Re: [opensuse] Cannot write to Windows partition(s)
On 2011/07/28 16:17 (GMT+1000) Basil Chupin composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
dmask, fmask & umask are all octal inversions of chmod usage.
fmask=133 produces -rw-r--r--, like chmod 644 dmask=022 produces drwxr-xr-x, like chmod 755
In any event, I set fmask=0111& dmask=0000, giving dirs drwxrwxrwx and files -rw-rw-rw-. Why the installer sets what it sets I have no idea, other than risk of naive writes to NTFS making things in Windows work no longer while booted to it.
Many thanks for this, Felix. I can now write to the partitions.
Your explanation gave me the opportunity to (finally :-) ) come to grips with this permission stuff a lot better than I did before.
I noted that you are using 4 digits in your masks but fstab is using only 3. In coming to grips with this permissions 'hassle' I read that the 4-digit approach should be used because it leaves the 4th digit undefined and therefore in its default state. Does this mean, if you know that is, that either 1) openSUSE is not following the more prudent method of coding or 2) openSUSE does not recognise/use the 4-digit approach?
I've never found comprehensible documentation of sticky, setuid, et al, so haven't come to grips to the meaning of the 4th myself. That said, I can't imagine any of those applying to the use of those masks on a Windows partition mount, leaving 4 acceptable for that purpose. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 28/07/11 20:12, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2011/07/28 16:17 (GMT+1000) Basil Chupin composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
dmask, fmask & umask are all octal inversions of chmod usage.
fmask=133 produces -rw-r--r--, like chmod 644 dmask=022 produces drwxr-xr-x, like chmod 755
In any event, I set fmask=0111& dmask=0000, giving dirs drwxrwxrwx and files -rw-rw-rw-. Why the installer sets what it sets I have no idea, other than risk of naive writes to NTFS making things in Windows work no longer while booted to it.
Many thanks for this, Felix. I can now write to the partitions.
Your explanation gave me the opportunity to (finally :-) ) come to grips with this permission stuff a lot better than I did before.
I noted that you are using 4 digits in your masks but fstab is using only 3. In coming to grips with this permissions 'hassle' I read that the 4-digit approach should be used because it leaves the 4th digit undefined and therefore in its default state. Does this mean, if you know that is, that either 1) openSUSE is not following the more prudent method of coding or 2) openSUSE does not recognise/use the 4-digit approach?
I've never found comprehensible documentation of sticky, setuid, et al, so haven't come to grips to the meaning of the 4th myself. That said, I can't imagine any of those applying to the use of those masks on a Windows partition mount, leaving 4 acceptable for that purpose.
This makes sense of course. But it does sound a bit paradoxical to have these masks applying to windows partitions when they are not applied to linux partitions where they permissions play a vital part. (I'm just musing and not asking for an explanation - some things are best left alone :-) .) BC -- Paradise is like Hell and neither is too far from you because both are creations of your mind and therefore both are already inside you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:18:29 PM Basil Chupin wrote:
But it does sound a bit paradoxical to have these masks applying to windows partitions
The only paradox is applying restrictive masks that require visit to http://en.opensuse.org/NTFS and manually change /etc/fstab file to be able to use hard disk space on Windows partition. It is scary how easy is to render fstab useless. You added that partition to file system, to make access easy, and then you scrambled permissions without safe way to enable them, where safe is understandable, with sufficient warnings. (Over)Protecting users from themselves is doomed to fail. Those that know computers will be annoyed. They will realize that from Linux they see stuff that is hidden in Windows, and that they have to be careful. Those that don't are doing irresponsible things everywhere (in Windows, cell phones, smartphones, Macs, on the street, in the house). In other words, you make yourself look bad without any positive effect on majority of users. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 30/07/11 01:00, Rajko M. wrote:
On Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:18:29 PM Basil Chupin wrote:
But it does sound a bit paradoxical to have these masks applying to windows partitions The only paradox is applying restrictive masks that require visit to http://en.opensuse.org/NTFS and manually change /etc/fstab file to be able to use hard disk space on Windows partition. It is scary how easy is to render fstab useless.
You added that partition to file system, to make access easy, and then you scrambled permissions without safe way to enable them, where safe is understandable, with sufficient warnings.
(Over)Protecting users from themselves is doomed to fail. Those that know computers will be annoyed. They will realize that from Linux they see stuff that is hidden in Windows, and that they have to be careful. Those that don't are doing irresponsible things everywhere (in Windows, cell phones, smartphones, Macs, on the street, in the house).
In other words, you make yourself look bad without any positive effect on majority of users.
I am not sure what you are arguing about or pointing out to me, Rajko. I guess that it must be all a matter of English expression. Whichever is the case, here is the situation for which I asked a solution. I have a couple of HDDs which have always had XP installed. I have been using SuSE/openSUSE for 10 years now and cannot remember not being able to write to the Windows partitions since ntfs-3g was implemented and without having to do any fiddles in fstab. Now, why was ntfs-3g implemented? Anyway, using these HDDs I did a clean install of openSUSE 11.4 - and then found that I could not write to the Windows partitions. (The answer lay in the fstab parameters for the windows partitions.) Just in case you think that this is a "one-off" situation, I have installed previous versions of oS on these HDDs as well as other distros - and all were able to write to those partitions. As I said, it is probably a matter of the use of English, but your comments seem to indicate that by me asking the question and then altering the fmask and dmask as suggested has somehow made "[myself] look bad" and negatively affected the "majority of users". I shall ask again: why was ntfs-3g implemented? BC -- Paradise is like Hell and neither is too far from you because both are creations of your mind and therefore both are already inside you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday, July 30, 2011 08:54:47 AM Basil Chupin wrote:
As I said, it is probably a matter of the use of English, but your comments seem to indicate that by me asking the question and then altering the fmask and dmask as suggested has somehow made "[myself] look bad" and negatively affected the "majority of users".
It was just general comment (rant) how some trivial decisions make us as distro, not you, look bad without any effect on those that such decisions should protect. We make life of every user hard, to protect those that is almost impossible to protect. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 01/08/11 12:36, Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday, July 30, 2011 08:54:47 AM Basil Chupin wrote:
As I said, it is probably a matter of the use of English, but your comments seem to indicate that by me asking the question and then altering the fmask and dmask as suggested has somehow made "[myself] look bad" and negatively affected the "majority of users". It was just general comment (rant) how some trivial decisions make us as distro, not you, look bad without any effect on those that such decisions should protect. We make life of every user hard, to protect those that is almost impossible to protect.
Understood :-) . I cannot for the life of me remember the actual signature by someone which basically stated that the "nanny-state" approach should be abandoned and let Darwin's "natural selection" principle take over: if you are a dickhead and stick your fingers into a power outlet and get deaded then you won't procreate and create yet another dickhead. (A few years ago I went to have my chainsaw sharpened and got to talking to the owner about WARNING labels on appliances one buys. One example came to mind where a 'mentally challenged' man bought himself a petrol-driven chainsaw, sat on a branch of his tree facing the tree trunk and promptly cut off the branch. He sued the manufacturer - and won.) BC -- Paradise is like Hell and neither is too far from you because both are creations of your mind and therefore both are already inside you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (3)
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Basil Chupin -
Felix Miata -
Rajko M.