[opensuse] Re: [opensuse-factory] Let's keep acroread for pure reasons of usability.
On 7 November 2013 22:12, Hans Witvliet <suse@a-domani.nl> wrote:
So, for some simple pdf okular & Co are apparently good enough.
But as Carlos wrote, it isn't working for more complicated ones. Counting options.... A) Obviously keeping acroread forever isn't an option B) keeping it for now is just postponing the inevitable C) telling people, that if they want, they can install an ancient version of acroread is just as bad as A)
D) in the beginning of this thread, someone suggested running a recent version of acroread under wine. -> When doing such thing, doesn't that involve any security risks? <- -> What is the chance of providing this for the "default end-user" <- -> Would it be allowed (if even possible) to create such a nested&foreign package <-
E) Worst case scenario, having to install W7, just for viewing/filling PDF's
Any other options????
F) All the distros get together and fund a project to improve poppler to the point where it meets the required needs. Seriously, this will be an issue for all distros, and waiting on volunteer developers to find enough time to solve the really hard problems involved will never get you there. It's a key problem that needs investment and at least one of the distros needs to step up and fund a solution. Same for printing. John. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/08/2013 03:50 AM, John Layt wrote:
On 7 November 2013 22:12, Hans Witvliet <suse@a-domani.nl> wrote:
So, for some simple pdf okular & Co are apparently good enough.
But as Carlos wrote, it isn't working for more complicated ones. Counting options.... A) Obviously keeping acroread forever isn't an option B) keeping it for now is just postponing the inevitable C) telling people, that if they want, they can install an ancient version of acroread is just as bad as A)
D) in the beginning of this thread, someone suggested running a recent version of acroread under wine. -> When doing such thing, doesn't that involve any security risks? <- -> What is the chance of providing this for the "default end-user" <- -> Would it be allowed (if even possible) to create such a nested&foreign package <-
E) Worst case scenario, having to install W7, just for viewing/filling PDF's
Any other options???? F) All the distros get together and fund a project to improve poppler to the point where it meets the required needs.
Seriously, this will be an issue for all distros, and waiting on volunteer developers to find enough time to solve the really hard problems involved will never get you there. It's a key problem that needs investment and at least one of the distros needs to step up and fund a solution. Same for printing.
John. Have I missed something ? What is supposed to happen with acroread ?
BECAUSE - I refuse to use anything else !!!!!!!!!!! Duaine -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ - Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding (314) 838-5587 / dahechler@att.net / www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com Home & Business user of Linux - 13 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Duaine Hechler wrote:
On 11/08/2013 03:50 AM, John Layt wrote: Have I missed something ? What is supposed to happen with acroread ?
Adobe is dropping support for Linux, which means we/openSUSE has removed it from 13.1. I started the thread referred to, because I think we ought to keep acroread in, but marked as deprecated/unsupported.
BECAUSE - I refuse to use anything else !!!!!!!!!!!
The alternatives are not bad, but nor are they complete. Okular doesn't have a tabbed viewer for instance, but there are also key pdf features missing. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.8°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 08 of November 2013 16:30:04 Per Jessen wrote:
The alternatives are not bad, but nor are they complete. Okular doesn't have a tabbed viewer for instance
Isn't tabbing windows via kwin an alternative? Regards, Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
auxsvr@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday 08 of November 2013 16:30:04 Per Jessen wrote:
The alternatives are not bad, but nor are they complete. Okular doesn't have a tabbed viewer for instance
Isn't tabbing windows via kwin an alternative?
Yes it is, I just prefer the in-window tabs. Anyway, PDF with forms and signed PDFs are an issue, as is printing (major issue). -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.5°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Per Jessen wrote:
auxsvr@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday 08 of November 2013 16:30:04 Per Jessen wrote:
The alternatives are not bad, but nor are they complete. Okular doesn't have a tabbed viewer for instance
Isn't tabbing windows via kwin an alternative?
Yes it is, I just prefer the in-window tabs. Anyway, PDF with forms and signed PDFs are an issue, as is printing (major issue).
For instance, I can't change the printer paper drawer, format, size and type with Okular. That's simply unusable. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.8°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Per Jessen wrote:
Per Jessen wrote:
auxsvr@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday 08 of November 2013 16:30:04 Per Jessen wrote:
The alternatives are not bad, but nor are they complete. Okular doesn't have a tabbed viewer for instance
Isn't tabbing windows via kwin an alternative?
Yes it is, I just prefer the in-window tabs. Anyway, PDF with forms and signed PDFs are an issue, as is printing (major issue).
