The Tuesday 2004-03-30 at 16:54 +0200, Martin Mielke wrote:

now that OO 1.1 and its "Export as PDF..." feature have been mentioned, I'd like to ask whether it's possible to lock/secure the PDF files created this way in terms of not allowing copy & paste of text and graphics and/or document printing, as the (original) Adobe Distiller does.

I think it is not posible, it is using gs internally, I guess. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

On 2004-03-31 21:34, BandiPat wrote:

If you are looking for the best PDF capable output, then you need to try Scribus. I suspect it is second only to Adobe in it's PDF quality. A new version 1.1.6 was just released and a SuSE version is located on the Packman site now.

|> Description : |> Scribus is a desktop page layout program in the tradition of Corel |> Ventura, Quark Xpress, Adobe Pagemaker, or InDesign. That's doesn't seem to indicate we can write long documents, does it? Page by page... :-? -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

The Wednesday 2004-03-31 at 23:18 -0500, BandiPat wrote:

...

|> Description : |> Scribus is a desktop page layout program in the tradition of Corel |> Ventura, Quark Xpress, Adobe Pagemaker, or InDesign.

That's doesn't seem to indicate we can write long documents, does it? Page by page... :-?

And why would it Carlos? Are you not familar with desktop publishing programs? If not, you really should take a look at this one!

No, I'm not familiar. I tried one years ago - ventura publishing? - and found no use for it. It could not be used to edit long documents, did not generate indexes, TOCs, chapters, apendixes, glosary, etc, so I used WP instead. The only use of it I have seen is for generating news paper pages, where articles from different sources had to be placed on the news sheet. That's what I thought at the time... if I'm mistaken, then tell me why I should use it instead of, say, OO or LyX. Sell it to me :-) -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

On Thursday 01 April 2004 06:09 am, John Pettigrew wrote:

In a previous message, "Carlos E. R." wrote:

...

tell me why I should use it instead of, say, OO or LyX. Sell it to me :-)

If you've never noticed the shortcomings of OOo or similar apps then you don't need it.

The advantage of proper page-layout apps is the total control they give you over exactly where and how the text and graphics are displayed on the page. The best also excel as content-creation apps but some are really only for laying out pre-existing content (as you mentioned). Unfortunately, Scribus is nowhere near the required standard yet - it's getting there but is a long way off, with many crucial features completely absent.

The best page-layout software I've seen for linux is Pagestream, which is very capable if a little idiosyncratic. Unfortunately, it's commercial (although there's a good demo available).

John ==============

Sounds like you have not used a recent version of Scribus, John, as Scribus is very good and much closer to the standard than PageStream on Linux presently. I've used both or used Scribus and tried to use PageStream, I should say. PgS can't match the PDF output of Scribus, plus many other features. The developer of PgS doesn't have the Linux knowledge the Scribus guys do and it shows in the present state of PgS. That's sad too, because on the Amiga computer PgS was a top desktop publishing contender with anything out there, but on Linux it's not even in the game yet. I used PgS extensively on the Amiga computer, but it's sadly disappointing for Linux and hardly worth $149 in it's present state. For Carlos, you need to catch up with the times. Scribus provides you with a simple, clean interface for page layout with many features, including SVG support, color separation & PDF output to take to commercial offset printing companies. As John points out, the control it gives the user in putting together everything from a single page to a book or PDF presentation is unmatched and Scribus gives you that, right now! It's worth a look, if you need or do much of this type of work. Many have been waiting for a good DTP program for Linux to yet have another excuse to break from those other operating systems and Scribus gives you that. ;o) Lee -- --- KMail v1.6.1 --- SuSE Linux Pro v9.0 --- Registered Linux User #225206 On any other day, that might seem strange...

On Thursday 01 April 2004 08:31 am, John Pettigrew wrote:

In a previous message, BandiPat wrote:

...

Sounds like you have not used a recent version of Scribus, John, as Scribus is very good and much closer to the standard than PageStream on Linux presently.

