you tell me. How will this "service" make money for Novell/SUSE?
First, it is still alpha, so it can be finished and fly, or fail. It is interesting concept that I don't know much about. I'm not one of alpha testers, so all I can see is http://studio.suse.com/ podcast. Second, it can make money if one really wants, for instance as a service for third party appliance builders. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 March 2009, Rajko M. wrote:
On Sunday 01 March 2009 08:52:31 am Mike wrote: ...
I have no problem with that. But nowhere does it say that this is the idea. Yes, they offer jobs, and yet they release folks. Strange.. Your statement makes me think that the service is a pay as you go type of service. But I checked the wiki that is referenced on the site and there is nothing mentioned. So, you tell me. How will this "service" make money for Novell/SUSE?
First, it is still alpha, so it can be finished and fly, or fail. It is interesting concept that I don't know much about. I'm not one of alpha testers, so all I can see is http://studio.suse.com/ podcast. Same one that's been there for what seems like forever. When it was first mentioned months ago, I signed up. Never heard a thing and just forgot about it.
Second, it can make money if one really wants, for instance as a service for third party appliance builders.
Hadn't thought about something like that. Not sure how many would go for it, but it is an interesting idea.. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 11.0 Kernel 2.6.25 KDE 3.5 Kmail 1.9 7:24pm up 5:47, 2 users, load average: 0.36, 0.26, 0.21 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2009/02/28 19:20 (GMT-0500) Fred A. Miller composed:
What really needs to be known, is "what" are other distos. who have gained market share doing that Novell isn't? openSUSE IS a better distro., but somehow "something" isn't being done to gain the market share that it should have.
Ubuntu is available on a single CD, which they will provide gratis to anyone who bothers to ask for one. OpenSUSE must be purchased, or a big DVD iso downloaded (if you don't know how to how to use a NET CD to start an http install).
'Has to be more than just a free CD. ;) Maybe it's "dependency hell" that we keep having. I've not used KUbuntu that long to know....the short time I tried it, I didn't have any dependency issues on updates. I have an idea you know more about that than I do. Fred -- "The fundamental premise of liberalism is the moral incapacity of the American people." ~ Alan Keyes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Fred A. Miller pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2009/02/28 19:20 (GMT-0500) Fred A. Miller composed:
What really needs to be known, is "what" are other distos. who have gained market share doing that Novell isn't? openSUSE IS a better distro., but somehow "something" isn't being done to gain the market share that it should have. Ubuntu is available on a single CD, which they will provide gratis to anyone who bothers to ask for one. OpenSUSE must be purchased, or a big DVD iso downloaded (if you don't know how to how to use a NET CD to start an http install).
'Has to be more than just a free CD. ;) Maybe it's "dependency hell" that we keep having. I've not used KUbuntu that long to know....the short time I tried it, I didn't have any dependency issues on updates. I have an idea you know more about that than I do.
Fred
You seem to be one of the few that constantly has "dependency hell". If you are using other then the repos configured at install time by default you bring this on yourself. You constantly bitch about KDE 4.x not being ready but continue to use it when 3.x is still available and stable. I don't think you have as much choice with *buntu either. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2009-03-01 at 15:48 -0500, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
You seem to be one of the few that constantly has "dependency hell". If you are using other then the repos configured at install time by default you bring this on yourself.
Indeed. I had dependency hell issues to, until I figured out when I upgraded KDE that I had the stable and factory repos both active. I deactivated the stable ones and presto dependency hell issues were gone. -- Michael S. Dunsavage -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:
On Sun, 2009-03-01 at 15:48 -0500, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
You seem to be one of the few that constantly has "dependency hell". If you are using other then the repos configured at install time by default you bring this on yourself.
Indeed. I had dependency hell issues to, until I figured out when I upgraded KDE that I had the stable and factory repos both active. I deactivated the stable ones and presto dependency hell issues were gone.
It's OpenOffice that's been the biggest listing on most systems for over 2 weeks now. I've gotten ride of the few others I've had. Fred -- "The fundamental premise of liberalism is the moral incapacity of the American people." ~ Alan Keyes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, Mar 01, 2009 at 04:42:02PM -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote:
Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:
On Sun, 2009-03-01 at 15:48 -0500, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
You seem to be one of the few that constantly has "dependency hell". If you are using other then the repos configured at install time by default you bring this on yourself.