For instance, I can't change the printer paper drawer, format, size and type with Okular. That's simply unusable.
Correction, just need to overcome the learning curve :-) Plz ignore the above. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.3°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 5:46 PM, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
...
Yes it is, I just prefer the in-window tabs. Anyway, PDF with forms and signed PDFs are an issue, as is printing (major issue).
Another issue is with bi-directional documents. Okular and KPDF fail searching in Hebrew documents, while Acroread works fine. (I've never investigated it, just switched back to Acroread, so did not file bug report, but it looks like Okular/KPDF use "Visual" ordering instead of "Logical", if I remember the terminology correctly.). -- Mark Goldstein -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/08/2013 10:46 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
auxsvr@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday 08 of November 2013 16:30:04 Per Jessen wrote:
The alternatives are not bad, but nor are they complete. Okular doesn't have a tabbed viewer for instance
Isn't tabbing windows via kwin an alternative?
Yes it is, I just prefer the in-window tabs. Anyway, PDF with forms and signed PDFs are an issue, as is printing (major issue).
If Adobe Reader becomes unavailable to Linux, we'll be forced to use Windows. Nothing else is completely capable of decoding all of the possible PDFs. Try filling out a US Passport app with one of the "home-brew" ones. --dm -- Blessed are the peacemakers..for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M.Greeley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hallo Per Jessen, op 08-11-13 16:46 schreef je:
auxsvr@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday 08 of November 2013 16:30:04 Per Jessen wrote:
The alternatives are not bad, but nor are they complete. Okular doesn't have a tabbed viewer for instance
Isn't tabbing windows via kwin an alternative?
Yes it is, I just prefer the in-window tabs. Anyway, PDF with forms and signed PDFs are an issue, as is printing (major issue).
And invoices without amounts... http://susepaste.org/33757913 -- Harrie Baken | Tekstbureau TekstBaken Copy-editing - proofreading - seo http://www.tekstbaken.nl/ Registered Linux user #366560 | openSUSE 12.3 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, On Fri, 08 Nov 2013, Harrie Baken wrote:
And invoices without amounts... http://susepaste.org/33757913
Most likely due to (a) missing font(s). Does ocular have a "log"? -dnh -- All generalisations are dangerous, including this one. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hallo David, op 09-11-13 02:03 schreef je:
Hello,
On Fri, 08 Nov 2013, Harrie Baken wrote:
And invoices without amounts... http://susepaste.org/33757913
Most likely due to (a) missing font(s). Does ocular have a "log"?
(I couldn't find an Okular log.) I didn't think of a missing font, because they are embedded. I thought. http://susepaste.org/282443 shows the fonts Okular sees and uses. http://susepaste.org/39514377 shows the fonts acroread sees (and apparently uses). So acroread sees a font which Okular ignores: KIX-Barcode-Regular. I googled around and it appears to be a font derived by the Dutch Post from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RM4SCC of the UK mail. But... all the KIX "font" files I found on the web, only have bars inside, no real fonts. :( Harrie -- Harrie Baken | Tekstbureau TekstBaken Copy-editing - proofreading - seo http://www.tekstbaken.nl/ Registered Linux user #366560 | openSUSE 12.3 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2013-11-09 at 23:15 +0100, Harrie Baken wrote:
I didn't think of a missing font, because they are embedded. I thought.
That's right, there can not be missing fonts. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ+8J4ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WhggCfezMu97Y+PVePVMDdBQGkpfW+ Q3sAn0796Rp785VWQ9qZspJvRjo9Gcba =NQt+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting Per Jessen <per@computer.org>:
Duaine Hechler wrote:
On 11/08/2013 03:50 AM, John Layt wrote: Have I missed something ? What is supposed to happen with acroread ?
Adobe is dropping support for Linux, which means we/openSUSE has removed it from 13.1. I started the thread referred to, because I think we ought to keep acroread in, but marked as deprecated/unsupported.
BECAUSE - I refuse to use anything else !!!!!!!!!!!
The alternatives are not bad, but nor are they complete. Okular doesn't have a tabbed viewer for instance, but there are also key pdf features missing.
The key feature for me missing from Okular is being able to copy and paste text into other applications. I want to see a document with text, not an image of a document. Jeffrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday, November 08, 2013 04:45:43 PM Jeffrey L. Taylor wrote:
Quoting Per Jessen <per@computer.org>:
Duaine Hechler wrote:
On 11/08/2013 03:50 AM, John Layt wrote: Have I missed something ? What is supposed to happen with acroread ?