I've just revisited it (1.1.5 is the latest I could find as an RPM for SUSE 8.2) and it's much better than when I'd last looked at it. However, it's still got a few fairly important problems - absence of Undo when editing text, for example, and poor cursor behaviour. Its major problem, though, is the same as before: it's slow. I guess that this is because it's written in Python.

I'm not a huge Pagestream fan, either. It's just that it was the most capable layout app I'd come across for linux.

John ===========

PageStream is barely even usable right now, so how can it possibly be the most capable? Don't get me wrong, I like PgS, but it is in a very disappointing condition for Linux. The single developer of PgS was quite reluctant to move the program to Linux and it shows in the condition of the program and his enthusiasm to make is as nice as it was on the Amiga computer. Sounds like you just don't know your way around Scribus. It's no longer written in Python, but was originally, about 3+ years ago! The only part that is Python now is the scripting, maybe that is what you are thinking about? They have moved all of the code over to C++ to work much better in QT. The last slow version I saw was back about 0.98, so I'm not sure what you are seeing on your machine. I haven't seen anyone complain about slowness on the Scribus mail list for quite some time and there is a variety of Linux distros represented there. Part of your problem could be from an older QT or KDE or both. You might try compiling your own for your system. Cursor problems were there, but are gone now, again this might be a QT problem on your system. The text could also be a QT problem and the Story Editor (builtin text editor) is probably what you are not finding for text also, with the undo, you mention is missing. Just sounds like your lack of knowledge of the program and older system for the most part. Another good reason to update your SuSE! :o) If you have questions about using it, by all means, join the email list or drop by the IRC channel for further clarification or to increase your knowledge of the program. (irc.freenode.net, #scribus) Lee -- --- KMail v1.6.1 --- SuSE Linux Pro v9.0 --- Registered Linux User #225206 On any other day, that might seem strange...

On Thursday 01 April 2004 11:23 am, John Pettigrew wrote: [...]

Not cursor problems of that sort - it just doesn't behave in a standard fashion (e.g. Shift-cursors don't extend/reduce the selection, cursor position and selection position seem to be independent [select text, move cursor with arrow keys and then type something - you replace the selection rather than inserting text at the cursor]). This is running the Scribus 1.1.5 from Packman, so it ought to be a good build.

Also, the text positioning seems to be poor here (running within Gnome or KDE) - the cursor isn't positioned correctly WRT character positions, and text overlaps objects lying on top of the frame instead of wrapping round it properly. ============ Sounds like you are looking for wordprocessing functions in a page layout program. They are not the same and shouldn't be mistaken for such. I mentioned the slowness you spoke of to the developers and they ask me if you were still using a 486 type PC! ;o)

If you are experiencing the amount of drag in the program you seem to be, I suspect there are some things not quite right in your system. Really, Scribus is not exhibiting that on my system or others on the list & IRC. Most were fairly amazed when I brought it up today. ---------------

Oh, and the other thing I couldn't find was wrap control (setting the offset for wrapping round objects and also the wrap method [one side/both sides/neither side etc.]). Have I missed this somewhere?

Basically, it is heading in the right direction but isn't anywhere near professional standard yet. =============

It's there, wrap around a graphic or other object, offset spacing, etc. It's just you don't know the program well enough to fully use it yet. And as far as professional standard, I think many of the professionals on the mail list using the program might disagree. The developers themselves are printers, page layout guys, so they have an idea what it will do with daily testing. Plus many on the list are school systems converting to it and many are past Quark, Pagemaker, PageStream, & Indesign users for many years, that are using it daily now. I think that might qualify it for "professional" use & quality. YMMV, of course, since you are not a daily user or layout person by trade. --------------------

...

The text could also be a QT problem and the Story Editor (builtin text editor) is probably what you are not finding for text

I've tried that (hate it, BTW - in-place editing is far nicer) and you lose any undo history when leaving the story editor and returning to the main document. ==========

I'll be honest, coming from using PageStream and Pagemaker, I was determined to not like Scribus either when first using/viewing it! I thought the direct typing on the page (in-place editing) was much nicer also, but upon using it a couple of months, I find Scribus much better to work with now and no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't dislike it! It reminds me of Ventura Publisher from the older IBM days & Professional Page & City Desk, also from the Amiga. Stick with it, it'll grow on you too and stop by the IRC for any questions or help. ------------- [...]

