-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu July 6 2006 13:43, Andre Truter wrote:

PS: Why is this function listed in any case if it is not supported?

This is typical for GNOME development and products. If not for Ximian and Novell Gnome was in disfavor my many and was only supported (at least to any appreciable amount) by RH and a few Deb distros (that is until the likes of Umbuntu, etc). There are indie SuSE developers that have made GNOME more functional for SuSE previously. Now that Novell has stepped up devel on GNOME things have gotten better. GNOME's appeal is mostly for the look and the gtk engine. QT seems to raise issues with the suits, therefore the push for GNOME and why Novell tried to make GNOME the default (as in only supported) desktop. This caused a furor of protests and upheaval on the list, and threatened a mass exodus away from Novell SuSEn (and in that vein a lot of talk about a SuSE offshoot). As a rule, in my personal experience, GNOME is often incomplete and halfbaked. When it works it generally works well - when it works. I of course could be wrong and please correct me if I'm am (re: pdf and gnome functionality). If you're (figuratively) a sys admin and need to run Linux Desktop for l-users then GNOME has some advantages (in regards to those that formerly ran Winblows or similar). But for end users such as ourselves that aren't inclined to run Blackbox, or xfce (one of my favs) KDE is much easier to configure and generally more functional. Just MHO, Curtis. - -- Spammers Beware: Tresspassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Warning: Individuals throwing objects at the crocodiles will be asked to retrieve them! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD4DBQFErZtG7CQBg4DqqCwRApToAKDKQWd1WsW2dx9TPnGWMz+RpzoKiQCY5iRg ljj1MEBQ+24Kd9LGXMThLw== =lKZe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

On 7/7/06, Curtis Rey wrote:

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On Thu July 6 2006 13:43, Andre Truter wrote:

...

PS: Why is this function listed in any case if it is not supported?

This is typical for GNOME development and products. If not for Ximian and Novell Gnome was in disfavor my many and was only supported (at least to any appreciable amount) by RH and a few Deb distros (that is until the likes of Umbuntu, etc). [...]

OK, but if this is a flaw of the Big and Evil GNOME, then why does it work perfectly on Ubuntu for example? I note that people that prefer KDE tend to be very much against GNOME. I happen to like GNOME and I don't have a problem with KDE or any other desktop. I just like GNOME more than KDE. Why do KDE people have to attack GNOME? Does it pose a threat to KDE? I have both installed (as well as XFCE and others) on some machines and on none of those machines have GNOME eaten up my KDE or even looked skew at KDE. They seem to work together quite happilly. -- Andre Truter | Software Consultant | Registered Linux user #185282 Jabber: andre_tux@jabberafrica.org | http://www.trusoft.co.za ~ A dinosaur is a salamander designed to Mil Spec ~ -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu July 6 2006 23:53, Andre Truter wrote:

On 7/7/06, Curtis Rey wrote:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Thu July 6 2006 13:43, Andre Truter wrote:

...

PS: Why is this function listed in any case if it is not supported?

This is typical for GNOME development and products. If not for Ximian and Novell Gnome was in disfavor my many and was only supported (at least to any appreciable amount) by RH and a few Deb distros (that is until the likes of Umbuntu, etc).

[...]

OK, but if this is a flaw of the Big and Evil GNOME, then why does it work perfectly on Ubuntu for example?

I note that people that prefer KDE tend to be very much against GNOME. I happen to like GNOME and I don't have a problem with KDE or any other desktop. I just like GNOME more than KDE. Why do KDE people have to attack GNOME? Does it pose a threat to KDE? I have both installed (as well as XFCE and others) on some machines and on none of those machines have GNOME eaten up my KDE or even looked skew at KDE. They seem to work together quite happilly.

In some respects GNOME does indeed pose a threat to KDE for many. It seems to revolve around issues between GTK and QT and the suits - licensing IIRC. Years ago there was an announcement at one of the major Linux conventions that GNOME was the favored desktop. The manner in which this came about seemed to be political (in terms of business politics, not congressional or presidential). Furthermore, this was early in the development of both desktops so one might argue that it was more or less a level playing field. But KDEdevelopment (at the time) was more robust and cogent. GNOME seemed to stumble. Also the switch from sawfish to metacity further alienated many. GNOME was viewed as having dropped the ball and to be relying on connections in the corporate sector over that of the developers sector. Now I agree that GNOME is fine for those that use it and this is what Linux/FOSS is all about - choice. However, take the example of Novell announcing GNOME as the default desktop. This was especially erksum in light of the fact that the overwhelming majority of SuSE users use and work with KDE. So when the announcement came out from Novell the SuSE community screamed long and loudly. Once again politics at the level of the suits with disregard to the user community. Now one could rightly argue GNOME is a vastly a more political environment (similar to the manner of XFree86 - a political mess and it shows in the code [xfree86]). On the otherside, Novell did buy Ximian so the push to GNOME makes sense to a point. Why would Novell by Ximian and then not implement it's new acquisition? But De Icazza (spelling?) said himself that GNOME has caused angst among certain people and entities. Case in point was a Brazilian business started with GNOME yet became frustrated and switched to KDE. There's bad blood between KDE and GNOME because GNOME gets all the suits to support it while falling down on the devel and innovational front and KDE strives to continue to innovate yet gets shunned (more or less) by the corporate and press sectors - marketing seems to be one of GNOMEs strong suits. This problem has prompted many observers to call for a unified desktop to end the "fracture" in this arena. This has yet to happen and likely won't since it is antethecal to FOSS and choice by many. I personally find the devs at GNOME to be similar to those at XFree86 - arrogant and elitist. Pair this with caterring to the suits and perhaps one might see where the angst in the KDE community may come from. Once again. SuSE and GNOME have been fringe to each other for some time now - at least until Novell bought SuSE and Ximian. KDE users and devs feel they are often taking a back seat to GNOME. This angers many, especially since KDE development seems to be more stable and predictable than that of GNOME - yet GNOME gets all the limelight. Just MHO, Curtis. - -- Spammers Beware: Tresspassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Warning: Individuals throwing objects at the crocodiles will be asked to retrieve them! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFErqd87CQBg4DqqCwRAh9kAJ0XX584vgl/oeMfYswwJN0sn2SKawCgx2sx K2wZNhT1uK5Z3X5yQwCmau8= =LPvX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

On Friday 07 July 2006 13:27, Curtis Rey wrote:

Now I agree that GNOME is fine for those that use it and this is what Linux/FOSS is all about - choice. Yes. I prefer KDE over GNOME for the reasons previously listed, however, I do not wish to see GNOME "vanish," nor do I really want to see a unified desktop. Call it the Pepsi/Coke, Chevy/Ford thing. Everything about it including the flame wars, competition, egos, resentment, pride, glory, limelight, simplicity, power, and innovation--- make for a better product from which to choose. They (KDE and GNOME) play off of each other--sharpen each other (if you will) like steel on steel--creating a better experience for everyone regardless of their choice. So, I'm not a GNOME basher, I just prefer KDE. At this point in time it seems more stable, and for my open choice that's important.

-- Kind regards, Mark H. Harris <>< harrismh777@earthlink.net -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com