Hi! While waiting for the next SUSE release, I came accross SLICK. Can someone explain to me what it actually is? Yes, I read the web-pages. I got the idea that it is a SUSE linux that never needs update - thanks to Kynaptic. So is this the last version ever? I mean, there is no actual versions of SLICK, or? If there were, what would/will be the difference? Next obvious question is... why would anybody choose any other SUSE version than SLICK? Ok, perhaps companies or institutions who want to standardize. But home users... the biggest problem with SUSE has been that you need to reinstall everything when you want the versions of something (for instance, some small application that happens to need newer KDE). Next question is: how do YaST and YOU relate to kynaptic? Does kynaptic provide nightly security batches? Or does YOU still provide them? But doesn't YOU get it wrong as one could have used kynaptic to get totally different versions of software? Or is this something that needs to be done manually? Last question, would this be _the_ version to install to a laptop that doesn't have a CD drive (and therefore all SUSE updates are a pain..)? I presume this can be installed with floppies and network? -- HG.
HG wrote:
Ok, perhaps companies or institutions who want to standardize. But home users... the biggest problem with SUSE has been that you need to reinstall everything when you want the versions of something (for instance, some small application that happens to need newer KDE).
Well, if you're reinstalling for that sort of thing, I can see why you think it's a problem. I would tend to turn that around and say the small application is the problem, not SUSE. Chances are you might very well be able to just rebuild that small app instead (using your current KDE).
Last question, would this be _the_ version to install to a laptop that doesn't have a CD drive (and therefore all SUSE updates are a pain..)?
You can always install an update over the network.
I presume this can be installed with floppies and network?
Probably even easier - USB-stick. /Per Jessen, Zürich
Hi!
On 4/11/06, Per Jessen
HG wrote:
Ok, perhaps companies or institutions who want to standardize. But home users... the biggest problem with SUSE has been that you need to reinstall everything when you want the versions of something (for instance, some small application that happens to need newer KDE).
Well, if you're reinstalling for that sort of thing, I can see why you think it's a problem. I would tend to turn that around and say the
Ah, that is just a sample - at some point this will happen... but perhaps it's just not that small program. It might also be that you do not get the security updates anymore... or that the KDE that was shipped is filled with bugs (like SuSE 9.0) or... well you get the point. At some point you need to upgrade something big and it is only possible by upgrading the whole distribution. So with SLICK, is this all fixed? Are there anymore different SLICK versions?
small application is the problem, not SUSE. Chances are you might very well be able to just rebuild that small app instead (using your current KDE).
Yes, the source code is available... but I really do not have the time to get the source code and then spend a day to get it to compile and then wait 2 days for it to compile. :-) There are different kinds of Linux users here, I'm one of those who are quite happy to get pre-compiled versions of the software. Actually many are such SUSE users that they only ever instal those programs that are available through YaST. I'm almost one of these. Kynaptic seems to make this selection much wider. There is already too much to configure with the current Linux softwares, we can just use all our time to compile source code and then configure the software - we never have the time to use them. :-(
Last question, would this be _the_ version to install to a laptop that doesn't have a CD drive (and therefore all SUSE updates are a pain..)?
You can always install an update over the network.
Yes, but - at least always before - with SuSE one needs to boot from the new CD. Update was not possible from running the old system and going to YaST. Even though, it looks like it. I've tried it last with some 9.X versions and ... well, it did not work at all. (I started with SuSE/Linux at around 9.0... so I didn't know this then.) So, I think I need to start from CD/DVD (impossible) or floppies (about 6-8 of them) to either install completely new system or to do the update.
I presume this can be installed with floppies and network?
Probably even easier - USB-stick.
USB doesn't work for this (or on this machine). Network boot would be ok, but it's too hard for me to set up with SUSE. I've tried it with knoppix though and it works just fine. Actually, I could see a tremendeous benefit for small business if SUSE would include a easy to setup network boot installation. Large businesses can take the time to use the current systems, but smaller can not. It's easier to just go around the computers with a DVD (usually the installations are slightly different for different needs) - so Knoppix style (=easy, "start server here") network boot installation would help there. -- HG.
