Re: [SLE] Re: Relational Databases with SuSE 9.1
---------- Original Message -------------
Subject: [SLE] Re: Relational Databases with SuSE 9.1
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 03:39:41 +0100
From: Sid Boyce
On 18/08/04 01:59 +0100, Sid Boyce wrote:
The modern databases and their GUI's are jobs for the DBA boys, they complicate unnecessarily something simple.
May I jump in here? You guys are confusing topics based on terminology.
A database is *any structured set of data*. A phone book is a database. My recipe list is a database. /etc/hosts is a database.
What you guys are talking about are database MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS. BIG difference! And no, I'm not just being pendantic.
How I manage my set of automative tools (oil can, gas tank, a screwdriver) is vastly different from how the 16-bay automotive center down the street manages their tools. We both have a database (of tools) but our needs are vastly different.
For Sid's hamradio log, PostgreSQL and MySQL are WAY overpowered. But I'd like to see Sid use his hamradio log tools to maintain 15 years worth of daily and monthly data from the stock market. See the difference?
What both Pete and I are looking for is something that is less complicated to set up and use. I bet after umpteen years he could go back to Dbase III and be productive or I can go back to the shareware and be likewise productive.
For people who don't need an SQL-based database, there are plenty of other choices. Since Pete is enamored of Dbase III (I'm an old FoxPRo guy, myself), he should look into XBase, which is the generic DBase and runs under Linux as well as Windows.
OK, I shall have a look at XBase, tried it some years ago, but it segfaulted and I never got to evaluate it. ---------- Where can you dl XBase? Google search doesn't offer much - looks like it's been re-named and and I don't know what all else. I finally found Xharbour.org, that has an xBase compiler for Linux (SUSE 9.1, even!). Would that be it? ---------
If you are using a GUI, it should hide the complexity from you and allow you to concentrate on the end result.
And alot of GUIs do that. Which is why I'm at the command line more often than not. ;-) I for one, need that complexity. Then again, you don't, so we probably shouldn't be using the same tools.
Likewise, I use the commandline mostly, but for some peripheral activities, I just GUI them out of the way. ----------- The problem I had with a GUI like Access is that the terminology seemed too confusing. The idea of a one-to-many relationship makes sense when I read about it, but I always messed up the implementation. The idea of a left join (just an example) in SQL may not make quite as much sense, but is easier for me to understand how to implement it. After I played with MySQL, I never looked back at Access! -------------
Appreciating that you guys are not responsible for the state of the software we sometimes have to suffer and if you need it badly enough, you stick with it until you have a good degree of proficiency, but there are other things I'd rather tackle. May be I was spoilt by the ease-of-use available years ago and hence my puzzlement at the current
That's like me saying "why do I need to buy all this ham radio gear and take tests and study and stuff? All I want to do is to listen to the baseball game. It shouldn't be this difficult". Well, it wouldn't be that difficult if I used the right tools, e.g. a transistor radio.
Not really, there some things you can't master, I've built most of my ham gear and test equipment over many years and enjoyed it, but some guys don't have the knowledge and even some with the knowledge would not want to spend the time and effort, so they buy ready made equipment and are mad about building antennas, yet others get everything off the shelf, all hams just the same, but with different needs. There was a GUI going back some years that made mysql easy to handle, too easy perhaps, so it was dropped in favour of the new tools and the old version didn't run with the new glibc - seemed like turf protection to me. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer =====LINUX ONLY USED HERE===== -- Web Developer Matheteuo Christian Fellowship webdev@matheteuo.org http://matheteuo.org/ Running MS Windows + Office = $400 Running Linux + OpenOffice.org = $0 Celebrating as you delete your format your Windows drive = PRICELESS
On Wednesday August 18 2004 12:44 am, Web Developer wrote:
The modern databases and their GUI's are jobs for the DBA boys, they complicate unnecessarily something simple.
[snip] I'm of the opinion that MOST users would do very well with the dBASE-3 compatible application built into OpenOffice. Fred -- "Running Windows on a Pentium is like getting a Porsche but only being able to drive it in reverse with the handbrake on."