Indeed. I had dependency hell issues to, until I figured out when I upgraded KDE that I had the stable and factory repos both active. I deactivated the stable ones and presto dependency hell issues were gone.
It's OpenOffice that's been the biggest listing on most systems for over 2 weeks now. I've gotten ride of the few others I've had.
Then do not use the OpenOffice_org repo, but the distro supplied OpenOffice_org. The repo is apparently a bit broken at the moment according to other reports. Did you mail the OOo maitnainer or open a bugreport for it? Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
Fred A. Miller pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2009/02/28 19:20 (GMT-0500) Fred A. Miller composed:
What really needs to be known, is "what" are other distos. who have gained market share doing that Novell isn't? openSUSE IS a better distro., but somehow "something" isn't being done to gain the market share that it should have. Ubuntu is available on a single CD, which they will provide gratis to anyone who bothers to ask for one. OpenSUSE must be purchased, or a big DVD iso downloaded (if you don't know how to how to use a NET CD to start an http install). 'Has to be more than just a free CD. ;) Maybe it's "dependency hell" that we keep having. I've not used KUbuntu that long to know....the short time I tried it, I didn't have any dependency issues on updates. I have an idea you know more about that than I do.
Fred
You seem to be one of the few that constantly has "dependency hell". If you are using other then the repos configured at install time by default you bring this on yourself.
You constantly bitch about KDE 4.x not being ready but continue to use it when 3.x is still available and stable.
We're all going to be forced, soon, to move to 4.*, so I'm trying to use it. Factory repositories SHOULDN'T give us dependency grief.
I don't think you have as much choice with *buntu either.
No, you don't. :( Fred -- "The fundamental premise of liberalism is the moral incapacity of the American people." ~ Alan Keyes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Fred A. Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com> wrote:
We're all going to be forced, soon, to move to 4.*, so I'm trying to use it. Factory repositories SHOULDN'T give us dependency grief.
You are using the development repository and you are complaining about breakage, is that it? *shakes head* -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2009-03-01 at 16:31 -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote:
We're all going to be forced, soon, to move to 4.*, so I'm trying to use it. Factory repositories SHOULDN'T give us dependency grief.
It does if using Stable repos too -- Michael S. Dunsavage -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
just to add my cent : dependency IS an issue for newcomers. I don't know much about opensuse's philosophy and strategy concerning the every-day user, but there is definitely a barrier. And it does actually make a difference between *ubuntu and suse. see the figures (distrowatch, googletrends). And just for curiosity, IF development and factory repos together are ill-advised (and IF this fact regarded as common sense) , is it too much to expect that the every-day user is warned when he enables both in Yast? By the way, Im using both distros. I prefer suse when it is configured properly. But I realized that solving problems is much easier in ubuntu (e.g. dual screen, wlan, sound issues). Also, I have a few friends turning back to xp after suse. but not after ubuntu. It has nothing to do with free CDs. go and figure. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Gabor Pinter skrev: ...
By the way, Im using both distros. I prefer suse when it is configured properly. But I realized that solving problems is much easier in ubuntu (e.g. dual screen, wlan, sound issues). Also, I have a few friends turning back to xp after suse. but not after ubuntu.