Adobe is dropping support for Linux, which means we/openSUSE has removed it from 13.1. I started the thread referred to, because I think we ought to keep acroread in, but marked as deprecated/unsupported.
BECAUSE - I refuse to use anything else !!!!!!!!!!!
The alternatives are not bad, but nor are they complete. Okular doesn't have a tabbed viewer for instance, but there are also key pdf features missing.
The key feature for me missing from Okular is being able to copy and paste text into other applications. I want to see a document with text, not an image of a document.
Jeffrey
Do you mean you are not able to activate the "Text Selection" Tool on Okular by pressing Cntrl+4 then highlight the text or paragraph; and then, Cntrl+C from the text on Okular and Cntrl+V on i.e. LibreOffice? If it is so. Please, check your settings or file a bug. Regards, -- Ricardo Chung | Panama Member openSUSE Projects -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting Ricardo Chung <ricardo.a.chung@gmail.com>:
On Friday, November 08, 2013 04:45:43 PM Jeffrey L. Taylor wrote:
Quoting Per Jessen <per@computer.org>:
Duaine Hechler wrote:
On 11/08/2013 03:50 AM, John Layt wrote: Have I missed something ? What is supposed to happen with acroread ?
Adobe is dropping support for Linux, which means we/openSUSE has removed it from 13.1. I started the thread referred to, because I think we ought to keep acroread in, but marked as deprecated/unsupported.
BECAUSE - I refuse to use anything else !!!!!!!!!!!
The alternatives are not bad, but nor are they complete. Okular doesn't have a tabbed viewer for instance, but there are also key pdf features missing.
The key feature for me missing from Okular is being able to copy and paste text into other applications. I want to see a document with text, not an image of a document.
Jeffrey
Do you mean you are not able to activate the "Text Selection" Tool on Okular by pressing Cntrl+4 then highlight the text or paragraph; and then, Cntrl+C from the text on Okular and Cntrl+V on i.e. LibreOffice?
No, I mean I can't highlight a line of text with the left button of the mouse and paste it with the middle button of the mouse. The above reminds me of Windows. I'll try the above to check for bugs, but it's so cumbersome I probably won't use it. Jeffrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/09/2013 04:47 AM, Jeffrey L. Taylor wrote:
Quoting Ricardo Chung <ricardo.a.chung@gmail.com>:
On Friday, November 08, 2013 04:45:43 PM Jeffrey L. Taylor wrote:
Do you mean you are not able to activate the "Text Selection" Tool on Okular by pressing Cntrl+4 then highlight the text or paragraph; and then, Cntrl+C from the text on Okular and Cntrl+V on i.e. LibreOffice?
No, I mean I can't highlight a line of text with the left button of the mouse and paste it with the middle button of the mouse. The above reminds me of Windows.
I'll try the above to check for bugs, but it's so cumbersome I probably won't use it.
Jeffrey
You can use the mouse instead of CTRL-c and CTRL-v. Your issue is rather, okular is in "rectangle selection mode" instead of test selection mode. You can switch to text selection mode either by pressing the selection button in the upper right for at least a second and you get a list of selection modes to choose one (this _is_ a bit strange / unexpected / surprising) _OR_ press CTRL-4. I don't know of a way to configure text selection mode as default, though. Best regards Robert -- Robert Klein UNIX Operations, Max Planck-Institut für Polymerforschung Ackermannweg 10 55218 Mainz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting Robert Klein <kleinrob@mpip-mainz.mpg.de>:
On 11/09/2013 04:47 AM, Jeffrey L. Taylor wrote:
Quoting Ricardo Chung <ricardo.a.chung@gmail.com>:
On Friday, November 08, 2013 04:45:43 PM Jeffrey L. Taylor wrote:
Do you mean you are not able to activate the "Text Selection" Tool on Okular by pressing Cntrl+4 then highlight the text or paragraph; and then, Cntrl+C from the text on Okular and Cntrl+V on i.e. LibreOffice?
No, I mean I can't highlight a line of text with the left button of the mouse and paste it with the middle button of the mouse. The above reminds me of Windows.
I'll try the above to check for bugs, but it's so cumbersome I probably won't use it.
Jeffrey
You can use the mouse instead of CTRL-c and CTRL-v. Your issue is rather, okular is in "rectangle selection mode" instead of test selection mode. You can switch to text selection mode either by pressing the selection button in the upper right for at least a second and you get a list of selection modes to choose one (this _is_ a bit strange / unexpected / surprising) _OR_ press CTRL-4.
