linux on the desktop: (was: Re: samba)
On Friday 02 March 2001 13:42, you wrote:
Julia has no reason to become a technically proficient computer user, as much as that would help her. She has a life. Linux is no making the PROMISE that she can user her computer with all the ease that WinXX offers. Except for her samba problem that may be true, but if she can't get samba to work then Linux is not the OS for here.
my 2 eurocents: i'm using KDE2.1 for two days now, and the way i see it is this: with KDE2, _using_ (and i say _using_) a computer can be as easy as using a windows-computer. setting up a computer, configuring it and maintaining it is something else entirely. with linux, but also with windows. the university i work at uses windows, but they still have a tech support team, because no matter how user-friendly windows is supposed to be, most people here are not able to or even willing to configure and maintain their setup. so, for any company that can afford a tech support or systems administrator, i'd say: check out if linux can work for you. even if you run windows, you'll need some expert to help out if your employees run into trouble. (which they undoubtedly will.) for any home user not willing to dive into samba (and similar) setup files, buy a mac... joost ===== Joost Kremers (Mr.) University of Nijmegen - The Netherlands Department of Languages and Cultures of the Middle-East PO Box 9103 6500 HD Nijmegen - The Netherlands phone: +31 24 3612996 fax: +31 24 3611972 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Thank you for all your responses to my grumpy bit of self indulgence. It was great to realise that I am not alone in wanting a more user friendly approach. I personally don't have a problem with becoming a more proficient computer user in order to use linux - but I don't think I should need to become an expert in order to do pretty basic stuff. I like the fact that if I had more time, I could use all the bells and whistles available in Linux. As it is, I have a professional job and a family, which leaves me about 2 hours a day where I can do stuff which doesn't relate to either. There are some days when I'm happy to spend my 2 hours glued to the PC screen. Setting up linux initially was a lot of fun and very satisfying, the problems I had were fairly easily solved and each time I felt I had gained valuable insight into how Linux works. The point where I realised I had spent two days when I would have been working trying to sort out samba, then every evening for a week made me think I had to either abandon my partner, my toddler and my job or throw in the towel with samba until I have more time. I have been using computers for a while - I started at school with a commodore pet (not alot of GUIs around then) and worked my way through the Apple II +, used Sun workstations at University and was appalled by the first version of Windows I saw, so it's not the comand line stuff or modifying config files that cause me stress. I think the problem is in the documentation - partly because it's written by experts who don't realise how little some people know, and partly because some is obviously translated and a little grammatically confusing. The thing that became most apparent in all this is that there is some hostility towards people, like me, who just want to use the damn thing. I feel as if I need to justify my computer experience (why?) and let you all know I built my own PC and write little games in Visual Basic for my toddler - as if by saying ' look, I do work hard' justifys the fact that I want help with a problem. We are in danger of being unwelcoming to people who have little time for computers - either because their lives are so exciting and full of chandelier swinging parties, or just because when they've got in from work, cooked dinner, helped with homework, done the dishes and put the kids to bed they don't want to spend hours studying. If we only want people to use linux if they have enough time to really understand it to use it, then this needs to be made apparent. I don't think that is the case though. Anyway, after several of your very kind and encouraging responses, I haven't given up on Samba completely. I'll give it another try over the weekend, and if I don't have any luck I'll send my config file to the list for comment. I am beginning to think that maybe there's a problem with the way my NIC is set up as I'm sure I've done everything right with samba. If I don't get it sorted this week, I'll leave it until I have more time, and in the meantime use linux for stuff that works well for me and use W98 for the rest. I have to use W98 for work at the moment anyway, until Quark Express is ported to linux, which I expect will be fairly soon as the new Mac OS is Unix based, and Quark is primarily aimed at Mac users. At which point, if I've got Samba working I can abandon W98 completely. Julia -- Julia Maddocks O O O O O O O O O \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ Playwork and Childcare Consultant phone: 01865 247499 mobile: 07803 044986
On Friday 02 March 2001 12:46, Julia Maddocks wrote:
At which point, if I've got Samba working I can abandon W98 completely.