Hi list, - my experience is that of Gabor's too -when setting up laptops for friends, I use Ubuntu. They are all newcomers who wish to get away from XP/Vista. SuSE is my distro for 9+ years, but the avarage user will very quickly run into problems, in effect making SuSE a BAD choice for a beginner who basicly needs a working laptop and perhaps doesn't care so much about what's in it.. The issues I've noticed are - in a somewhat arbitrary sequence - a) Knetworkmanager is not stable. It mostly works often for months and so. But when for whatever reason it decides to break, it does so effectively. In Ubuntu there are no issues with wireless instability. b) The built in sw repo-system of Ubuntu is just working. YaST is generally working, but once it decides to break... One example, in U the general user can install some sw, just give him the name of the app to install, that's all that is needed. Don't even try that in SuSE. c) If the Ubuntu hardware graphics supports it, it's a piece of cake to enable funny windows and all. In SuSE...hmmmm not so easy. d) Desktop stability, KDE4.2 is most likely stable and fine. It was a catastrophic (Novell top brass I guess) decision to let 4.1 go out the door before it was ready. The average non-tech user would never have accepted such a mess. Despite this little (I hope) constructive critisism, I absolutely very much prefer SuSE. But perhaps mostly because I'm somewhat comfortable with it. But even I am scared away when new 'features' of perhaps (to me) dubious value are introduced. One day I'll have to ditch my 10.3 and switch to 11.1 or whatever. I'll start using KDE4.2 - which gives me another problem. Not that I cannot use it, I'll learn and most likely be very pleased with it. But, I'll not be able to lock it down, using all my knowledge of how to do so in version 3.5. Time to learn again :-) -- ------------------------------ Med venlig hilsen/Best regards Verner Kjærsgaard Open Source Academy +45 56964223 Novell Certified Linux Professional 10035701 ------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 09:00 +0100, Verner Kjærsgaard wrote:
just give him the name of the app to install, that's all that is needed. Don't even try that in SuSE.
Why can't you do that in Yast? I just search for what I want. Or better yet, I go to http://software.opensuse.org/search and can find a 1 click install of most packages I want. -- Michael S. Dunsavage -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Michael S. Dunsavage skrev:
On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 09:00 +0100, Verner Kjærsgaard wrote:
just give him the name of the app to install, that's all that is needed. Don't even try that in SuSE.
Why can't you do that in Yast? I just search for what I want. Or better yet, I go to http://software.opensuse.org/search and can find a 1 click install of most packages I want.
Hi, - I can do it in YaST. I find YaST excellent, I like the idea of selecting repos and all. I even more like the idea of one-click-install. To/for me it works rather fine. - but for the oddest reasons, the averae non-tech user can't... - it irritates me beyond, believe me. But that's what I experience. -- ------------------------------ Med venlig hilsen/Best regards Verner Kjærsgaard Open Source Academy +45 56964223 Novell Certified Linux Professional 10035701 ------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 02 March 2009 09:18:41 am Verner Kjærsgaard wrote:
Michael S. Dunsavage skrev:
On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 09:00 +0100, Verner Kjærsgaard wrote:
just give him the name of the app to install, that's all that is needed. Don't even try that in SuSE.
Why can't you do that in Yast? I just search for what I want. Or better yet, I go to http://software.opensuse.org/search and can find a 1 click install of most packages I want.
Hi,
- I can do it in YaST. I find YaST excellent, I like the idea of selecting repos and all. I even more like the idea of one-click-install. To/for me it works rather fine.
- but for the oddest reasons, the averae non-tech user can't... - it irritates me beyond, believe me. But that's what I experience.
It is. Problem is that more than 90% never reinstalled OS, even if that means drop recovery DVD in a tray and answer 2-3 scary questions. While questions are fair warnings, to inexperienced they sound like "computer is going to be burned to the ashes" if you answer with yes. Most that I know need only one time hand holding, but that is what is missing, and it is actually not Linux related. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 02 March 2009 09:00:45 Verner Kjærsgaard wrote:
a) Knetworkmanager is not stable. It mostly works often for months and so. But when for whatever reason it decides to break, it does so effectively. In Ubuntu there are no issues with wireless instability.
I've personally taken this one in hand now, and NM-kde4 is going to be good. Unlike its predecessors, we've got other KDE developers involved in it now, so it will be more intensively maintained. Will
Will Stephenson skrev:
On Monday 02 March 2009 09:00:45 Verner Kjærsgaard wrote:
a) Knetworkmanager is not stable. It mostly works often for months and so. But when for whatever reason it decides to break, it does so effectively. In Ubuntu there are no issues with wireless instability.
I've personally taken this one in hand now, and NM-kde4 is going to be good. Unlike its predecessors, we've got other KDE developers involved in it now, so it will be more intensively maintained.
Will
Dear Sir, - this sounds EXCELLENT! - it IS one of the major points in any distro of today. The fixed PC under the table is dying, being replaced with laptops and netbooks and all. This makes an automated "catch the wireless" ever so important. Furthermore, computers are now so small and lightweight that we tend to carry them with us, further eleviating the need for at proper automated wireless operation. In what ways can I assist? -- ------------------------------ Med venlig hilsen/Best regards Verner Kjærsgaard Open Source Academy +45 56964223 Novell Certified Linux Professional 10035701 ------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 14:20 +0900, Gabor Pinter wrote:
is it too much to expect that the every-day user is warned when he enables both in Yast?
