houghi wrote:

What additional traffic? Instead of downloading the 1 DVD, people download the 6CDs. That is about the same size, I would think.

I remember a discussion here saying the eberhart server had 12Gb ram and that all must fit in it to have reasonable download speed may be the CD's already fill this jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

On 5/13/06, houghi wrote:

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 10:47:48AM +0200, Christoph Thiel wrote:

...

On Sat, 13 May 2006, houghi wrote:

...

What is the reason the DVD is not yet available? I am trying to think of a reason, but I can't find one.

Do you think any of our mirrors would have been able to handle the addiontal traffic for the DVDs? I don't think so!

What additional traffic? Instead of downloading the 1 DVD, people download the 6CDs. That is about the same size, I would think.

Agree with your houghi.... People generally only download one version... not both. I've created the DVD from as a result for those that want it and have hosted it on linuxtracker.org -- after many friends/colleagues were wanting the DVD instead of the CDs. See my other Email on the topic. ;-) -- Matt Bottrell mbottrell@gmail.com

From an experienced users point of view this might be the case, but syncing another 4-5 GB per architecture to the mirrors prior to releasing would have been insane.

Why not just make it available via BitTorrent then? That at least gives the user the option -- and also reduces the load on the mirrors. After say 1-2 weeks... publish the DVD images via mirrors. -- Matt Bottrell mbottrell@gmail.com

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 11:30:38AM +0200, Marcus Rueckert wrote:

really smart people might only download CD1 and install the rest from the net. even for kde you only need 3CDs.

Why not use the boot.iso? And that would still be possible to do. It is not that because there is a DVD iso that you can not just download the boot.iso and use that.

p.s.: did you know that patience is an important skill?

I don't need to be patient, I use makeSUSEdvd. :-) houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

Martin Schlander wrote:

On Saturday 13 May 2006 11:19, houghi wrote:

...

What additional traffic? Instead of downloading the 1 DVD, people download the 6CDs. That is about the same size, I would think.

I believe that a lot of people do netinstall or only download cd1-3 this way. Guess the syncing of the mirrors with three dvds would mean a lot of traffic in it self too.

now yes, but during the server sync, inst-source is not avilable jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 01:36:12PM +0200, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

Hi,

On Sat, 13 May 2006, houghi wrote:

...

What is the reason the DVD is not yet available? I am trying to think of a reason, but I can't find one.

The mirrors are hiding it, because they don't want that big image to disturb the cache hits while delivering the CDs.

OK. Thanks. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 02:11:38PM +0200, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

Hi,

On Sat, 13 May 2006, houghi wrote:

...

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 01:36:12PM +0200, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

...

On Sat, 13 May 2006, houghi wrote:

...

...

...

What is the reason the DVD is not yet available? I am trying to think of a reason, but I can't find one.

The mirrors are hiding it, because they don't want that big image to disturb the cache hits while delivering the CDs.

OK. Thanks.

It was a joke.

So then what is the real reason? houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Sat, 13 May 2006, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote: [...]

No DVD yet, and most mirrors are happy about that.

If there is a single mirror that has too much unused bandwidth, contact me -- we can very simply change that through download.openSUSE.org! ;) Regards Christoph

On Sat, 13 May 2006, Matt Bottrell wrote:

Why not list the OSS DVDs I made using makeSUSEdvd and have them available via BitTorrent?

We will soon publish the official DVDs via BT and .jigdo Files -- it might take until Monday, but maybe we can get them up even earlier. Regards Christoph

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 10:54:33PM +1000, Matt Bottrell wrote:

Would be interesting to see how many users currently suck down the CD images to turn around just to create the DVD.

As 10.1 needs 0.30 of makeSUSEdvd, the number at this moment is: 3063 http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=146800 houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 02:18:28PM -0400, Kenneth Schneider wrote:

On Sat, 2006-05-13 at 15:11 +0200, houghi wrote:

...

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 10:54:33PM +1000, Matt Bottrell wrote:

...

Would be interesting to see how many users currently suck down the CD images to turn around just to create the DVD.