Okay, this sounds a less bothersome. Thanks, Jeffrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 9 November 2013 11:26, Robert Klein <kleinrob@mpip-mainz.mpg.de> wrote:
You can use the mouse instead of CTRL-c and CTRL-v. Your issue is rather, okular is in "rectangle selection mode" instead of test selection mode. You can switch to text selection mode either by pressing the selection button in the upper right for at least a second and you get a list of selection modes to choose one (this _is_ a bit strange / unexpected / surprising) _OR_ press CTRL-4.
I don't know of a way to configure text selection mode as default, though.
With the default "Selection Tool" mode (ctrl-3) if I click-drag-release a rectangle around some text a pop-up appears that says: Text (xx characters) - Copy to Clipboard - Search for > [with sub-menu for Google, etc] Image (xx by yy pixels) - Copy to Clipboard - Save to file... You only need to change to Text Selection if you want the caret selection mode to highlight words that may not neatly fall in the selection rectangle. You can also choose Table Selection Mode for copying tables. Remember also that some PDF's are only images of text so cannot have the text selected regardless. John. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
btw. even if the Linux version of Foxit reader back from 2009 is not an option because of eventual security issues. There is a version of Foxit reader using the win32 api which works fine with wine. 2013/11/10 John Layt <johnlayt@googlemail.com>:
On 9 November 2013 11:26, Robert Klein <kleinrob@mpip-mainz.mpg.de> wrote:
You can use the mouse instead of CTRL-c and CTRL-v. Your issue is rather, okular is in "rectangle selection mode" instead of test selection mode. You can switch to text selection mode either by pressing the selection button in the upper right for at least a second and you get a list of selection modes to choose one (this _is_ a bit strange / unexpected / surprising) _OR_ press CTRL-4.
I don't know of a way to configure text selection mode as default, though.
With the default "Selection Tool" mode (ctrl-3) if I click-drag-release a rectangle around some text a pop-up appears that says:
Text (xx characters) - Copy to Clipboard - Search for > [with sub-menu for Google, etc] Image (xx by yy pixels) - Copy to Clipboard - Save to file...
You only need to change to Text Selection if you want the caret selection mode to highlight words that may not neatly fall in the selection rectangle. You can also choose Table Selection Mode for copying tables.
Remember also that some PDF's are only images of text so cannot have the text selected regardless.
John. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
##### Ain't gonna use Wine - Nidda, Zip, Zero, etc ##### On 11/10/2013 06:03 AM, Damian Ivanov wrote:
btw. even if the Linux version of Foxit reader back from 2009 is not an option because of eventual security issues. There is a version of Foxit reader using the win32 api which works fine with wine.
-- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ - Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding (314) 838-5587 / dahechler@att.net / www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com Home & Business user of Linux - 13 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
What part of openSUSE will not continue to provide non-free compromised software do you all not understand? If you are a corner case then install it yourself. It's time for this thread to die. Steven -- ____________ Apply appropriate technology. Use what works without prejudice. Steven L Hess ARS KC6KGE DM05gd22 openSUSE Linux 12.3 KDE Known as FlameBait and The Sock Puppet of Doom. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting John Layt <johnlayt@googlemail.com>:
On 9 November 2013 11:26, Robert Klein <kleinrob@mpip-mainz.mpg.de> wrote:
You can use the mouse instead of CTRL-c and CTRL-v. Your issue is rather, okular is in "rectangle selection mode" instead of test selection mode. You can switch to text selection mode either by pressing the selection button in the upper right for at least a second and you get a list of selection modes to choose one (this _is_ a bit strange / unexpected / surprising) _OR_ press CTRL-4.
I don't know of a way to configure text selection mode as default, though.
With the default "Selection Tool" mode (ctrl-3) if I click-drag-release a rectangle around some text a pop-up appears that says:
Text (xx characters) - Copy to Clipboard - Search for > [with sub-menu for Google, etc] Image (xx by yy pixels) - Copy to Clipboard - Save to file...
You only need to change to Text Selection if you want the caret selection mode to highlight words that may not neatly fall in the selection rectangle. You can also choose Table Selection Mode for copying tables.
Remember also that some PDF's are only images of text so cannot have the text selected regardless.