It says right on the website above the factory repos that there is conflict with stable repos and you should not run them together. -- Michael S. Dunsavage -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 02 March 2009 06:48:18 am Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:
On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 14:20 +0900, Gabor Pinter wrote:
is it too much to expect that the every-day user is warned when he enables both in Yast?
It says right on the website above the factory repos that there is conflict with stable repos and you should not run them together.
Can you give me URL, I can't find in: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/ http://download.opensuse.org/factory/ The only one that has some kind of warning: http://en.opensuse.org/Development_Version "Don't use on production machines, and make sure to backup your data before installing on any machine." -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 14:20 +0900, Gabor Pinter wrote:
is it too much to expect that the every-day user is warned when he enables both in Yast?
It says right on the website above the factory repos that there is conflict with stable repos and you should not run them together.
Can you give me URL, I can't find in: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/ http://download.opensuse.org/factory/
Scroll down on this page: http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Repositories --> KDE 4.2 Factory Develpoment. [ Those repositories are incompatible with the STABLE: repos, so you can only use one at a time. ] http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Repositories --> KDE 4 Qt Packages [ If you are not developing and just want to use KDE 4.2, you should use the KDE:/Qt44 repos instead. After the next online- update you do not need any Qt repo for 11.1 + KDE 4.2 ] More relevant for the KDE 4 Repo's, particularly in view of recent release of KDE 4.2.
On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 14:20 +0900, Gabor Pinter wrote:
is it too much to expect that the every-day user is warned when he enables both in Yast?
I agree with Gabor here: especially as openSUSE 11.1 has the option to include KDE 3.5.x and KDE 4.x in the same installation. If the correct repos (including Qt44 for the Qt repo's) aren't chosen, the installation can be flawed/unstable...have experienced this myself. Would be good if there was a Yast warning about this and similar incompatibilities in repo's. Or maybe even better if Yast automatically excluded/disabled a conflicting repo. Jay -- Registered Linux User # 483705 @ http://counter.li.org/ (openSUSE 11.1, i686) Smolts Profile: http://www.smolts.org/client/show/?uuid=pub_b541a450-9bc1-45fd-beab-d46ee43a... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 21:36 +0530, Jay Mistry wrote:
Would be good if there was a Yast warning about this and similar incompatibilities in repo's. Or maybe even better if Yast automatically excluded/disabled a conflicting repo.
Maybe open a wishlist bug? -- Michael S. Dunsavage -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Michael S. Dunsavage <mikesd1@verizon.net> wrote:
On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 21:36 +0530, Jay Mistry wrote:
Would be good if there was a Yast warning about this and similar incompatibilities in repo's. Or maybe even better if Yast automatically excluded/disabled a conflicting repo.
Maybe open a wishlist bug?
That was regards Gabor Pinter's earlier comment (in the <minus was> thread, quoted by Rajko above).
Maybe open a wishlist bug?
A wishlist would do just fine (....what with lizards, bugs & ....), even if an 'only by invitation' one > http://en.opensuse.org/OpenFATE. OpenFATE seems a move in the right direction. Jay -- Registered Linux User # 483705 @ http://counter.li.org/ (openSUSE 11.1, i686) Smolts Profile: http://www.smolts.org/client/show/?uuid=pub_b541a450-9bc1-45fd-beab-d46ee43a... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 02 March 2009 10:06:30 am Jay Mistry wrote:
On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 14:20 +0900, Gabor Pinter wrote:
is it too much to expect that the every-day user is warned when he enables both in Yast?
It says right on the website above the factory repos that there is conflict with stable repos and you should not run them together.
Can you give me URL, I can't find in: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/ http://download.opensuse.org/factory/
Scroll down on this page: http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Repositories --> KDE 4.2 Factory Develpoment.
OK. Looked in a wrong place.