As 10.1 needs 0.30 of makeSUSEdvd, the number at this moment is: 3063 http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=146800

houghi

And what was the version of hte package description program?

Sorry? The "hte package description program"? What do you mean by that? houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Sun, May 14, 2006 at 10:13:56AM -0400, Kenneth Schneider wrote:

Sorry. create_package_descr is what I was looking for. Found it on SF along with the latest makeSUSEdvd. By the way, is the ARCHIVES.gz file only supposed to show what is in the last iso opened for making the dvd iso?

It is supposed to have all the info on the ISOs. I could perhaps in a future edition unpack the ARCHIVES.gz files, add them together and then gz them again. That would however need yet another program to be available and I like as little programs used as possible. So it is unlikely I will include it. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 04:23:12PM +0300, HG wrote:

Hello!

Getting DVD's out at different time is ok. And putting them on only on BT in the beginning is also fine.

I have no problems with it. I am just curious.

I'd also like to add that there are no problems with DL disks either! There was a note somwhere that the reason why the DVD does not contain everything that the retail DVD has is because the retail is DL. To me this is a "reason" that really has nothing to do with the reality.

Size. The Boxed version is dual layer. It contains all the rest that is not on the CDs and that is on the FTP site.

...

Would be interesting to see how many users currently suck down the CD images to turn around just to create the DVD.

Personally, I'm still waiting to hear how this turns out (basically it seems that the package management is so broken that I will say out).

I have seen no major problems with makeSUSEdvd, just some minor ones.

But I have 3 types of installations that I do 1) DVD (if DVD drive available) 2) the mini-CD+Network 3) floppy + network (I still need these) I could not care too much about the "full" CD's... and for network, I generally use locally mounted DVD :-)

CD1 + network could be also an option, as you then have already a functional Linux that you can configure before you go online and do the rest of the installation. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Sat, 13 May 2006, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

...

...

I'd also like to add that there are no problems with DL disks either! There was a note somwhere that the reason why the DVD does not contain everything that the retail DVD has is because the retail is DL. To me this is a "reason" that really has nothing to do with the reality.

Size. The Boxed version is dual layer. It contains all the rest that is not on the CDs and that is on the FTP site.

By far not. inst-source is 33 GB.

It's 33 GB, because it's no only dual-arch (like the DVD9 on the box), but tri-arch (x86, x86_64, ppc). In additon to that, the FTP Trees contain -debuginfo packages and some -devel packages, that didn't fit onto the DVD9. Regards Christoph

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 04:13:40PM +0200, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

Hi,

On Sat, 13 May 2006, Christoph Thiel wrote:

...

On Sat, 13 May 2006, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

...

...

...

...

I'd also like to add that there are no problems with DL disks either! There was a note somwhere that the reason why the DVD does not contain everything that the retail DVD has is because the retail is DL. To me this is a "reason" that really has nothing to do with the reality.

Size. The Boxed version is dual layer. It contains all the rest that is not on the CDs and that is on the FTP site.

By far not. inst-source is 33 GB.

It's 33 GB, because it's no only dual-arch (like the DVD9 on the box), but tri-arch (x86, x86_64, ppc). In additon to that, the FTP Trees contain -debuginfo packages and some -devel packages, that didn't fit onto the DVD9.

You say it - "That didn't fit".

OK, I ment to say programs that you can install and run. Or are there programs that are on FTP and not on the DVD-9? I understood that all programs are on the DVD-9. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Sat, 13 May 2006, Christoph Thiel wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006, houghi wrote:

...

...

You say it - "That didn't fit".

OK, I ment to say programs that you can install and run. Or are there programs that are on FTP and not on the DVD-9? I understood that all programs are on the DVD-9.

No, there is a number of packages (programs), that are only in the FTP tree. I'll publish a list soon -- stay tuned.