I may do now that it seems to be approaching usability for me - next time I need to do some layout and have spare time for playing, I'll try Scribus instead of using a different (non-MS) OS...

John ============

Please do, all the professionals there are quite nice and very helpful. Of course, anytime you can make a dent in the Redmond robot's armour, it's a good thing. ;o) Lee -- --- KMail v1.6.1 --- SuSE Linux Pro v9.0 --- Registered Linux User #225206 On any other day, that might seem strange...

The Thursday 2004-04-01 at 07:43 -0500, BandiPat wrote:

For Carlos, you need to catch up with the times. Scribus provides you with a simple, clean interface for page layout with many features, including SVG support, color separation & PDF output to take to commercial offset printing companies. As John points out, the control it gives the user in putting together everything from a single page to a book or PDF presentation is unmatched and Scribus gives you that, right now! It's worth a look, if you need or do much of this type of work. Many have been waiting for a good DTP program for Linux to yet have another excuse to break from those other operating systems and Scribus gives you that. ;o)

But you see, when I write a document I do not want to bother with fine setting every page. I just want to use a predefined style (or create my own), chose the type of paragraph from a list, and let the program bother about producing good output without bothering me. Now and then, I might want to fine tune the results - but what I do, usually, is adjust the style definition, not even the document. There are uses for desktop publishing programs, but I haven't found them; scribus is probably a good program - but not for me, that is. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

The Thursday 2004-04-01 at 16:45 -0500, BandiPat wrote:

Then it sounds as if you are a perfect candidate for Scribus!

Huh?

Make yourself a template or use one someone else has contributed. Set & use styles to suit yourself and then all you have to do is drop the text on the page!

Paragraph styles? Create a TOC or an Index of Appearances automatically from the text content? Have a document style covering everything needed to create a readily formated report? That's not what a page layout program does. The few times I used one I had first to create my text with something, then drop it on the page layout program.

And envelopes! Oh boy, I like Scribus for that!

That is something I'll try, yes. Envelopes are usually a pain, cups insist on turning them around 90 degrees and are impossible to print. I have to tell programs to use A4 size with a huge bottom margin (like 12 cm). But that is a problem with CUPS, I think. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

Carlos E. R. wrote:

That is something I'll try, yes. Envelopes are usually a pain, cups insist on turning them around 90 degrees and are impossible to print. I have to tell programs to use A4 size with a huge bottom margin (like 12 cm).

But that is a problem with CUPS, I think.

I don't have a problem printing envelopes. I just feed them through side first and they print fine.

The Thursday 2004-04-01 at 13:15 +0200, Togan Muftuoglu wrote:

...

That's what I thought at the time... if I'm mistaken, then tell me why I should use it instead of, say, OO or LyX. Sell it to me :-)

Think in XML forget the rest even Oreilly is using XML and XSL to produce books

I prefer LyX :-p What about the original question, having the sort of control over the pdf that Distiller allows? A ToC (left hand side) is possible, I know. How about hyperlinks, for example? Clicking somewhere in the pdf and opening another pdf or jumping to another place: very nice for tocs and glosaries. O password protection, or disallowing text select... whatever. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:54, Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Thursday 2004-04-01 at 13:15 +0200, Togan Muftuoglu wrote:

...

...

That's what I thought at the time... if I'm mistaken, then tell me why I should use it instead of, say, OO or LyX. Sell it to me :-)

Think in XML forget the rest even Oreilly is using XML and XSL to produce books

I prefer LyX :-p

What about the original question, having the sort of control over the pdf that Distiller allows? A ToC (left hand side) is possible, I know. How about hyperlinks, for example? Clicking somewhere in the pdf and opening another pdf or jumping to another place: very nice for tocs and glosaries.

O password protection, or disallowing text select... whatever.

-- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

Carlos, I suggest you have a look at this article on Scribus and the links at the bottom of the page. Introducing Scribus http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7054 -- Regards, Graham Smith ---------------------------------------------------------