[ Those repositories are incompatible with the STABLE: repos, so you can only use one at a time. ]
http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Repositories --> KDE 4 Qt Packages
[ If you are not developing and just want to use KDE 4.2, you should use the KDE:/Qt44 repos instead. After the next online- update you do not need any Qt repo for 11.1 + KDE 4.2 ]
I use Qt 4.5 and it seems good enough, faster, in zooming activities much faster than 4.4, for me it works better. I've seen some broken plasmoids that can't save settings, but they have more problems than that. Panel seems to work as it should. I didn't moved it around the screen yet, as previously it would loose connection to taskbar and all I could do is to remove old and create new taskbar.
More relevant for the KDE 4 Repo's, particularly in view of recent release of KDE 4.2.
On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 14:20 +0900, Gabor Pinter wrote:
is it too much to expect that the every-day user is warned when he enables both in Yast?
I agree with Gabor here: especially as openSUSE 11.1 has the option to include KDE 3.5.x and KDE 4.x in the same installation. If the correct repos (including Qt44 for the Qt repo's) aren't chosen, the installation can be flawed/unstable...have experienced this myself. Would be good if there was a Yast warning about this and similar incompatibilities in repo's. Or maybe even better if Yast automatically excluded/disabled a conflicting repo.
It should not exist such thing as incompatible repositories. It seems to me more packaging problem. I can't say why as I know about packaging too little, but there is a lot of repositories around and not many problems. Maybe some of developers can shed some light on this. In case that is not possible to prevent such problems, than we really need new feature in package management, not only YaST. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 09:51 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:
Can you give me URL, I can't find in: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/ http://download.opensuse.org/factory/
No, you won't find it there. Those are actual indexes. You were complaining about KDE so look @ http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Repositories/#KDE_4.2_Factory_Development Also look at http://en.opensuse.org/Development_Version#Factory_Tree Also at the very top of that page is a little warning that says Factory is the name of their regularly updated DEVELOPMENT tree which will result in the next openSUSE version.
-- Michael S. Dunsavage -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:
On Sun, 2009-03-01 at 16:31 -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote:
We're all going to be forced, soon, to move to 4.*, so I'm trying to use it. Factory repositories SHOULDN'T give us dependency grief.
It does if using Stable repos too
Yep....sure does! Did a new install tonight, setup the community repos. as defined in 11.1, including the OO site.....NADA!! OO can't update...brand newly installed system, replacing MickySoft. Fred -- The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Fred A. Miller wrote:
You constantly bitch about KDE 4.x not being ready but continue to use it when 3.x is still available and stable.
We're all going to be forced, soon, to move to 4.*, so I'm trying to use it. Factory repositories SHOULDN'T give us dependency grief.
Dude, no one is "forcing" anything. You can certainly choose to run KDE 3. Hey, if it floats your boat, here's KDE 2.2.2 for you to use... ftp://ftp.oregonstate.edu/pub/kde/Attic/2.2.2/ -- kai www.perfectreign.com | www.ecmplace.com www.twitter.com/PerfectReign -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Kai Ponte <opensuse@perfectreign.com> wrote:
Fred A. Miller wrote:
You constantly bitch about KDE 4.x not being ready but continue to use it when 3.x is still available and stable.
We're all going to be forced, soon, to move to 4.*, so I'm trying to use it. Factory repositories SHOULDN'T give us dependency grief.
Dude, no one is "forcing" anything. You can certainly choose to run KDE 3. Hey, if it floats your boat, here's KDE 2.2.2 for you to use...
ftp://ftp.oregonstate.edu/pub/kde/Attic/2.2.2/
-- kai www.perfectreign.com | www.ecmplace.com www.twitter.com/PerfectReign
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
From openSUSE (then SUSE) 7.3!
http://www.kde.org/announcements/announce-2.2.2.php http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/extra/kde/kde222volumecontrol.png http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/extra/kde/kde222login.png Loving it! Allen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (19)
-
Allen Zhu -
Benji Weber -
Carlos E. R. -
Druid -
Felix Miata -
Fred A. Miller -
Gabor Pinter -
Greg Freemyer -
Hans Witvliet -
Jay Mistry -
Kai Ponte -
Ken Schneider - openSUSE -
Marcus Meissner -
Michael S. Dunsavage -
Mike -
Rajko M. -
Thomas Schmidt -
Verner Kjærsgaard -
Will Stephenson