HG wrote:
Yes, but - at least always before - with SuSE one needs to boot from the new CD. Update was not possible from running the old system and going to YaST
one needs only the "linux" and "initrd" files from the first cd (probably available also from the net) and a working grub boot, what you seems to have. then giving them to grub as kernel/initrd, of course tihs gives you all what the floppies used to give and more... you can setup network or mount usb drive jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
Thanks. I'm now only getting answers to how to install SUSE. Can somebody please explain all this SLICK thing? Are there any point to SLICK versions? How does security patches work, does Kynaptic do that? Relation and interoperability of kynaptic and YaST or YOU? Or problems? And so on? Is this the SUSE that is always on the bleeding edge? Or do I still need to update it once in a year or so? -- HG.
HG wrote:
Thanks.
I'm now only getting answers to how to install SUSE. Can somebody please explain all this SLICK thing?
AFAIK Slick is just a project to make SUSE faster and probably the idea there has already been included in 10.1. there was also a 1cd project, time ago merged with SLICK, and If I weel understand 10.1 will have the ability to be installed from the first cd only, so maybe the others have no more interest? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:23:16AM +0200, jdd wrote:
there was also a 1cd project, time ago merged with SLICK, and If I weel understand 10.1 will have the ability to be installed from the first cd only, so maybe the others have no more interest?
Minimal install will be possible with CD1. SLICK was a 1CD that had KDE and also SUSE on board. How to make such a CD is explained (in a rather confusing way) on http://en.opensuse.org/1_CD_Install NOTE: The links doe not work anymore. Anybody pointers to working version. I am especially interested in a working control.xml houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
HG wrote:
At some point you need to upgrade something big and it is only possible by upgrading the whole distribution.
Agree, occasionaly I do so too. Perhaps every other year or so. I'm still running a base distro of 7.1 on some systems (1 maybe 2). Of course with all kinds of updates to critical software.
Kynaptic seems to make this selection much wider.
Kynaptic is Debians Synaptic for KDE, right? I can't say if it widens your choice a lot - personally, I've only very rarely had a need for software not found @SUSE, but our requirements could be quite different. But I do download many things directly and just build from scratch.
There is already too much to configure with the current Linux softwares, we can just use all our time to compile source code and then configure the software - we never have the time to use them. :-(
I was just responding to your initial claim that SUSE was the problem and that you had to reinstall to run some minor application. If you've had time to reinstall, you would probably have had time to recompile. And the latter is surely a lot less intrusive. /Per Jessen, Zurich
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:14:44AM +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Kynaptic is Debians Synaptic for KDE, right? I can't say if it widens your choice a lot - personally, I've only very rarely had a need for software not found @SUSE, but our requirements could be quite different. But I do download many things directly and just build from scratch.
A nice way to do this now is make an RPM (e.g. with checkinstall or any other way) and then run `createrepo /usr/src/packages/RPMS` and add that directory to you installation source. If you have several machines to install, you can either see that the above URL is reachable by whatever networkmeans you have or burn the extra RPMs to a DVD (even if you already have a DVD) with `makeSUSEdvd -a /usr/src/packages/RPMS` which then lets you install the programs at the moment of installation. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
houghi wrote:
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:14:44AM +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Kynaptic is Debians Synaptic for KDE, right? I can't say if it widens your choice a lot - personally, I've only very rarely had a need for software not found @SUSE, but our requirements could be quite different. But I do download many things directly and just build from scratch.
A nice way to do this now is make an RPM (e.g. with checkinstall or any other way) and then run `createrepo /usr/src/packages/RPMS` and add that directory to you installation source.