The important PDFs to me are statements from my investments. I copy and paste each month's numbers into a spreadsheet. Originally they were just images, but have been proper text documents for several years. I will try the various recommendations from this list. Thank y'all, Jeffrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 11/11/2013 04:27, Jeffrey L. Taylor a écrit :
The important PDFs to me are statements from my investments. I copy and paste
fench government provite dynamic pdf forms - Not running under other thing than acrobat reader. If I have to go to windows to use them, it's a pity jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 11/11/2013 04:27, Jeffrey L. Taylor a écrit :
The important PDFs to me are statements from my investments. I copy and paste
fench government provite dynamic pdf forms - Not running under other thing than acrobat reader. If I have to go to windows to use them, it's a pity
jdd
Well, the US Internal Revenue Service also supplies many key forms with Fill-in Fields, and I use Foxit on Windows. But I've tested these forms with Okular, and received a warning that the pdf contains XFA forms, which are not currently supported. Funny thing is, if you click the button to show the forms, the Fill-in Fields work perfectly, abd you can save the document with the filled in data intact. Go figure. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 11/11/2013 08:53, John Andersen a écrit :
But I've tested these forms with Okular, and received a warning that the pdf contains XFA forms, which are not currently supported. Funny thing is, if you click the button to show the forms, the Fill-in Fields work perfectly, abd you can save the document with the filled in data intact.
lucky you, my forms are not: "If this message is not eventually replaced by the proper contents of the document, your PDF viewer may not be able to display this type of document." jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Le 11/11/2013 04:27, Jeffrey L. Taylor a écrit :
The important PDFs to me are statements from my investments. I copy and paste
fench government provite dynamic pdf forms - Not running under other thing than acrobat reader. If I have to go to windows to use them, it's a pity
So what do they do for people who don't have Windows computers? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 11/11/2013 12:24, Dave Howorth a écrit :
So what do they do for people who don't have Windows computers?
you still can do with pencil and paper... jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Le 11/11/2013 12:24, Dave Howorth a écrit :
So what do they do for people who don't have Windows computers?
you still can do with pencil and paper...
That's alright then :) Actually, I suspect that the UK government would insist on ink rather than pencil ... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/11/13 12:24, Dave Howorth wrote:
jdd wrote:
Le 11/11/2013 04:27, Jeffrey L. Taylor a écrit :
The important PDFs to me are statements from my investments. I copy and paste
fench government provite dynamic pdf forms - Not running under other thing than acrobat reader. If I have to go to windows to use them, it's a pity
So what do they do for people who don't have Windows computers?
They conveniently ignore you and pretend they're right about everything. At least, this is my experience in France. I've already written to companies on a couple of occasions pointing out the errors of their ways, one for example providing a public service which, in 2012, is managed by a website that works only in IE, and on telephoning for help I've been specifically informed that I must use IE. When I've explained that I don't run Windows I've been advised to use a friend's computer or an Internet café, even though this is a site where I'll be required to input sensitive information and credit card details. I've politely worded formal letters addressed to the web development manager and never received any responses. It seems like a case of fingers in the ears denying reality. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Peter wrote:
On 11/11/13 12:24, Dave Howorth wrote:
jdd wrote:
Le 11/11/2013 04:27, Jeffrey L. Taylor a écrit :
The important PDFs to me are statements from my investments. I copy and paste
fench government provite dynamic pdf forms - Not running under other thing than acrobat reader. If I have to go to windows to use them, it's a pity
So what do they do for people who don't have Windows computers?
They conveniently ignore you and pretend they're right about everything.
At least, this is my experience in France. I've already written to companies
Right. It's annoying when companies do that, but that's their privilege. A government on the other hand can/should be held to higher standards. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-11 13:34, Dave Howorth wrote:
Peter wrote:
On 11/11/13 12:24, Dave Howorth wrote:
jdd wrote:
So what do they do for people who don't have Windows computers?
They conveniently ignore you and pretend they're right about everything.
At least, this is my experience in France. I've already written to companies
Right. It's annoying when companies do that, but that's their privilege. A government on the other hand can/should be held to higher standards.
Not really. Maybe you are lucky, yours listen to minorities, but those are few in the world. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [11-11-13 09:29]:
On 2013-11-11 13:34, Dave Howorth wrote:
Peter wrote:
On 11/11/13 12:24, Dave Howorth wrote:
jdd wrote:
So what do they do for people who don't have Windows computers?
They conveniently ignore you and pretend they're right about everything.
At least, this is my experience in France. I've already written to companies
Right. It's annoying when companies do that, but that's their privilege. A government on the other hand can/should be held to higher standards.
Not really. Maybe you are lucky, yours listen to minorities, but those are few in the world.
Ours, in fact, caters to minority interests! And belonging to a majority in actuality bestows a minority reality upon you. :^( -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth wrote:
Peter wrote:
On 11/11/13 12:24, Dave Howorth wrote:
jdd wrote:
Le 11/11/2013 04:27, Jeffrey L. Taylor a écrit :
The important PDFs to me are statements from my investments. I copy and paste
fench government provite dynamic pdf forms - Not running under other thing than acrobat reader. If I have to go to windows to use them, it's a pity
So what do they do for people who don't have Windows computers?