-- Julia Maddocks
You go, girl!!! I began by dual booting Linux with Win95 for two years. Then, about sisteen months ago I noticed that I couldn't remember when I had last booted into Win95. Prior to that epiphony, I downloaded MoneyDance, the last pgm I needed to replace my Win95 functionality. So, on Jan 1, 2000, I started the new year by scrubbing Win95 off my PC. I've been free of M$ and license fees every since and havn't missed it at all. I purchased my PC on Dec 27, 1996 and from that date to March 5, 1997 I had to reinstall Win95 FIVE times. In disgust I started looking for an alternative OS, thinking I might return to OS/2. Then I found Linux. In September 1997 and replace RH5.1 with SuSE 5.3. My last OS crash was in October of 1997, when a C++ program I was tinkering with locked up my box, forcing me to cycle power. Except for lightening storms and upgrades of SuSE my box has never been off nor has it crashed. Ya gotta respect performance like that! JLK
Julia Maddocks wrote:
Thank you for all your responses to my grumpy bit of self indulgence.
It was great to realise that I am not alone in wanting a more user friendly approach.
I personally don't have a problem with becoming a more proficient computer user in order to use linux - but I don't think I should need to become an expert in order to do pretty basic stuff. I like the fact that if I had more time, I could use all the bells and whistles available in Linux. As it is, I have a professional job and a family, which leaves me about 2 hours a day where I can do stuff which doesn't relate to either. There are some days when I'm happy to spend my 2 hours glued to the PC screen.
Yes. first things first. I think these arguments are understandable.
Setting up linux initially was a lot of fun and very satisfying, the problems I had were fairly easily solved and each time I felt I had gained valuable insight into how Linux works. The point where I realised I had spent two days when I would have been working trying to sort out samba, then every evening for a week made me think I had to either abandon my partner, my toddler and my job or throw in the towel with samba until I have more time.
Even that is sensible in some way. I tried abot 9(!) month to connect an old Irix 5.3 Workstation to my net -easy- but the tricky bit was to route into the internet as it worked with different other machines. This beast didn't route out of my net. finally, I needed to give an additional parameter to the route command to make it a gateway entry. The manual page wasn't very helpful... nine month for a single "1" to add...
I have been using computers for a while - I started at school with a commodore pet (not alot of GUIs around then) and worked my way through the Apple II +, used Sun workstations at University and was appalled by the first version of Windows I saw, so it's not the comand line stuff or modifying config files that cause me stress. I think the problem is in the documentation - partly because it's written by experts who don't realise how little some people know, and partly because some is obviously translated and a little grammatically confusing.
TRS80 at school, Apple II (one of the best machines I ever used) at work between 1983 and 1988, later PC's. The first versions of windows were capable of showing a clock on the screen... Win 3.0 / 3.1 took my attention then.
The thing that became most apparent in all this is that there is some hostility towards people, like me, who just want to use the damn thing. I feel as if I need to justify my computer experience (why?) and let you all know I built my own PC and write little games in Visual Basic for my toddler - as if by saying ' look, I do work hard' justifys the fact that I want help with a problem.
Sometimes it is difficult to judge people knowledge from the postings, to write an *understandable* answer.
We are in danger of being unwelcoming to people who have little time for computers - either because their lives are so exciting and full of chandelier swinging parties, or just because when they've got in from work, cooked dinner, helped with homework, done the dishes and put the kids to bed they don't want to spend hours studying. If we only want people to use linux if they have enough time to really understand it to use it, then this needs to be made apparent. I don't think that is the case though.
;-( well.... geeks expect to see geeks everywhere I suppose.
Anyway, after several of your very kind and encouraging responses, I haven't given up on Samba completely. I'll give it another try over the weekend, and if I don't have any luck I'll send my config file to the list for comment. I am beginning to think that maybe there's a problem with the way my NIC is set up as I'm sure I've done everything right with samba.
Yes. Do that, post your smb.conf. It can be your setup of your NIC card as well. You *must* be able to use ping between the linux machine and windows machine(s) both ways. If that works, networking is all right and the it is a smaba issue. If it is a samba issue, it is most likely encrypted / nonencrypted passwords.
If I don't get it sorted this week, I'll leave it until I have more time, and in the meantime use linux for stuff that works well for me and use W98 for the rest. I have to use W98 for work at the moment anyway, until Quark Express is ported to linux, which I expect will be fairly soon as the new Mac OS is Unix based, and Quark is primarily aimed at Mac users. At which point, if I've got Samba working I can abandon W98 completely.
Hopefully. Adobe cut it's Framemaker developement due to the "less response" ("= I want to buy it! sell me 100 copys for my company please") from the linux community.
Julia
Juergen -- =========================================== __ _ Juergen Braukmann juergen.braukmann@gmx.de| -o)/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Tel: 0201-743648 dk4jb@db0qs.#nrw.deu.eu | /\\ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / ===========================================_\_v __/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\
participants (4)
-
Jerry Kreps -
Joost Kremers -
juergen.braukmann＠ruhr-west.de -
Julia Maddocks