Hmm, yeah, that sounds interesting. Where does 'createrepo' come from? /Per Jessen, Zürich
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Per Jessen wrote:
houghi wrote:
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:14:44AM +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Kynaptic is Debians Synaptic for KDE, right? I can't say if it widens your choice a lot - personally, I've only very rarely had a need for software not found @SUSE, but our requirements could be quite different. But I do download many things directly and just build from scratch. A nice way to do this now is make an RPM (e.g. with checkinstall or any other way) and then run `createrepo /usr/src/packages/RPMS` and add that directory to you installation source.
Hmm, yeah, that sounds interesting. Where does 'createrepo' come from?
It's the standard yum tool to create RPM-MD repositories.
RPM-MD is an XML based format for RPM package repository metadata that
is the primary format for yum, but also works with YaST2 (since 10.0)
and smart (well, smart can handle all of the formats, so no surprise here).
createrepo is part of the "createrepo" RPM that's shipped with SUSE 10.0
(and 10.1, I suppose ;)).
It is extremely easy to use, as the only parameter it requires is a
directory. It will then recursively harvest for RPM files, extract their
metadata and store all of that into a "repodata" subdirectory (to the
current directory).
So, say you have a bunch of RPMs in ~/repository/RPMS, then you just
need to do this:
cd ~/repository
createrepo .
You can use a cache directory so that createrepo only parses RPM files
that are new since the last run:
createrepo --cache .cache .
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 05:09:49PM +0200, Pascal Bleser wrote:
So, say you have a bunch of RPMs in ~/repository/RPMS, then you just need to do this:
cd ~/repository createrepo .
On SUSE you have a directory /usr/src/packages/RPMS wich is where e.g. checkinstall puts its stuff. I would also not do the cd, because that requires a cd after that as well. In your example I would just do `createrepo ~/repository`
You can use a cache directory so that createrepo only parses RPM files that are new since the last run:
createrepo --cache .cache .
Nice to know. I with my 87 RPMs don't need it. You can also use it to download RPMs from anywhere or copy them from CD's or whereever, wich can be interesting if your connection is expensive. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 04:05:32PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
A nice way to do this now is make an RPM (e.g. with checkinstall or any other way) and then run `createrepo /usr/src/packages/RPMS` and add that directory to you installation source.
Hmm, yeah, that sounds interesting. Where does 'createrepo' come from?
The name comes from `create repository`. The tool comes from, I believe, Yum. http://linux.duke.edu/projects/metadata/ It only works for 10.0 and onwards, I think. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 houghi wrote:
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 04:05:32PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
A nice way to do this now is make an RPM (e.g. with checkinstall or any other way) and then run `createrepo /usr/src/packages/RPMS` and add that directory to you installation source. Hmm, yeah, that sounds interesting. Where does 'createrepo' come from?
The name comes from `create repository`. The tool comes from, I believe, Yum. http://linux.duke.edu/projects/metadata/
Correct.
It only works for 10.0 and onwards, I think.
As far as YaST2 is concerned, yes.
But it works with yum and smart, even on older SUSE versions.
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 06:06:20PM +0200, Pascal Bleser wrote:
It only works for 10.0 and onwards, I think.
As far as YaST2 is concerned, yes. But it works with yum and smart, even on older SUSE versions.
Thanks for the correction. As I have always used YaST to my full satisfaction (and problems with apt) I never realy had the need to try anything else. This is the fault of the SUSE people who make a too good product. ;-) houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 houghi wrote:
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 06:06:20PM +0200, Pascal Bleser wrote:
It only works for 10.0 and onwards, I think. As far as YaST2 is concerned, yes. But it works with yum and smart, even on older SUSE versions.
Thanks for the correction. As I have always used YaST to my full satisfaction (and problems with apt) I never realy had the need to try anything else. This is the fault of the SUSE people who make a too good product. ;-)
Umm.. well.. I have to say that the yast2 package management engine
sucks compared to smart.
smart comes at the expense of using a lot of memory though, as it loads
a lot of repository metadata to be so "smart".