They conveniently ignore you and pretend they're right about everything.
At least, this is my experience in France. I've already written to companies
Right. It's annoying when companies do that, but that's their privilege. A government on the other hand can/should be held to higher standards.
Funny, isn't it usually the other way around because companies tend to value their customers, whereas I'm not so certain about governments valueing their citizens ? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (6.6°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/11/2013 3:24 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
jdd wrote:
Le 11/11/2013 04:27, Jeffrey L. Taylor a écrit :
The important PDFs to me are statements from my investments. I copy and paste
fench government provite dynamic pdf forms - Not running under other thing than acrobat reader. If I have to go to windows to use them, it's a pity
So what do they do for people who don't have Windows computers?
You can still print them out, you just can't fill them out on the computer. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:45 PM, Jeffrey L. Taylor <jeff@abluz.dyndns.org> wrote:
Quoting Per Jessen <per@computer.org>:
Duaine Hechler wrote:
On 11/08/2013 03:50 AM, John Layt wrote: Have I missed something ? What is supposed to happen with acroread ?
Adobe is dropping support for Linux, which means we/openSUSE has removed it from 13.1. I started the thread referred to, because I think we ought to keep acroread in, but marked as deprecated/unsupported.
BECAUSE - I refuse to use anything else !!!!!!!!!!!
The alternatives are not bad, but nor are they complete. Okular doesn't have a tabbed viewer for instance, but there are also key pdf features missing.
The key feature for me missing from Okular is being able to copy and paste text into other applications. I want to see a document with text, not an image of a document.
Jeffrey
It has supported this forever, so long as the document actually contains text. A document that is itself just an image will never be anything more than an image unless you run some sort of OCR on it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting Todd Rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com>:
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:45 PM, Jeffrey L. Taylor <jeff@abluz.dyndns.org> wrote:
Quoting Per Jessen <per@computer.org>:
Duaine Hechler wrote:
On 11/08/2013 03:50 AM, John Layt wrote: Have I missed something ? What is supposed to happen with acroread ?
Adobe is dropping support for Linux, which means we/openSUSE has removed it from 13.1. I started the thread referred to, because I think we ought to keep acroread in, but marked as deprecated/unsupported.
BECAUSE - I refuse to use anything else !!!!!!!!!!!
The alternatives are not bad, but nor are they complete. Okular doesn't have a tabbed viewer for instance, but there are also key pdf features missing.
The key feature for me missing from Okular is being able to copy and paste text into other applications. I want to see a document with text, not an image of a document.
Jeffrey
It has supported this forever, so long as the document actually contains text. A document that is itself just an image will never be anything more than an image unless you run some sort of OCR on it.
So other folks have informed me. And as I pointed out there, the PDFs in question have been text not images for years. I might question why image mode copy and paste is the default. I don't ever recall in the 15 years I have been using Linux and the 35+ years I have been using Unix to need image copy and paste on a routine basis. I'm not sure I've ever used between applications. The closest I can recall is drag and drop an image file icon into a word processor. Jeffrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Jeffrey L. Taylor <jeff@abluz.dyndns.org> [11-13-13 11:35]:
Quoting Todd Rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com>: [...]
It has supported this forever, so long as the document actually contains text. A document that is itself just an image will never be anything more than an image unless you run some sort of OCR on it.
So other folks have informed me. And as I pointed out there, the PDFs in question have been text not images for years. I might question why image mode copy and paste is the default.
where do you find "image" mode as *default*? My okular selects a boxed area and automagically offers to save text or graphics to clipboard or a file. okular-4.11.2-4.1.x86_64 openSUSE Tumbleweed -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org>:
* Jeffrey L. Taylor <jeff@abluz.dyndns.org> [11-13-13 11:35]:
Quoting Todd Rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com>: [...]
It has supported this forever, so long as the document actually contains text. A document that is itself just an image will never be anything more than an image unless you run some sort of OCR on it.
So other folks have informed me. And as I pointed out there, the PDFs in question have been text not images for years. I might question why image mode copy and paste is the default.
where do you find "image" mode as *default*? My okular selects a boxed area and automagically offers to save text or graphics to clipboard or a file.
okular-4.11.2-4.1.x86_64 openSUSE Tumbleweed
Mine does not offer the choice when I highlight with the left button and paste with the middle button. OpenSuSE 12.2 okular-4.8.5-2.4.1.x86_64 Jeffrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Jeffrey L. Taylor <jeff@abluz.dyndns.org> [11-13-13 16:30]:
Quoting Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org>:
* Jeffrey L. Taylor <jeff@abluz.dyndns.org> [11-13-13 11:35]:
Quoting Todd Rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com>: [...]
