...

Okay, they won't get the manuals, but to be honest, I've never used them and wouldn't mind too much if they were available for download as a PDF or something as well.

They are available for download as PDFs.

Links are always nice when making a statement like that. Where are the latest manuals - I just got another update through, and need to spend the time playing with that <g> -- Lester Caine ----------------------------- L.S.Caine Electronic Services

* steve [05-05-02 08:36]:

Thanks to Pep for backing me up on this and for the amazon.com suggestion. The technical side of SuSE is wonderful, but anything to do with dealing with human beings, marketing the product, selling it and listening to what their clients want is sadly lacking. To miss the oportunity of supplying a group with the clout of CERN is totalmente lamentable (English: hopeless?). We are nowhere near the CERN level down here but we are in education and have the opportunity of showing our students differing operating systems. Our future doctors, dentists and marketing agents maybe. We want to keep up with the latest releases. What SuSE need is to get someone who understands marketing. Not another computer programmer. Cheers to everyone from rainy Alicante. Steve.

Brings to mind another very large DROPPED ball by Big Blue (IBM). Think the name was OS/2 (a superior offering with NO MARKET SUPPORT). -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 Registered at: http://counter.li.org

At 11:33 AM 5/5/02 -0500, SuSEnixER wrote:

...

Thanks to Pep for backing me up on this and for the amazon.com suggestion. The technical side of SuSE is wonderful, but anything to do with dealing with human beings, marketing the product, selling it and listening to what

* steve [05-05-02 08:36]: their

...

clients want is sadly lacking. To miss the oportunity of supplying a group with the clout of CERN is totalmente lamentable (English: hopeless?). We are nowhere near the CERN level down here but we are in education and have the opportunity of showing our students differing operating systems. Our future doctors, dentists and marketing agents maybe. We want to keep up with the latest releases. What SuSE need is to get someone who understands marketing. Not another computer programmer. Cheers to everyone from rainy Alicante. Steve.

Brings to mind another very large DROPPED ball by Big Blue (IBM). Think the name was OS/2 (a superior offering with NO MARKET SUPPORT).

OH, OS/2 is still out there and well used by a small group of specialists. It's problem was IBM's Lack (read none) of marketing when Version 3 came out (their marketing division thought DB2 's new version worth concentrating on instead) as it only had a small userbase. scsijon

-- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 Registered at: http://counter.li.org

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 . (OUUCH) Although this is exceedingly regrettable (ouch again), I prefer that Suse put their (now terribly) limited resources in the technical side. I understand the need of large organizations for big-time support, but we are all intelligent people here. We all looked at Suse because we can appreciate a good distro. You guys have a good point about cancellation of subscriptions. But I think about that time there was a major layoff at Suse. I don't know how they got 8 out at all. But they are healthier than Mandrake, and Caldera. And you have a good point about intra-Euro shipping. To me though, what matters is the order the bits and bytes are in, rather than whether I can get an answer right away. I can eventually figure out or get around most problems. I've tried RedHat twice in history, and each time the conclusion was it is 'half-baked'. Doesn't have all its marbles. I spend 80% of my time tracking down problems that turned out to be BUGS, and configuring, rather than producing. Technical merit trumps marketing merit. I could have waited another two weeks for 8. On Sunday 05 May 2002 07:39, Pep Serrano wrote:

Hello list and feedback team,

To begin, let tell you SuSE is the best Linux distro I know. I also had the subscription steve is talking about. And that's exactly what happend: cancelled with no notice :-( Well done!

You know... without starting any great discussions... Here in Switzerland is much more easy to find RedHat just one week after a new release than getting SuSE. I am still waiting for my 8.0. pro update... Of curse I downloaded... But I am so naive that I wanted to buy my copy and contribute :-)

You can think this is just about little customers... never mind... Well, I am maintaining a set of Linux servers in the control room of the CERN. They are running RedHat (the house recommendation). Depite of the recommendations, once I tried to push to change to SuSE... It was with the 7.3 release... and it took so long to arrive (I mean the update that never arrived) that I was no longer to push for a distro with such a bad support: Lenz Grimmer (I know there are some people working hard) answer my emails three weeks after my first query to the marketing people... Now I am not going to push to change to SuSE anymore just because the experience I had gives me a feeling of what kind of support problems we may have...

Conclusion... once there was a chance to introduce SuSE at CERN through a person pushing for it (me). Now its gone because of a lack of service. A good product must also have a good service to be complete.... Get the example from the dark side... MS they don't have really the best OS but... realize they have real good business people.

Behind every small customer... behind the techies in this list... I am sure there are lots of corporations and large companies... SuSE marketing people is losing this point :-) It may be me... it may be steve... it my be anyone in this list...

Pep Serrano.

On Sunday 05 May 2002 13:54, steve wrote:

...

None of your online sellers in Spain can supply us with SuSE 8.0 Professional with English manuals. They suggest Red Hat or Mandrake instead. I do not wish to name any of them for I do not wish to proportion blame but I really do think that the marketing and distribution arm of SuSE needs looking into now that the once excellent service of suse.de will not ship to Spain. For example, I used to have a subscrition account with you. What happened to that? At least have the courtesy to tell me that it has been cancelled. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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