Let me pick one example: smart never, ever has to prompt the user to do
the right thing, in order to resolve conflicts or dependencies.
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 11:38:14PM +0200, Pascal Bleser wrote:
Let me pick one example: smart never, ever has to prompt the user to do the right thing, in order to resolve conflicts or dependencies.
That is what I love about Linux. You have a choice. I like YaST and use that. You like Smart and use that and somebody else uses something they like. Ain't it great that there is no 'best choice for all'. ;-) houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
Pascal Bleser wrote:
smart comes at the expense of using a lot of memory though, as it loads a lot of repository metadata to be so "smart".
is that to say that the awfull time lost at each launch "refreshing the source" is even longer? I hate this.
Let me pick one example: smart never, ever has to prompt the user to do the right thing, in order to resolve conflicts or dependencies.
? I agree that at first time install no questions should be asked, but afterward I often don't answer by the default one, how can smart know what I want? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 jdd wrote:
Pascal Bleser wrote:
smart comes at the expense of using a lot of memory though, as it loads a lot of repository metadata to be so "smart".
is that to say that the awfull time lost at each launch "refreshing the source" is even longer? I hate this.
No, smart starts up faster than YaST2 here. It only has to load the (local) repository metadata. smart does not refresh sources automatically. You have to tell smart to refresh them explicitely by calling smart update (in a similar fashion to apt-get, where you also have to explicitely call apt-get update) So that's also something you can put into a cronjob, to update the channels (= repositories in smart-talk) once or twice a day. Note that the same can be achieved with YaST2, but needs some trickery, because neither YaST2 nor y2pmsh have an "update" operation that refreshes all sources: http://dev-loki.blogspot.com/2005/11/script-to-refresh-yast2-installation.ht...
Let me pick one example: smart never, ever has to prompt the user to do the right thing, in order to resolve conflicts or dependencies.
? I agree that at first time install no questions should be asked, but afterward I often don't answer by the default one, how can smart know what I want?
Because it has a very good dependency resolver and tries hard to always
do the right thing.
When you say
smart upgrade kde*
it will do its best to upgrade all kde* packages with the latest
available version, and propose operations. You can then confirm with
"commit" (similar to y2psh).
If you don't believe me, try it ;)
http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/rpm-navigation.php?cat=System/smart
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\
Pascal Bleser wrote:
If you don't believe me, try it ;)
I _do_ beleive you :-). but I'm used to try to stay with the defaults operation when possible. when changing frequently of distribution, computers, users, it's much simpler to use the standard tools. only when I really need state of the art functions I do otherwise (and then, often, compile from the sources :-) but may be the new 10.1 system will have the best of the various systems :-? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 11:20:23AM +0200, Pascal Bleser wrote:
Note that the same can be achieved with YaST2, but needs some trickery, because neither YaST2 nor y2pmsh have an "update" operation that refreshes all sources:
For wich I am gratefull. I do not want to do any update or upgrade, exept the security ones. I even disable non-suse installation repo's after use and look what packages I can 'downgrade' to suse ones when I do an installation of something from an additional installation source, so the files can once again be updates if there is a security update. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
houghi wrote:
For wich I am gratefull. I do not want to do any update or upgrade,
always confusing. we speak of update of _inst_source_, not distribution... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 houghi wrote:
On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 11:20:23AM +0200, Pascal Bleser wrote:
Note that the same can be achieved with YaST2, but needs some trickery, because neither YaST2 nor y2pmsh have an "update" operation that refreshes all sources:
For wich I am gratefull. I do not want to do any update or upgrade, except the security ones. I even disable non-suse installation repo's after use [...]
In smart and apt speak, "update" is to refresh the local state of the
repositories (like the "auto-refresh" of YaST2).
What you mean is "upgrade" ;)
Confusing terms, I agree.
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\
participants (5)
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HG -
houghi -
jdd -
Pascal Bleser -
Per Jessen