It has supported this forever, so long as the document actually contains text. A document that is itself just an image will never be anything more than an image unless you run some sort of OCR on it.
So other folks have informed me. And as I pointed out there, the PDFs in question have been text not images for years. I might question why image mode copy and paste is the default.
where do you find "image" mode as *default*? My okular selects a boxed area and automagically offers to save text or graphics to clipboard or a file.
okular-4.11.2-4.1.x86_64 openSUSE Tumbleweed
Mine does not offer the choice when I highlight with the left button and paste with the middle button.
OpenSuSE 12.2 okular-4.8.5-2.4.1.x86_64
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/GPhoto:/UNSTABLE/openSUSE_12.2/x86... maybe the *feature* was added >4.8.5 -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/08/2013 09:20 AM, Duaine Hechler wrote:
On 11/08/2013 03:50 AM, John Layt wrote:
On 7 November 2013 22:12, Hans Witvliet <suse@a-domani.nl> wrote:
So, for some simple pdf okular & Co are apparently good enough.
But as Carlos wrote, it isn't working for more complicated ones. Counting options.... A) Obviously keeping acroread forever isn't an option B) keeping it for now is just postponing the inevitable C) telling people, that if they want, they can install an ancient version of acroread is just as bad as A)
D) in the beginning of this thread, someone suggested running a recent version of acroread under wine. -> When doing such thing, doesn't that involve any security risks? <- -> What is the chance of providing this for the "default end-user" <- -> Would it be allowed (if even possible) to create such a nested&foreign package <-
E) Worst case scenario, having to install W7, just for viewing/filling PDF's
Any other options???? F) All the distros get together and fund a project to improve poppler to the point where it meets the required needs.
Seriously, this will be an issue for all distros, and waiting on volunteer developers to find enough time to solve the really hard problems involved will never get you there. It's a key problem that needs investment and at least one of the distros needs to step up and fund a solution. Same for printing.
John. Have I missed something ? What is supposed to happen with acroread ?
BECAUSE - I refuse to use anything else !!!!!!!!!!!
Duaine
I don't know what the issues are with Acroread but I use it all the time and find it far superior to Adobe. -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2013-11-08 at 09:33 -0600, Billie Walsh wrote:
I don't know what the issues are with Acroread but I use it all the time and find it far superior to Adobe.
Huh? acoread is from adobe. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ9GhoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XAtwCdEHXVuIHV2JTjx58HvKjaO6qV HeMAoJFY2VfpFnTf29dWL0WGRH2uoq6W =TZVc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 7 November 2013 22:12, Hans Witvliet <suse@a-domani.nl> wrote:
Any other options????
Running some windows version under Wine? Can't Wine run a fair number of programs these days? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2013-11-09 at 10:35 -0800, Linda Walsh wrote:
On 7 November 2013 22:12, Hans Witvliet <suse@a-domani.nl> wrote:
Any other options????
Running some windows version under Wine?
Can't Wine run a fair number of programs these days?
According to wineHQ, not: http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?appId=847 Last rated version was acrobat-9, which is too old -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Nov 09, 2013 at 10:35:59AM -0800, Linda Walsh wrote:
On 7 November 2013 22:12, Hans Witvliet <suse@a-domani.nl> wrote:
Any other options????
Running some windows version under Wine?
Can't Wine run a fair number of programs these days?
I tried it, it currently does not install. Can't say if it runs after installing. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 08 Nov 2013, John Layt wrote:
On 7 November 2013 22:12, Hans Witvliet <suse@a-domani.nl> wrote:
... B) keeping it for now is just postponing the inevitable .... Inconveniencing people now because it is inevitable that they will be inconvenienced later doesn't sound like a good policy. If a little effort can delay the pain for a while longer, then why not be helpful and do so? Or do we want to lose some users as soon as possible? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/09/2013 09:33 PM, Michael Hamilton pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
On Fri, 08 Nov 2013, John Layt wrote:
On 7 November 2013 22:12, Hans Witvliet <suse@a-domani.nl> wrote:
... B) keeping it for now is just postponing the inevitable .... Inconveniencing people now because it is inevitable that they will be inconvenienced later doesn't sound like a good policy. If a little effort can delay the pain for a while longer, then why not be helpful and do so? Or do we want to lose some users as soon as possible?