On Wednesday 18 Aug 2004 06:10, Fred Miller wrote:
On Wednesday August 18 2004 12:44 am, Web Developer wrote:
The modern databases and their GUI's are jobs for the DBA boys, they complicate unnecessarily something simple.
[snip]
I'm of the opinion that MOST users would do very well with the dBASE-3 compatible application built into OpenOffice
Fred
-- "Running Windows on a Pentium is like getting a Porsche but only being able to drive it in reverse with the handbrake on."
Well i dunno which version of OpenOffice. you got but aint nothing like in the version i got The standard off the Suse 9.1 cd's version aint nothin to do with Dbase 3 to be seen no where BTW Xbase Hummmmm yse might just as well be MySql . No one seems to be understanding what i am saying her at all , The whole point of the excersie is quite simple (dam line wrap u/s again) you start an application you enter read alter the data you leave the application you dont start the database engine then start the app them load the Db then do your task .. Sorry to go on but this is a REAL BUG as far as i am concerned that needs solving it is ok for those that understand dtatbases ect and probably work with them all day i dont i need small data storage/manipulation that is Quick Easy i dont profess to understand SQL and friends as far as i am concerned they need hiding i dont want to see or know about them , I have built several data applications using Dbase III plus some of which handled pretty large amounts of data and also displayed drawings , But all the time i had nothing to do with sql and co needed no knowledge of the internals of what goes on just decide where you wanted the entry field to appear on the screen what type of data it was text numeric date ect the lenght and bingo repeat as many times as you need tell it what fields link to any others and away you go Now i have just tried Xbase with Rekall ye gads what a total bummer things i dont want to know exist and with out them you get nowhere . As i said before Linux is fine the best thing to hit the computer world for a very long time but as far as data base and the small user go it is a total washout , I am not a programmer of any sorts i have tried to learn C and friends but to no avail (i could never learn German at school i am half Yugoslav but i cant learn the language and it appears things like C Pascall ect fall into the same area) so i have to rely on others but it sems no one else needs small data handling you all run huge Multinational Corp with database records running into the Gigabyte area so gusee I'll find me an old copy of dbase III plus and run it in dosemu . that seems to be the only way to get something sensible going . Pete . -- Linux user No: 256242 Machine No: 139931 G6NJR Pete also MSA registered "Quinton 11" A Linux Only area Happy bug hunting M$ clan PGN
In a previous message, peter Nikolic
The whole point of the excersie is quite simple (dam line wrap u/s again) you start an application you enter read alter the data you leave the application you dont start the database engine then start the app them load the Db then do your task ..
If you want to use a relational database system, your best bet is still probably Rekall. You set mysql (or whatever) to run at boot time and then just launch Rekall when you want access to the database. It opens with a default form, you perform your task and quit. Very simple, just as you want. You don't need to understand SQL or anything like that. It even lets you create macros very simply to automate data entry etc. There are hard ways to do the same thing, but this is the easy way. If you don't need relational database support, then use OOo as Fred suggested. The OOo site gives instructions on how to get it working. It's not completely trivial (they really need to improve this IMO) but it should work OK.
Now i have just tried Xbase with Rekall ye gads what a total bummer things i dont want to know exist and with out them you get nowhere .
Don't use xbase, use mysql. IME, it just works. Follow the (very simple) instructions for creating your database (i.e. create a table, create rows, create forms, populate database). The only vaguely technical thing you need to know is what type of data you are going to enter into each field, but every DBMS on the planet requires you to define that. You can even avoid forms if a simple table entry mode works for you. John -- John Pettigrew Headstrong Games john@headstrong-games.co.uk Fun : Strategy : Price http://www.headstrong-games.co.uk/ Board games that won't break the bank Fields of Valour: 2 Norse clans battle on one of 3 different boards
participants (4)
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Fred Miller -
John Pettigrew -
peter Nikolic -
Web Developer