Attached you find the diff between the DVD9 (box) and the FTP tree. I'v removed all -debuginfo, -32bit, -64bit, -devel packages from the diff, so it's more readable. You'll notice that there are very few packages, that are only on the DVD9 and neither in the FTP tree nor the Addon CDs. Regards Christoph

houghi schrieb:

hugin: 0.5-19 ->

As far as I can see these are all available for download. I asume this is due to licencing that they are not available on FTP.

This one for sure is GPL (and the project founder would have told me on his wedding on Sunday, if he changed the license *g*). The problem could be the pano-libs of Mr. Dersch, which hugin is using. They are patent-attacked by a lot of companies. Maybe Novell wanted to avoid trouble in the USA. In Germany at least software patents are not yet legalised. Ciao Siegbert

Hi! On 5/13/06, houghi wrote:

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 04:23:12PM +0300, HG wrote:

...

I'd also like to add that there are no problems with DL disks either!

Size. The Boxed version is dual layer. It contains all the rest that is not on the CDs and that is on the FTP site.

You missed the point. My point is that we have been able to burn DL DVD's for long now. If it can fit on DL DVD, then it should fit on DL DVD...? -- HG.

Marcus Meissner wrote:

The number of people having DL DVD burners is still pretty low ;)

all the writers more than one year old are dual layer, but the dvd itself is very expensive. however, having the sources on a second dvd is not a problem. Houghi, is makeSUSEdvd able to make two dvd from a Double Layer one? time ago I was unable to do this (and still have a bootable single dvd) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 07:40:10PM +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 08:35:58PM +0300, HG wrote:

...

Hi!

On 5/13/06, houghi wrote:

...

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 04:23:12PM +0300, HG wrote:

...

...

I'd also like to add that there are no problems with DL disks either!

...

Size. The Boxed version is dual layer. It contains all the rest that is not on the CDs and that is on the FTP site.

You missed the point. My point is that we have been able to burn DL DVD's for long now. If it can fit on DL DVD, then it should fit on DL DVD...?

The number of people having DL DVD burners is still pretty low ;)

Wait, now I get it. DL stands for Dual Layer, not for DownLoad. I was looking at DL versus Boxed, or Download versus Boxed, not Dual Layer versus Dual Layer. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 08:35:58PM +0300, HG wrote:

Hi!

On 5/13/06, houghi wrote:

...

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 04:23:12PM +0300, HG wrote:

...

...

I'd also like to add that there are no problems with DL disks either!

...

Size. The Boxed version is dual layer. It contains all the rest that is not on the CDs and that is on the FTP site.

You missed the point. My point is that we have been able to burn DL DVD's for long now. If it can fit on DL DVD, then it should fit on DL DVD...?

Now you lost me. No idea what you are talking about, now. I thought you were asking why the retail DVD is not the same as the download DVD. The answer to that is size. The retail is a sual layer and the download is single layer. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 04:25:02PM +0200, jdd wrote:

is the houghis script dvd identical to the official one? (I mean the 5 cd one)

No. The dates are different. The MD5SUMs are different. The signature is different and those are just the things that I think of.

or said elsewhere is there a mean to have with makeSUSEdvd a dvd identical to the one on line? if so I could make it available through botorrent without donwloading it first

There have already been some torrent URL's posted. Best use those. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 02:22:02PM +0200, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:

...

...

...

...

...

What is the reason the DVD is not yet available? <snip> No DVD yet, and most mirrors are happy about that.

So the reason there is no DVD available is beause there is no DVD available. :-/ houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau

So the reason there is no DVD available is beause there is no DVD available. :-/

There is no spoon! ;-) Ideally I wish all was released via BitTorrent say 1 week earlier (DVD and CD images), and it gives the mirrors time to prepare. Those in a rush can use BT, those that can then wait can use the mirrors. Matt Bottrell mbottrell@gmail.com

Hi, On Sat, 13 May 2006, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

houghi writes:

...

What is the reason the DVD is not yet available? I am trying to think of a reason, but I can't find one.

Besides the reasons that Christoph mentioned, we also did not have the DVD ready and tested before wednesday - so couldn't push them out to our mirrors for thursday,

So this time it was only a "good luck" for the mirrors... Please let it be a "strategy" next time. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)