Why, because they will have to do what users of every other OS has to do, go to adobe.com and download it themselves? Have I enjoyed being able to install from non-oss repo, YES. Is it more of a hassle, YES. Is it a show stopper, NO. Get over it. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2013-11-10 at 15:33 +1300, Michael Hamilton wrote:
On Fri, 08 Nov 2013, John Layt wrote:
On 7 November 2013 22:12, Hans Witvliet <suse@a-domani.nl> wrote:
... B) keeping it for now is just postponing the inevitable .... Inconveniencing people now because it is inevitable that they will be inconvenienced later doesn't sound like a good policy. If a little effort can delay the pain for a while longer, then why not be helpful and do so? Or do we want to lose some users as soon as possible?
Hi Michael, Certainly not !! But i feel two different issue's (technical and non-technical should be distinguished. From a pure technical P.O.V., AR-9 is old, will not be maintained any longer, and could become a security issue. So it is perfectly understandable that "they" want to drop AR-9 as fast as possible. Chances that AR-10 or AR-11 will get a maintained linux version are ... slim <<<<<non-existent. Only real solution would be to get a alternative reader to perform as good as (or even better) as AR, with all required functionalities. Huge Job! From a NON-technical P.O.V., It would have been more community friendly if current A.R was flagged as "depreciated, on the way out". (perhaps it was, never noticed). Sure we all could have expected it: I mean after the arrival of AR10 and AR11 for windows, while no new versions for linux ever materialized. That should have been a clear warning of what to come. Seasoned users can blame nobody, certainly not the people in the project-team, only themselves. It's just a pity for people just migrated from windows towards linux. Just hope they don't need the fancy features that other readers currently lack. So, this teaches us to appreciate everything that _is_ in the distro/addon-repo's, and take nothing for granted. Hans -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/10/2013 5:40 AM, Hans Witvliet wrote:
On Sun, 2013-11-10 at 15:33 +1300, Michael Hamilton wrote:
On Fri, 08 Nov 2013, John Layt wrote:
On 7 November 2013 22:12, Hans Witvliet<suse@a-domani.nl> wrote:
... B) keeping it for now is just postponing the inevitable .... Inconveniencing people now because it is inevitable that they will be inconvenienced later doesn't sound like a good policy. If a little effort can delay the pain for a while longer, then why not be helpful and do so? Or do we want to lose some users as soon as possible?
Hi Michael, Certainly not !!
But i feel two different issue's (technical and non-technical should be distinguished.
From a pure technical P.O.V., AR-9 is old, will not be maintained any longer, and could become a security issue. So it is perfectly understandable that "they" want to drop AR-9 as fast as possible. Chances that AR-10 or AR-11 will get a maintained linux version are ... slim<<<<<non-existent. Only real solution would be to get a alternative reader to perform as good as (or even better) as AR, with all required functionalities. Huge Job!
From a NON-technical P.O.V., It would have been more community friendly if current A.R was flagged as "depreciated, on the way out". (perhaps it was, never noticed). Sure we all could have expected it: I mean after the arrival of AR10 and AR11 for windows, while no new versions for linux ever materialized. That should have been a clear warning of what to come.
Seasoned users can blame nobody, certainly not the people in the project-team, only themselves. It's just a pity for people just migrated from windows towards linux. Just hope they don't need the fancy features that other readers currently lack.
So, this teaches us to appreciate everything that _is_ in the distro/addon-repo's, and take nothing for granted.
Hans
I agree with this assessment. If we we str going yo loose acoread it is only a matter of time before we also lose AR, or it will be loaded with so much crapware features and zero-days that we won't be able to trust it. I think the best course is to NOT Drive users back into the arms of Adobe, but to recruit more resources to improve Okular to at least add the most popular features. OfficeLibre can provide the editing of preexisting PDFs, leaving Okular to focus on the traditional Viewer functions. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (27)
-
auxsvr＠gmail.com -
Billie Walsh -
Carlos E. R. -
Damian Ivanov -
Dave Howorth -
David Haller -
Doug -
Duaine Hechler -
Hans Witvliet -
Harrie Baken -
jdd -
Jeffrey L. Taylor -
John Andersen -
John Layt -
John M Andersen
-
Ken Schneider - openSUSE -
Linda Walsh -
Marcus Meissner -
Mark Goldstein -
Michael Hamilton -
Patrick Shanahan -
Per Jessen -
Peter -
Ricardo Chung -
Robert Klein -
Steven Hess -
Todd Rme